I know, I know, but I have to vent. my daughter is a devout christian and is mad at me because I watch certain tv programs and I said my grandson needed more displine, bla, bla, bla...anyhow its been 2 months, no calls, she won't answer my calls or e mails, and today is her birthday. I tryed to call but she is probably montering the calls and she won't talk to me. today she is 28. I am depressed because she has been mad for so very long and it seems there is no end in sight, how long can she be mad? how long will she hold a grudge? will this just go on forever???
I can really identify with what you wrote because of personal experience. A number of parents seem to have suffered the same thing. For me, the details are different but the pain is the same. About six or seven years ago, my younger daughter who is now age 31 just turned against me and claimed I abused her. This was never the case and I have three other adult children who confirm it. However, it isn't the truth she cares about, it's about hurting and blaming me. Things are so much easier when there is someone to blame.
Years ago when I spoke to my therapist about my daughter's behavior, she told me it
might take a few years for her to "work things out" but my daughter has told me she wants nothing to do with me and for over six years she has kept distancing herself from me. It must be extremely hurtful and confusing for you,particularly when it also involves your grandson.
We are not devout christians but hopefully your daughter is talking to someone in her religious community. As for how long this will go on - I don't know. She could call you tomorrow or she might never call you. As difficult as this is to hear and to write,
we have absolutely no control over what our adult children decide to do if they want us out of their lives. It's so very, very difficult to write this (I'm actually crying as I write) but we mothers have to grieve and eventually try to get on with our own lives. Maybe I'm painting too dark a picture here - I really hope I am and that your daughter will be
open to communicating with you again. If you weren't a good and caring parent, you would not be hurting and posting a message here.
Also, it is quite possible the problem is hers, not yours. THAT idea takes a lot of getting used to in a society that tends to blame mothers for any shortcomings their children might have.
I'll be thinking about you and praying for you. Since we are Métis (Native) if you don't object I will also smudge for you and your daughter.
Our DIL has taken all of our son's relatives out of her life; I suspect forever. Luckily, our son and grandchildren still see us and other relatives - although not as often as we wish. Our DIL believes we did some things we did not do (never even thought of) or perhaps, she just doesn't want us in her life. I'm wondering if the same problem exists with your child. By the way, our DIL has a lot of mental health issues - frankly, I feel she suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder and I'm wondering if that is the problem in the above two situations. Becoming a "devout" Christian suddenly can be one of the "signs" of mental health issues. Did you feel as if you are "walking on eggshells" when around her? Do your children always have excuses or others to blame for even the smallest incident? Do they see things as either black or white and not the in-between? Are people either good or bad and do they change friends frequently? These are all red flags for mental health issues. By the way, if your child has a mental health disorder, do keep in mind that logical reasoning will never work as one "cannot reason with an illogical mind".
I have to work today, but taking a break, read your post. I can remember being on a cliff in the middle of the night, drunk as a skunk, screaming into the crashing surf below, screaming with all my might, screaming and crying and literally tearing my hair out, HAMMERING the rocks until the blood flowed. because my little girl, the apple of my eye, turned against me. She had met a Fine Young Christian Boy whose parents were Devout and Assured of Their Place At The Side Of Jesus, and they sure didn't tolerate evil people like my wife and I who lived by and taught our children silly, senseless things like "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" instead of really GOOD, holy things like "give the church ten percent and it will come back to you threefold" and going to church and cramming a religion down a child's throats in my silly, silly reasoning that if God wants to touch my little girl He has the power to do that with or without me.. I insulted those folks with my unreasonable insistence that God might love her even if she gave her money to Animal Aid instead of to a Holy Man. So they took my child, and brought her to their way of thinking, and that evil old Papa she used to call her best friend, no way she was going to follow him into hell. Well, we were at that point some 1100 miles away from her in distance and a seemingly infinite distance from her in perception.
Things happened, so many things, and I won't bore you with them. But today my dear cherished daughter is the apple of my eye, doing good work against the war and to protect innocent animals, and today I'm Papa again and she casts no stones against the devout, but forgives them. And if I go over to her house her eyes light up. "PAPA!" She no longer really needs me, as is good and proper for someone in their thirties, she has a wonderful "disturbed veteran" to lean on, just as he leans on her. But they've always got time, room and love for Papa.
I'm not smart, like folks here are, but I've experience, and in my experience, your little girl will come home. That's I really have the qualifications to say.
Wow, reading all of this makes me so sad. This isn't what I'd call being a devout Christian. It's legalism, plain and simple. I'm a Christian and it's supposed to be a faith of grace, love and forgiveness. Have they forgotten Jesus' words? We are no longer living in the Old Testament under the law. Jesus came to give us freedom. We are living in grace now.
Make sure sure she hasn't hooked up with a cult. There are so many dangerous ones out there. They start off looking good but if they're claiming all the glory instead of giving it to God then they're not true followers. It spefically says in the Bible that we are to take care of our families first and then others. He also said he likes a cheerful giver, not one giving out of compulsion.
Jesus was very concerned about the poor and spoke more about them then any other subject. The scary thing is many people will come to the gates of Heaven and Jesus will tell them He never knew them because even though they did everything "right", their hearts weren't right with God. Jesus asked them when did they feed and clothe the poor and visit the prisoner in prison? He did not ask when did they give their 10%, etc. Yes, all those things are good, but ultimately God is more interested in our hearts and our willingness to reach out to others.
