high FBG and normal Bed time sugar levels

I am diabetic since 1998, at the time I discovered that I am diabetic the blood level was 450 mg/dl and ketone bodies were +4 out of 5. I managed to lower it within one week with tablets to 130 mg/dl and adopting 0 carb intake, I was obese (160 kg), I lost weight and brought my weight down to 95 kg within 6 months by diet only the famous 0 carb diet and got my hypertension from 160/110 to 110/70 (mm Hg).

I kept measuring Fbg and Blood pressure and always found them at 75 mg/dl for fbg and 110/70 for blood tension. till I was conveinced that my pancreas was regenerated and I returned cautiously to normal food and I gained weight.

Last year I experienced polyurea and I consulted my Doctor who thought that it is related to my prostate since I am already 58 yrs.

I checked  my urine sugar before 6 weeks and found 3% sugar excreted in urine ( according to Roche TM urine sugar test stripes. and my FBG 330 mg/dl. my blood pressure 160/110 mg/dl

I went to my Doctor and gave me glucophage and I returned to my previous diet and I have a 0 urine sugar level blood pressure 140 /93 mmHg . but my Fbg becomes highest in the morning and lowest at bed time 260 FBG morning and 180 mg/dl at bed time. ( I am on 0 carb diet and I lost so far 10 kgs of my weight.

Would you please explain to me why my Fbg is high and bedtime is normal

thanks

roger jansbick

I

[WaveRider]

Roger, you left out a few points.

Testing: If 180 mg/dl resulted 2-4 hours after your last meal this would be considered normal, but at the high water mark. Prior or after these times false positive test results may occur. When did you last eat vs when you tested?

Food: Are you snacking after your last meal? or before bedtime? Are you waking in the middle of the night and having a snack, or drinking something other than water?

Weight: You have not told us your current weight. What is it?

Metformin (glucophage): Can you tell us your dose and when/time you take your medication? You may be taking your medication to early or need it modified to compensate for the early morning rise.

Have you discussed your symptoms lately with your doctor?

All the above questions play an important role in determining your glucose irregularity. If you can provide us honest answers it will equip us better to hopefully answer you question.

[roger77s]

hi

I am filling up gaps I left in my original mail
Testing: yesterday I tested my Blood sugar 5 times and resules were as follows:

fasting at 11 a.m ( fasting for 9 hours anh having only one cup of coffe at 9 a.m sweetened by saccharine tablet only) the level was 260 mg/dl
retested after lunch directly and was 169 mg/dl. retested again after supper ( 2 hrs after supper) the level was 161 mg/dl. (N.b : I took 1 tablet of glucophage 500 mg at 3 p.m after lunch.
today I measured FBG at 8 a.m (fasting for 7hours without drinking coffee) the level is 213 mg/dl.

I compare these results with those I used to get before 3 weeks I have a drop of sugar level as follows : morning FBG was 330 mg/dl  before 3 weeks vs 213 mg/dl today and 226 random at 7 p.m before 3 weeks vs 161 mg/dl yesterday.

Food: I snack after my last meal often , when I feel hungry I take 2-3 cucmbers or 5 olives to fight hunger. but I drink a lot of tea and coffee also rose-hip all sweetend by saccharine also I drink Diet-cola. But I don't snack when waking at night.

Weight:  I suffer from obesity since childhood , I made several diets in my life the best was when I brought my weigt from 110 kgsto 57 kgs in 1970,(in 5 months) then I needed to make a diet after every  summer vacation that I used to spend with my parents where I usually gain 30 kgs during vacation and lose them within 3 months after vacation and this continued over 5 years ,  then It became difficult to follow any diet because of lengthy working hours and marriage and not excercising. then followed Doctor Atkins ( at th age of 47 )which brought my weight from 160 kgs down to 95 kgs . Thanks good I am loosing weight again, my weight before 3 weeks was 130 kgs and now I am 120 kgs. And I am losing weight fast even at my actual age (58 yrs)
N.B ( till end of 2005 I used to smoke 30 cigarettes a day, I quit smoking at 2005, and this could be an additional reason why I gained weight after 2005).


Metaformin ( glucophage) 500 mg : my doctor prescribed 2 tablets daily one during daytime, the other 12 hours later, but honestly I don't take it regularly since I am afraid of having complications since I suffered from a collapse due to ulcer and I am afraid of exciting my stomach which became sensetive to medicine oral intake. I used 25 tablets in 3 weeks instead of 44 I should have taken during this period.

