rational depression?

[m_anyak]

I found out 6 months ago that I was HIV positive.  The news came as a complete shock to me as I have had very few sex partners and always had safe sex.  Since I found out, I had be incredibly sad and indescribably lonely.  I've been forced to change career paths (the one I had dreamt of my entire life requires a medical clearance), I can't bear going out, and I cry virtually all day long.  I moved across the country about 4 months before I found out and I have had no one to talk to (besides a few people I met online).  I am just in such a low place in my life... but I think for very legitimate and rational reasons.

I am very averse to taking any kind of medication because I was generally a very happy person before I found out this absolutely horrible news.  Is there something like rational depression?  I can't fathom what a therapist might be able to tell or prescribe me to alter the reality of my life's circumstances now...

[dave20405]

This depression is not rational.  No depression is rational.  You have been diagnosed with AIDS.  Yet the diagnosis has happened and you have aids.  This does not directly affect your mood.  The change in mood comes from judgements about your life with aids.  Most likely these judgements are associations in your brain that are happening sub-conciously.  The fact is that rationally you should be just as happy as you ever have been.  This is for the following reason.  Around you there is nothing threatening.  The thing that is sad and threatening is the thought in your brain.  It is not a reaction to anything present.  lf you can recognize when these thoughts come and realize that they are tricks of the mind then slowly you can realize that the aids has not changed you at all.  You remain exactly the same person as you were before.  The thing that has changed is your thoughts which were dominately positive before and have become dominetely negative.  But the fact is that these are just thoughts and have no baring in reality.  Hopefully you will have a moment were you are able to see outside of your negative mood and ultimately outside of yourself.  In this moment you will realize that the AIDS DOES NOT MATTER.  That you have the right and the ability to be happy.  This moment hopefully will come more and more.

[el_dave]

Howdy again, ma'am. I was writing to you before they threw me in the booby hatch, and I was wondering how things are going for you. Have you found any reasons to grab all the good you can yet?

-El Dave

[omanlover]

dear, i am so sorry to hear that. i wish i can do something to help you, but i do not what to do! i knew someone with HIV ! he do not knew from where he catch it ! he lose his job too! he was depressed at the begining . he refuse to speak to any body. but by time he realized  he did not choose this, why to punch hiself.  our society- unlike yours- did not except people with HIV at all. this gye help in changing this idea. he was so realistic. he choose to compete with life. he was so optomistic, so a life. i believe his disease make him  apreciate life as he never did! he is fighting now to open a home to those with HIV, as a place to support each other! the idea of support group is so unfamiliar here.
hope you get it! it is always up to you. you are the one how decide how to spend you life!
and rememberr every thing happen for a reason!

do not never ever be so cruel to your self.& do not give  much a tention to what people think. ok!
keep in touch

[m_anyak]

I'm sorry that I haven't responded sooner.

You guys are incredibly fortunate to have each other and Kenny is especially lucky to have a loving partner to be there for him through what I know was an incredibly difficult time.  

I appreciate your words of advice.  I should note that I am fully aware that new advances in medication have made the life-expectancy for someone with HIV much, much longer.  Still, it's the quality of life (or lack thereof) - whether for 5 years of 35 years - that is the absolute worst part of this situation.

I envy the happiness that you have, your faith, and your hope for the future.  I can't say that I have any of those.    

Being a firm believer in "help comes to those that help themselves," I've tried  tried to meet others similar to me (age, interests) and that are also HIV+, I've begun running everyday (having read that exercise helps mental health), and I've started spending more time outside.  All to no avail - nothing I have done has helped: I haven't been able to meet anyone prepared to provide any kind of emotional or moral support and my running is just making me lose weight that I really shouldn't be losing.  I have little to no appetite and can hardly wake up in the morning.

I just don't know what to do anymore.  Despite my efforts I do not feel any better - quite the opposite is true.  I see no joy in my future.  What more can I do?  Am I doing something wrong?

I didn't think it was possible, but I feel more alone now than ever.

[nannyleenie]

This is Nannyleenie My husband wrote under my name by mistake If you want to write him directly his name redeemed1  BE BLESSED BE STRONG

