Older Puppy People Agression/danger, HELP!

Ive a service dog in training who is Very Important because hes been predicting seizures and alerting others to them since 5 months old. whos 8 months now.

Hes fear aggressive Id say. Mixed with the over protective, and slight anxiety.

He Will Not stop growling out of no-where at guests, in a church, the movie theater if someone comes up the steps, at crying children or people who dont approach him with confidence. This started at roughly 6 months old.

EVERYTHING Until now has been based on POsitive Training. Treats etc.

Ive never delt with a dog that wouldnt Stop with a harsh slap for such dangerous behavior at the Worst. I even resorted to frying him with a hunting dog collar at one point, at the movies. it made no real change. And trying something like that carried 1 particular concern, that hed associate the strangers with the result.

I can hold his mouth shut, slap him, all but outright yell at him, none works. Im not a beginner stupid kinda person in relation to dogs. Im not a Mean kind of person who beats an animal either, But I take it Very Serious when my dog starts behavior that can Ruin my life and Traumatize others.

Im looking into some books, as Ive tried contacting that Cesar guy with NO response what so ever. None of his books are labeled to Treat Problems as this, so I dont know Which if ANy to buy.

My dog apparently has some Dominance Issues. Fear, and Insecurity. Hes obviously thinking he tops me as Top Dog still. And I do many Passive domination things. And at times, have pinned him on his back or side to assert my self.

The last time he pulled it I sent him to his bed for it, as harsher methods failed. And thats where he spent the remainder of my guests presence in my home. Alone in my room with nothing positive for him to do, and the door shut. Perhaps he will learn that behavior only gets him removed from Me and People, as a means to deal with it.

for now Im Ordering The Cautious K9 book.

Another question I cannot get an Answer for is This:

I Had a bf, but he insisted on teaching my dog things I didnt approve of, as he decided it wasnt an issue.

Play biting, jumping up, hiding behind him when I stepped in to Stop it,  grabbing my dog by the neck and encouraging him to try to fight him off and bite him. Now hes packing and moving out because I had enough of his crap.

But my dogs now aggressive towards Men mostly. People say remove the BF, but that Dosent Fix the Problem hes caused. It Avoids it.

The pup saw him as the play partner, benieth him in the pack, and yet, when defying me, he ran to the instigator as tho I was not Alpha Dog. Saw the play buddie as a License to throw all manners out the window. In Home and In Public. SO I forbade him from so much as Looking at my dog, let alone touching him.

But when my dog recently tried to pull that with a male friend of mine it showed even more need to Find a way to Stop such attempts. Attention Seeking with the male guest as well. Trying to inch over to him etc. He has to live on a leash now. Its most inconvenient :( and a head collar that turns into a keep the jaw shut muzzle in public.

This Dog Knows Better.

He awoke aggression in my pup, now its a danger. How do I Stop This?

I Cant find a Do's and Donts guide line for service dog pups and your friends/family any place. Youd Think that would be a Number 1 kind of document. Not even anything of any worth in the 2 Service Dog books Ive ordered. Nor the guide dogs way, for puppy raising. Its Kinda like Hello People?

the boy friend has cost me dearly-not that it matters for him. hes normal. he dosent Loose anything. He drives, has a job, has more of a life then I can currently. He just succeeded for now in trapping me in my home whether hes in my life or not.

I feel its highly likely the bf has ruined my Service Animal. But IM Hoping thats not the case, because With him, goes my future in public and potential falls from seizures etc. You can teach any dog to Respond to a seizure, but you cant teach them to Pickup in advance and warn of an Impending one.


He also thinks if the guy picks up a toy or bone he needs to get up and try to take it back, like the guys another dog. How do I handle that? He gets to keep the dogs toy and the dog dosent get it back until its not an issue anymore-ie obsessive whining etc. I dont let him just get up and go grab it when the guy leaves the room either. He has to wait for it or next time Ill just remove all his toys and asert that I Control Them, again.

Stupid Human!

yet this is a Common complaint of Women about their Men. If a guy cant raise a Dog, With me, theres NO Way Id even consider the Thought of Kids with that person. Theyd do the same bloody thing. Only then theyd be Ruining a Childs Life instead of an Animal.

So, Whos got What for Recommendations, besides, lol, killing the stupid human who caused the problem to begin with?


As well, Id higher a trainer, if I made more then 339 a month to barely live and keep a roof over my head, and could drive a car to the edge of town 30mins away.... Or had friends whod help. FOr those you need a social life.

grumbles, I just wanna put that shock collar on the human and use it every time hes stupid! and for pleasure UGH!

Im SO Frustrated!

[Jaybay]

Service dog or not, he's still a dog.  And being a dog you cannot treat him as if he lives his live with human logic, reason and emotion.  Sending a dog to the equivalent of Time Out for a child only makes him less socialized.  He doesn't know why he's been separated from his pack; he only knows he IS.