Yes I have discussed these symptoms with my doctor, but in this part of the world doctors act as robots as if they read from text books and apply it on us as being laboratory animals ( trial and error system). he gave me a long list of analysis for kidney fuction, electrolytes and lipid profile which all gave normal results except for
cholestrol 269 mg/dl and triglycerides 230 mg/dl and normal HDL and LDL. so I decided to return to my strict diet  and re-testing after one month and if I fail to lower it I'll take any medication that might be necessary. Because I feel that thru diet I can achieve a lot of things as I succeded in lowering  my blood pressure.

I hope that these answers would help you to better understand my case.And enable you to help me.


Thanks

Roger

[WaveRider]

Much better understanding. Don't know your acronym DB. One thing you should know about fasting is fasting means no nothing for 8-10 hours; no food and no colored liquids. Clear liquids is OK. Colored liquids - coffee, tea, colas - will throw off your test results. Olives count as food. And seven hours is cheating.

Food: Your body is adjusting to your up/down weight and takes time to normalize. Instead of eating huge meals try to eat more balanced smaller portions and spread them apart through the day to prevent snacking. This helps to stabilize glucose levels. Google diabetic nutrition for good foods and bad foods.

Metformin: Has to be taken with food or it will cause gastric issues - stomach pain, bloating, heartburn, gas to name few. If these symptoms continue you may need to stop Metformin and use another oral medication as listed here http://www.*************.com/diabetes/find-drug.html .  "my doctor prescribed 2 tablets daily one during daytime, the other 12 hours later," Perhaps one at breakfast and the other at dinner/supper. Taking one at 3pm may be too late in the day.

Doctor: If you're unsatisfied with your current doctor go find one that will listen you. The specialist for diabetes is called an Endocrinologst. I would also get your pancreas tested for insulin production. Here's a quick self Thyroid test http://thyroid.about.com/cs/testsforthyroid/a/selftest.htm

Hope this helps.

[WaveRider]

I see MedHelp is blocking web links from appearing in a thread. Google using the words diabetic medication. The first hit is ************* *******. It list the most common drugs.

[roger77s]

Thanks for your prompt answers, all points mentioned above will be taken into consideration, but I hoped that you will comment on Sugar levels I sent to you on 17th, what do they signify.

I don't quite understand the adjustment of my body to up/down weight, can I understand here that my diet is depriving my body from energy so body burn excess sugar in the morning to ensure or avoid a sharp drop in glucose level, since once on this strict diet I have my fingers colder than usual and remains so till i take my meal at that point only my fingers regain normal temperature. ( otherwise how do I lose weight that fast if my body metabolism doesn't metabolise stored lipids into glucose for energy consumption)

A final question please, I experience a very painful thigh muscle cramp 2 times a year at least. The orthopedic told me that it is related to bis-verganitis ??? is it related to diabetes or else!! kindly comment on this ( it is a seizure like thing, that remains from 2 to 8 minutes and is not related  to any effort or season of the year. And the pain makes me cry and shout worse than a delivering woman in labour because of untolerable pain.

I am writting to you from Amman jordan and it is 4 a.m here (9 p.m In USA-eastern time) and send to you Xmas greetings from terra santa.

I will take your advises as guidelines when I consult my Doctors to ensure that I am on right tract.

Thanks indeed and my best personal regards.


Roger

[WaveRider]

In my previous thread, I attempted to explain to you that eating and drinking colored liquids during your fasting period will bring about inaccurate results. This includes sporadic eating times. And testing 7 hours into a fast does not qualify either. You must adhere to the fasting timetable while NOT consuming anything except clear liquids, like water. Then and only then should you test fasting (prandial) glucose. Two to fours after a meal (postprandial) will give you an insight on your foods and the glucose they present to your body. If your test postprandial is >180 mg/dl reduce the amount or eliminate the type of food(s) raising your glucose levels from your diet.

Your body needs to be normal in order to behave normal. Currently it’s trying to adjust to your sporadic weight and unusual eating behavior. Until you normalize your lifestyle your body will not respond accordingly. Eat correctly, in moderation, and eat at the same times each day. If you can maintain a steady lifestyle for two weeks, test your glucose then. These results will provide a better look (lack of words)  into what your body is doing. Others may differ but this is what I recommend until you see your doctor. Since I do not have your medical records or history to consult, he/she may have other choices.