[nannyleenie]

my name is kenny,the husband nannyleenie wrote to you about.i can totally understand the way you feel ,living with this disease since 1991.you are entitled to go through your feelings,but understand hiv is now a manageable disease like diabetes.i take 1 pill at night called atripla,and that is it.when i first got diagnosed they had azt as the only feasable medication,and it was like drinking drano,you got totally sick to your stomach and i couldn't get out of bed.i now work full time,go the gym 5 days a week,and live an active life at 52 years of age.you feelings are your own,just understand the facts of the disease.modern medicine has come a long way,including hiv couples having children with the administering of medications during birth.the stigma has greatly changed,but some ignorance still exists.you have to pick and choose who you disclose your business to,as i'm open to letting people know my hiv status as to give the lord all the glory in how well i'm doing.for about 5 years i had less than 10 t-cells,which basically means i had no immune system,went on a clinical trial for a medication,started taking the medication,and my virus has been undetectable for many years.my fear of hiv is minimal,as i also have hep c,which i am on treatment for as we speak.i'm on the hep c forum under the name redeemed 1.hang in there kid,my life is better than ever,full and a hope for the future.any questions you have about this disease or if you want to vent feel free to write me.you can write me on this forum or the hep c forum as i will check both,be blessed and you have hope,kenny

[nannyleenie]

My heart goes out to you. I know what a terrible thing it is to be told that you have HIV. My husband was diagnosed with HIV in l990 He was 32 years old at the time. We were totally devastated. Back then it was truly a death sentence. We felt so alone because we were afraid to tell people about it because we were embarassed and ashamed. Back then it was even worse because it was new and people thought they could catch it just by drinking out of the same glass as you   They did not have the medical knowledge that they have now nor the different medications Our outlook was very bleak We went through a very depressing and scary time.We did not think that he had much of a future. Through being blessed to have come across some wonderful healthcare proffessionals and our strong faith in God my husband has had the blessing to be around for the birth of four beautiful grandchildren and many happy years in fairly good health Twenty years later my husband is still in pretty good health except that he has Hepatatis C.which he is treating right now with a very rough treatment.
Our friends and family once they accepted the situation have been very supportive and loving.
I am not making light of your feelings. I know that right now you must feel totally alone and ashamed You have nothing to be ashamed about. I know that it is hard to believe at this time but life will get better. You may one day meet someone who will love you enough to not care about the Hiv but to care about you instead.
I have not for one minute thought of leaving or not loving my husband
There are many wonderful new drugs out there that will not affect your happy personality but may just give you a long healthy life. My husband is one of the happiest and funny people around and he has been on medication for Hiv for years
I will keep you in prayer. I just want you to know that Hiv is no longer a death sentence. If you take care of your health  and take the right medication you can have a long happy life ahead of your I believe a strong faith in God can be a big help in this situation
God bless you
Helene
If you have any questions feel free to write

[lonewolf07]

Hi

I think your reaction is quite rational and appropriate to hearing you are HIV+.

Have you spoken to others who are HIV+ and have NOT been given an "expiry date"?  I am not part of the mainstream medical system and was under the impression that having HIV does not necessarily mean you will get AIDS or that HIV was an automatic death sentence.

Having read some of the comments, I tend to agree that there are going to be some really judgemental people out there which might be why you referred to yourself as, "worthless".  This culture, this society has really put a negative stigma on being HIV+.  There are a lot of ignorant bottomfeeders who judge others.  But I know it hurts, just like being called a "squaw" hurts me.  You might be forced to endure their cruel, nasty comments but they will never be people you call, "friend".  Easy to say, not so easy to do.

It also seems like you are not only in shock but are feelling grief at the loss of your dream of working in the medical field.  Grief takes time and we all do it at our own speed and in our own way.

Maybe instead of comparing yourself to milk, you could think of yourself as being in a different place on a chess board than you were before you found out about the HIV.  You are still you.  Again, I think I'm over-simplifying what you are going through.  I'll just say straight out, at the risk of being perceived as presumptuous and phony, that I think you are a strong, honest person and it would be an honor to call you "friend" (in the virtual sense, since I'm in Canada).

Hugs and lots of good thoughts

lonewolf

[el_dave]

Thank you so much for writing that last note. The mind that has that much consideration for others despite carrying such burdens is a beautiful mind, indeed. Thank you.

[el_dave]

But you're not milk. You're a human being, looking at all the negative possibilities. Okay, probabilities.  Is there really absolutely no way you can see any joy coming to you?

Hildy says you should live for today. If you feel alright today, enjoy today. Hildy says don't think about twenty years from now or even one year from now, just take one day at a time. Hildy was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 1989, but has had four major operations and is fine now. It wasn't all that many years ago that with an aggressive malignancy like hers she wouldn't have had a chance.

Your spoiled milk anology is excellent. Did you design that yourself?  I suppose if that milk in the refrigerator were the only foodstuff available to me, I'd have to try to develop a taste for spoiled milk rather than pour it out. It's not like we can be sure that another life is forthcoming, is it?

Does any of that make any sense to you?

-El Dave

[m_anyak]

after reading what I wrote again, I realized that my writing suggests that I will hurt myself in some way.  

I wont.

