Aa
Can I give pedialyte to my JRT in renal failure?
Bailey has stopped eating all together. She vomits up everything she tried to eat. Now she just doesn't try anymore. I have given her some peptol bismol to help stem the nausea and tried to get her to eat a special dog food from the vet to no avail. I also know that she's now dehydrated and she will gulp some water and then go outside to vomit it up. I've read that Pedialyte is safe for dogs. How do I get her to drink it? And how much is appropriate for a 4 year old 14 pound Jack Russell?
Attached is my post from a couple of days ago to give you some additional information on what's happening.
Thanks.
Reversible Renal Failure?
by dezusa
Jul 02, 2008 09:39PM
We were told yesterday that our wonderfully spirited Jack Russell terrier was somehow poisoned and has been diagnosed with acute renal failure. Our Bailey is only 4 years old. The vet kept her overnight, flushing her system in the hopes of lowering her B.U.N. level, which is 91. We were contacted today and told we could bring Bailey home. She still has a catheter in her forearm with some kind of medicine drip that we were told we could take out tomorrow. The vet also gave us a syringe with vitamin B in it and instructed us to inject her with it before 12 noon tomorrow. The vet could not determine what caused Bailey's kidneys to shut down so he sent a blood sample to a univeristy lab for analysis. The vet told us he would call us with the results but that there could be a five day turnover. My questions are:
Why would the vet send our precious little one home when she is still unable to keep anything down? Did he send her with us to die at home where she is well loved? This is devistating to watch and know that there is nothing we can do to help her. Or is there? Can renal failure be reversed?
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by Jaybay
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Jaybay
Female, 45 years
Republic of - TX
Member since Jan 2005
Mood: Jaybay is going to dog school tonight.
Journal Entry: "I suppose it could be worse news, but it ..." [Read]
, Jul 02, 2008 10:02PM
To: desuza
I'm so sorry to hear about your poor pup. Kidney failure, whether acute or chronic, is one mean problem to deal with. The problem with kidneys is that once the tissue is damaged, it doesn't heal. New cell growth doesn't happen like say, with the liver or skin.
With an acute case, obviously you have to treat the underlying condition to stop further damage. The idea is to keep the damage from getting worse. Depending on the toxin, it may not be possible to stop. Without at least some idea of what she may have ingested, i can see why it would take several days to complete the lab work.
If your dog can keep water down, then I can understand sending her home. Dogs can go a few days without food, but not water. It does seem a bit much to ask you deal with catheters and injections at home though. On the other hand, some dogs just seem to recover better at home than in a hospital setting.
Did your vet give you any instructions as to what constitutes an emergency? For instance, if she can't keep water down for X hours or has excessive vomiting to call him? Is he giving her anything for nausea or does he want to wait until he knows exactly what he's dealing with?
Nausea and vomiting are very typical for dogs in kidney failure, and it can get pretty extreme. In fatal cases, the textbook patient will also have some mental changes. When the unfiltered toxins get to very high levels, they cross the blood-brain barrier and the dog may not even be aware of anything at that point. I so wished my old dog had been granted that blessing, but she was fully aware until the end.
The only "good" thing about kidney failure is that it really isn't a painful condition. Miserable, but not painful.
I wish I could be more encouraging, but the truth is that your dog is very seriously ill. I pray the vets get to the bottom of it very soon and stop the damage in its tracks.
Please consider copying and pasting your post in the Ask a Vet Forum here at Med Help. I'm sure Dr. Cheng can give you much more detailed information than I have, and she'll probably have some good ideas regarding supportive care for you.
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by dezusa
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dezusa
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, Jul 03, 2008 10:44AM
To: Jaybay
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Jaybay
Female, 45 years
Republic of - TX
Member since Jan 2005
Mood: Jaybay is going to dog school tonight.
Journal Entry: "I suppose it could be worse news, but it ..." [Read]
Thank you so much for your response. I needed to hear what you had to share.
Our vet is rather old, but I believe him to be a kind and decent person. He did not give us any instructions regarding emergencies or any anti-nausea medicine. He told us he would call us in the morning. Which he did. He informed me that Bailey's B.U.N. levels did not go down after flushing her system. Her level is very high (still at 91) and he believes her to be in total renal failure. He suggested that we give her very small amounts of water and or low fat milk when I informed him that I stayed up all night with her because of her shaking tremors and vomitting. She could not even keep water down. Before he hung up he also stated that he would call us when he received Bailey's lab report and I asked him if Bailey was dying, if renal failure is reversible, and if she was in any pain. He replied: Yes, she is dying; renal failure is not reversible - it's fatal - and that she cannot recover from it; and that Bailey may have some small amount of pain but we would never know it because the JRT is a very tough breed and would probably not show us any outward signs of pain. I believe that no animal should suffer - not even a little bit - when there is no hope of recovery.
