chronic cholecystitis

I have pain in the area under and below my right rib cage. It also hurts in the back area under the sholder blade tips and radiates downward. I am nauseated and fatigued. This has been going on for approximately 2 months. The only meds I take is 12.5 mg. of Coumadin nightly for pulmonary emboli (no reason ever found for these after a slew of tests were done, but they happen out of the blue.) Pro-time is 2.3 with Coumadin. All regular bloodwork is normal.
   I recently had a HIDA scan with the following results: There was a somewhat delayed filling of the gallbladder with the radionuclide. At approximately 60 minutes there did appear to be a gallbladder that was visualized, however, it appeared to be somewhat smaller than normally expected.
   When injected with Sincalide, the ejection fraction was a negative percentage that suggested that the gallbladder filled somewhat more after the injection.
  The radiologist recommended a gall bladder ultrasound. My family doctor is ready to schedule surgery. My surgeon wants me to follow a "gallbladder diet" of no fats, etc. for a couple weeks. My diet is actually already high in grains, fruits and vegetables and low in fats.
   Is there a recommended course to follow?

[wendell]

Hi Jenifer:

If you'd like to e-mail me, I may be able to help your condition with some natural herbal recommendations (NOT drugs).

By the way, I thought it best that you know - the drug Coumadin is used for RAT POISON!!! These are just some of the shameful drugs they give humans and expect them to heal???

Let me know if I can help.

Sincerely,

Wendell  <***@****>

[Shirley Roberts]

I believe a gallbladder operation would help, because I have had all those test's and they saw two small stones, which they believed did not ccause me all this pain, but they took out my gallbladder 8 days ago and found several small stones, two huge stones, a swollen and inflamed gallbladder. The test's showed none of these. I go to get my stitches out tomorrow and I am really sore, but I do not know if my problems will be solved, as I have numerous problems. This is my second time on a computer and really do not know what I am doing, so please forgive me if I have done this badly. I wish you a lot of luck and hope all goes well for you.

[Martha]

I had similar symptoms, with right upper abdominal pain which would move to my back.  I had rather severe pain when the doctor pressed on my upper right abdomen.  I was also experiencing quite a bit of nausea and my blood test showed a slightly high alkaline phosphatase.  They ordered a sonogram, and it came back negative.  I went to the emergency room when the pain got severe and the emergency room doctor ordered a HIDA scan.  My ejection fraction was low.

I had the surgery two weeks ago.  The pathology on my gallbladder showed that I had been suffering from chronic cholecystitis, and there was a stone which hadn't shown on the ultrasound.

Since I had the surgery, the symptoms are gone now and I'm feeling much better.

[peggy]

HAVE THE SURGERY....YOU WILL FEEL BETTER SOON AND BE UP AND GOING.

[s.evans from england]

i have had same problems here and it has been controled by diet and occasionally if i eat wrong foods then painkillers.
i refused surgery as i felt it uneccassary if i can mange it with the exclusions of certain foods, such as dairy products and fatty foods.
you need to decide whats the best option for you and forget what everyone wants or the doctors want....only have surgery if you want to.

good luck

***@****

[monica]

Jenifer, here is a web site that you might want to check out.
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/2975/Index.html
I hope it helps!
Monica

[Arlene Sovran]

Jennifer: I am having similar problems. In February I had an attack of pain which my family doctor felt could be gallstones but wanted to see what else would develop because the tests done
were inconclusive.  Just before Easter I wound up in emergency two nights in a row with my appendix being removed the second night.(The appendix was ready to go!!!)  However, I am still having problems with my abdomen and am going for a second HIDA scan but this one is to include a CCK infusion==this second test was "recommended" by the nuclear medicine unit at the hospital where the first one was performed.
Re: surgery--I would like to have it!!!--Why? you might ask?  My mother has lived without hers for almost 40 years with no side effects.  Two girls I work with have had theirs out and highly recommend the procedure saying they have never felt better.  They also told me that the surgeon who did the procedure believes that gallbladder problems are often hereditary in females who are healthy weights.  He often finds  that the patients have a history where mothers, aunts and grandmothers have had theirs removed, and that the problem often starts after having had a baby. Does any of this ring any bells for you??  I am tired of waiting around for the next attack and quite miffed that my last month of maternity has not included Gymboree and Aquafit classes with my daughter.  She's now 6 months and a lot of fun!  Instead I've had to put her in daycare fulltime already because I'm still recouperating from the appendectomy and don't have the energy to take care of her all day.  All of the above is why I would gladly have the surgery so that I can get on with enjoying life with my husband and daughter.    
THIS IS JUST ANOTHER VIEWPOINT FOR YOU TO CONSIDER--GOOD LUCK WITH WHATEVER DECISION YOU FEEL IS BEST FOR YOU.

[Beth]

The pain sounds exactly like what I experienced from gallstones during pregnancy.  My OB couldn't figure it out.  The ER doctor did a last ditch effort and scanned my gallbladder and found stones.  These are very uncomfortable!

[J Summers]

I am going through the same thing.  My Hida scan/ CCK showed a constriction of 7% (35 or better is normal).  My family doctor said as long as I am in pain, take out the gall bladder.  Especially after he saw the results of the test (even though the ultrasound didn't show anything).  So I was refered to two surgeons, one said to become a vegetarian; the other wants to rerun all of the tests!!!  What is wrong with doctors today?  Is this part of the HMO insurance scam?  Everything that I have read says that my Hida scan is probably causing the pain, so why aren't the surgeons willing to do the surgery?  I am confused.  I don't really want the surgery, but if it helps me to get on with my life, so be it.  I have been to the doctors 8 times now in 5 weeks, and I am far from done.  If this keeps up, I'll probably get fired from my job and won't have to worry about the HMO thing anymore!!!

