Electrolysis Scars

Dear Doctor,

Last April, I had an electrolysis treatment by my daughter who had just completed electrolysis school. After the treatment, I had one month of deep scabs. These scabs turned into red dots, then dark spots. There was also the sudden appearance of wrinkles at the corners of my mouth. I kept hoping that this would get better but within four months of the treatment, the dark spots worsened into what looks like a mustache on my upper lip. By the fifth month, the entire area suddenly became cracked and wrinkled. It is also dry and itchy. There is also what looks like one white freckle as well. The mustache stain faded some over the winter but I am terrified it will return.

Can you tell me what happened to my skin and, if possible, recommend any products (brand names) I might use?

Just sign me,
Waiting in the Dark

[Bhupinder Kaur, MD]

Hello,
The lesion that you have described sounds like a scar with post inflammatory hyperpigmentation. The treatment for post inflammatory hyperpigmentation includes various skin creams like hydroquinone, azelaic acid, corticosteroids, tretinoin cream and laser treatment.Apply hydroquinone cream on this scar and it should go away in a few days to months.If it still persists then you can go in for laser treatment, Chemical peeling or microdermabrasion. Avoid picking, harsh scrubbing, and abrasive treatments unless prescribed by a dermatologist during this period.

Hope it helps.Take care and pls do keep me posted on how you are doing or if you have any additional doubts. Kind regards.

[scarface457]

Thank you kindd,
I appreciate the info on the name for the discolouration of my skin as well as your advice on the names of possible treatments. I have heard that with hydroquinone that there is a risk of further darkening of my skin.Since I don't know in what instance that could happen, I'm holding off. I've also heard that these acid creams serve to thin the skin out, which might worsen the wrinkles?  Also I heard that tretinoin could cause hair loss, which would be terribly upsetting in light of my loss facially. Laser, I think would be out of the question because my skin is tan in colour. For now I am avoiding the sun, using a hat and (unfortunately carcinogenic) sun block. Avoiding the sun is a huge inconvenience in that it means covering my face while I'm in the car on a sunny day, not washing the dishes in the daytime because the sink is in front of a window. Not going jogging in the morning, or riding my bike in the daytime, not swimming in a lake and worrying at the bus stop or a walk to the grocery store... My life has become very restricted in my efforts not to look like a ruined bill board but I feel that living with what looks like a mustache scribbled on my face is worse. I can't wear any makeup to cover the pigmentation because it only emphasizes the weird wrinkling around my mouth.

I will be experimenting with different kinds of makeup and sun block and will let you know which are the most effective. If all my efforts to control the pigmentation fail, I may try dermamelan. Have you heard of this product? Do you think it may worsen my problem?

Thank you so much for your response and your kind regards. They mean a lot to me at this time in that I've felt quite alone in this struggle.
P.S. Any idea what the weird wrinkling could be?
Thank you once again

[Bhupinder Kaur, MD]

Hello,
Since you are saying that the area has become dry,itchy and wrinkled,so the possibility of eczema is there. It is a form of chronic dermatitis (rash).Allergic reaction is one of the important causes of eczema.

Wash the areas several times with fresh water. Do not use any cosmetic products at the sites. You can apply some calamine lotion at the rash as it will help in soothing the skin. You can take some OTC oral antihistamine medications like Benadryl or Claritin and see if it helps.

For mild-moderate eczema a weak steroid may be used (e.g. hydrocortisone as dermacort), whilst more severe cases require a higher-potency steroid (e.g. clobetasol propionate, fluocinonide).

Eczema can be exacerbated by dryness of the skin. Use good quality moisturizers to prevent moisture loss from the skin.

If still the symptoms do not improve then pls get a clinical examination done by a dermatologist.
Hope it helps.Take care and pls do keep me posted on how you are doing or if you have any additional doubts.Kind regards.

[scarface457]

Hi Kindd, Thank you soo much for your quick response! I have seen these "wrinkles" on one other individual who was scarred by electrolysis. I know it's hard to judge without seeing me, so here is a brief but very specific description. It looks like ridges and grooves at the corners of my mouth almost in a plaid design. There is one short vertical line almost as high as my nostril. There is a short vertical line on one side of my upper lip extending right down to the lip. I also have one pock mark under my nose. The skin texture looks dry and parched with many fine lines that don't extend all the way down to my lip. All of this is on the area that was worked on where the skin is also pigmented. The moisturizer, as you suggested, stops the itchyness. The wrinkles however remain and could be getting worse in that I am begining to see more lines extending to my upper lip on the other side. I fear these wrinkles and grooves could be collagen loss resulting from the depth of the injury to my skin??? My skin seems to have lost it's elasticity and ability to self moisturize in that area. This wrinkling happened very suddenly (to my panicky horror) within a two week time frame in the  fourth month after the electrolysis treatment. The rest of my face is free of wrinkles (no brackets, no crows feet and also, no dry skin) and I had no sign of wrinkles any where beforehand. I've been applying my makeup on the bus in a very closely held hand mirror for years and noticed no gradual onset of lines on my face, let alone anything this drastic and so as you can imagine, I was quite freaked out by this. Could electrolysis gone wrong cause sudden collagen loss or premature aging in the area worked on? What is this weird and sudden wrinkling called and do you think skin can heal itself with proper care?
I'm in a bit of a dilemma in that when I've tried to cover the pigmentation with makeup, the grooves and ridges look much much worse. If you have the chance, I'd much appreciate your opinion.
I have been having difficulty finding a family doctor as there is a shortage where I am from and I've therefore been having  trouble getting a referral. Until then it has been a huge weight off my shoulders to be able to communicate with you and my skin does feel better since I started moisturizing. Thank you once again for your advice, opinion and your kind regards.

