Do I need to Remove my Gall Bladder?

I am  a 25 year old female.  I have been having right side abdominal pain for about 1-2 months.  It just recently got bad a few weeks ago when I ate out with my boyfriend.  Immediately after eating chicken wings I was doubled over in pain.  I didn't go to the hospital, and the pain eventually went away.  The following days I noticed the pain was there in a constant form.  It wasn't as bad as the attack I had, but it hurt.  This past Monday I saw my doctor about the pain.  He suggested Gall stones & scheduled an ultrasound.  The ultrasound was schedlued for Friday, but Wednesday my pain became unbearable again after I ate.  I went to the ER and they did an ultrasound.  They found nothing.  The doctor gave me some Percocet for the pain and suggested a Hidascan to monitor the activity of the Gall bladder.  I went to the Hidascan Friday and the results are not yet in to my doctor.  Yesterday morning I woke up in unbearable pain with a severe headache, and vomiting.  I went to the ER and was told they could do nothing for me until the Hidascan came back.  I was given a RX for the pain and nausea, and it is working so far today.  My question is,if the Hidascan shows nothing,which it may because the Lab worker doing the test said it looked normal.  If the test shows nothing, what could the pain be from, and should I be doing anything differently other than watching the fat in take in my diet?

[Nanny]

If all the testing for your gallbladder comes back negative I would suggest that you ask your doctor to take a close look at your pancreas and order bloodwork to check your amylase and lipase levels.  These are also symtoms (symptoms) of pancreatitis.

[INALOTOFPAIN]

....................Removing your gallbladder has not been sufficiently documented as the real cause of abdominal pain, regardless of the test results, I would sincerely leave that as my "final option"...................

[littlejen02]

PLEASE!!! PLEASE DON'T buy into the Liver Flush idea.
If you're feeling good from it, it is more or less a placebo effect than anything or a "detox" high because you see what you think are "results".  Please read below.
Here's an article that explains scientifically what you're actually doing, it was first brought to attention by Hulda Clark
( whom is not a doctor, and has actually been charged and arrested many times for practicing without a license ) :







                    Hulda Clark's Liver Flush

                      




"It was about the size of a golf ball!!! I was teasing
her that her liver wasn't even as big as these
HUGE things coming out of her!" [2]


        No this isn't an exerpt from the film
"Aliens",
this is an actual testemonial to another procedure
practiced by Hulda Regehr Clark, the "Liver Flush".
        
        According to Clark: "For many persons,
including
children, the biliary tubing is choked with
gallstones. Some develop allergies or hives but some
have no symptoms.  No stomach infection such as ulcers
or intestinal bloating can be cured
permanently without removing these gallstones from the
liver." [1]

        The procedure goes as follows:
        The patient must first do a regular "zapping"
the
week before doing the cleanse, using Hulda Clark's
patented "Zapper" to rid the body of parasites which,
according to Clark, can stop your urinary tract, and
kidney from working properly during the cleanse.
        A mixture of epsom salts and water is taken at
6pm,
and 8pm intervals.  At 10pm, the patient must consume
1/2 cup of olive oil, and 2/3 cup of grapefruit juice,
then immediately lie down, and if the patient is
having problems sleeping, then they must also take 4
capsules of the amino acid L-Ornithine to help with
insomnia.      
        Upon waking, the patient must take another
dose of
epsom salts with water, and then retired back to bed.
Two hours later, they must consume the last dose of
the epsom salt mixture and this finishes the
procedure.
        After taking all of this in, the patient will
now
make numerous trips to the washroom to expel the
waste.
The procedure must be repeated once a week until 2000
stones are counted in total from the first bowel
movement, to the last.