Hope this helps. I can imagine how painful this must be for you. I'll pray that God will soften your daughter's heart towards you again. Don't give up hope. I believe she'll come around. Take care & God bless.
e mailed her back and forth several times today and she is standing firm, quoting many scriptures quoted here to me. she does NOT want to "debate" with me any more she said. I said, "even if we are fighting, do not let it touch the kids, please let them call me" she said, they don't want to talk to me. This is painfull because we have always been VERY close. No, I do not believe she is in a cult, she is in a very good church, although it is a strict church and she has attended a lot of classes and was told to expect to be called "self-rightous". I am a christian, I do no harm to those kids. One told me that they don't get lunch and actually preferd school days because then she gets lunch. now, as thier grandma, what can I do? I ask the mom about it and she gets pissed because I would even THINK she isn't feeding them. If anything, I think maybe being a single mom is taking its toll and she needs some help. I didn't know what else to do, so I have requested a counselling appointment with HER pastor. I honestly believe she is just takeing me all wrong. EVERYTHING I have said to her, is said in love and because I want the best for all of them, I have no hatefull thoughts. BUT...as someone above said, maybe she just wants me out of her life............if so, then how does "live at peace with everyone" and "honor thy parents" and "don't cause separation" how does she justify all these scriptures??? o well, I can't do much else anymore.
You may be confusing my message a little with that of cat9841. She just said her daughter was Christian, she didn't say that her daughter's religion was the cause of their temporary estrangement. That was my daughter, but she's back from Oprah land now, living in reality and no longer living other people's lies. I've got some Jehovah's Witnesses coming by tomorrow to philosophize with a bit, they're interesting people. Those others weren't a cult, it was just a family whose religious zeal crossed the border into insanity (in my opinion). I'm not a Christian, but do have a great deal of respect for real ones, as you obviously are. For those others, well, "forgive them, they know not what they do" would seem to be just the ticket.
Denying you your grandkids is a crime. If there is a God, He has nothing to do with it. If I were you, I wouldn't accept this, not at all. I see now that April2's message was to you, not to me, the reference to 10% and all fooled me. But anyway, I still have to put my cent in (not two cents, I get a senior discount). Other folks can give you better specific advice, I'm sure, but my own experience suggests you just keep loving her until she submits, and try not to let it cut you too deeply. When you torture yourself about it you're doing the same as I was doing, hammering at the rocks until my blood was all over them. It didn't help. Only time and persistence helped.
Well, I did think of both of you but I'm real glad your daughter came around el_dave. You sound very wise, dave. Unfortunately, we tend to gain our wisdom through pain and trials. You are correct in that this is not God's fault. He has given us all free will. We live in a fallen world and we always have to make the decisions to chose to do the right thing or the wrong thing. Many times we are decieved into thinking the wrong thing is in fact the right thing. This is when we have to pray and seek God to show us the right way. Even though God doesn't cause the evil or pain in our lives, He will turn it around and use it for good. It's through our trials and burdens that we learn so much, like compassion, wisdom, patience, love, etc. If we never experienced pain or sadness then we would be selfish and self-centered, not needing God or anyone, not caring about others. Does that make sense?
You are also correct in telling cat9841 that the best thing she can do is love her daughter and not beat herself up. As a Christian, we call it letting go and giving it to God. We give Him our burdens because we can't really bear them anyway, and in return He promises His peace. His peace is not the same as what the world would give us. He doesn't necessarily take away our trials but He promises to be there with us when we go through them and to give us the strength to make it through it. His peace surpasses all understanding because the world doesn't understand how we could have peace when we have prodigal children, or a spouse dies, or our house burns down. We have peace because we know He will take care of us and will bring good out of all of this. When a believer gets to this point, it shows he totally trusts God and God promises to honor that.
I've gone through a very dark time the last two years and I wouldn't want to go through it again, believe me! But God taught me so much. Whenever it got so dark that I didn't think I could go on, He always provided just enough light to give me hope again. One book that really helped me was "As Silver Refined" by Kay Arthur. It helped me so much to see that God would use my trials to make me a better person, to refine me. I don't know what I would do without my faith. I don't know if I would have made it. The stress I have been under the last few years was tremendous and I wasn't always so good about giving it to God. I kept wanting to be in control. I'd finally give it to God when I realized that I wasn't really in control at all and I only made it worse.
Its a journey, this walk of faith. If anyone tells you they've made it and they've got it all together, they're liars. We all sin and fall away from God but He's gracious enough to accept us back time and time again.
One of my favorite scriptures is about the prodigal son. Cat9841, read that again. Think about your daughter when you read that. She may have walked away from you for awhile, but a mom's prayers can be powerful. Keep praying that God will open her eyes to the truth. Trust Him. I know it's not easy, but God is faithful. It may take awhile and He does have to work with our free will, but He can bring your daughter around. In the meantime, concentrate on your own faith. Don't worry about your daughter. God is in control. And He can give you that peace and strength and grace to carry on.
I do understand! Our children can bring us our greatest joy and also our greatest pain. Cling to the Lord and keep praying and believing. I'll keep you and your daughter in my prayers too. Peace and blessings to you.
If I had a million bucks, I'd gladly give it to you for that faith. And you know I'd be getting by far the best of the bargain. There will be a couple of Witnesses here tomorrow, we'll sit in the living room and they'll explain things I want to know about the bible, but they know I have no faith and will still have no faith when they leave. They don't care, they're going to spend time because they believe in miracles, and I'm going to spend the time because I wouldn't mind a miracle either, and though of course none will take place, they're very interesting people to talk to. Besides, faith is beautiful.
Yup, pain and trials have brought me some wisdom. Not a whole lot, but some. What I'd like to have had is the wisdom to listen to folks who had already made the same mistakes I've made throughout life. So here I be, all full of hard won wisdoms that younger folks are as unlikely to listen to as I was. But we have to try. Nowadays, watching the new Vietnam, I realize that it's a human tendency to reject lessons the past should have taught us. Seeing things like that, I envy you your faith very much.
I find it so interesting, though, that you, a person of faith, says "we always have to make the decisions to chose to do the right thing or the wrong thing" and I, who have no faith, have said for so long that "there's a 50/50 chance that God exists, and it's each person's choice to try to live as though there were a God or not". In the same way, so much of what you say I believe, I simply say in very different words.
