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351317 tn?1204751871

why don't they blood test for serotonin levels?

Why don't they blood test for serotonin levels? Couldn't this help differentiate between a chemical depression and situational one?
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Avatar universal
Agree. I have developed multiple food intolerances since menopause, including preservatives, and some definitely affect mood and cognition :/
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Avatar universal
Totally disagree, the only time most people have fluctuating moods is during the first 2-6 weeks, before the meds generally reach full functional capacity.
(For some this period may be months).
I have been on different meds long-term several times, and this is generally the only period during which I have felt unstable, and efficacy has not been affected.
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Avatar universal
Thank you for your explanation, that actually makes sense!
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Avatar universal
I started on Pristiq/desvenlafaxine (SNRI) a year ago for major depression, severe anxiety, panic attack disorder and complex chronic PTSD. Initially my psychiatrist wanted to put me up from 50, to 100, then 150mg, but the latter made me very unwell so he dropped it back.
I now take 100mg daily, plus my regular, long-standing 75mg Avanza/mirtazapine nocte with Xanax as my PRN. It's not perfect, but I've tried a few other combo's, and this seems to be the most stable and well-balanced for management of side-effects (only Xanax is an issue but I've developed a tolerance for diaz/valium).
Having said that, if I accidentally miss a day of Pristiq, I do get brain zaps, which appears to be quite common according to user forums (and it is recommended to take it at the same time every day).
My psych has tried me on a couple of different anti-psychotics, which were a dismal failure; made me too sick to continue; and when I was younger I took Prozac/fluexotine for many years for Pre-Menstrual Dysphoric Disorder (ironically I now have worse issues due to menopause, but I sleep a lot better, go figger).
Interestingly, my GP recommended I increase the Avanza from 60 to 75mg for additional anxiety support, as I don't like the side-effects of Xanax, and it has actually helped. Apparently some anti-d's have this effect, which is handy, because very few of us have a singular diagnosis.
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Avatar universal
polishprincess50 I would also be very concerned about serotonin syndrome with the above symptoms, and advise seeing a doctor immediately.  Anxiety and/or depression often cause sweats, flushes, and excessive teariness however.
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Avatar universal
Other factors fall into play here that are forgotten such as our age, what was happening in our lives before we became depressed or ridden with anxiety. The type of lives we live, our personalities, how capable each of us are at being forced to evolve to this new fast paced life that we are expected to live. Pressure, stress, multitasking, not all of us have had time to adjust to these life and society changes. Not to mention our diets, the food we now eat is chocked full of unhealthy things that alter our bodies chemistry. Check out the book called "The Human Zoo", Desmond Morris 1969, its a bit dated, but it will make you stop and think.
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Avatar universal
I think that endorphin levels are low in most cases and they don't want to deal with it (the doctors) because the medication to correct this low level of endeginous morphins are the narcotics themselves morphine heroin etc. The drug companies are the biggest crooks cartels on the face of the earth.Why is it that when I get access to heroin I stop taking antidepressants major and minor tranquilizes mood stabilisers etc.ect.ect. and I loose weight my type 2 diabities is cured etc.etc. etc. Wake up people the devil is in the details every where in the corrupt medical community political system etc.

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Avatar universal
That's not completely accurate-- Blood tests for serotonin are relatively new, decently pricey, and it's a challenge to find someone to do them. (There's also urine and saliva tests, but they're not known to be accurate) Serotonin reuptake is not the only reason people have depression. In fact, most types of depression are not caused by issues with reuptake inhibitors. (Only one specific kind is, can't currently remember the name)

In fact, if the only issue is a low level of serotonin, there's two simple solutions, eat more whole wheat foods, and take HTP-5 supplements. (And these are not dangerous!) If your problem is a Reuptake problem, then St.John's wart works well.

(In actuality, reuptake inhibitors cause more issues--they affect the rate at which your brain recycles the serotonin compounds. Some people need this, but more often than not, a person's brain will stop creating sufficient amounts of serotonin because it thinks it has enough. That's why people often fluctuate in their depressive moods (even moreso) when taking SSRI's. (or SNRI, NRI's...) Typically it create a downward spiral every 1-3 months until the patient's brain readjusts and creates more serotonin (if it can create enough.)

But yes, there are a cocktail of neurotransmitters, such as... serotonin, GABA, PEA, norepinephrine, epinephrine, and histamine that can cause these issues. There are tests for specific types of depression, which, are very new, and I'd guess insanely expensive.

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Avatar universal
Not as screwed up as you are? Does that mean some of your depression manifested from experiences? Or, do you and your Pdoc think depression is a genetic disorder?
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Avatar universal
I have been reading about the DSM- 5 and it will not include bipolar 3 & 4.
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5820832 tn?1374863991
How much serotonin is too much? How much is too little? What is the average amount of serotonin present in samples of non psychiatric patients within the population? How are samples obtained from brains of depressed members of the population and compared with the non depressed? Who originated the theory that depression was a result of a serotonin imbalance? What role does serotonin play in other areas of the body? How does excess serotonin impact the endocrine system as a whole? How many studies and tests have been done to inarguably answer these questions based on pure measurable untainted scientific data? If blood tests or brain tissue tests for serotonin levels are not performed, assessment of whether or not there is excess or deficiency of serotonin cannot be logically determined.
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5318756 tn?1366876070
Hi Weasly ,  

In response to your question about too much serotonin causing symptoms that were misdiagnosed as anxiety and hypomania , it happened to me.
  
