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Can one negotiate with a dog shelter?
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Can one negotiate with a dog shelter?

Those who know me know our past dog Wilson, and our Foster dog Jasper that joined us Monday, 3 days ago, indeed at about this very hour last Monday.  Still working on house training even though he is at least 5 years old, he spent so much time in the shelter he forgot about going outside for the toilet.  We are making progress on stopping the "marking"....much on that discussion on another thread.

Looking him over I see tarter on the teeth, the fangs and can say he needs his teeth cleaned by a vet.  Some rescue advertise they do that if needed.  I'll check their claims... but

When, I don't think it is if, we adopt Jasper I am planningg to discuss the adoption fees and what veterinarian services are included, such as professional teeth cleaning.  I'd also expect to have a full blood test including heart worm...other worms. This may all be in their charter.  My question here is does anyone have experience/advice?

I'd expect to pay between $200 and $300 max for a mix breed adult dog.   This isn't enough to pay for the cleaning of the teeth, at least it isn't at my vet.  That may be because Wilson, a Westie Terrier wasn't about to "sit still" for anything as invasive as teeth cleaning, even nail trimming was a dangerous task.  I think Jasper is shy enough that if it is possible to scrape the tartar off without putting the dog under an anesthesia, the cost of just his runs several hundred dollars, the teeth cleaning closer to one hundred.  

I'll re-read their claims, some put in writing that they check the dog's teeth and do any cleaning/extractions that are necessary to yield a healthy dog of adoption.
14 Comments Post a Comment
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974371_tn?1364538460
Hi Jerry,
"most" rescues will have given shots up to date, worming, Heartworm testing, dental cleaning and extractions, if necessary. Most teeth cleanings need to be done under anesthetic so the area under the gums can be cleaned and they also need to get to the underside, not just the front.  I am sure you are seeing plaque build up on the Canines (fangs).
My Sheltie rescue and the Greyhound Rescue always covered these tests and procedures before the dogs were adopted out.  If I remember correctly, the adoption fee on the Greys was maybe $300?  I know they had to raise the fee as funds were getting low.  
So, review the contract and see what it says.  I assume he has a Vet check?  
Speak to them about the dental issue and see what they say.  Sounds like he probably needs one and maybe you can work something out with them.

Others here that do rescue may have some more feedback.

I know you are working on Jasper acclimating to your home,  2 weeks.
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Ask your own vet as well what they will 'donate'. Many vets are very accommodating to families rescuing dogs.  It's worth a try.  
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Thanks, I had a Westie with lots of allergy, teeth and skin problems.. I think I help pay for the building.

I read the rescue 501C(3) organization "charter' and it is their plan to offer dogs for adoption that are healthy.   That specifically included teeth, plaque removal and extractions.   I'll try to take a closer look, I think my foster is missing a number of teeth too.  I was told to feed him "small bites" from Wellness dog food.. I found "small breeds" which offers kibble small enough to digest without chewing.
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974371_tn?1364538460
Well, sounds like they should pay for a cleaning and I would take them up on that. Actually, if that is done and he needs his nails done, ask them to do it while he is under anesthetic.
Most adult dogs have 42 teeth, I say most because that can vary a little by breed, hereditary factors can cause missing teeth, etc.  they have their canines, premolars and molars, like us.  
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Ah, hit the wrong thing.
Yes, feed small kibble made for small breed dogs.  I add a bit of canned and a bit of water to the morning meal.  
I also get the medium size Bully sticks and toss them when they get too small.
Some dogs chew their food and some inhale it.  Like my son's dog!  I finally suggested he get a type of feeding dish that has channels in it like a maze to slow her down.  I always worry about bloat in the large breeds.  
I have a friend who has a Chi mix and another small mix.  When I babybsit them, drives me nuts!  The Chi mix woods diwn Her food, the other one, I kid you not, will take one piece of kibble, carry it across the room and eat it.  Makes me nuts and I swear I go gray waiting for her to finish but she has akways eaten like that.  LOL!
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When we picked Jasper up at the shelter the "in charge" called out a lady I take to be a part-time, or an unusually responsive volunteer to trim Jasper's nails.  She went to the floor pulling Jasper across her lap and "snip,..snip' done, she had a small jar/bottle with her, I suspect an anti-coagulant to stop bleeding if she hit a quick (not sure how it is spelled), she didn't.  It looks like I can trim his nails, but I thought the same thing about Wilson. He was very cautious around us the first month or two then his confidence built to the levell he'd stand "his ground" an any issue and literally fight me... I mean bite.   As our relationship developed I could trim a nail or two, then he'd grab my arm with his mouth, not bit, but his message was clear to me... I just had to "love" that hard--headed personality while also getting angry about it too.