All my family does around her is cry and I think this reaction is causing sadness in Bailey, I can see it in her eyes. I think that my husband needs to try to keep things more normal around the house so Bailey would be happy and not appear to have "given up the fight". But he won't eat until she can eat and when he starts crying the rest of the household follows. Except me. I am trying to remain strong and only let it out behind the closed bathroom door. I take Bailey outside and have her walk around a little. Exercise can't hurt her. She is a avid swimmer and swam laps in our pool along myself or my grandson every day, weather permitting. The vet said if Bailey wants to be in the pool that I should let her. But my husband thinks that maybe she was poisoned by the chlorine in the pool water. I don't know what to do. I am trying to stay positive around her.
My mother stopped by last night, bringing some holy water blessed by the church, and we sprinkled some on Bailey and said a few prayers to St. Francis of Assissi (sp?), the patron saint of animals. But this made my husband upset.
Is there any way of knowing how long Bailey will still be with us? Our vet only said that the time varied. But what does that mean? And if Bailey isn't showing any outward signs of pain is euthanasia still a kindness or is it a cop-out?
I don't know how to "copy and paste" my post in the Ask a Vet Forum. But I will give it a try.
Again, thank you so much for sharing your insights.
Attached is my post from a couple of days ago to give you some additional information on what's happening.
Thanks.
Reversible Renal Failure?
by dezusa
Jul 02, 2008 09:39PM
We were told yesterday that our wonderfully spirited Jack Russell terrier was somehow poisoned and has been diagnosed with acute renal failure. Our Bailey is only 4 years old. The vet kept her overnight, flushing her system in the hopes of lowering her B.U.N. level, which is 91. We were contacted today and told we could bring Bailey home. She still has a catheter in her forearm with some kind of medicine drip that we were told we could take out tomorrow. The vet also gave us a syringe with vitamin B in it and instructed us to inject her with it before 12 noon tomorrow. The vet could not determine what caused Bailey's kidneys to shut down so he sent a blood sample to a univeristy lab for analysis. The vet told us he would call us with the results but that there could be a five day turnover. My questions are:
Why would the vet send our precious little one home when she is still unable to keep anything down? Did he send her with us to die at home where she is well loved? This is devistating to watch and know that there is nothing we can do to help her. Or is there? Can renal failure be reversed?
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Member Comments (3)
by Jaybay
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Jaybay
Female, 45 years
Republic of - TX
Member since Jan 2005
Mood: Jaybay is going to dog school tonight.
Journal Entry: "I suppose it could be worse news, but it ..." [Read]
, Jul 02, 2008 10:02PM
To: desuza
I'm so sorry to hear about your poor pup. Kidney failure, whether acute or chronic, is one mean problem to deal with. The problem with kidneys is that once the tissue is damaged, it doesn't heal. New cell growth doesn't happen like say, with the liver or skin.
With an acute case, obviously you have to treat the underlying condition to stop further damage. The idea is to keep the damage from getting worse. Depending on the toxin, it may not be possible to stop. Without at least some idea of what she may have ingested, i can see why it would take several days to complete the lab work.
If your dog can keep water down, then I can understand sending her home. Dogs can go a few days without food, but not water. It does seem a bit much to ask you deal with catheters and injections at home though. On the other hand, some dogs just seem to recover better at home than in a hospital setting.
Did your vet give you any instructions as to what constitutes an emergency? For instance, if she can't keep water down for X hours or has excessive vomiting to call him? Is he giving her anything for nausea or does he want to wait until he knows exactly what he's dealing with?
Nausea and vomiting are very typical for dogs in kidney failure, and it can get pretty extreme. In fatal cases, the textbook patient will also have some mental changes. When the unfiltered toxins get to very high levels, they cross the blood-brain barrier and the dog may not even be aware of anything at that point. I so wished my old dog had been granted that blessing, but she was fully aware until the end.
The only "good" thing about kidney failure is that it really isn't a painful condition. Miserable, but not painful.
I wish I could be more encouraging, but the truth is that your dog is very seriously ill. I pray the vets get to the bottom of it very soon and stop the damage in its tracks.
Please consider copying and pasting your post in the Ask a Vet Forum here at Med Help. I'm sure Dr. Cheng can give you much more detailed information than I have, and she'll probably have some good ideas regarding supportive care for you.
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by dezusa
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dezusa
Female
Omaha - NE
Member since Jul 2008
, Jul 03, 2008 10:44AM
To: Jaybay
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Jaybay
Female, 45 years
Republic of - TX
Member since Jan 2005
Mood: Jaybay is going to dog school tonight.
Journal Entry: "I suppose it could be worse news, but it ..." [Read]
Thank you so much for your response. I needed to hear what you had to share.