You religious folks have a real battle to fight because of the sort of people that temporarily 'converted' my daughter. Some folks haven't been beat up badly enough to become forgiving, and only by exposure to your sort of faith will they have any trust in Christians again. To consider the concept of a daughter turning against her mother while 'quoting scriptures' sure does bring back some terrible memories, but the fact that it all worked out in the end even for us non-believers lends credence to he thought that CAT's daughter will come home (I'm sure you know what I mean by 'come home'). So I'll join you by hoping (because hope is really nothing more than a prayer that doesn't adress God directly, if He exists) for the best.
You've got a good point that a lot of young people don't want to listen to us older, wiser folks, lol. That's the way it is sometimes. People have to learn the hard way. I know that's how my daughter's been. She's very head strong and stubborn. I keep reminding myself that it's the strong willed people who make the best leaders, because she's sure given me some gray hairs!
I'll probably get ragged on here for saying this but be careful talking to the Witnesses. I know they'd disagree but I consider them to be a cult. They twist a lot of Bible scriptures to fit their beliefs and they have some strange beliefs. If I didn't know the Bible well enough I'd fall for a lot of what they say but I actually have a little fun debating with them! A lot of what they believe simply does not line up with the Bible and I challenge them on it. Yes, they quote scriptures but then they take things out of text and then add onto things. Just be careful and take everything with a grain of salt.
Thank you for what you said about my faith. It's interesting. I've often prayed that God would give me more faith. I feel guilty sometimes when I get too busy to spend time with God or read the Word but then I remind myself that's legalism and God really just wants a relationship with me. It helps that we have a great pastor. He's a very humble man who really knows the Word. Yes, unfortunately there are a lot of people who give Christianity a bad name and are actually turning people away from God and the church and I think that must grieve the Lord terribly how terrible His people are acting. He told us how we're to act. It's up to us to listen and obey.
You sound like you'd be an interesting person to talk to. You sound like you have had quite a life. I'd love to talk more if you want. You can send me a pm or something any time you'd like to talk. I'll be here! I've been on the site for about a year now? Wow, I just realized how long it's been, lol. Well, take care. And you can always tell me to shut up if I'm talking about God too much! :) guess I can't help it. I just love Him so much, I love to talk about Him, lol! :D God bless!
thanks to both of you for your caring and support. my daughter says I am trying to get to involved with her life, she dosen't want me close at all. she says, "back off" so I guess that is all I can do. I am REALLY gonna back off as we are planning a move to WA from CA in a few months. it really hurts me alot because I want us to be close and it seems both of us are christians, we should be close, but she'd rather I not be around her and "in her business" as she puts it. I am NOT in her business at all but any mention of anything brings out the ugly in her. so I have dicided NOT to go any farther with this and I am just going to leave it alone, no e mails at all and I am going to "give it to God" and leave her alone. Maybe God is trying to teach ME something too. I have just had a big surgery, I have been through hell and back, she should be here for me, but she isn't, so I have to get on with my own healing and my own life, don't I? well I wish I had a daughter that loved me, that was here for me and I wish she would be my best friend, that is all I really want.
I'm so far from being a dangerous man it's not even funny. If a guy came up and knocked me down I'd just feel sorry for him for having to bear all that agression (sp?) (tell ya what, I'll stop worrying about sp). Yet I've been broken down in Harlem at 0200 and I've walked through the La Perla district of San Juan without a police escort, and came out the other side unscathed. Why? Because appearances are so deceiving. I'm not a big, mean looking fellow at all, but I do walk with a confidence that suggests I might not be easily victimized. It's sort of the same with the Witnesses, just not in the same direction. Although I've told them directly that if their desire is to help me find faith they're probably wasting their time, but to them I still appear to be a "seeker". As I said, I'll have no faith when they arrive, I'll have no faith when they leave. Unlike you, I have no faith in scripture. What I'm interested in is their interpretations, and how those interpretations relate to whatever it is that has them out here pounding the pavement, rain or shine, hot or cold, regardless of their own personal state at the moment, doing what they consider to be good work. I believed, and still believe, that the bible was written by politicians for political reasons, just like all the other books that millions or even billions trust for guidance. Remember, there didn't used to be television to control the masses with. To control a man with soldiers is expensive. To control a man with ideas is a lot cheaper, and gets the man into a state where he is willingly cooperating with the controller. It's not that I disbelieve in the possibility of God, I just don't believe He'd use a book to convey His commands, instructions, plans, etceteras. And I freely admit the very real possibility that I may be completely wrong. They think they're coming to discuss the bible, and in a sense they are, but what we'll really be doing is "philosophizing", much like a group of hippies out under she stars might do, but minus the weed.
The only way they're going to get me to accept a twisted (or an untwisted) interpretation of the scriptures is if Jesus drops in with them, and I don't mean in spirit.
Jeez, got pain today. Small of the back, running down the legs, up the back, to the chest, BAD, too. Must have twisted something yesterday when I finished mowing. It hurts more, for some reason, sitting down. Oh, well, be a man and other yaddas, right?
This paragraph is being written five hours after the paragraph above. Had my fun meeting with the Witnesses, it was very interesting. I mentioned that I'd been warned that they twist scripture, their reply is "Same to you!" (not in those words, but that's what they meant). Just came from my Sweetling's house, so naturally I'm in a bit of a daze, when in the presence of a true Angel the world gets a little hazy and takes on a dream-like quality. I'm still tingling from the vibrations, my soul resonates with her smile. Wowee!
Is it possible to talk about God too much? If He exists, then what else is there? And The Lord commanded unto El Dave: I sent thee thy Sweetling for a purpose". Okay, I get the idea! And on the marital front, my Ol' Lady is trying to buy us a bigger bike. Water cooled, 1500cc, can do Orlando and back every weekend without self destructing. That would let me take her to see Uncle Pedro, who has Parkinson's, a LOT before it claims him (the time is drawing near). Is it wrong to pray for a motorcycle?
Tell ya what, I may take you up on that PM business, especially if it ever feels like that depression is coming back. I still don't have much of a handle on what caused it, but I do believe that you folks right here are what ran it off. Thank you!