I got the distinct impression on taking Jasper as a Foster, all the adoption work that was not done, or done again given his long stay there, would be done for an adoption, not for a foster.   Seems a little strange, and that's why I opened the question of negotiation.   From their written policy I think I can say I want to adopt Jasper and I ask that all the adoption work be done, and I'd hand a list that comes to my mind as a quote from their policy.  I know they are hard-put on funds, and I of course expect to make a donation, i.e., adoption fee to take Jasper as mine.

Funny, not sure but I think Jasper snapped at me tonight.  He was on my lap and his house lease was on and it had become entwined, he, me and junk on the couch.  I pulled on the leash and must have hurt him some way, pulled too hard on a leg or something, and he hit me with his mouth.  Maybe any breed will snap/nip, but I associate it as normal with a Terrier and never with a Golden Retriever. and somewhere in between for other breeds.   Still, I think the Chi is a rather passive, submissive breed... from the little I can remember from reading about them.  But, like the Westie, when he doesn't want to do something he will try to escape.  When I go for him with the "outside leash" in my hand he knows:  "oh, no, another trip out into the cold" and he starts to run away.  When Wilson did it I figured the fact he was deaf was why he didn't respond to my calling to him, well Jasper behaves the same way.  I don't think he knows his name, yet, but I know he can "hear a pin drop".  

He has not pooped to day, and he is now back in his crate and I think that's where he wants to be until tomorrow morning.  Do some thin/small adult dogs need to evacuate only every other day?  The two I have cleaned up looked very normal, large perhaps because it was for two days, but mostly dry but moist.. I observe because it was on a low pile carpet and even though I pushed it into a box to take it outside (rather than pick up like with a doggie bag) it left some marks on the carpet I had to scrub out.

Again, I think this guy is a big Chihuahua - but he is now demonstrating some independence I wouldn't have associated with the breed.  

I will also try what I did with Wilson, and he loved it..  I used a food processor to grind/chop his kibble with some fresh carrot, maybe some other vegetables like lettuce and cabbage. this adds some moisture to the kibble and makes it very digestible without any chewing.

Wilson, and Jasper too, like to take one piece of food, even small kibble, and take a couple of steps back from the kitchen onto the dinning room carpet.. so I am forever working to get the stain spots off that carpet.  I thought strange, the Jasper too, and now i read you have seen the same thing.  Wilson never gulped his food unless he manage to get into a dish of food for a house-guest dog that may have been just kibble or kibble mixedd with canned.   It was a race to see if I could get it away and up before he gulped the whole dish full.  Because of his food allergy concerns, Wilson didn't get the same kind of foods the guest dogs ate and his nose told him "OH BOY" something new.  He liked variety.Wilson was a very lovable "stinker". ... lots of personality.    
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974371_tn?1364538460
Nice he let her cut his nails,mope that continues. She probably had some Quik Stop.

The rescue groups usually do or offer to civer costs such as food, shots, Vet care, etc unless the Foster home offers to do so like us not charging for food.  Basically, you are offering a much needed service to the She,ter by fostering in a home environment and getting the dog out of the kennel.  This often helps them see what the dog may be like in a home environment as compared to a kennel.
Once the dog is officially adopted to a new home, the new owner assumes the expenses unless, in some cases, it is discovered the dog possibly had a pre-existing condition. There is another thread going similar to this on a dog bought from a pet store.