[cha cubio]

diagnosis is chronic cholecystitis. Treatment is cholecystectomy.

[Sean kelley]

I had laparoscopic cholecystectomy. Fine, no more pain. But problems with constipation and diarrhoea.

[Kumar Ratnayake]

Month ago my local doctor send for ultrasound for gallbladder
they check and told me wall thick so they arrange me to go to
hospital. Doctor in hospital  remove the gallbldder today
is the third day still I got pain inside everywhere when I moving
my body and pain when I breathing .They cut four places cut my
belly button too and all the way up between the ribs.So please let me is that normal or not?

[Kumar Ratnayake]

Month ago my local doctor send for ultrasound for gallbladder
they check and told me wall thick so they arrange me to go to
hospital. Doctor in hospital  remove the gallbldder today
is the third day still I got pain inside everywhere when I moving
my body and pain when I breathing .They cut four places cut my
belly button too and all the way up between the ribs.So please let me is that normal or not?

[Kumar Ratnayake]

Month ago my local doctor send for ultrasound for gallbladder
they check and told me wall thick so they arrange me to go to
hospital. Doctor in hospital  remove the gallbldder today
is the third day still I got pain inside everywhere when I moving
my body and pain when I breathing .They cut four places cut my
belly button too and all the way up between the ribs.So please let me is that normal or not?

[jeff]

I had gall bladder removed on 1/2/01 it is now 2/14/01 and I still have bloating and some upper abodominal pain. Getting on my nerves to be honest.  and man.. my Bowel movements.. they are way different and very odorous .. not trying to be common.. but it is way different.  Anybody else have these problems?  If so.. when did they start to clear up? Thanks.

[kristin]

I had my gallbladder out 3 years ago and I haven't been the same since.  They found alot of sand in my gallbladder and said that it was best to take it out.  Since my surgery I have had numerous attacks that give me upper right pain under my ribs and in the center of my ribs also with profuse sweating and nausea and at the same time I can't talk and bearly breath. My first attack was 2-3 hours after surgery and needless to say the nurse did nothing for me.  These attacks last from approx. 5 hours.  I was hospitalized once and had elevated liver enzymes.  They did not seem very concerned at the time. They are excruciatingly painful.  I have been to numerous dr.'s and they keep treating me for IBS.  does anyone out there experience this same thing???
I have had numerous tests also and nothing shows up except elevated liver enzymes sometimes?! I would go back to having my gallbladder anyday!!!  Please contact me if anyone has been though these horrible attacks.  ***@****

[stephanie]

I had my gallbladder out in 1978. Since then I have had upper right quadrant pain, with some nausea and gas episodically. I have had every scan in the world with no findings. The doctors just say 'maybe there are stones in the liver ducts'. I get very queasy and have pain with ANYTHING fried and with dairy. Best when I eat apples, belive it or not and eggwhites for protein. I am so sick of this. My diet is clean but am willing to change it to avoid these attacks. Suggestions????? Post here or email m e at ***@****

[jennifer]

I have had right upper quadrant pain for about three months.  My doctor ordered a ultrasound and that was normal.  It doesn't always happen after fatty foods.  It sort of flares-up every so often.  I sometimes have nausea.  I also feel discomfort when leaning forward at times.  Did anyone with gall bladder problems have this discomfort when leaning forward?  I would like to have a hydascan, but my doctor doesn't want to order one.  For those of you who have had one, what does the test involve?   Liver function test was normal.  Thanks, Jennifer

[Dee]

I had my gall bladder removed back in October 2000.  One morning, 2 weeks after my surgery, I woke up and had breakfast.  20 minutes after eating, I had the same exact symptoms I had when I had my gallstones.  The pain become so intense my husband had to call an ambulance.  When the paramedics arrived, I had vomitted and the pain went away.  I was taken to the hospital and the doctor found my liver enzymes still a little elavated.  My gastroenterologist did an ERCP and put a stint in me to help widen the opening of my bile duct.  At this time, this was the 2nd ERPC.  I had another ERPC in December 2000 and the dr put a bigger stint in me.  I am schedule for a 4th ERPC in March where the dr is going to run a camera in that narrow area of the bile duct to see if there is another stone.  He is also going to have me on a table that is able to be elevated to see if my bile is draining like it should.  Almost every night I wake up at least once with a very sudden upper abdominal pain.  This pain only last a few minutes but it is very intense.  My doctor believes that the reason it lasts only a few minutes is because the bigger stint that is in me allows the bile to drain.  There is the possibility that when the doctor pulls out the stint and my bile will still be unable to drain and that I might have to have surgery to widen that area.  In some rare cases, a surgeon may have to bi-pass the bile duct with the intesines.  This is a very complicated surgery.  

I hope this information helps anyone experiencing pain after gall bladder surgery.  If you are, then you should make an appointment to see a gastroenterologist.  A gastroenterologist will probably do an ERCP.  This allows the dr to see if there are stones or if the bile duct is too narrow causing the bile to be clot up.  These are the 2 most common reasons for pain after the gall bladder surgery.  But don't live with this pain, see a doctor.