Cat, I can feel your pain coming through here and I'm so sorry. My heart really goes out to you. Like I said earlier, I know our kids can bring us our greatest joy but also our greatest grief. They know how to hurt us like no other. I think especially mothers and daughters can really clash, you know? You didn't say how old she is, but I do know that when I was in my twenties I was pretty selfish and self-centered. I also thought I hated my mom. She was too controling. Well, she kinda is but I've learned to forgive a lot and overlook a lot. It wasn't until I found the Lord, when I was in my late twenties that I started seeing how many things I needed to change in my own life. I'm not saying I'm all there yet (who is??) but I know God is still working on me. Sometimes my mom and I still clash. I tend to be rather sensitive when it comes to my kids. So anything I take as criticism, I'll bristle. So try really hard to watch what you say about her kids or her parenting style. I know you love your daughter and you love your grandkids, and I know it's breaking your heart how she's acting. Just keep praying and giving it to the Lord. Pray that God will soften her heart and open her eyes to seeing the truth. Keep praying that every day. He is faithful. I believe she will come around. But we just don't know when so don't give up! My mom said it took my dad 13 years to accept the Lord after she did. She didn't accept the Lord until us kids were teenagers and we just thought she went off the deep end and became a religious fanatic. All three of us kids rebelled big time because my mom had a hard time letting go and giving up that control. I try to remember that with my own kids. It's so hard! I mean, it feels safer to feel like we have some control, you know? I really have a hard time giving up the control to God. I tend to do it as a last resort after I've exhausted myself trying to do so much in my own strength. You'd think I would learn by now, wouldn't you? I know as a mother we just want the best for our kids. We want a good relationship with them. I think especially mothers and daughters. But I think sometimes we try too hard and end up pushing them away. I'm thinking of myself when I say that. I want so bad to have a good relationship with my daughter too. So much so that I push her away sometimes. It's always been those times when I least expect it that she will confide in me or something. I've noticed that when I back off a little and I'm not so hard on her or pushy, she'll act better towards me and less rebellious. Of course, I know your situation is different. Your child is an adult now. Mine's still a teenager. But I've had to watch her make bad choices, and hurt me terribly. But I still believe and stand on that scripture that God has good plans for her life. Jeremiah 29:11 says "For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord, "plans for good and not evil, plans to give you a hope and a future." I stand on that scripture for my daughter and claim it constantly for her.
See if you can find a scripture that fits your situation and start standing on it. God's Word is true and it doesn't come back void.
Your daughter doesn't realize it yet, but as a Christian she's supposed to forgive "7 times 70 in a day" and have compassion and turn the other cheek. It takes awhile for us to admit that we have too much pride. I know I struggle with that sometimes. God has really humbled me in the last few years. It takes a lifetime, I think, to learn the lessons of being a true follower of Christ. It's not an easy road to take sometimes. But it is so worth it!
I'll keep praying for your daughter. Please feel free to send me a pm anytime you need to talk or something. I'm a pretty good listener. Take care, and hang in there! Just work on your own relationship with God and let Him work on your daughter.
Dave, faith is all about believing without seeing. Yes, people will argue that the Bible isn't the true word of God. My own 19 year old son is questioning a lot right now. He believes in God, just isn't too sure about all the rest. He has to make his own path and discover God in his own way. All I can do is pray and guide as best as I can. He grew up in the faith so I believe that God still has His hand on Him.
Do I have questions about God and the Bible? Sure, of course. I struggle with my faith sometimes. We all do. But this I believe, God is real. Who is God? I don't know if I will ever know everything about Him. But I know that I've seen answered prayers. I've seen miracles. Yes, miracles. My own mother is a walking miracle. She was paralyzed for 7 years after a car accident and God healed her. She said she did most of her spiritual growth while she was in the wheelchair. She never got bitter, never gave up believing that God would someday heal her. There's no medical reason for her to be walking today. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it. I tend to be a sceptic too. This is what helped lead me back to Christ as and adult.
I could go on and on about the little "coincidences" of being in the right place at the right time, of God specifcally answering a prayer I've been praying about. It's hard to explain unless you've experienced it. I don't think my daughter would be alive today if it weren't for God. He means everything to me. And the more I get to know Him, the more I love Him. It's that simple. He speaks to me in many different ways, through His Word, a thought or picture of something, a dream, through someone else, lot's of different ways.
Also, God says that if you ever want to know God to just look at creation. I used to live in a real pretty, woodsy place. We always had deer and wildlife come up to our house. When I look at all creation, I'm just awed by it. How in the world could anyone believe that all this came out of chaos? The earth has to spin at just the right speed so we don't fall off of it, it has to be just the right distance from the sun so that we don't burn up or freeze. When you look at the fact that we all have a different set of fingerprints (and DNA), every single person who's every lived, isn't that mind boggling to you? How could that just be by chance? It sound to me more like a God who cares so much about His creation that He wanted each person (made after His own image) to be unique. The Bible says that His eye is on the sparrow and He sees when each one falls. If He cares that much about a little bird, how much more do you suppose He cares about us humans, created in His likeness? He created all of this for His own pleasure and because He wanted to have a relationship with us. We're the ones who screw it up with choosing evil over good and causing wars, murders, etc. Each one of us will be held accountable someday though. God does care. He cares about every living thing. If you don't believe, try seeking Him for yourself. He says He can be found by those who are truly seeking Him.
You mentioned that your Daughter is a devout Christian?
To exile you and refuse to even talk to you anymore doesn't seem very Christian to me.
People who follow the word of God are not supposed to be resentful, hateful, vendictive, or cruel, especially to family. It's strange how some people call themselves Christians, yet the Love they give is only conditional. Somehow I don't think that's what Jesus had in mined when he died on the cross.
Love of family is ALWAYS supposed to be unconditional. I think your daughter should be ashamed of herself for acting this way just because she didn't agree with a few comments you made.