He may have snapped at you and something you need to watch for.  This is not acceptable and warrants a correction of "Easy!" Or "No biting!"  I have had to work with ours here and I have had her since she was 4 mos old.  She can get excited playing and doesn't bite aggressively but will put teeth on your hand.  I will correct her and she will start licking my hand. It is just ongoing.  Most Chihuahuas I have been around are seldom passive.  Many think they are Rotts!!  And I see you are playing "Catch me if you can".  My husband has little control over our dog and she knows it.  If he is going to take her for a walk, and she loves her walk, she will not come to him most of the time to get her sweater and leash on so he comes find me.  She minds me 90% of the time.  Mostly my fault because I have not had the time to train her better.  That's why I suggested starting some command training.  Does he pay attention to you when you talk to him or say his name? If so, that's good. Have 2-3 training sessions a day, no more then 10 mins to start.  Begin by getting his attention, have treats.  Start with one command like "Sit". When he does , reward, etc.  our dog knows "Let's do tricks!" She knows she will get treats and we go through her variety of tricks. Point being, you are the Alpha and this is what you expect him to do.

A couple of days without having a BM isn't a big deal.  By the third day, it should be addressed.  Yes, again, try leaving it in the yard fir a while and take him around that area.

Jasper eats like that too??!!  Oh, I'd return him.  Makes me crazy!  Lol.  I am sure, at least in part, they do that out of some recessive dog trait.  Dogs in the wild, as many animals do, (and you have seen this on TV) will go to a kill or food source, try to grab their share and take off with it so they can eat!  I'll be damned if I could ever convince those types of eaters here that the food bowl was not going anywhere.  Our Grey used to "graze".  Our dog now looks for tidbits from my husband and mother
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Jerry~~ The Shelter Policies Or Any Rescue's policies should be very cut & dry and already of paper....Each should state what medical has been done....
Adoption fees should already be stated, also....

A City Shelter normally does nothing...There are just too many animals, so it's not possible....The will however, reimburse you whatever fee they charge (Usually around $50) once you show proof that you have had the dog, Spayed or Neutered.....That's all they offer...

A Rescue however, already has adoption fees in place....It will list on their application what has been done (Medically) to any particular dog....They normally follow a strict routine and the Adoption fee should already be stated!!!

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Sorry, reading the last post and my last post, I probably worded that incorrectly.
Rescue groups will usually do all the Veting prior to adoption, not a Shelter or "kennel"?
Yes, our adoption fees were stated but there were a couple of instances where the adoption fee was negotiated a bit.  However, their expenses are so high, this is seldom done.
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I'll take another look, as stated the subject rescue 501 C(3) organization has a policy to put up only healthy dogs for adoption.. nothing said about taken as a foster animal, our case at the moment.

I don't recall seeing any posted adoption fees, but that may be on the application, my last look was at their "Charter", "Policy", "Rules"... whatever, nothing about foster "benefits" (what they pay for) or adoption fees.

I have no objection to making a contribution of $350 seems on the high end, being the organization is a 501 C(3).  But, I'd expect to get the same consideration when I adopt a my fostered dog as I would get if I said I would like to adopt the same dog they or someone else was fostering..  

I appear my whole question about negotiation is off the mark.. the policy seems to be to deal with the dental work needed, my view after a brief inspection of his K9 teeth. I asked in the context of me paying the "regular" adoption fee.   I'm not looking for any credit for fostering, albeit I'm going though the battle to house train the dog.  Again tonight, at the expected time he hit the fire place hearth (level with the floor, made of brick) not more than minutes after we were outside taking a long walk.  He was going on 48 hours since his last BM and he ate over a quarter cup this morning and this evening of food processor chopped Kibble and raw Carrot.  Something Wilson (our recently lost dog) liked... so did Jasper (current).  So I knew he was "loaded" and the BM on the hearth confirmed that....he has a healthy digestive system.  I guess he has spent so much time in the shelter doing his business on the concrete (assumed) floor of his chamber.  I was not given access to the holding area, and refer to what I have seen elsewhere.

When I fed him dinner at about 3:10 PM, had to pick up my wife from chemo at about 4:00 PM,  I waited about 15 minutes or so then took him outside to walk along a south facing hillside where all the snow had melted.  We were outside more-or-less as he directed (I followed him with only minor directional adjustment).  He marked or did a brief urination three or so times.  He seemed very comfortable (about 35 degrees) and interested in sounds and smells.  