        
        To view the results of these gallbladder/liver
flushes, along with complete instructions from Hulda
Clark herself,  you can go to:

http://www.drclark.net/info/liver.htm

        In truth, real gallstones are faceted
polyhedra in
shape (multiple faced polygons), almost like a rough
stone, or else shaped like mulberries. What you'll get
from the recipe are perfect gelatanoid
spheres.
        One of my correspondents describes a friend
who saved the spheres and displayed them to his
friends,
quoted as finding as many as 3000 stones in a sitting.
        Real gallstones would also cause alot of pain
when
passed through the cystic and common bile ducts.
If the patient were to pass up to 3000 stones, they
would be in chronic pain for some time.
         Gallstones also sink in water. (As an autopsy
pathologist, I'm very familiar with this.) The
"gallstones" you'll produce from this recipe will
float, as Hulda Regehr Clark points out "..gallstones
float because of the cholesterol inside."[1]

        If you know a little basic chemistry, you'll
realize
what is happening. The Epsom salts are magnesium
sulfate, and the grapefruit contains some complex
carbohydrates. When these slosh around in the stomch
and small intestine, they'll form a tough film which
will encase drops of olive oil. This will produce some
yellowish balls which will infact float in the toilet,
though these are not gallstones.
                Some of the patients goe as far to
even claim that
along with the "stones", parasites are also being
removed, as one patient is quoted as saying:

"...but the weirdest of it is something that looks
somewhat like a large white lima bean, sort of smooth
on one side and the other side....well, it looks
almost like it was once, ALIVE." [2]
        
        The quote at the beginning of this report is
from a
mother who suspected her 10 year old daughter of
having a gallstone problem, and used the liver flush
on
her, and was "disappointed that my daughter was
vomiting the mixture."[2]

        As well, patients are told that there is no
need for
gallbladder removal because instead you can use this
cleanse to rid the body of all stones which will cause
your gallbladder and liver to function properly.
        This is a sad case, as users of the yahoo
bulletin
board promoting these cleanses are cancelling their
appointments with surgeons to opt for the cleanse
instead.

        Science aside, Hulda Regehr Clark, the author
of the
books "The Cure for all Cancers" and "The Cure For
HIV/AIDS" promotes this.
Since she claims to have both a doctorate in
naturopathy and a Ph.D. in
something (the latter implying having done substantial
original lab
research), one would think she would have made an
experiment with a real gallstone and discovered that
it sinks. She calls gallstones "such small stones"
though they're obviously 7-10 mm across. She thinks
the stones she displayed formed in the liver and
"rolled" into the gallbladder which is false. She says
gallstones "can be of any color" which is a hoot. She
also claims that the major cause of gallstones is
wearing shoes.

        If you want to believe Hulda Clark or the
other
countless naturopath's who are recommending this, that
is your business. If you try the purge, please chew
your grapefruit up thoroughly.
Otherwise, you're asking for a gastic bezoar and a
trip to the endoscopist to remove the obstruction.


Or you could just stop wearing shoes.


References :

1. "The Cure for all Diseases": Copyright 1995 by
Hulda Regehr Clark, Ph.D., N.D. All rights reserved.

2. Gallstone Support Group -
"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones-testimonials/messages"

[susanrdh]

Hi,

   I too have had Abdominal pain as well as much nausea for the past number of weeks.   Actually, I've had nauseousness for a long while though as well as many other symptoms related to gall bladder disease.   Last Thursday I had an ultrasound that was negative and my GI Dr. prescribed an anti-nausea med for me but has not been of any help.   After talking to him on Friday, he stated he is going to treat this as an ulcer and prescribed Nexium & Donnatel for me.   Well, I saw my Dr. today and only took a dose of the Nexium which has proved to be of no help either.    I will be having a HIDA scan also this week, I hope.   This scan will reveal if there is a blockage anywhere.  I don't want to live like this anymore.   Let me know what happens w/your situation.   You can feel free to email me at ***@****    Best of luck to you.

Susan

[tisha17]

I have done 5 liver cleanses and I would like to agree with patriot.  He says to read...read...read!  That is what I did.  I had been feeling tired and didn't really know why.  I was impressed to clean my liver.  I had never heard of anything like that before, so I searched the web and found the same site patriot suggests.  

I have done 5 cleanses.  My first one I got out about 75 stones.  I felt so great afterwards.  It's almost euphoric.  On my second flush I only got out about 4 stones, but they were about (------)a cm long.  IT DID NOT HURT!  I read one post where the person said that it could not be done without pain.  I'm here to say that I did it without pain.  The epsom salts relaxes your bile ducts and allows things to flow out with no pain.  