I have read your comments and found them to be incredibly helpful and supportive (even though I didn't initiate this thread). Cat - I can so much identify with what you are going through and am glad that my estranged daughter does not have children. Your comment about not letting you and your daughter's fighting effect the children shows me that you are a very caring person. Didn't know she was a single parent. That can be difficult and I speak from experience. At least your daughter is e-mailing you which is a form of communication.
You said, "as thier grandma, what can I do?" - I don't know where you are but I'm in Toronto, Canada and here a grandparent has some rights with respect to seeing his/her grandchildren. But would that negatively effect your grandchildren?
I am far from being a devout Christian but it seems to me there is a quote in the Bible about judge not lest ye be judged. It seems to me that most of this estrangement is your daughter's "problem" and your pain. Prayer is powerful and I do it often.
Also, just because my daughter wants me out of her life, doesn't mean your daughter wants you out of hers for any length of time. When I wrote that, I didn't know she was a single parent. She probably has a LOT of problems of her own. For example, does she get any support from her childrens' father? One thing I learned from #2 son, who was a bit like Bart Simpson when he was younger, is that at some point adult children have to take responsibilities for their actions and stop blaming someone else.
I fear this message sounds cold but it is not meant to. It makes me think that maybe a Higher Power directed me (us?) to this forum for a reason - to share our pain, to talk about our experiences, get some advice and try to hope and heal and maybe re-establish a relationship with our adult children who, for some reason, don't seem to want us.
it is VERY possiable there was a divine appointment in the works here, PLEASE e mail me at anytime, I check my mail several times a day.
I was a single mother, TWICE, once with 2 boys, then again with 4 kids, and any problem she has I am more than willing to help her with. I spent my last 3 pay checks while I was working, to help her with her first pregnancy and got her everything she needed in order to make her life somewhat easier. But, she didn't see. then she got pg again, and I again did whatever I could to help her. with the 3rd child, she put my feelings aside, inviting a dozen others into the labor room and then to her home after the birth, and I did step aside at that point somewhat. her boyfriends parents and family became more important than her own. when that relationship failed, she moved an hour and a half away and now I am not as able to help as I was when the girls were born. I was VERY close to them, almost as another parent, maybe that was wrong, but I love them girls more than I can say, and so does my husband. there isn't anything I wouldn't do for them. I just had surgery, a spinal fusion, also since the girls were born, I had both knees replaced. do you think even once she EVER offered to vacum for me, or clean or anything at all. my friends at my art club, (I am an artist) really cannot believe how she is. I am going to back off, I am leaving it in the hands of God. now that dosen't mean tomorrow I won't be in tears again, but there isn't anything more I can do, its all up to God, and her now. please email me, ***@****, any of you, at any time. we are here for each other. isnt it strange how total strangers are more help than family. I ran and bought a book today, "conflct free living" by joyce meyer. I am planning on digging into that and maybe it will help. it was recommended by another, daughter in law who said, "not for one minute do I believe those girls don't want to talk to you". at least she believes me. another son said, where e is, there is trouble. so it isn't all me, maybe its "unseen forces in spiritual realms" (Eph 6.) do you think???
and ,to lonewolf you don't sound cold at all, thanks for all your help, and to April, thanks for your help too.
Just when I thought my problems were the worse possiable, a friend that I haven't seen in like 4 years stops by, torucherd by the untimely death of her 33 year old son. at every point in life, God shows us that there are worse things in life, her son is gone forever, man, I really need to learn to trust God more and leave things in HIS hands more than I do.
I did send you, el_dave and April2 a private message. Still learning how to do things on here since I'm relatively new and don't have your e-mail address.
What is happening between you and your daughter is not "all you". An argument or fight takes more than one person. You mentioned, "unseen forces in spiritual realms" - I sure believe it and have experienced it. The dark side is attracted to "good" people; it doesn't have to attract "bad" people because it already possesses them. That's something the medicine woman I go to has spoken about.
Sorry to hear about your friend's loss. Her coming back into your life does show that unseen forces in spiritual realms (God?) are at work.
Cat, your email didn't show up. You have to spell it out saying the dot and com because Medhelp blocks emails. Or we can just continue to write on her and send pm's.
I too believe God led us all together for a reason. I felt it right away. I only had that happen one other time and that was on the Gastro Forum. God brought 3 of us together on there all suffering from simular things months ago and we've all now grown very close. I love it when God works!
Cat, is your daughter very young? Give her time. Like I said, I was pretty selfish and self-centered when I was younger. I think part of the reason was I was a bit spoiled. When I look back on it my mom never really made me do chores or anything. I now struggle with that with making my own kids do more to help around the house because that's how I grew up. My husband gets upset and tells me I should make my kids do more. I think I spoiled my daughter a little bit because she's struggled so much the last few years. Now I wish I would have done some things differently. I've thought about taking them to a soup kitchen or something and helping them see how others don't have all the nice things they do. I wish I would have done it sooner.
You know, now that I think about it, I don't think I started thinking more about others (and less about myself) until first after I accepted Christ and then especially after I had to suffer myself. I know that sounds horrible but it's true. I have to split this up into two posts. It's too long! Sending part two, lol.
The last two years I went through the darkest time of my life. I don't ever want to experience that again! But God taught me so much through all that pain and darkness. He really humbled me first. I used to think my kids could do no wrong. I thought if I did everything right, took my kids to church, ate dinner together every night, always knew where my kids were and who they were with, that I'd have the perfect kids, I guess. I had a lot of pride. I looked down a little (although I didn't see it then) on others who couldn't seem to control their kids. I blamed the parents.