[krisg]

I just wanted to let anyone know that I think there is a link to having your gallbladder removed and also these attacks.  If you look up esophageal spasms, it sounds exactly what alot of us are experiencing.  I beleive there is a connection between the surgery and these attacks.  These attacks I get are usually in the middle of the night when I am sleeping soundly.  They wake me with a start.  I was rushed to the hospital once and they thought I was having a heart attack(agina like pain).  I have done alot of extensive searching and have found esophageal spasms to be the closest in relation.  Funny how none of the doctors want to relate anything to the surgery??!!  It has been 3 years now since my gallbladder surgery and I have finally found an anti-spasm medication to help.  Too bad I have to be on it for the rest of my life.  When the attacks start to happen I jump for the pill bottle.  Levsin is an anti-spasm medication and it is used for many different medical ailments.  I have found that if I take one pill followed by another within 10 minutes they calm down the spasm within 1 hour and I don't have to go through that period of excruiating pain and vomiting. I hope this info helps anyone who is still going through this mess.kristin

[Kelly B]

My husband had his gallbladder removed as well with no relief. He has had 7 months of agony along with diarrhea and vomiting.
We finally asked the doctor to test for Celiac Disease and lo and behold, he has it.  It causes a multitude of symptoms and is a lifelong disease.  The only cure is dietary which is very disruptive.  My husband has been on the diet for 3 weeks and is finally getting some relief.  It will take 2-6 months to feel 100% better.  Check out www.celiac.com.  Or search this site for "celiac"
And to the guy with the stinky stools.....yep it causes that too!

[LindaLou]

I have had a problem now for over 3 months.   It started with a stabbing pain in the center of my back radiating to my right upper quadrant area under the ribs.  I was in such severe pain, I was put in the hospital for pain managment, the docs thought I had pancreatitits because of something do to with the St. Jude Mech. Valve I have and Coumadin Therapy? However the Ultra Sound showed negative, the CT Scan showed negative, the Hidascan showed a normal functioning gallbladder, x-ray showed normal.  
The stabbing pain has only occured maybe twice since then (which has been approx. 2 months ago) and it was only for a few seconds, however the pain I have now is constant and always in the RUQ area under the ribs, the ribs are tender to touch, I even went to Physical Therapy the doc thinking it was more of a muscle problem, which caused more pain than before.  
Went to surgeon which wanted to do an EGD, which I did and found only Barretts'Esophagus, but no stomach ulcers, etc....so I go back to the surgeon this friday to decide on gallbladder surgery, He said it was possible to have all test show negative and still could be the gallbladder, what do you say?

[ShadowLin]

For the last year I have had an aching feeling in my right lower side from just under my ribs and down. The pain is bearable and sort of nagging.  I have recently begun to wake in the night with my right side sort of feeling knotted  up. This discomfort has continues day and night and occasionally I feel slightly nauseous and a too full feeling. I had my gall bladder out over 2 years ago. At that time I had a stone in my duct. I am getting tests run with no solution in sight. I am so aware of this ache or colic type feeling! One thing...after most of my tests even my back is sore..both left and right... Anyone have any ideas??
THanks Linda

[rking]

For the last 6 months, I have been waking up anywhere from 3 to 5 am with pain in my right side under my ribcage, going thru to my back and sometimes the lower right flank.  It's actually the pain that wakes me up.  In my back it almost feels like a muscle spasm, and that's what I first thought it was, but I've also had a lot of belching, various bouts of indigestion, and abdominal-type pain in the URQ, which has all steadily increased in the last 6 months. It's to the point now, that the pain doesn't ever totally go away it's like a chronic dull ache - I just block it out and keep on going. All of my bloodwork is perfect (two weeks ago). My doctor put me on an acid blocker saying it could be an ulcer, but, it hasn't helped at all. Last week, an abdominal ultrasound of my gallbladder revealed some small polyps. The ultrasound technician said that you can definitely feel gallbladder symptoms in your back, and as the gallbladder fills with bile during the night, it can become painful. However, the doctor believes the polyps are no big deal. He has me scheduled for a HIDA scan on Monday. I don't want to have surgery, but I'm getting a little tired of waking up every night at 3:30 or 4:00 am with a sore right side and back. A friend of mine said it took 3 years for them to finally get around to taking out his gallbladder, because they couldn't decide if it was infected or not. He's been fine ever since. Is what I'm going through indicative of gallbladder problems, and is it always this difficult to diagnose?

[ShadowLin]

You can live well without that gall bladder acting up. I noticed that my whole disgestive system worked better after mine.  I still have not found out why I have pain in my right side and back. My tests showed nothing.  God Bless

[ShadowLin]

The gall bladder can act up for years before it finally gets so bad that you have to do something. I am sooooooo glad that I had mine out. That pain in my right side is going on without my gall bladder...but the gall bladder can make you really sick. I suggest you get it out then move on. I wish the doctor could figure out my problem. When I had gall bladder stones.. I became very nausiated in the night. I had reflux and awful digestion problems. God Bless

[ShadowLin]

The gall bladder can act up for years before it finally gets so bad that you have to do something. I am sooooooo glad that I had mine out. That pain in my right side is going on without my gall bladder...but the gall bladder can make you really sick. I suggest you get it out then move on. I wish the doctor could figure out my problem. When I had gall bladder stones.. I became very nausiated in the night. I had reflux and awful digestion problems. God Bless

[littleone]

This is my first time here.  I have been reading over all of your comments, and was wondering about my own symptoms.  I couldn't post a question anywhere, but I thought I would send a note here maybe you can help.