On my third and fourth cleanses I didn't get any stones out.  I was wondering if I was finished, but on my 5th cleanse I got out about 30 stones.  I also would have to disagree with the person who says this is just grapefruit and oil.  My stones looked just like the pictures.  How could your body manufacture in a period of just overnite, "stones" .  It is true that when you examine them they are white inside.  That is cholestrol that has been building up and the green outside is bile.  Sometimes it is not green but tan or even black.  It is very important to drink lots of water every day to keep your liver flushed and the bile from becoming stagnant.  That is what helps to form stones.

If you are having pain on your side or are faced with surgery,  please read all that you can about doing this flush.  I think it is worth a look.  I have a friend that just had her gall bladder removed.  She did this flush because it was like a last resort.  She got out about 20 stones but still had to have the surgery because her GB was only at about 8% functioning. It was too late to save it. The thing is, she still has a pain exactly where she had it before surgery. The doctor says it is normal and not to worry.  In the meantime, she can't eat anything but salads and jello without throwing up. There are stones still inside.  One flush does not cure all.  It may take several to be sure stones are out of liver.  Go to www.curezone.com and read story after story about people who have done this.  It is true.  It works.

Tisha17

[littlejen02]

Im glad you feel better, and im not trying to put you "down" or make anyone feel "stupid", but im just trying to point out that you're not doing what it claims to be doing.
You DO feel good because you get that "detox" high.
Like you said, a "euphoric feeling", because you SEE results.
Sometimes this is all that is needed to make someone feel better,
just like when you're constipated, and finally get whats been stuck out, you feel better!
The "stones" you are seeing, are not stones, but are gelatanoid substances of olive oil mixed with the simple carbs, bile, and other lurking items in your digestive tract.
Real gallstones DO come in different shapes and sizes, but they are not soft in feeling or gelatinoid.  They are hard, supercompressed composistions of cholesterol, bile salts, and lecithin.
Epsom salt also does not relax the bile ducts of the liver.
Epsom salts are pulled straight from the stomach to the bowel where it pulls water with it,  making you have to make many trips to the bathroom.
They're very similar to the sodium phosphates you use for a bowel cleanse prep.
Infact,  the beginning of the "liver flush" ( taking the epsom salt preperation all day ),  is actually taken from a Colonoscopy preperation, if you've ever had one, its exactly the same way.
It makes the bowels spic and span, so when you do go the next morning, you will be guaranteed to see the results of consuming the olive oil and carbs.
Also, if one TABLESPOON of extra virgin olive oil is 14 grams of fat,  i can't begin to IMAGINE how many grams of fat you're consuming in a CUP of olive oil.
That puts an enormous strain on the system, ESPECIALLY the liver which has to process fats and oils we put in our body.

I don't feel this whole process will hurt anyone,
though if you're liver is compromised, i would HIGHLY suggest you dont try this, because it will add extra taxing on the liver by it processing the large amount of oil.


This process was also made to be by Not-A-Doctor-Hulda Clark,
who is one of the biggest quacks in the alternative medicine profession.
She's been arrested numerous times in Canada first, then USA, and now she's working without a licenese in Tijuana, Mexico.
She is currently awaiting trial right now for another charge of operating a clinic without a license.

It doesnt matter how many "sights" you read, they all relate back to her "concept".
She's taken advantage of many truely sick people who actually have cancer, charges them thousands of dollars for unproven treatments
( such as her "Zapper" ), sends them home saying they are "cured", and when they go back to tell their doctor "Told you so!" , the doctor does a scan, and the cancer is still there, and worse than before.

It sickens me to see people take advantage of people who are in need of serious help.

To me that IS evil.


Jen

[PN]

Hi all,

I will start with a :

"Modern Medicine would rather you die using its remedies than live by using what physicians call "quackery". ---Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.


I did liver flush four times.
First one no stones, next two about 100.
Last one, no stones.
The first three were 2 weeks apart.
I waited a month for the last one.
I showed mine to my MD, he didn't want to believe that I got them with a cleanse.
They look just like the ones in these pictures on this site.
They were "kelly" green though. Bright. Till the air gets them.
They are not that "Hard" though.
I "think" my allergies are better than they were. Not sure yet
though.