I've really had my eyes opened! Just to give you the short version so you have an idea what I'm talking about, two years ago we found out our daughter was cutting herself. We didn't understand. It scared us to death. Then we went through her room and found a suicide note. Talk about being scared to death! I went through such a range of emotions. I was confused, scared, grief-stricken. We immediately got her into counseling. Through counseling we discovered that she not only had been bullied terribly all through middle school (she kept a lot from us), but she also claimed that she was touched inappropriately by some neighbor boys and also girls at sleep-overs. The one boy was the older brother of her best friend. She had a lot of anger and depression that was starting to come out. She wondered about her sexuality for awhile there. She was so confused and angry. She rebelled and started sneaking out at night. Her boyfriend (she wasn't officially allowed to date yet, they only knew each other at school but would still study at each other's houses) talked her into something that she wasn't ready for. She was 14, he was 16. She cried and cried that night. Then she grew angry again at being used and chopped all her hair off and started dressing boyishly not wanting to appear attractive to boys. Again, she wondered if girls weren't "safer". She had a girl coming on to her and got her all confused again. Finally she decided that wasn't for her and that she liked guys and started dressing like a girl again. Still, she struggled with depression and cutting. She even dabbled into Satanism when she made friends with a girl who was also a cutter and into Satanism! We couldn't believe it! She grew up in church and had accepted Christ and got baptized at 12. I think she definately opened some dark doors there. I felt like we were in a spiritual battle and I didn't know how to handle it! I had so many people praying for my daughter. She was drawing sad, dark pictures and writing poems. I didn't understand any of this. She had a family who loved her but she couldn't seem to see it or care.
I had a lot of people praying for, let me tell you! I spent many nights on my knees crying and praying for her. We finally admitted her into a mental hospital when she cut herself again. I just couldn't take it anymore. It hurt to see all those scars and cuts on her and not know how to stop it. I had to finally admit I couldn't handle it anymore. They kept her for four days and started her an an anti-depressant. I think it was a big wake-up call to her. She is doing so much better now. We are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. She even is cautiously seeking God again. She was angry with Him for awhile there and blamed Him for a lot.
We may never know how close we've come to losing her. She had struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts for a long time and we just didn't know! We were pretty clueless for awhile. We did see her getting more moody and grades dropping when she was 12 but didn't know how bad it was. And I had a newborn then and I felt guilty that maybe I got too caught up in the new baby and didn't see what was going on. Yeah, I beat myself up a lot over all the mistakes I've made. I've wished I could have caught things earlier and spared us all this pain. But I know that I can't go back. I can only go forward. She's almost 16 now (next week!) and is doing so much better. I give God all the credit and glory for that.
Sorry, I know this was longer than I meant! But I wanted to show you that I do understand how much our kids can hurt us and how much we hurt for them. We want so much for them to make the right choices and be happy. I know I did. But my daughter is very strong willed and stubborn and had to learn a lot of things the hard way.
Looking back, I realize that God had given me a heart now for hurting teens and kids confused about their sexuality. So many of them are confused because like my daughter, they were molested. I notice more when I see someone sitting off by themselves. I don't judge any more the kids who look different. My daughter went through the "Emo" stage too. I didn't like it and didn't let her go too far into it but again it all seemed so dark and I was trying to pull her away from the darkness. She's been slowly healing and pulling away from the darker things. But it had to be her. I couldn't make her. I know that God is working on her.
The best thing you can do, Cat, is concentrate on your own relationship with God. Let all of this go and give it to God to take care of. Let your daughter see God in you! You can be that perfect example to her. It says in the Bible that we can be a witness without even opening our mouths! Let her see God's peace in you and wonder about it! She might be drawn to that, who knows. Do the things that you enjoy. Start volunteering somewhere and give back all that compassion and generosity that you have in your heart. There are so many people who can benefit from that and it will make you feel good too! And your daughter will see and notice. Let her know that you love her and are always there for her and then step back. Let her make that next step. Still send cards on birthdays, etc. But don't let her call all the shots. You give her a sense of control when you she sees you begging to be in her life and crying and stuff. And I recommend reading "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud. Sometimes we have to give a little "tough love" to our kids. I wish I would have with my own daughter a long time ago. She learned real fast to manipulate me. We were afraid to discipline her or even look at her wrong for awhile there because we were afraid she'd hurt herself. We were walking on eggshells around her! And the more we did it, the more self-centered she became. Pretty soon we realized how rediculous we were acting and we started pulling in the reigns again. Oh sure, she'd threaten to hurt herself again or run away but we'd just tell her calmly if she did we'd take her back to the mental hospital or call the cops. She started to realize she couldn't control us anymore. And she's been acting much more pleasant! I know that you have a different situation. I was just sharing my story.
And now that I've written a book, lol, I'll sign off now. Please feel free to write any time you need to talk. I'm a good listener! And I'm on here almost every day. Take care & God bless.
I forgot to mention that during those two years my marriage suffered, the stress was overwhelming and then I found out I had a mass that needed to be removed from my small intestine. We didn't know what it was but I had peace about it. I knew God would take care of me. I had to have major surgery last Summer to remove and resect my colon. But God is good! It was not cancer (never thought it was, although the doctor was concerned). They did think i had Crohns but now aren't sure. I'm just trusting God in all that and with my daughter. It's all too much for me to bear on my own anyway.
Again, I wanted to share all that to show you that I do understand. God doesn't promise that we won't have trials but He does promise that He will be there with us when we go through them. I don't know how I would have gone through all of that if I didn't have my faith to fall back on. I think I would have lost it! I came pretty close at times. But God was always there. When things seemed the darkest, He always gave me a glimmer of hope again.
He'll be there for you too. Just lean on Him.
And sorry I wrote a book, lol! I'll try to do better! :) Have a blessed day!
OK lets try this again, all one word, cryljune at yahoo *******.