I just feel so incredibly defeated and I have no idea what to do.  That's why I came here, I guess.

[m_anyak]

Well, I have never heard of a non-terminally ill HIV patient.  

The life expectancy that they now tell people is around 20 years.  Which, for me, means 43.  Yes, I have a number.  An expiration date.  It's analogous to milk, I guess.  Let's say you have milk in the refrigerator that you know you wont consume and you know wont taste good, but that still has a week left until it expires.  What do you do with it?  

People don't die of HIV, they die of other diseases that someone with a normal immune system could fight off with a few vitamin C's and some chicken soup.  HIV is one of those really horrible diseases that takes it's toll on you rather slowly and that you can never really forget you have.  First you start to take medications and hope that they work (you have to take them on time everyday. period. I have a whole handful of nice colorful pills that I somehow manage to hide from the world).  Once you find a treatment that's good for you (and it's really a guessing game), you have to be tested 3-4 times a year to make sure that your medication still works.  See, the virus is smarter than the medication and eventually becomes resistant (missing even a single dose can make you resistant).  So, lingering over you is the ever-real possibility that your medication is failing; that your immune system is slowly vanishing.  Eventually, most all HIV+ people will experience this.  For some it may take 3 or 4 years, for others 7 or 10.  But it happens.

Nowadays, there are other "classes" of drugs you can take once yours fail, but those don't always work and the side-effects are not always manageable.  One of the more common side-effects is something horrible called Lipodystrophy, where your body's fat gets redistributed in weird ways throughout your body.  If you are fortunate enough not to experience horrible side effects and not to experience lipodystrophy, there are scores of cancers and other diseases associated with HIV.  And, because cancer treatment is not exactly easy on your immune system, treating an HIV + cancer patient is like trying to put a band-aide on an amputee. Other things like rashes, jaundice, liver and kidney failure, anemia, fatigue, and a host of other lovely things are not uncommon, either.   Did I mention that my HIV medication would cost over $4000 a month without insurance?  I swallow in pills a month almost the equivalent to what I'm making.  Good thing I have insurance, but still!

So, I guess that 20 years is probably going to be fairly unpleasant.  Not to mention lonely and sad.

So again, you have this milk in the fridge that you will not consume and you know you wont like. It's going to expire in a week.  Wouldn't you just pour it out?

[el_dave]

I asked my Hildy, and she said many folks are like me, aware of the different ways it can be spread. But does it really matter? I suppose not.. it's your business, and folks really have no right to make any judgements about it. You've much more reason than I to feel depressed, but what you're pointing out there is one of the factors that did bring me to the brink of destruction previously. Society stinks, that's the fact.

I have to say, my Hildegard has been involved with the medical community almost her entire adult life. She's at the executive level and has been for many years now, and has seen and dealt with thousands and thousands of cases. She sees them from beginning to end. I haven't checked with my Sweetling, who is a nurse, yet, to back this up, but Hildy claims the being HIV positive doesn't mean terminal in every case. Unless you know something you're not telling, isn't that a reason to have a little hope?

But perhaps you're like me.. prepare for the worst and if better happens it's like a gift. If you expect the worst there are no hopes to dash. Seems like a valid outlook to me.. I just worry about when you say "makes me wonder why I should even bother", because that glimmer of hope you aren't feeling is why you should bother.

You're definitely not supposed to just keep hoping for something "good" to come along, you're supposed to hang onto life as long as you can and enjoy it as much as you can. So, so easy for me to write that, isn't it? The ease with which I can write it and the difficulty you have accepting it don't change the truth of it, though.

Society is dukey. Society is the beast sitting in unfair judgement of you, by your own statement. You don't have to put in more than you take out, "society" squanders our resources on things that don't matter. You do matter.

I have to go cry like a grandma for a while now, praying to a God I can't believe in for you. Praying for you to see that you're still here, that there's no sense in jumping into a grave in your own mind before it's time.

First, though, I have to ask you, is Hildy wrong? Is being HIV positive of necessity terminal?

[m_anyak]

yes.  I know the vast majority of people will feel that way.  Before I got the news I used to think that people with HIV were irresponsible and careless; that had they been more careful they wouldn't have contracted the disease... were my sentiments not those that most people harbor?  So being HIV positive is not just having a terminal illness - but it's knowing that you will get little sympathy, that people will talk about you behind your back, that some doctors will be afraid to touch you..I could go on and on.  

and I really don't feel alive.  i feel like a walking zombie - so empty inside. hollow.  I mean... am I supposed to just keep hoping for something "good" to come along?  how long am I supposed to wait?  and what am I supposed to do in the meantime?

worthless because I am now costing society more than I am putting into it.  

anyhow, i really don't know what the point of writing all of this is... i know there are no answers to my questions.  and I know that most people reading this will just pass on by because there isn't much to say here. it is what it is.