I don't agree with littlejen02's opinion, but we agree to disagree.

littlejen02, I know a lot of people who are like you.

You are just one of many victims of the war on quackery.
You actually believe in it.


Hulda Clark was treating people who have had advanced cancer.
She was taking from $3000 to $10.000 for several weeks/months of treatment.

Most people who came for her treatment were sent home to die, by their doctors! They chosed Her, after Cut, Burn and Poison therapy didn't work.

Before they were sent home to die, they received treatments for several months, treatments that cost from $50.000 to $200.000.

Are you 100% sure that you know who is the quack?

John W. Campbell, Jr.4 was a remarkable modern writer and thought-provoker, who was commemorated by naming a crater on the far side of the moon the "Campbell" crater.

A "Quack" According to John W. Campbell, Jr:

"Now let's consider for a moment what's meant by a 'quack' in the medical field.

"The usual charge is that a quack is someone who uses an improper treatment, one which does not help, or actually injures the patient, while inducing the patient to pay for his mistreatment, and keeping the patient from going to a licensed doctor and getting the treatment he needs. That a quack is in the business solely to make money at the expense of suffering humanity.

"Let's be objective about this business of what a quack does. Suppose a man, calling himself Dr. Jones, treats a patient who has a lethal disease, and uses a method he knows for a positive fact will not save the man's life. He charges fees, and sees to it that the patient doesn't go to any other therapist -- just gives him some drugs that do not save him, but let him die slowly.

"That set of actions fulfills exactly what the [medical establishment] accuses those awful, nasty, wicked quacks of doing.

"It is also precisely what an [establishment medical] doctor does when he treats [an cancer] patient; he knows that the standard treatments for [cancer] do not work, do not save lives. [Cancer], treated by the [medical establishment] methods, means [continuous pain, disfigurement and possibly] death.

"The [medical establishment], moreover, does everything in its power to make it impossible for the victim to get treatment from any other therapist who might be able to do better, and most certainly couldn't be less effective.

"The patient [may], moreover, wind up broke, and his family in debt -- a charge constantly leveled against those wicked quacks! -- by the time he dies.

[PN]

Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.:


"I no longer believe in Modern Medicine. I believe that despite all the super technology and elite bedside manner

[tisha17]

I wanted to respond to littlejen2 about liver cleansing.  I guess at this point it is best to just agree to disagree :)


When I started doing these cleanses, I wondered about drinking so much olive oil.  Btw, it is 1/2 cup, not 1 cup. I got to studying about that and decided that (1.) olive oil is a good oil.  It is good for you.  A lot of fats are not good for your body.  and (2.)  1 T. of olive oil is 14 grams of fat.  1/2 cup of oil is 8 T. x 14 grams = 112 grams.  That is about as much fat as eating a fast food meal at KFC, McDonalds or Pizza Hut. (I checked).

I'm not saying that this is for everyone.  It is up to you to make that decision.  I do know that this can be an alternative to surgery.  It depends on what shape your gall bladder is in.  Maybe it is past saving.  But, even if you do have surgery, your body will still produce stones that will clog your liver, GB or not.  

Tisha17

[LindaJ]

Hello everybody....

I have done liver flush 12 times in the last 2 years.
Dr.Clark Recipe.
I am gallstones free (sonogram), since my 8th cleanse.

Question for littlejen02:

I understand that you don't want to believe that olive oil can help flush gallstones.
I also understand that you believe that stones that I got, or that nayone else got, are actually product of digestion.
You believe that those stones are not gallstones.
I also understand that you believe that most health benefits are placebo.
I have had gallstones - diagnosed by sonogram.
I did cleanse 8 times. Altogether over 1000 stones.
I did sonogram again - no gallstones - empty gallbladder diagnosed.
I have no more gallbladder attacks! My digestion is greatly improved! My skin looks 50 times better. I can tolerate all foods! I still have my gallbladder (and I hope to keep it).


Question:
If all my health benefits are placebo, that is OK, but how do you explain empty gallblader (gallbladder)?

just curious
Linda

[littlejen02]

Your name is Tim Bolen?

[littlejen02]

Don't go and tell me that "natural" therapy is any better than modern therapy.