I've been suffering from stomach problems for over 9 years now.  It started with my having acute pancreatitis 9 years ago.  Doctors ran every test under the sun, however no reason was determined for this problem.  They say it is usually caused by gallstones but they couldn't find any.  I had the hydascan done, however at the time the technician told me it was normal, except that the medicine infiltrated.  Now I have to have this scan done again and I am told that if it infiltrated it really means I didn't get all the medicine in my vein, so maybe it was abnormal after all.  After the ERCP, I ended up in the hospital with pancreatitis again.  I have had reflux, irritable bowel and gas pain and bloating for years.  I am constantly taking Prilosec, Levsin SL, Mylanta, Gas X etc.

Anyway, 2 years ago I had taken Prednisone and an antibiotic together at the same time and ended up with severe esophagitis.  This was painful, had difficulty breathing, it felt like my heartbeat was in my throat etc.

I have been having more problems again.  I ate chips over the weekend and ended up with terrible pain actually on my left side underneath my rib, and it felt like a knife out of my back.  Every time I took a breath it hurt terribly.  I had terrible reflux and I took every drug I had on hand but nothing happened to change it.  I also have been feeling a funny feeling like there is a pressure in the center of my chest with a little bit of a heartbeat from my throat to the center of my chest.  I also feel like there is a pressure on my chest like you get when you get the wind knocked out of you.  Anyway, I went to dr.  Had a gallbladder scan done of course it shows no gallstones.  But something is wrong.  It cannot be normal to always feel like this, can it??  Now next Thursday I am going for the hydascan again.  I certainly hope it shows something.  I am so afraid a surgeon will not take out my gallbladder without some proof of problems.  My mom and several aunts have had their gallbladders out and feel much better.  My mom says she rarely has reflux and can eat anything she wants.  What does everyone think?  Do you honestly think that having my gallbladder out will help my symptoms.  I really would like to have it out, but I also want to make sure that it helps me too.  Please help me!

[Luke Chiniche]

Mom sweet Mom is in the hospital as I type.  She is suffering with a terribel acute pain that usually starts up after she eats.  It either begins in her back or in the right upper abdomine.  She does not have a gallbladder.  She had a stomach stapling in 1978.  She has had upper GI, Lower Gi, Edoscopy, C0lonoscopy, messinteric arterialgram, sonagram, ekg, ecogram, all show negative.

I have never seen anyone with this kind of pain.  She ask God to take her home because she cannot stand the pain.  She screams and crys out in acute pain.  The only thing that helps is to give her demerol 50 mgs.  This calms her terrible stomach or back acuteness and eventually she sleeps.   The doctors and family are at wits end.  The doctors say all gi tests are negative and that there is no reason for the pain.  

She has been seen by a psychiatrist, gastro, heart, general and other docs.  They are puzzled.  Her blood work is all great.  Yet, this pain is intense and knocks her to her knees.  She is bowed over in pain until she gets demerol or some other pain via IV.  

She is fine when she wakes up.  It seems to be related to eating.  After she eats, maybe 5 minutes or whatever, she goes into these terrible spasms.  She is taking Librax, Levisin, Robaxin ( muscle relaxer) .  Has anyone got an idea.  Please help.  We are watching our mother suffer the torches of hell.


The doctors do not understand .  We are taking her for pain management Monday.  They are going to try to do muscle blocks.  

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Luke Chiniche  Call 318-3220240 or 318-348-0440  Please Help?

Email address:  ***@****  If you respond this week send it to :  ***@****

[angiebmac]

I have had problems with constipation, since I was a little girl.  I am a black female 33 yrs of age with two children.  Now I am experiencing severe pain in my left and right side that radiates through my back.  I went to the emergency room and they thought I was having a heart attack.  Everything came back normal.  Everytime I eat fatty foods, or diary products, I get heartburn and or indigestion.  Sometimes I am so gassy that I can't fasten my pants.  My doctor ordered a hida scan, it showed my gallblader (gallbladder) working 20%, he ordered an upper GI to rule out ulcers (normal), he ordered a ultrasound of the abdomen (normal).My doctor has me on aciphex and it seems to work sometimes.  Last night I woke up with severe pain across my whole back, weakness, nausea, feeling just plain terrible.  My doctor just ordered another HIDA Scan and he has changed my medicine to protonox.  Has anyone had this problem?

[ellie51]

Beginning of April this year after a rather rich meal I had a sudden attack of pain on the right hand side just under the ribs.  Not excrutiating pain but quite severe.  Since then I have had tenderness in that area and sudden cramping pains usually in the early hours of the morning.  I have restricted my fat intake severely and as such I am losing weight.   I also have back pains from the rib area, shoulder and up to the neck area.    Had an ultra-sound of gallbladder which did not show any stones but blood tests show elevated liver enzymes.  Today I had an endoscopy which was all clear.    I also have back, neck and rib pain and a choking cough when the pain starts.  This coughing what is really worrying me as I am a smoker (very light, but nevertheless, still a smoker).  The cough is not present unless the pain under the ribs is there.  I seem to be going from one specialist to the other and it is taking such a long time.  Has anyone else had symptoms like these, what was the diagnosis and anything that could help would be much appreciated.  Many thanks.