[Bhupinder Kaur, MD]

Hello,
You have explained the skin lesions very well.After reading your post, I feel that the lesion that you are having is due to scarring and pitting of the skin which is a rare side effect of electrolysis and occurs due to carelessly or rapidly done electrolysis or due to the sensitiveness of the skin to electrolysis.

Unfortunately for this type of scarring or pitting, there is no medical cream as such which can treat it but surgical excision by a good plastic surgeon and laser resurfacing have given promising results.I would therefore recommend these two.All the advertised creams which claim to treat it are an eye wash and although tough for you,but the condition can be treated only from a plastic surgeon or a cosmetologist/dermatologist.Pls consult them for these wrinkles.

I hope it helps.Take care and pls do keep me posted on how you are doing or if you have any additional queries.Kind regards.

[scarface457]

Dear Kindd,
Thank you for the information, suggestions and your kind concern. At this time I am going to see how much I can accomplish without surgery, by keeping my skin out of the sun and or at least protected by sun block. I will look into the cost of these treatments later on. So far I've had some success using a primer under a concealer to minimize the wrinkling and pigmentation. It is very inconvenient though in that I have to keep washing it off to apply sun block every two  hours in order to keep the sun block effective. Sigh
Thank you once again

[ivmi]

hello!
I had electrolisys on my eyebrows, and I have litle dots scars....it is hiperpigmented a little and it looks like small sunken scars...is there any posssibility that this will resolve? (the electrolysis was made  two and half months since now...maybe i can post a picture... http://i41.tinypic.com/ftzt03.jpg (copy this where is written your present adress

[Hindsight123]

I wanted to write to you to let you know that I like yourself am left with post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation from electrolysis....Dont know if it was over treatment with too high settings or just my own bodies reaction.  It has totally broken my self confidence and wish how I could turn back the clock.  I have searched the internet high and low to find information on post inflammatory information from electroloysis and was suprised to find very little.  I am a Fitzpatrick skin type II so it is apparently very rare for this skin type to have this sort of reaction...but I did.  I have been to a dermatologist who prescribed Tri-luma which I have been using for a month with encouraging results.  I recently spoke to a cosmetic therapist who told me to stop using it immediately as it changes your DNA and makes hyper pigmentation worse so I am devastated.  I like you am petrified of getting in the smallest bit of sunshine and having to apply sunscreen all day is very impractical.  What skin type are you?  Have you tried any skin lightening creams?  I am researching one at the moment called Meladerm (more natural ingredients and no Hydroquinone).  If you would like to converse let me know.  I am sorry for your experience...just want you to know that you are not alone.  

[scarface457]

Dear Hindsight123,
I did see a plastic surgeon who at one time did electrolysis. He and another electrolysist feel that the electrolycist had the power up too high causing the scabbing and that she may have been practicising with improper insertions. She herself mentionned improper insertions as a possible cause. The Dr. recommended Dermamelan, which is a very expensive skin treatment after which there is maintenance with another cream by the same company. The cream is approximately $1000.00. The plastic surgeon said that I would most likely suffer a return of the scar every summer.

I have been having trouble getting a dermatologist to treat me in that the two that I saw were told that this happened to me as a result of an electrolysis treatment and seemingly do not want to create any documentation from their offices. The first one stated that he did not specialize in scars and said that I should get a referral to a certain dermatologist from my GP's office, refusing to refer me himself. He also refused to recommend a moisturizer. After the GP referred me to the second dermatologist mentionned by the first one, I had no better luck. The dermatologist described what I had as post inflammatory pigmentation initially. But as soon as he heard that electrolysis was what caused it, he changed his diagnosis to "melasma" which is a non injury cause of hyperpigmentation that is usually hormone related and associated with a woman's reproductive years. He attributed the strange indentations/wrinkling/sunken scars to the mechanical movement of my mouth (like a smoker who gets lines around their mouth from the repeated movement), and insisted that none of the symptoms I am complaining of are caused by the electrolysis. The thing is, I also have sunken scars around my eyebrows where she did some work and I don't smoke. Nor are the lines around my mouth in a location where a smoker would have them.He also advised that all of the treatments for my problem (hydroquinone...) are carcinogenic and bear a risk of darkening the scar, and that the only other alternative would be laser which is inappropriate because I have tanned coloured skin. When I asked him to recommend a sun block, he said that he has none. He told me to ask the pharmacist for a good sun block and bleaching cream. On my way out of the office I saw a whole wall of La Roche Pose sunblock. He lied. He also said that the risk with Dermamelan is that the pigmentation could get worse.
Because these dermatologists won't so much as recommend a sun block or a moisturizer let alone a treatment or a referral to someone who is willing to diagnose and treat my skin, I am still in the dark as to what works and what won't work.
It seems to me from what I've read, that people who use these bleaching creams on darker scars are happy with the results. After the scar has lightened however, they complain that the creams have the opposite effect of darkening the scar to a shade worse than when they started.