Our vet is rather old, but I believe him to be a kind and decent person. He did not give us any instructions regarding emergencies or any anti-nausea medicine. He told us he would call us in the morning. Which he did. He informed me that Bailey's B.U.N. levels did not go down after flushing her system. Her level is very high (still at 91) and he believes her to be in total renal failure. He suggested that we give her very small amounts of water and or low fat milk when I informed him that I stayed up all night with her because of her shaking tremors and vomitting. She could not even keep water down. Before he hung up he also stated that he would call us when he received Bailey's lab report and I asked him if Bailey was dying, if renal failure is reversible, and if she was in any pain. He replied: Yes, she is dying; renal failure is not reversible - it's fatal - and that she cannot recover from it; and that Bailey may have some small amount of pain but we would never know it because the JRT is a very tough breed and would probably not show us any outward signs of pain. I believe that no animal should suffer - not even a little bit - when there is no hope of recovery.
All my family does around her is cry and I think this reaction is causing sadness in Bailey, I can see it in her eyes. I think that my husband needs to try to keep things more normal around the house so Bailey would be happy and not appear to have "given up the fight". But he won't eat until she can eat and when he starts crying the rest of the household follows. Except me. I am trying to remain strong and only let it out behind the closed bathroom door. I take Bailey outside and have her walk around a little. Exercise can't hurt her. She is a avid swimmer and swam laps in our pool along myself or my grandson every day, weather permitting. The vet said if Bailey wants to be in the pool that I should let her. But my husband thinks that maybe she was poisoned by the chlorine in the pool water. I don't know what to do. I am trying to stay positive around her.
My mother stopped by last night, bringing some holy water blessed by the church, and we sprinkled some on Bailey and said a few prayers to St. Francis of Assissi (sp?), the patron saint of animals. But this made my husband upset.
Is there any way of knowing how long Bailey will still be with us? Our vet only said that the time varied. But what does that mean? And if Bailey isn't showing any outward signs of pain is euthanasia still a kindness or is it a cop-out?
I don't know how to "copy and paste" my post in the Ask a Vet Forum. But I will give it a try.
Again, thank you so much for sharing your insights.
I hope what the vet gave Candy will help her somewhat. I think you should start your own thread, you might get some advice from someone that has already experienced what your going through. Good Luck.
I'm sorry about your Bailey. I just found out today my minature schnauzer, Candy's kidneys are failing, also that she has an enlarged liver and thyroid problem. All I can do is cry, she is my best friend. The vet gave her k/d food, an antibiotic, aluminum (something) and some type of gel stuff. She goes back Friday to have her electrolites checked again. She throws up yellow, sometimes it comes out her nose so I have to keep her nose clean or she can't breath.She won't eat and drinks very little and is not putting out much. She has trouble standing now.
I'm sorry, I had mistaken this message, I do know that you lost your Bailey, please forgive the prior message...
you can give the dog pedilight and even gatorade per my vet. my puppy had gastoentitis and we could not feed him for 3 days, that was the cure, but we could give him fluids and the doctor said if he could not hold down water to try non flavored pedialyte and gatorade if your dog lieks flavors. i am sorry you are going through this.
I absolutely understand waiting, and that's the horror of renal failure. It's up and down from day to day, then hour to hour. You'll know when the time is right. One thing that might help Bailey feel a bit better is calcium. It binds to phosphorus in the body and helps remove it. Phosphorus is bad news for any person or animal in kidney failure. Give her a couple of regular Tums daily and see if she doesn't perk up a little bit. It won't cure her or even improve her kidneys, but it does help with the overall misery.
If you'll check the earliest journal entries in my profile, you can read the entire story of Chica's last weeks. That will give you a better idea of what is to come. In the meantime, celebrate Bailey's good moments with her and remember them. :-)
If you'll check the earliest journal entries in my profile, you can read the entire story of Chica's last weeks. That will give you a better idea of what is to come. In the meantime, celebrate Bailey's good moments with her and remember them. :-)
Thank you again for responding, ma'am.
A couple of things to add:
Yesterday, I put my foot down with the family and told them they could cry all they needed to but they had to go to another room to do it. They were not allowed to be anything but comforting and "upbeat" around Bailey. This seemed to help Bailey to not look so sad.
Also yesterday, our vet called us and agreed that we should try some pedialyte to help replace the electrolites Bailey has lost from all the vomitting. He thought that this might give her an appetite. I immediately went to the store and purchased the unflavored kind, brought it home and, using an oral syringe doser, started wetting her mouth and throat with it. This seemed to help her. For the rest of the day, she got up on her own and went to her water bowl to drink. She wouldn't eat any of the "special" food presented to her but when I sat down by her with a hot dog she perked up a little and so I gave her some tiny pieces - which she ate and held down! She also ate a very small amount of the wet dog food I had also purchased (because it claimed that even the pickiest eater couldn't resist it - sad, I know, but I just can't bear to see her hungry).