I can relate to almost the entire story your telling. my daughter at age 16 started giving me real problems too, she moved in with a practicing witch, did spells wore all black and wrote me horriable notes like, "see you in hell *****" she cut herself too. she denied God wrote satanic things on mirrors and trashed my bedroom and broke lots of expensive things. I called the cops, they didn't do a thing but tell me to 'get control' of my kid. she beat me up a couple of times, but still today denies it, says she didn't do it. she may have been on drugs and don't remember, my son said last night, he still does remember it. she is 28 now, returned to the Lord. she had to when she got pg, I guess that is what brought her around. she has said that without the pregnancy she would be in jail or dead. I think God took care of her and like you I prayed and prayed, for a couple of my kids gave me real problems, yes she was molested also, but for me that is NO excuse, get over it I say, let God deal with it and move on, I guess that isn't how it is for them, but that is how I see it. she said that she only got into the dark side because that was how she knew she could hurt me the most. now...someday her daughters will do the same things, I think, I don't wish that on my wonderful granddaughters, but I do wish she could for a little while, feel my pain. I know that is not a christian attitude, but she needs to know what pain she is causing in others.
It's interesting that you say that she told you she only got into the dark things to hurt you. This tells me there is indeed a control issue going on here, on your daughter's part. It's really important that you don't let her control your life any longer. Don't let her control your emotions, your feelings...anything. For some reason she's getting enjoyment out of being able to control and manipulate you.
Listen, I understand! It's only been recently where I realized how much I was letting my daughter control my life, my happiness, everything. I felt like I was neglecting my other children because I was so focused on her. Sure, I made a lot of sacrifices for her; got her into counseling when we couldn't really afford it, got her medication when I wondered if I should get some for me! It goes on and on. Do you think she understands or appreciates it? Probably not. I hope someday when she's an adult she will look back and realize how much I did for her.
I wonder with your daughter acting the was she does if she doesn't still have some demonic strongholds there. I hope you don't think I'm too crazy but you did say that she was into some demonic things and she may not have renounced or got rid of all that when she came back to the Lord. Just a thought.
Think about what I said. Start taking care of you. Allow the peace of God to enter you. Start doing things that you enjoy. That would probably drive your daughter crazy! She'll wonder why you're so happy and at peace when your life isn't centered around her anymore. Who knows? It might draw her back to you, if for no other reason than out of curiousity to see what's up with you. Sorry, sometimes that mischevious, wicked little humor comes out in me! :)
You might want your son to talk to your daughter since he remembers how she acted towards you. Maybe she'd believe it coming out of him. If he'd be willing. Just pray about it and see.
As far as getting over the molestation, I have a couple of thoughts on that. It depends on the age that the molestation happened and a lot of other factors. I think it's good and healthy to go through the anger, etc. for a little while but then they do need to be able to move past it and with God's help they can. I too was molested by my own brother. We both were kids though, he was 13 or 14 and I was 8 or 9 at the time. Yeah, he probably was old enough to know better but I've forgiven him. I think it was wrong but I'm not holding on to it. It does have me more watchful over kids being alone together. And yet I still couldn't protect my daughter when she went to these sleepovers. If I could do things over again, I probably would. We live in an evil world. It's harder and harder to protect our kids.
I do understand wanting your daughter to feel your pain, but don't forget, vengence is from the Lord. He will deal with her in His own time. She will be held accountable just as we all are on how we treat others.
The only way you're going to be able to move on and move past this is by taking all your hurts to the Lord and be willing to let it go. You have to be able to forgive her to have His peace. And it's a peace that surpasses all human understanding! The world doesn't understand it because they only look at the circumstances and say we shouldn't have peace because of our circumstances when He says to look to Him and not our circumstances, and to be thankful in all things. Yep, thankful in all things. Boy, that's so hard! I've been working on that myself. But it really does work. When you let go of your worries and heartache and just start praising and thanking God a wonderful thing happens. You start to feel His joy well up in you. We have to continually seek His face every day, though, or we go right back to our burdens and heartaches. It's a process but it works. Try and spend time every day in prayer, not just asking for things but in praise and worship, remembering to thank Him for who He is, for His faithfulness. Someone told me once to pray like you already have it. So that's how I try to remember praying. Thanking God for working on my daughter, thanking Him for saving her and healing her, etc. See if this will work for you. Try saying something like, "Lord, I just thank you for saving my daughter. I thank you for molding her and shaping her into the Godly woman you want her to be. I thank you that you are turning her heart back towards me, her mother. I thank you that you are even now softening her heart. You are teaching her the truth. I speak truth into her life. You are releasing her from demonic bondage and opening her eyes to the truth." etc., etc. You can come up with your own things. Just believe what you are praying. If you don't think you have enough faith, pray about it. Ask God to give you more faith. And He will!
I hope any of this helps. I don't want to be too pushy or preachy. I just love the Lord so much I like to talk about Him!
Write back if you like. Take care.
I just LOVE your letters to me, and I am right there with you. it seems like we have been through the same things in a lot of ways, try to get to my e mail all in one word, cry l (L)june at yah oo. maybe this will get through. cryljune.
I don't really know if she has denounced all she was into or not, she is in a very good church that should be teaching that, I am sure they are, and I am sure she knows, she blames me for a lot of things, she thinks I was a bad mom. her and another brother, both say I was not a good mom. I compleatly understand why you feel like you do, I do too, about forsaking the family and other kids to care for her, for me, I had a son before her that gave me a lot of problems. he was heavy into drugs and alcohol, stole from us, the court finally put him in out of home placement. I spent so many years worrying about Jason, that the rest of the kids and a new marriage got set aside. my daughter came next. for some reason the younger ones, 2 of mine and 2 step kids looked up to the troubled brother as some sort of hero, went his own way and they wanted it too. my daughter at age 16 left home to live with him in the home of a practicing witch, I called the cops and they said, if you force her home she will run again, we find kids like this under the bridge, at least here she is safe, so I left her there. I had a nervous breakdown, do you think any of this fases her? no. even today her attitude would be, "whatever mom". its my fault, everything is. no matter what I say or how I explane, she don't see my side or want to hear it at all. she has even said, "I don't want to ever hear how bad I was or how bad YOU had it, I had it bad and you were NOT there for me".