I was having problems for months, and at 22 years old, its frustrating,  and because of the long wait to see specialists, i got anxious in the meantime, and decided to see what i could do while waiting.
I went to a naturopath who immediately, without doing any sort of tests or verification, said that i had "candida".
She sold me a "Yeast Busters Kit" ( which contained Caproil, Psyllium, and Bentonite, as well as Acidopholus ), and sent me home.
I started the program as well as the diet, and by the end of the first week, i was 20 times sicker than i was before starting the program. I couldn't get out of bed, my body hurt all over and i could barely speak.
A couple days later, my skin and eyes went yellow, and i was throwing up violently.   I was rushed to the Emergency, had blood tests, and my liver was overcompromised, enzymes off the chart. I had temporary form of hepatitis.
I stayed in the hospital for a couple days where i was just fed fluids, kept hydrated.  I was then released.
My skin and eyes returned to normal.
I went to the naturopath upset, and asked "Why did this happen?"   and she said that it was all "perfectly normal" and that it was just toxins leaving the body and that the Hepatitis was just an old disease i had showing up again.
I've never had hepatitis in my life, nor liver problems.
She told me to buy another kit.

I was furious, how she could say it was all normal, when the doctors said if i used the product any longer, my liver could have failed.   My whole life in jeopardy, despite the product being "natural".

I have nothing against all herbs and things.  Infact, i think some might become proven and be useful along the way...

But to say that modern medicine is ****
( when we've come A LONG way )
and to say that just because something is "natural" and came off a tree that its good for you with no side effects is stupid.

Cocaine comes from plants.
So does Heroin.

Almost all modern medicine pharmaceuticals are derived from products of nature as well...

Like i said before, i know there will come a time when herbs will be a good addition to health care,
im just warning that you're taking quite the risk no matter what
( even with modern medicine ) kind of pills you are taking,
but at least the proper dosages, side effects, etc are documented with modern medicine and you can figure it out for yourself if its worth taking and will outdo the bad.

I was actually all FOR alt. med  until my mishap.
I was also scammed by a Live Blood Cell analysis.  Me and many friends decided all to get one at a well known naturopath here to see how our health is,  and we ALL had the same results, and were ALL told to buy the same product ( Digestive Enzymes ).

[tisha17]

Wow Amy, are you more confused than ever?  I was wondering if you found out your test results?  I know a girl who had to have her gall bladder removed recently.  She had just had a baby and began having terrible pains.  She is only 23.  I was really surprised because I thought that this was a problem that occurred as people got older.  I have since known of two other girls both in their twenties who are pregnant and are suffering with gall bladder attacks.  

I wonder if it's the diet of the times.  I know that when I was growing up McDonalds was still counting the number of hamburgers sold :)  I didn't eat a lot of fast food.  My mom had dinner ready every night and it was a balanced meal.  As I got out on my own, got married and had kids, life became a lot more hectic.  It is a lot easier to get fast food if we're out going  and doing with the kids.  

I don't know about your diet, but I've read of people with stones (which is what I think imho is causing you to have pain on your right side) who eat a basically vegetarian diet.  You need to drink plenty of water every day to flush your system. I hope that you take this "gift" of pain seriously and make changes so that you will not lose your gall bladder.  I really think that we need everything we have.  If something is removed, there is adjusting and sometimes pills to take or food that can't ever be eaten again without discomfort.  I hope I'm not worrying you!  I just have learned a lot reading about other peoples medical problems.  

Tisha17

[Lor]

Liver cleansing is a bunch of ****. What do you people do sit on the pot over a strainer?

[hollyp]

Hi Amy,
I have had mine out for three years.  Ask a lot of questions, do a lot of research, try non-invasive things (no matter how stupid they sound) first.
The biggest question is this - how will this affect my digestive process in the future and what (if any) other organs will be stressed by its removal?
Many people (another thread here) suffer from back pains, cramps, and "dumping" - myself included.  I asked the doc those questions and let him off easy because anything was better than that pain.  Now I am looking for a doc that will honsetly treat this as an after-affect of gall bladder removal.

If it  hurts too much and is sharp and constant you may be forced to make a desision, but if you have time look around for alternatives.  
Best of luck.