[jennifer]

I wrote about two months ago that I had unexplained RUQ pain and feelings of nausea.   I had a HIDA scan that showed ejection fraction of 16%.  I saw a surgeon and decided to have my gall bladder out.  When they took it out they found many small stones and one large jagged stone.  None of the stones had shown up on the ultrasound.  I still have a bit of pain where my gall was, but I can eat normally again.  My surgery was two weeks ago.  I did develop a burning on my left side about two weeks before the surgery.  It is on my side not front or back.  I don't know if it is related to digestion or not.  Anyone else had this?  I am very glad that I had my gall bladder out, by the way and no chronic diarrhea.

[ShadowLin]

I know what you are going through. My aching pain in my right side and is constant day and night and will wake me up at night. I do have some digestion problems but did not associate the two. The doctor ran all sorts of tests and found all normal. He gave me 15 Protonix to try...one each night....well after pill number 4, I stopped waking up at night. The ache is there occasionally but I am not constantly aware of it. The doctor wants to look in my colon and I guess that will be my next test.
I had my gall bladder out 2 years ago... the symptons with that were bloating and then severe nausea many hours after dinner. I was going to the emergency room at 3am. My gall bladder removal was the best thing that I could have ever done... I suffered for a long time with it without knowing what it was.
God Bless
Lin

[rking]

Just a quick update on my continuing quest for an answer. In my April 3rd post, I told you that they found polyps (2) in my gallbladder during an abdominal ultrasound, but no stones showed up. I read the radiologist's report and they are extremely small and not blocking any ducts etc. From what the doctors have said, and what I have read these are extremely common. All my bloodwork is normal. I had a HIDA scan on the 9th, and it showed that my gallbladder has an ejection factor of 63%, so it seems to be functioning well. The baseline is 35%, below this, surgery is often recommended. I have been on 30 mg prevacid for two weeks, and it has helped with the acid reflux tremendously.  However, I am still experiencing pain in the upper right side, and back. Primarily in the early am hours...like I said, it's the pain that usually wakes me up.  I'm not overweight, and if I tense the muscles in my back and push inward, I can sometimes feel the pain inside. A friend of mine said the same thing happened with her gallbladder-but it was full of stones. I did have an abdominal CT scan yesterday (4/23) and I have a sigmoidoscopy scheduled on Friday. As a side note to this, I'm also feeling some pain in my muscles and joints - neck, back, elbows, wrists...upper body mostly. Maybe it's all tied together. Maybe it's just a lack of rest and tension. Either way, I'm completely clueless as to what's going on here. It may be my colon, stomach, etc. Some people think it's all stress related and in my head. I do have stress in my life, and I'm not saying that this can't happen, but the primary stress I'm feeling right now is not knowing what's going on. I've discovered that medical science is not an exact science - it's a process of elimination, and even then, they sometimes overlook things. Based on what I know, I do think my doctor is being very thorough. I'm just going to hang in there a while longer and see what turns up.

[jimsel]

rking.  It could still be your gallbladder.  Stones are often missed with ultrasounds.  Don't let any dr. tell you that they are overly accurate.  They are not.  One just has to read the many posts by people who had no stones and had the gallbladder taked out any way.  Upon examination, they very often have stones in them.  After they have done all the tests and ruled everything out, you might want to consider asking a surgeon to take it out based on your symptoms.  It's a tough call, but one worth at least considering.  Good luck and keep us posted.

[ShadowLin]

I have many of your symptoms without my gallbladder. I was checked for stones in the duct but none showed up. I am awakened at night with that right side ache. My back hurts and I feel uncomfortable. I took 15 pills for acid reflux and must admit that I am better...It is not an everyday and night thing now. I took my last pill last night... I will let you know if the pain returns. I can live with the uncomfort because it is not a really pain..but an uncomfortable ache. I do find relief at night sleeping on my left side. Keep us posted if you find out anything. I feel like my relatives think it is in my head too. It is usually so constant that I can't forget about it. When I am ache...less I notice it big time.
I am going for a colon test then give up and live with it.
Take care and God bless

[chinaboy]

Jennifer, I just wanted to tell you that Wendell is correct.  WE are only treated for symtoms (symptoms), not causes.  While it may sound simplistic when you are suffering, when you know nothing other than what a Westerm practitioner tells you and when you think there is no where else to turn, many of our problems are caused by Candida.  I won't begin to describe this terrible epidemic on Western culture but so many suffer fro this fungus infection and simply are unaware that it exists.  Read Sherry Rogers, William Rae, Dr.Crook just to start your education.  It takes a while to cure but you don't get poisoned to survive.  And Candida is never your fault, just a result of the way we have begun to live.  Good luck.  Health is surely yours.