The various relatives of AHA s (acid creams) seem to have the effect of thinning the skin out. I am told by doctors that thin skin has a tendency to wrinkle and that the reason why Black people's skin takes longer to age is because their skin is thicker ( the plastic surgeon told me this).

I am currently wearing a hat that covers most of my face, wearing Tisilc (a sun block that got a good write up on skindeep) and living a very restricted life in terms of avoiding the sun.

It probably isn't what you want to hear, but these treatments seem too scary to me.

I think that if I can fade the scars enough by staying out of the sun, hopefully to the point of nonexistance, eventually they won't come back. In my experience with pimple scars, as long there is a tiny bit of pigmentation, the sun will darken it. But if I can stay out of the sun long enough for it to fade completely, it won't come back. My problem is that the winter wasn't long enough for it fade completely.
So at the moment, I'm terrified of the sun and every time I blow my nose from summer allergies, I'm putting more sunblock on and worrying that my skin hasn't had a chance to absorb it. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

I met a woman whose doctor insisted that a scar she had from an operation on her abdomen was permanent. She kept her tummy covered and the scar disappeared. I'm considering going to Alaska haha or wearing a Hijab lol (I'm not Muslim). I'm also looking into natural treatments like yogourt and lemon juice or witch hazel to fade the pigmentation. I'll let you know. I also use Vitamin E cream and take Silica in gel form everyday.
I hear your pain. We're in this together. Try covering the pigmentation with skintrue by annabelle. But wait at least 20 minutes after applying the sunblock to put it on. Also, use a brush to put it on. It covers the pigmentation fairly well and doesn't seem to emphasize the sunkenness of the scars as much as other coverups. Thanks for mentioning Meladerm. I'll see if anyone has tried it on Realself. I'm on there too as scarface.
Because that dermatologist's first interest seemed to be to avoid getting involved, I'm not sure if he was being truthful about dermamelan. The plastic surgeon who recommended it has always been very honest. So I'm not ready to give up on that as a possible treatment yet. I'll keep you posted. And yes I would like to converse. Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone - much appreciated.
Take care and don't do anything desperate re: trying treatments out without fully researching it.

[Hindsight123]

Thank you for taking the time to reply sf.  I found a few messages posted on (EDS) website regarding dermal hyperpigmentation.  A member who had hp from electrolysis, IPL and acne has posted information regarding her personal search and application of treatments.  

She (Dips18) talks about taking high doses of vitamin C and crystals/tablets called MSM to help the skin heal from the inside out (esp for dermal hp).  So I have stocked up on those and will take increased daily doses.  All natural and beneficial too so I have nothing to lose in trying, and everything to gain including additional support for the body.  

Also, with summer near for you you may be interested in a product called Heliocare which she only used during the summer months.  It helps block the suns harmful rays but they recommend not taking over the long term, but I will definately try over the summer.  

Also, I have been told that sunscreen with zinc is the best so I have just bought a product called invisible zinc (a 4 hr waterproof 30+ sunblock and a tinted 3 in 1 (moisturiser, mineral makeup & block).  Will let you know how I get on.

Check out the link below.  

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=26450&highlight=dermal+electrolysis+msm

ps; my hp consists of small dots where each hair follicle was entered and zapped.  I am assuming that it is dermal as thats where the hair root is.  Is this the sort of hp you have?  

Best wishes
HS

[Juzzy888]

I have just had electrolysis and there are pin head scars. Will these scars fade or do I need to apply cream or something on them straight away. I am still in the middle of treatment so I just wanted to know if I could leave the scars for another month or so and then apply cream or something or do the scars need to be attended to immediately. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :)

[scarface457]

Dear Juzzy 888,
Some electrolysists cause scabs. These scabs, however, should fall off by the end of the day, leaving you looking great. Sometimes the skin looks a bit pink after a treatment but this disappears within an hour or two. Anything more extensive and I would suggest changing electrolysists. The best electrolysists use a Weiss microscope as opposed to a magnifying glass. I never had any scabbing after I started using electrolysists who use that. The microscope improves their visibility increasing the accuracy of their insertion.

Regarding your red dots; red dots could turn into darker dots with sunlight. My hyperpigmentation started out as red dots. Had I known better, when I had these red dots, I would have used polysporin, sun block and stayed out of the sun and while you're at it, stay away from that electroysist. You are not supposed to be getting red dots after an electrolysis treatment.