I am getting on with my self, back to the art club ect... as I said, I just had a spinal surgery and I am still healing, but with Gods help, this will pass. It may be she has things to learn to. I am stepping back, right now, I don't care if she wants to see me or not, I don't need the stress she brings here. she wants everything her way, and I want it mine, so we clash, fine, if that is what she wants, fine. I hope she finds her way, soon, but if I move away and it don't happen first, then that is what Gods will is. we live in CA and are moving to WA after christmas, maybe next spring, somewhere in there. she is aware of this, so if she dosen't want to see me, then that is on her. I will miss the kids, but hey, what can I do? my poor husband is sick of me being all depressed over her all the time and frankly, so am I. this has to stop. it will kill me if it dosen't. stress kills. God will take care of us all, even you and your family. I am very glad to have met you. I hope you can get through to my personal mail box.
Hmmm, interesting. You said she told you that you weren't there for her. That shows me there's some pain and unforgiveness in her heart. That could explain a lot. I'm not saying she's right in thinking that way, but the point is she IS thinking that way. She thinks, right or wrong, that you weren't there for her. This could be partly why she's trying to hurt you and have some control there. Yeah, sure it shows some immaturity but then I've seen that time and time again in families. Somebody gets hurt and all of a sudden they're not talking to the other person and they won't let their kids contact their kids and will go on like that for years. I just shake my head in sadness and think "Life is so short! Is it really worth it?" Why can't people understand that? We have such a short time on this Earth. Why would we cause such pain to ourselves and others when we could just swallow our pride and apologize and try to mend our relationships. I just don't get it.
Doesn't she understand that God, Himself said that He can't forgive you until you've forgiven others? Probably not. She may not even realize that she is harboring some unforgiveness and bitterness there. See, it's easier to blame you for all the mistakes she made and pain she experienced. Then she wouldn't have to face it and see her weaknesses or faults, which we all have.
Well, like I said, give it to God and keep praying about it. He can certainly do miracles. In the meantime, don't wait around for her to come to you. Go on about your life and do what you enjoy and focus on your own relationship with God.
I wish you the best. Peace.
My girlfriend's Mom pretty much abandoned her when she was a child. Dal was raised by an Aunt. When Dal's Mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer about four years ago, Dal had already been through nursing school. She dropped her job, dropped her life, really, and came to take care of her Mom. Her Mom's now been 'undiagnosed as dying', but this isn't about that. What it's about is that Dal still has considerable resentment against her Mom. "She abandoned me. She had no good part in my life. If you see any decency in me at all it's because of my Aunt". Then I talk to her Mom (when she's sober enough to talk), and I get: "Some people think because she spent a lot of time with her aunt that her aunt raised her. What they don't know is that *I* paid for every stitch of clothing on that child's back and every bowl of cereal she ate!"
Apparently the Aunt demanded money for child support. In Sweetling's Mom's mind, sending that money means the Aunt really didn't contribute to raising Dal, after all, "she was paid". That kinda lets you know who created the problems in that particular mother-daughter realtionship.
I'm not trying to make Dal's Mom out to be a monster. She thinks like she thinks, she is as she is. But I'd like you to note that although Dallas harbors some resentment (justified resentment at that) she still dropped her life for her Mom's. Dal isn't a super Christian, in church all the time and all, but she believes in God, leads her kids through prayers and "devotions", all that. However, her acceptance of her Mom's fault doesn't come from religious beliefs at all, it comes from being Dallas. She's still there, her Mom gets drunk every single night, curses Dal, calls her names. Now that her Mom's not dying, Dal will be moving the family out, for the children's sake... but when her Mom needed her, she came.
I have no idea why I thought you two should know about that, but I did so there it is.
She sounds like a wonderful woman Dave. She has a big heart.
Something I think a lot of people don't realize is that when we forgive others for their offenses against us, it isn't to let them off the hook. It's to help US to heal and move on. Does that make sense?
When you shared that story it reminded me of a book I read. Stormie O'Martian had a difficult childhood. Her mother was mentally ill. She abused her mentally and physically. She would put her in a closet for hours at a time. When Stormie grew up she fell into drugs, alcohol, etc. When she had hit rock bottom, she found God. It took years still for her to move past her depression and pain from her childhood. Eventually, she was able to recognize that her mother was mentally ill and have compassion on her and even forgive her. Her mother never changed, but Stormie did. She was finally able to let go and forgive her mother. This happened right before her mother died. When she got news that her mother was dying, she raced to be with her hoping she could see her and share with her but she died before she got there. Still, she had peace because she knew that she no longer harbored any bitterness and unforgiveness towards her mother. She had peace.
Thank you for sharing, Dave.
your not intruding, all are welcome, please keep reading and writing. gosh I am overwelmed by the response this thread has gotten, having adult kids is hard, and I thought once they were 18 it would be easier, HA! not so, its just as hard then we get to add grand kids, who is kidding who. I will write later, its late, I am going to bed.
i too have had and still have issues with some of my adult children. what i feel is being overlooked here is that our adult children have the right to live their lives as they choose. if our values match theirs that is great and the relationships can be healthy and active. if they do not match, then justback away is my attitude. there is an old saying, i give you into God"s Hands, because He loves you more than i, a flawed human, ever could. live your life and enjoy it. before you had children there was just you. is it so awful to be happy for the freedom you have again now that those children are grown and on their own? if i offend, i apologize. but i view this forum as a place to share thoughts and opinions. God bless. wuckie
boy, I cannot belive this, I opened my email and found a notice from this board and found this, I had forgotten all about this board. well my daughter is almost 39 now, things are worse than ever. My husband and I have moved to Washington State, he retired last spring. we allowed my daughter and her 3 children to move into our california house and she is still living there and not talking to me, only my husband. her daughter told her some lies about how I am supposeingly trying to take her away from her mom and her mom belives her so she has taken me off her face book page and will NOT allow me to speak with that grandchild. the girl is my granddaughter that I love so much I don't know why the kid is lying to her mom, but she is, and she is probably scared to death to admitt it now. anyhow there is no communication at all and the longer it goes on the eaiser it gets, so that is scarry too. I will catch everyone up at a latter time if everyone is still reading this thread.
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