Since approx. 1997 , I have been put onto Prozac , Zoloft , Effexor (snri), Lexapro then Cymbalta (snri).  Each of these seemed to help the severe depression initially , then I developed a range of adverse reactions that were interpreted as a "worsening of my condition" , and doses were increased.  
The psychiatrist I was seeing then supplemented the Lexapro with Epilim (mood stabiliser for mania) , and eventually Largactil then Zyprexa - anti-psychotics. Over these years my life totally fell apart and nothing I did was able to make it better.

I recently started seeing a psychiatrist who recognized serotonin syndrome , and suggested I have a cheek-swab test to see if I had ever been able to metabolize ssri or snri's.  And ,guess what ?   Out of the six genes that metabolize these medications , I have genetic variations in three of them.  So for all the years I  trusted my doctors and took what was recommended , I now find out it was those very meds and a lack of understanding of them by my  doctors that made me so extremely ill that I became a hermit living in a world filled with intolerable pain.

I'm currently coming off the Cymbalta , and am absolutely furious that these doctors totally ****** up the past 16 years of my life.



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480448 tn?1426948538
I would encourage you to start a new thread, as this one is very old, and the older threads tend to get passed up by most. .
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Avatar universal
thanks, this explanation was so helpful
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Avatar universal
I have been on meds and therapy since 2002. Therapy helps with coping skills and general support but it isn't a cure any more than the meds are a cure. Antidepressants may be hard to get off, but they are NOT addictive. To be addictive, it would mean that you had to take more and more to get the same effect. Not addictive. However, you have changed brain chemistry so it is no surprise that when you remove the chemicals it is a shock to your brain and you have negative responses.
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Avatar universal
There is a very good book on grief by Kay Redfield Jamison, called Nothing Was the Same.
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Avatar universal
One thing to be aware of is that with each episode of depression you have, your chance of having another episode increases. Since you have had several episodes it is almost a given that you will have more episodes.
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Avatar universal
Were you getting your lithium level check more frequently in the beginning than every 6 months? When I was on it with every increase and on a schedule I had blood levels checked to make sure that I was in the therapeutic range without becoming toxic. As far as blood tests every six months, I have my glucose and cholesterol checked every six months.
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480448 tn?1426948538
The fundamental problem with "testing" for epinephrine, norepinephrine is that not only is there no easy and straight forward way to do so, but also, MUCH of psychiatry is based primarily on THEORY.  It has never been PROVEN that a chemical imbalance causes depression, and even if it does (which it could), the cause of depression would likely vary from person to person.  This is true of all psychiatric disorders.  There is still so much that the experts don't understand, as the brain is a complex machine....and a lot of factors are thought to affect mental health.

This is why treating mood disorders IS largely trial and error, based on those theories.

I would encourage you to start a new thread, as this one is very old, and the older threads tend to get passed up by most.
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Avatar universal
Hi, just wondering if anyone has had their serotonin, epinefrine and norepinefrine levels tested in connection with SSRI meds?

I know it may not be directly useful because of the re-uptake thing already discussed here. What I'm wondering is whether too much serotonin may present as bipolar or other type of depression, and get mistreated because of this statistical guesswork diagnosing that gets done a lot.

If the problem is actually in the MAO-A gene, monoamine oxidase doesn't work as it's supposed to, and the result is too much sero, epi and norepi. Which, presumably, should be treated with a MAOI (monoamine-oxidase inhibitor), not SSRI (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor). Although I'm not totally clear on this bit yet... might be more complex than that. Anyway, the MAO-A levels can be tested with a PET scan. Since those are expensive, preliminary bloodwork might be a good idea. But I have no idea if this is common practise in the medical field yet.

Also, any practical experience with SNRI's? They're some newer stuff that works on both serotonin and norepinefrine. According to Wikipedia, some types can even affect dopamine re-uptake. The stuff has been on the market for long enough to have actual users out there. Anyone care to share?
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4777519 tn?1359041288
Thanks for the info. I've been suffering from depression/anxiety for years and diag with ADD as an adult. We thought my son had ADHD due to severe bouts of being hyper, crying, picking on sister, etc., but the Dr. doesn't think the stimulant is helping due to him and myself punching, choking each other even though we had this issue before we went to her. His therapist had mentioned Oppositional Defiant Disorder so I have been reading about it and the other personality disorders, but the lines of these overlap so much to me. I do have traits of BPD which may be an inherited dysfunction in the limbic system. Anyway, while reading over those it said may be cause from low serotonin so I'm going to try to get my son to take the Tryptophan (if he will with the ODD-lol)to see if it works. We have to do something because there are no psychiatrists here that take Medicaid. It makes sense. It's weird because I used to take L-Tyrosine because it was supposed to be good for polysystic ovarian disease/insulin resistance.
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Avatar universal
what do you mean you took the test? The serotonin test is to check for tumors? What test did you take?
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1110049 tn?1409402144
This post is very old.  Started in 2008.  How come it is here again? Possibly better to start a new thread.  All interesting but technical stuff!!
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Avatar universal
bullsh*t what you saying, maybe that's what doctors say following 'guidelines of best practice' but since 95% serotonin is in the bowels they should concentrate on bowel disorders, someone is trying to be smarter than he is and it doesn't work or they have purpose to pretend stupid. Maybe thats the effect if government does not invest in science
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