Then before dinner at about 5:15 PM I took him out again - same but shorter route as it was after sunset.  No BM.. but within minutes of being let "loose" dragging his indoor leash he hit the hearth.  I showed my displeasure even though I didn't catch him in the act.. he knew.  I put the single rather long (at least 4") **** out in the same area of the yard I am trying to get him to use.  

He did not seem uncomfortable with the temperature outdoors, he seemed to enjoy the walks, but no BM... the BM on the hearth was large for such a small dog, IMO, and relatively firm and easy to push onto a piece of cardboard. He clearly was loaded when we went out before dinner.  

Why he would not drop it outside is about more than I can understand....I'll keep working on it.  He does seem to be a BM every other day schedule, which I think is not a healthy schedule, but he is eating about half what I think he should... his target weight is between 12 and 15 pounds (my guess based on his picture on the Web which stated he was 15 pounds) and the fact he looks slim.  The shelter manager also told me 1/2 cup of Kibble morning and evening.  
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1/2 Cup (Twice a day) of any good brand of dogfood (Like Wellness) is plenty for a 15 lb. dog.....It actually, may be too much!! You'll have to base that on his waist line in the future.....

Requirements for rescues & shelters:
Basic would be Rabies Vaccine AND a Spay/Neuter (This is the law)

Other services provided through rescues would be all health problems addressed, vaccines, worming , HW check & started on preventative, and a dental would be optional....For rescues that offer dentals in their package, it should already be reflected in their Adoption fee.....
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When we worked with the Grey rescue here, all the dogs got dentals.  Most of the dogs coming off the tracks have horrible dental issues the older they are.  We were lucky that we had a Vet that did the dentals for us and really gave the group a break!  
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Jetty,
You fed him at 3:10 and again at 5:15?
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Good, Jasper doesn't want more than about 1/2 cup a day.  it was my practice with Wilson, at about 20 pounds, to use a 1/4 cup for kibble.. I'd add some canned food...and at the end went to more of a home brew:  food processor chopped 1/4 cup kibble, a few slices of carrot (much less than kibble) and maybe some other vegetables.  He'd ofter get cooked back beans and the juice plus some water -- all this is on my transition plan for Jasper.  So far he likes the kibble carrot but not crazy about it.  He isn't 15 pounds, the picture of him on the web I provided elsewhere on this community shows a much "fuller" looking dog.  Jasper now would have to be considered slim/thin an about 10 pounds.  He is nearly 12" at the shoulders, or twice the size of a "normal' Chihuahua, clearly he is a mix but I can't figure out what the other part is, but Paramecium (per web) doesn't look right to me.

Margot, I'd have to go back and re-read, you know I don't do that by the number of spelled correctly typos, but my 5:15 PM should have referred to my last trip outside with him just after sunset here. It was still warm enough that he wasn't in a rush to get back into the house, but he do not have a BM...then the timeline should indicate when we came in I put him on this "inside" leash to drag around while I made a salad....but while trying to keep an eye on him it was almost exactly (schedule developing) 48 hours since his last (in the MBR which now has its door closed.  So, while doing this I was too distracted to watch the clock, but I think to a good estimate it was less than 5 minutes that I made another walk-around to see what he was doing and had been and I spotted the deposit on the fireplace hearth and the obviously nervous behavior.  As I said I immediate picked up his inside leash and pulled him over to the hearth, showed him the (happily) single large solid ****, spoke NO, NO and then used some cardboard to scope it up and take it outside to deposit in the neighborhood of the last dump there from two days earlier.  I did not take him outside at that time, but he saw me taking the newspaper outside and I think he is rather bright... and from his many domestic and "cuddle bear" behavior traits and negotiation on furnature it is clear he had a home before he ended up in the shelter.  I'll ask the shelter manager to share with me whatever written file they have on him..he is, again, a foster with me at this time.

On food/water, I find he drinks much less water than our Westie did, far less.  I also believe I have to hive him some dry kibble to eat to help clean plaque off teeth.  

He remains spry and playful and very loving, even a bit too much.. in fact he just jumped up on the couch and is about to sit on my keyboard.

More later
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