[el_dave]

Are you absolutely sure everyone will feel that way? I hear so much about people becoming HIV positive because of transfusions or other things that are innocent.. surely others hear of them too? Well, but then, society does stink to the high heavens, so you're probably right.

I'm not sure who would want to be with you.. another person with the same problem perhaps, or someone who didn't focus on certain things? I don't know, but I know you're not just a statistic and you're still alive. No "miracles" perhaps, but good things can happen. I'm sorry if I seem like an optimist, I'm not, but whatever time we have we should make the most of.

I'm just so sorry this has happened to you. That doesn't do you a bit of good, of course.. I suppose there's nothing I could do, but if you think of anything, just say the word.

-El Dave

P.S. I understand why you might list anxious, sad, lonely, sleepless, hopeless, and helpless, but why "worthless"?

[m_anyak]

Thanks for your replies.  I really appreciate the support.

One of the most resounding issues, however, is the intense - no, unbearable shame that comes with this diagnosis.  This is different than cancer, where everyone becomes sympathetic and supportive. I am young (23), responsible, and professional and have just been thrown into this category with intravenous drug users and people who are promiscuous.  This is that one terminal illness that society blames on the infected and makes those unfortunate enough to be HIV+ feel like unwanted pariahs.  

Besides, who would want to be with me now?  I have always wanted to have children, to grow old with someone...The prospect of being alone for the rest of my life, going in and out of the hospital, dying youjng, and knowing that I am just some statistic, makes me wonder why I should even bother.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel.  There is no "miracle" recovery.  This is something I have to keep hidden from pretty much everyone.  I am suffering quietly. I have no support network, no one I can talk to about this that is my age.  Everyday, I feel like I'm dying just a little bit more.   Now, I feel trapped in a job because I need the health benefits,  I feel alienated from pretty much the outside world and I frankly do not see anything changing.

I've been to online forums for HIV positive people and everyone keeps saying it gets better with time.  I feel like the opposite is true for me.  The more I think about all of this, the more anxious, sad, lonely, sleepless, hopeless, helpless, worthless, I feel.  

[el_dave]

I think you're describing what I called "situational" depression. In other words, caused by real life events as opposed to chemical imbalances or etceteras. Does HIV positive mean "AIDS", or just the chance of it? I'm not too bright.

Whichever, and whatever the cause of anyone's "rational" depression, I have to say two things: 1. You never know what tomorrow may bring. Prepare for any eventuality, but anticipate the best, and 2. We're all alotted a certain number of years. Whatever remains at any time shouldn't be spent in worry and in despair. Each and every one of us is going away somewhere some day, and this life will only be a memory (if we still exist at all). If you possibly can, find some folks to have fun with.

My girlfriends Mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer a few years ago. She's had a "miracle" recovery, and been given a new lease on life. She is drinking heavily with it instead of glorying in her newfound years and using them to feel and spread some joy. That's so sad.

I know it's real easy for me to say, not having been diagnosed HIV positive, but grab at whatever good you can and all the enjoyment you can, try to reject bad feelings. There's no profit in them. Que será, será.

-El Dave

[ParamedFlorena]

I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis. It must be really shocking to get such news, having lived as you say: A low-risk life.

Moving, that's always difficult. Some are outgoing and make a whole lot of friends, through work, through neighbors, through this and that... etc!

This is a very rational depression. You're facing a whole lot of phases having your diagnose. First, you have the phase of shock, then I believe it is the same as with loosing someone: You bargain, you deny, you ignore, you accept... All in all, you're looking at how to make life work even with your diagnose. I don't know much about how it is to live with HIV. The worst that's happened to me was to adapt to life, which also gave a "rational depression" - the arguements and the thoughts. Had to let the emotions to even start allowing myself to react!

A therapist - not as in psychiatrist (who's the only one who should prescribe you any meds at all) - could be of good help for you if it gets too tough to find a way to adapt to this experience. I'm so glad that you have found this forum. You have the journal option too, to figure our your thoughts. You can change the privacy there to "only me" as in who can read.

Allow me to give you what I read in your message: A totally explainable rational depression based on what you have met now in life with your diagnose, and in having an illness that makes you go through the grief-phases - everything from understandning the why's, up to adjusting to HIV.

Do what you have to do for this - online support groups, offline support groups, someone to talk to online and offline - it could be a pastor or a friend or just... anyone who can be a good listener! (It's fully possible that the guy who runs a pub at the other side of the street would be a great listener as well as a man with high education and high rates pr 10-minute counseling session).

I hope you find some great contacts here. Good luck!
Florena