[rking]

Here's the latest installment in the "Right Quadrant Mystery Pain Series"....Since September I have had two abdominal ultrasounds (six months apart), two blood work ups (six months apart), Hida Scan, which brings us up to Monday, April 24th: I had an abdominal CT scan which covered the the entire abdominal area: stomach, colon, all organs. Results: Stone Cold Normal - no abnormalities present.  On Friday, April 27th, I had a sigmoidoscopy, and the results were also very good...no polyps, no bleeding, no inflamation (inflammation), etc. Doctor was able to make the turn at the top of the left side and see along the transverse colon. It looked great as well. He said with everything looking as good as it did with what he could see, the likelyhood of anything being wrong in the ascending colon was extremely slim. I am still on 30mg of Prevacid which has eliminated the burning and acid reflux issues, but the pain in my side and back are still present, in fact I still wake up in the wee hours 4:00 to 5:00 am with right side and back pain. This is every morning, folks! I'm beginning to feel like I'm a 41 year old trapped in the body of an 85 year-old. I still believe it's my gallbladder, regardless of what the scans, ultrasounds, etc...say, and here's why: Yesterday, I ate lunch at my desk. (Hamburger and Fries from the cafeteria) Not real smart considering I had a sausage and egg biscuit for breakfast....but hey, I'm thin and my cholesterol is low, so what the heck I was working on a report....Two hours later I could actually feel spasms in my right side! Back pain, front pain, across to the chest pain...you name it! It wasn't burning like indigestion, it was like painful muscle spasms. I rode it out, and kept right on working. Felt kind of lousy and sore last night...so I went light on dinner. Again this morning at 4:00 I am waking up with a very sore right side/back, it never really goes away completely. I've also got these weird sore spots around the edges of my tongue that come and go. Maybe it's tied in to the gastro thing, or maybe it's just stress or lack of rest, I really don't know. I have heard and read that many times all the tests and scans come back normal but once they remove the gallbladder they find things or conditions the tests missed. This has been going on since the end of August of 2000, and it's not getting any better. My concern is, that if this isn't taken care of soon, then further complications or problems could arise that will only make matters worse. I'm still active, working out, and going about my normal routine, but this chronic pain is getting old. Anyone got any suggestions here? I'm running out of ideas (and tests).

[rking]

If you read my previous post, then here's the latest. Talked with my doctor's nurse today...told her the symptoms were continuing, he said to tell me that the back pain, side pain, etc, was probably muscular-skeletal inflamation (inflammation) and ordered a steriod pack to see if that helps.  I really don't think this is what it is, but I think he has reviewed the tests and since they all come back "normal" then he thinks it's obviously not my gallbladder.  Guess I might need to get a second opinion.

[ShadowLin]

Good luck
I am so miserable with this! I now have a tearing type pain in my right side that goes through to my back. It woke me up last night and I was terribly nausiated. The doctors ran 700 dollars in tests and found nothing. I am still slighly nausiated today. I have noticed that when I eat the pain subsides a bit but gets full blown at night. I have no gall bladder. I feel bad most days now. I really do not know what to do anymore.
Rking, if it is your gallbladder....It will keep on bothering you until you will definitely know. Are you nausiated any. When my gall bladder had a stone in the duct..I would get really nausiated in the middle of the night and I could not get comfortable from the pain and bloating. Good luck with the paks and God Bless you

[rking]

No, I haven't been nauseated (as in throwing up) I have had severe bouts of stomach cramping and loose bowels after a high-fat meal from time to time. The pain in my side and back are still there. Like yours, it never truly goes away. The pain is more like a cramping pain. Remember when you were a kid and you'd get leg cramps or "growing pains" as they called them. They were sore, and almost had a sort of deep burning and stiffness accompanied with them in addition to just plain hurting? That's the kind of pain I'm having on the right side through to my back. The pain and stiffness are what wake me up every night. During the day, I go about my normal routine, but it's still sore. I really do think it's my gallbladder, but my doctor isn't convinced that's what it is.  I went ahead and started the prednisone in case it is some kind of inflammatory thing, but I'm not so sure....it's a 10 day regime where you take 4 the first day, 3 for 3 days after, then two, then one for a few days.  I figure it can't hurt to try it, since I'm running out of options here. I will say this....I took 40 mg (which I think is a lot of medicine) yesterday, and other than feeling somewhat hyper because of it, I still had the pain last night. Linda, what are they saying about your pain? What kind of tests did they run? I guess we are both learning why they call it "practicing" medicine. Because it's a process of elimination and second guessing. Let me know how you are doing. God Bless you too.

[randi]

I was diagnosed with multiple stones in March.  I am trying to wait until July for surgery.  Does anyone out there have a good feeling for recovery time and also how long the actual surgery took.  I can't stand anesthesia and was trying to avoid surgery by low fat diet and herbs, but I still don't feel so great.  Also, at the time of my diagnosis a small hemangioma was found on my liver.  Does anyone know if that effects the surgery at all.

Thanks

[ShadowLin]

My pain sounds just like yours. For months it was just an ache or heaviness. I would awaken at night and hold my side to turn over. I would notice it 24/7 but more at night. The last two weeks the pain is more pin like and has moved from the front right to the back right. I can put my hand on my lower waist about 3 inches below my waist band of my slacks, and it feel straight through.  I have no gall bladder. The doctors did a pelvic scan and an ultra sound...with all sorts of blood work. The one thing that is worrying me now is that I have been nausiated for 3 days. It stays with me daily and 3 nights ago I woke up and ran to the rest room to throw up.  Before, I would only feel nausiated occasionally and it would pass with a tums.
I know something is wrong and they will schedule a colon test.

The pain right now is in my lower right back and it feels pin like. I can live with it but I am just soooooo aware of it rking.

I hope you find out soon. Let me know how your medicine works. I am back on protonix for acid reflux. I will let you know how it works. My surgeon said that some people wiht pain like mine get better with  these meds.