Tea has caffeine as does soda (cola). Too much caffeine is not good. Learn to drink and like what is natural, water. Or find non-caffeinated tea and soda to drink. Keep in mind soda has carbs as does tea. Both will spike glucose levels. Try eliminating the saccharine too. Your body may not be able to digest it properly. Succralose (Splenda) is the other sugar substitute alternative that’s made from sugar but not digested. Ie; it does not stay in your body.

As far as your leg cramps, that can be from many sources – dehydration, fluid shifting, low calcium, low magnesium, low potassium, and so on. Testing by a doctor will help. Drink more water, walk more but not strenuous. Obesity brings about lethargy, inactiveness. These are not good lifestyles. Be healthy, live well, thrive.
And Xmas greetings to you too.

[roger77s]

hi
now, thanks to your guideness, I am equipped with full set of instructions to start a new lifestyle , and I've decided to give my body a chance to develop own strategies for one month, prior to visiting my doctors ( I have an excellent health care insurance policy), the idea is  psychologically speaking, I feel that any effort I make to develop my own body defenses, makes me adhere to it and improve it further, whereas submitting to pills and medication early makes me feel weak and in abnormal situation, add to that my sensetive stomach that gives me hard time and pain when I go bed if I take any pill even vitamines and minerals, as it happened when I took calcium supplement pills, even potassium salt when I took it to replace sodium chloride to reduce my blood pressure and as a potassium source gave me also stomach pain.

Now I am going to start a new lifestyle and I'll keep you informed of the development,

thanks for every thing


roger

[Super_sally888]

HI,

I was following your discussion with waverider, who has given you very good advice.

I think given your very high blood sugar levels that you do need to work closely with a good doctor (yes, change doctors), because if your body isn't making enough insulin and if the metformin isn't working (when you actually take it properly - by not taking it properly you are not giving it a chance to work - also the gastric effects of metformin, if you have them, usually reduce over time when your body gets used to it) then you would need to change meds.  

Your new doctor also needs to make sure you get referred to an experienced and a qualified dietician.

Your target blood sugars are usually < 105 fasting and < 140 2 hours after eating.  You are well above these and your blood sugar levels are very bad for your body.

As you acknowledge you need to have low carb diet.  This means your diet is going to be based on vegetables, healthy proteins, and healthy fats.  Fruit would be very limited and only to fruits that are not high sugar.  I think things like apples are generally ok.  Mango, pineapple and the like are not. Small amounts of whole grains may also be ok, like steel cut oatmeal, brown rice, etc.  You need not only to have a low carb diet, but you should have a very nutritious diet.  Artificial sweeteners in excess are not a good idea.  Better take your drinks unsweetened.

Don't worry about trying to lose weight fast.  Your body is under enough stress as it is.  You will lose the weight if you are eating correctly and exercising.

You didn't mention how exercise fits into the picture.  At least get walking for 30 minutes a day.  Or to control blood sugars better if you can do it, 30 minutes twice a day.  More vigorous exercise is good, but you'd have to build up to it gradually if you are not already exercising.

A coach told me that I should eat 6 times a day.  This is essentially every three hours.  But each meal will be only the amount of food that would fit into a clenched fist, or onto a small side (bread) plate.  (of course more if you're adding green salads, which you should be).  That meal should have contain fat, protein and carb, and as many different coloured foods (naturally coloured) as reasonable.  (A sample meal could be: 1/2 cup brown rice, 1/4 cup tuna, tomato, red pepper and cucumber salad, with olive oil dressing and grated cheese dressing).

Hope this helps further.  Best wishes.

[roger77s]

hi

As I explained earlier in earlier threads, I am trying to lower my blood sugsr levels using natural means, and I succeed in bringing it down to 160 mg after meals, I am planning to change doctors in 10 days, I am welling to see the responsiveness of my body to my new diet.
What astonishes me most that when I adopted Dr.Atkins diet ( which is a zero carb diet) in 1998 for the first time , I was able to lower my FBG from 450 mg/dl to 130 in just 1 week, the second week I was @ 110, then I maintained a steady level  around 80 mg/dl for many years after that till Dec. 2005.