She hasn't eaten anything since - except another little bit of hot dog - but she continues to get water on her own and takes the 1/2 teaspoon of Pepto Bismol every hour and the teaspoon or so of pedialyte that I gently squirt into her mouth to rinse the chalkiness of the pink stuff down. Am I fooling myself that she's fighting again?
She isn't gagging or vomitting when she goes outside to potty. But she isn't really going very much either.
I don't want to stop fighting for her if she is still fighting, you know?
I wanted to tell you that I can really appreciate how painful it is for you to relive memories of your Chica. And I want to say how very grateful I am to you for sharing your pain with me so that I can better understand what is happening with Bailey.
God Bless you.
A couple of things to add:
Yesterday, I put my foot down with the family and told them they could cry all they needed to but they had to go to another room to do it. They were not allowed to be anything but comforting and "upbeat" around Bailey. This seemed to help Bailey to not look so sad.
Also yesterday, our vet called us and agreed that we should try some pedialyte to help replace the electrolites Bailey has lost from all the vomitting. He thought that this might give her an appetite. I immediately went to the store and purchased the unflavored kind, brought it home and, using an oral syringe doser, started wetting her mouth and throat with it. This seemed to help her. For the rest of the day, she got up on her own and went to her water bowl to drink. She wouldn't eat any of the "special" food presented to her but when I sat down by her with a hot dog she perked up a little and so I gave her some tiny pieces - which she ate and held down! She also ate a very small amount of the wet dog food I had also purchased (because it claimed that even the pickiest eater couldn't resist it - sad, I know, but I just can't bear to see her hungry).
She hasn't eaten anything since - except another little bit of hot dog - but she continues to get water on her own and takes the 1/2 teaspoon of Pepto Bismol every hour and the teaspoon or so of pedialyte that I gently squirt into her mouth to rinse the chalkiness of the pink stuff down. Am I fooling myself that she's fighting again?
She isn't gagging or vomitting when she goes outside to potty. But she isn't really going very much either.
I don't want to stop fighting for her if she is still fighting, you know?
I wanted to tell you that I can really appreciate how painful it is for you to relive memories of your Chica. And I want to say how very grateful I am to you for sharing your pain with me so that I can better understand what is happening with Bailey.
God Bless you.
Oh, this brings back such awful memories of losing my dog to renal failure. From what you describe, I think it will be a great kindness to end Bailey's suffering now. There is absolutely nothing to be done to make her feel any better at this point. It sounds like she's in such total failure that even nausea meds won't help her now. Since she's not trying to drink and keep herself hydrated, she's given up the fight. You might try freezing the pedialyte and giving it to her in the form of ice chips.
When my dog got to the point of retching up nothing for 10 to 15 minutes at a time, we new that was it. About the same time she stopped eating and drinking as well.
I know this happened so quickly that you're still trying to process the idea that there is no hope. But there really is no hope now. All Bailey has to look forward to is feeling worse and worse, retching uncontrollably and death. If you can find an emergency vet clinic today, please consider putting her to sleep today if possible to spare her that last indignity. (Oh boy. I'm choking up and my eyes are watering just thinking about Chica and Bailey both.)
On the chlorine issue, I seriously doubt that it was the toxin that caused the problem. She would have had to eat the shock or the chlorine tabs, and that would have caused severe burning and bleeding in her esophogus and stomach. The fumes are enough to keep any dog from eating it. Our dogs swim in our pool, and have for years with no problem. (Chica's kindey failure was just a part of very old age, and possibly the melamine contamination from China before we changed foods.) Matter of fact, if you test your tap water, you'll find your pool water is exactly the same unless it's over-chlorinated it past 3 ppm.
By the way, I absolutely love what your mom did with the holy water. What a beautiful thing to do. :-)
When my dog got to the point of retching up nothing for 10 to 15 minutes at a time, we new that was it. About the same time she stopped eating and drinking as well.
I know this happened so quickly that you're still trying to process the idea that there is no hope. But there really is no hope now. All Bailey has to look forward to is feeling worse and worse, retching uncontrollably and death. If you can find an emergency vet clinic today, please consider putting her to sleep today if possible to spare her that last indignity. (Oh boy. I'm choking up and my eyes are watering just thinking about Chica and Bailey both.)
On the chlorine issue, I seriously doubt that it was the toxin that caused the problem. She would have had to eat the shock or the chlorine tabs, and that would have caused severe burning and bleeding in her esophogus and stomach. The fumes are enough to keep any dog from eating it. Our dogs swim in our pool, and have for years with no problem. (Chica's kindey failure was just a part of very old age, and possibly the melamine contamination from China before we changed foods.) Matter of fact, if you test your tap water, you'll find your pool water is exactly the same unless it's over-chlorinated it past 3 ppm.
By the way, I absolutely love what your mom did with the holy water. What a beautiful thing to do. :-)
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