[tisha17]

Excellent post!!! Patriot.  I second everything you said.


BTW, I just did my sixth liver cleanse yesterday and I'm still here. Liver cleansing is a true option.  Please look into it.  Patriot gave some great websites.

It seems that some of the people on here who have written strong concerns against liver cleansing, are looking for a pill that will stop their pain.  This is just my opinion from some of the responses I have read.  Doctor's should not be discounted, but sometimes they really just don't know what is wrong with a person. They prescribe pills and hope it works.  People have come here to ask questions because they are not satisfied with the treatment they have been given.  Alternative medicine is an option.

I thought about doing this cleanse for a while before I actually did it.  I was not having pains or anything so there was no reason to suspect my gall bladder.  I was just feeling tired and seemed to have no energy.  Into my mind one day when I was asking my Heavenly Father why I was so tired came the thought to cleanse my liver.  I know that sounds crazy ;), but that is what happened.  I had never heard of doing this before.  I looked it up on the internet and came across other people who were doing this.  

I have since done six cleanses.  I do feel better.  I have only gotten out about 150 stones total over the course of six cleanses.  I don't know if that is all there is.  Some people get out a lot more.  Everyone is different.  The results are different.  There is a (slight) risk to doing this, but there is also a risk to surgery.  If you get a stone stuck you would probably have to have surgery.

(As patriot said, there are a couple of stories of people who have had a problem but they were already having problems.There are so many more stories of real people who have been successful)

But what if there are stones in you right now (as there probably are).  Would you rather leave them in there to grow as you continue to eat foods high in cholestrol and some day have an attack and have to have surgery and no choice but surgery because it is too late to do anything else.  There is a risk to surgery, too.

There are people in pain who have done this.  I have a friend who had to have her gall bladder removed just recently.  I think I told this.  She did the cleanse because she did not want to have surgery.  She had already been in pain for a week.  She did the cleanse and got out about 20 stones.  Her doctor did a test of her gall bladder and said that she did not have any stones, but that her GB was only 8% functioning.  She had to have it out.  She has had nothing but trouble since. She can harly eat without pain or nausea.  Her original pain is still in the same place.   The doctor says he doesn't know why.

Anyway, I just wanted to second what patriot said and let you know that it does work.  It is scary at first.  The fear of the unknown and all.  My dh did it.  He was really apprehensive but after I did it and he saw the stones that I cleansed out, he wanted to do it.  He also did not have any reason to suspect that he would find anything.  He got out more stones than I did on his first time.  He has done it twice and plans to do more but he travels for work and has to find the time.  I only share these things in hopes that it will help.

Good Luck in your choice,
Tisha17

[Jenn1968]

Hi I am new to this site. Unfortunatly I have to be here. I know all about reading up on things (surgery) ect before making that final decision. I have had stomach acid problems for about 10 years now. Not so bad at first but now live on ant-acid pills ( I carry stock lol). The last couple of years about every other month I get a incredible pain in the middle of my stomach just blow my rib cage. I have been through labor three times and this pain dosent even compare to that! This last episode lasted 3 days. Im quite aware I need to have my gb removed ( or so Im told) but Im quite curious about the options. I have read alot about flushing and tend to shy away from drinking large amounts of items that cause me the pain in the first place. Anything oily and salting will shoot me over the edge in pain! Another thing I have read onthis posting is about death caused by surgeons and docs. Where is the finding on "natural" docs? who regulates them? Who "talleys" up there total of deaths? They dont because it was the patients "option" not to pursue conventional medicine. I have seen both sides of the coin. I work in a HMO company and have many friends who dont use conventional med. I guess Im confused on where to go from here. All I know is Im sooooooo tired of the pain and waiting for the next "episode" of pain!!
H E L P

[hollyp]

Wow.  Amy are you still with us?

You have a lot of discussion going on here and I hope that it is helping.  I am amazed at the variety of responses here.

Jenn2

[[e-mail]]

I am suffering from the same symptoms Amy, I had a HIDA scan done yesterday and the xray tech said he couldnt get my gall bladder to empty and he gave me choclate milk for some reason to get it to empty out, and it still didnt empty out the right way. So I am really concerned! Does anyone have any helpful imput?