God Bless you and hang in there.  I know how it feels to want to complain and everyone has heard it for over a year.
Lin

[rking]

It does sound like we are having similar symptoms....my biggest worry at this point is that having had the front right/back/side pain now since late August 2000 that whatever is going on will cause complications. What puzzles me is how can you be having gallbladder type symptoms without a gallbladder? I've read in a couple of medical books that in rare cases, gallbladder removal doesn't always clear up the cholesisitic pain. Sometimes it returns for whatever reason, without a gallbladder. I'd be very interested to hear what your doctor has to say.

As for my latest update...I'm a little tired. I haven't had a full night's rest since this began, and my wife is expecting any day now...so I guess sleep depravation will be a way of life for me for a while longer, but that's okay.

As far as the prednisone/prevacid treatments are going...  The 30mg per day of prevacid has completely taken care of the acid reflux/and the burning type indigestion pain I was having.  I'm due to move to a 15mg dose in about two weeks.  But the right side pain is still present (almost constantly now, and steadily increasing) I've taken predinsone before for sinus infection/inflammation and it doesn't take a whole lot of that cortecosteriod to get results if you have an inflammatory condition....as of today, I've had 120mg of the stuff in 4 days and I other than being a bit hyper, I could be taking sugar pills.  My sinuses clear and my joints feel great, however!  I really think my side pain is organ related, otherwise it would have noticed a difference with the prednisone by now.  I just need to ride this out a while longer until my wife delivers and things get a bit more settled.  I really don't think that the timing is good for us to both be in the hospital (if that's what it comes to).

I called my doctor again today and told him what was going on, and he wants me to come in again tomorrow.  I think he's as tired of seeing me as I am of seeing him (nothing personal either way) but it's definitely frustrating.

Keep me updated on what's going on with you, and I will let you know as well. Perhaps by sharing information we can both reach a cure soon.

Blessings.

[Patti-Lynn]

Thanks to all for posting comments.  It assisted me a little.  I have been sick for nearly three months with similar symptoms.  Epigastric pain with eating or without, stabbing pain in the middle of my back, nausea, violent vomiting, and a constant pressure in my chest.  I had two ultrasounds which were both normal.  No gallstones or blockages.  I finally had a HIDA scan performed which showed no intake and a something referred to as 7%.  The surgeon suggests a cholecystectomy.  Does anyone know what no intake is, and I am assuming that the 7% means that my gallbladder is functioning at 7%?  By the way, I personally thought that the second portion of the HIDA scan was horrible...made me very ill.  I cannot get in contact with my PCP or my surgeon.  I appreciate any answers.  Thanks.

[jimsel]

Your test results basically mean that your gallbladder is not working well.  I just had mine removed on May 8th (no stones) and I still don't feel well at all.  Of course, I got very ill several hours after the surgery and had to be hospitalized for several days.  I had a severe reaction to the anethesia and anti-nausea medication.  Plus, I was vomtining bile for a day.  However, these reactions are not common.  The air they pump up your abdomen with is a real pain.  It takes severals days for that to resolve itself.  For me, I just can't get my digestive system to kick in.  I am having a lot in belching and bloating.  I don't feel like the surgery was worth it at this point.  Although, for some people it can be along time for their body to adjust to not having a gallbladder any longer.  

If you do have the surgery, just be prepared for all the possiblities.

[Patti-Lynn]

Thanks for your comment.  Today is not good, I am very ill and contemplating having the surgery performed.  I too have difficulties with anesthesia and will probably react in the same manner.  Good luck and thanks again.  I appreciated it.

[rking]

Patti-Lynn:
Gallbladders are tricky to diagnose because they effect each person differently. As far as surgery goes, 85% of the people who have their's removed do fine.

Jimsel:
It's going to take some time to heal....regardless of the simplicity of the procedure, surgery is invasive. You just had an organ removed that was tied into you whole digestive system, and while you were in surgery (and for a while after)your whole system was completed sedated, that's a shock. Also, different people have different reactions to the anesthesia and the meds that they are given, so give it a little more time, and I believe things will level out for you. There are more people glad they had it done than not.

Patti-Lynn:
As far as the hida scan goes...the 7% means that you gallbladder is ejecting bile at only a 7% capacity. The lack of infusion (intake) means that nothing's going in it either.  Basically it's not working at all, so whatever's in there is kinda stagnant at this point, and there's a good chance it's diseased.

I'm going for my 3rd ultrasound in six months on Monday. My doctor thinks it is my gallbladder, but all the tests are within normal limits or "inconclusive", so if I'm going to get approval from insurance, I need more in their opinion than just an educated guess from my doctor.  Personally, I know it's my gallbladder, I just can't get the darned radiology department to get an accurate reading....these things do happen, though, so it pays to be persistant.

I wish you both well, and hope you are both feeling better soon.

[Patti-Lynn]

Thanks so very much for taking the time to post a comment.  I had my gallbladder removed on 3-22-01.  To be honest, I felt different the moment that I woke up...I didn't have that intense pain between my breastbone.  It really amazed me.  It's been two days post-op and other than the usual, I feel great.  I am hoping that I NEVER have to experience that type of discomfort again.  

They also used some new type of anesthesia on me and I didn't have the typical reaction that I am used to.

Sorry to hear about your HMO.  I really dislike managed care.  Thank goodness for regular Blue Cross & Blue Shield.

I hope that you eventually have your cholecystectomy.  So far, I am pleased with my results.