In Dec.2005, I collapsed and examined at the hospital, I was heavy smoker and I drink more than 500 ml of turkish coffee at that time, I was diagnosed as having a big ulcer in the stomach near the duodenal side and it was a bleeding one. and I was put on quadriple therapy and I quit smoking at that time and was told to ease my diet or my feeding habits.

Along with quitting smoking and easing the diet I gained weight slowly while monitoring my FBG which remained normal till mid 2007, after which I stopped monitoring with the false impression that my Pancreatic cells regenerated and I eased further my diet, to help my wife which was cooking for me separately and I started to eat like other members of family even eating sweets -moderately- on occasions and allowing myself to take 150-200 g of bread, and eating rice 2 helps on occasions also, but I was mistaken because I developed polyurea and strangely I never felt thirsty. Which confused me and when I went for medical consultation in October 2008, The Doctor believed that it could be my prostate. And I planned these tests for the new year vacation.

As a precaution I ran a urine sugar test and blood glucose tests and for my great surprise both were high. I managed to get rid of my urine glucose within days, but my glucose in blood  is taking longer , it is getting lower but at lower rate  and I am now at 160 mg for my random tests I feel I am close to normal, Developing a strategy is more important to me. Because the proper Dietary system on which I should adhere before going to see the endocrinologist who will bring down the sugar using medication without allowing me to choose proper dietary system and confusing me with dietary system which is difficult to follow.

I am not exercising, because I suffer from cramps in thigh and foot, but I will resume exercising once my weight gets lower further.

I am going to divide meals as you suggested and I'll keep you informed, I will make the recipe above but I am going to omit rice, because I've already developed phobia towards all carbs.

I would like you to ask your coach, if possible about  the cramps I suffer from in my thigh , foot even my fingers are only related to dehydration or to other reasons and what he advises.

Thanks Sally for your advice and caring.

Best regards
Merry christmas

Roger

[Super_sally888]

Hi Roger,

cramps are difficult to explain and can have many causes, not always able to be determined.

Would make sure you are not dehydrated.  This is very important.  

Cramps can also come from electrolyte imbalance.  This can be checked by blood test, but blood test will not detect subtle imbalance.  Best bet is balanced diet, regular amount of salt and a good multivitamin/mineral once a day.

Another cause of cramping is lack of muscle condition.  This is only helped by exercise.  I also get muscle cramping and don't know why.  But I found when I first started swimming I would get cramping within several minutes of starting.  Over time as I kept persisting the cramping would occur later and later.

Cramping can also be caused  by tight muscle or previous old injury, which affects the muscle.  Best treatment is gentle stretching and then conditioning exercise.

This is not really an answer, but should be a reassurance that you can work around th cramping.  When the cramping starts, stop and gently stretch the muscle til the cramping stops.  Then keep going.  You can also try massage to help.

Good luck for getting and staying healthy. :)

Merry Christmas.

[Super_sally888]

Oh, also try banana before you exercise.  Potassium in banana is also good for preventing muscle cramp.

Banana has carb, but if you take one before you exercise the carb will be burnt in exercise.  And banana is very nutritious.

Some people also swear by pickel juice (yes, the one that comes from the gherkin)...  but would have to see what works for you...

Again best bet would be start exercising gradually, but very frequently. You are not so heavy that you can't already start - particularly walking, cycling, swimming, etc.  If you can have gym, then get a trainer to teach you how to do weight training properly....  this will also help muscle conditioning...

Best wishes

[roger77s]

hi

Thanks for your comments, my electrolytes are in perfect balance, I've started exercising from today for 30 minutes and I hope tomorrow I will be able to make 30 minutes in the evening as well, I feel a bit relaxed because my diet is working beautifully (finally), my FBG my main concern is getting lower and lower every day , even it had not reached the normal level but I am heading towards it in steady steps, the glucophage doesn't pose stomach problems since I take it in the middle of meals.

I still have worries about my leg muscles which don't cause problems during daytime, but still cause worries me while in bed, where i  avoid cramps by turning and changing positions in bed , but my legs makes invoulentary  stretches (perhaps to recompansate for lack of exercises,

I take vitamin B as Neurobion, and I hope that in few days I'll feel the changes and improvements

thanks and best wishes

Roger