[rking]

Glad to hear you're doing better.  I did have my ultrasound, and this time, in addition to the two small polyps it also showed some sludge or tiny stones.  Since my gallbladder is functioning at a normal level,my doctor has put me on Actigall - a drug that dissolves stones and sludge, instead of recommending surgery at this time. I've only been on it for a few days, so I really haven't noticed a big difference yet.  I haven't had any more attacks, but I'm still having the back/side pain (soreness and stiffness) at night, but I'm sure that if the medicine works, this should be relieved in time.  I've got to stay on the medicine for a while (1 to 3 months) so it evidently takes time to dissolve this stuff.  I'll keep you posted.  I hope you continue to improve!

[Dani]

Hi,
This is to everyone who is talking about undiagnosed right quadrent pain that seems like gallbladder. I have had many of the same problems for the past 4 years. 3 years ago I had my gallbladder out because of a low ejection fraction (11%). I ended up in the ER 3 days after the surgery with the same pain. After many, many, many tests and procedures I finally found a great doctor who diagnosed me with Sphincter of Oddi Disease. This is where the bile duct opening can spasm shut, which basically blocks the bile duct the same way that a gallstone does. You get the same symptoms. I have been treated through ERCPs where they can cut the muscle open. The first time I had it done I was so relieved with the relief of pain. I had been having pain for 2 1/2 years before I could get a proper diagnosis. I am now learning that the SOD can be present before a gallbladder is taken out or it can be caused by the removal of it. Please let me know if I can be of further help to anyone with similar problems or if anyone has experience the same things. It is terrible to not feel well and to now know why.

[rking]

How did the doctor arrive at the Sphincter of Oddi Disease diagnosis, and how did he treat it? I've never heard of this before.  Also, this may account for the many many people who have had their gallbladders removed but still have symptoms months and years afterwards.  Also, did you have a lot of back pain/stiffness on the right side with this?  I'd be interested in your response.

[Dani]

I think that you are so right...I believe that this is the reason that so many people have continued to have pain after having their gallbladders out. I'll try to keep this post short, but the story is long..hope to not bore you
I finally had the SOD (sphinc. of Oddi disease) diagnosed by a wonderful doctor who specializes in biliary tract disease. I know of 3 places that have special programs like these, Cleveland Clinic, University of Michigan and UCLA hospitals. MY doctor trained at U of M. I went to at least 6 doctors who couldn't find anything wrong and kept telling me I had irritable bowel disease and was just stressed. I kept saying that I wasn't any more stressed than any normal person would be after having pain for 2 years and not gettting a proper diagnosis. Like you I knew that there was something more. I also had several tests...EGDs, colonoscopies, MRIs, CTs, biopsies, barium swallows, etc.... and nothing wrong. I even had an ERCP with manometry ( where they measure the pressure in the bile ducts) at Uof M hospital and they couldn't help me either. I finally went to the doc I see now and he started tracking my liver and pancreatic blood values. After every episode of severe pain I would have blood drawn. These tests started showing a pattern of being elevated almost every time. THis means that there is a temporary blockage in the duct which causes backflow of bile into the liver and pancreas. Feels just like gallstones.
Anyway, I had/have the pain just like you. Pain in the upper right abdomen, chest, right shoulder and through the back. The back is there almost constantly. It also keeps me up at night, that's the worst. Right now it is 4;45am and I'm up because of the pain.
Told you this was long...
The treatment is with ERCP and sphincterotomy...where they cut the sphincter muscle so it stays open all of the time. I have had this done 4 times, because it keeps scarring over. I have also had a stint put in. DOn't worry though, this is not the norm, most people get relief after the first procedure. Only about 1% scar over. I had the last procedure Feb 28th and for the first time in 4 years I was pain free. It was great! Unfortunatley, my liver tests are up again and I have pain again so I go back in the hospital next Friday to have it done one last time. If this doesn't work there is a major surgery to fix it.
I don't want to sway you any way..but you might want to consider all of this before you have your gallbladder out. I really feel that I didn't need the surgery, as I was in the ER with the same pain 3 days after I had it. I have read alot about this (SOD) and am reading that there are lots of people who have their gallbladders out when they didn't need to.
One more thing...I know that sludge can cause problems in the duct, if SOD is present.
Please let me know if I can help any more. I'm on a misson to help people with similar problems, because so little is know about it and I know how hard it is when you don't feel well and know one can find anything wrong with you.
Hand in there...and good luck.

[Dani]

I see that you posted awhile ago, so I hope you read this. I would love to cht with you, as I have had some of the very same problems. I am going in for my 6th ERCP (in 1 1/2 years) next week. It will be my 4th time for sphincterotomy/stint. The most recent one was in FEB. I guess I am looking at surgery if this doesn't work. What happened with you. Did you need the surgery? I have never talked with anyone who has had as many ERCPs. I would love to hear from you.

[MARYC]

i hope that this message board is still read. I had a hidascan done July2001....and my GB function is only 22%...but what is weird is my pain is in the middle to left section...sometimes my right but mostly below the breat bone to the back.....I heard the a ERCP test can sometime locate the blockage and correct the problem. Has anyone had this procedure done and did it help?? Or does 22% functionings mean the GB need to be taken out...Thanks MaryC

[MARYC]

i hope that this message board is still read. I had a hidascan done July2001....and my GB function is only 22%...but what is weird is my pain is in the middle to left section...sometimes my right but mostly below the breat bone to the back.....I heard the a ERCP test can sometime locate the blockage and correct the problem. Has anyone had this procedure done and did it help?? Or does 22% functionings mean the GB need to be taken out...Thanks MaryC