Hitting, slapping, shock collars, etc., are negative reinforcement consequences.  Do not fall prey to using these techniques.  Much as it might may you feel better, your dog won't learn anything from it.  Think about it.  Has he learned anything so far?  No.  That's why you're here.  :-)

While your boyfriend certainly did damage the relationship between you and your dog, it is not irreparable.  You mention that you've been training him yourself.  You need professional assistance and right now.  If your dog has not yet been neutered; he needs to be neutered now.  8 months is really too young to be a full-fledged, reliable service dog.  Most programs take one to two years for the dog to complete before they go into a home.

Your dog is protecting YOU in public.  He sees other people as a threat to you and is acting accordingly.  Again, you want to keep his attention on you - not them.  That means starting over at the beginning with positive training techniques.  Does he look you in the eye every single time you say his name?  Does he understand the command "work" or "working" means that he's on the job and must ignore every other distraction?

Your frustration is communicated to your dog.  He knows something is wrong but the signals he's getting from you are confusing.  You really need a veterinary behaviorist to help you communicate with your dog before you go any further with techniques that don't work.  There are so many things to look for, and without seeing you in action and your dog in person, there isn't  a whole lot I can offer online.

Do a Google search on "Amazing Dog Training Man".  Eric Letendre has a ton of videos on the internet that address everything from common behavior problems, to basic obedience training to teaching your dog simple tricks and agility.  He uses positive reinforcement techniques similar to the Dog Whisperer, Cesar Millan.  Have a browse through those videos (many are on his site and on You Tube).  It's back to basics for you both.  :-)

[rmjmj]

You can't teach a kid not to hit by hitting him the same apply to a dog. They learn just as children do by example if you talk to him and give him positive attention he will becomeore positive him self i suggest putting a loose muzzle on him while he is in public since he is demonstrating aggressiveness so no one gets bit but when he growls or behaves poorly place one finger on his snout and speak to him very softly tell him no and always use the same phrase when you correct him speaking softly calms his agressive or defensive mood and applying gental pressure with your finger shows him his tone was inapproperate always always use the same phrases wether you say bad dog or no or what ever choose one phrase and stick to it typically dogs have the ability to learn as much vocabulary as a three year old child you wouldn't shock a three year old for yelling at someone he didn't like would you

[skydnsr]

When you get upset when your dog gets protective, then he thinks there really was a threat.  Otherwise, why would you have reacted so emotionally?  

I recommend finding a professional trainer to help you work through this.  The services of trainers don't come free, but in certain cases, that is part of the cost of owning a dog.  Consider how much it will "cost" you, if your dog becomes dangerous to the public, and you have to have him put down.

If your dog is of a breed that has natural guardian instincts, he has a lot of stuff to sort through as he matures.  Eight months is right at the age when dogs of certain breeds start to "practice" their protective responses.  They have to have the right kind of ongoing socialization and training, in order to figure out how to manage themselves.  You want a dog that knows when to protect and when to lay back. The dog has to develop wisdom, if you will.  

Few teenagers have wisdom, and your dog is a young male teenager right now.  If you either over-react or ignore the mistakes of a teenager, you aren't helping him.  Everything can still work out okay in the end with this dog, but only if you know how to recognize and correctly handle his phases of development.  On the other hand, giving the dog the wrong kind of feedback could ruin him as both a pet and a service dog.  You need help -- immediate, expert help.

Look for a trainer who uses a counter-conditioning approach, which means teaching the dog to expect something positive in situations that right now are inducing the protective response.  If you give the dog a treat every time he sees a crying child or a person who doesn't approach him with confidence, for instance, then pretty soon he will start looking at you and being happy and relaxed whenever someone like that approaches you.  

Please get help.  In-person, expert help.  It could mean the difference between this dog's maturing into a valuable service dog and beloved companion, versus having to have the dog destroyed.  If the trainer happens to be familiar with Brenda Aloff's book, Aggression in Dogs, that is a good sign that the trainer knows what he or she is doing.

Good luck, and thank you for posting.

[AngelMyne]

i think thats one of the books ive ordered. along with Several others. one being the cautious k9. im looking around at trainers also.  hes also been left home the only 2 times ive been out in the past week or 2.

im getting so discouraged and so hateful of the ex. :'(

[skydnsr]

I'm glad you are seeking help.  This set of challenges isn't 100% your ex's doing.  I had some similar issues with my dog when she was at the same age as yours, and we worked through it.  She was never, ever mistreated, by anyone.  It was just a combination of breed-related behaviors and developmental stages.  

My dog is four years old now and is a totally safe dog to take out in public and to have around children.  Mind you, when I say totally safe, I mean that she is as safe as any dog.  Dogs are dogs, and you have to assume that any dog will bite, given the right set of provoking circumstances.  For instance, if my dog were to witness an attack on me, she would bite whoever attempted it.  But she is wise, and she doesn't go off half-cocked.  Also, I can stop her on command.

I believe you are on the right track in addressing this set of issues that you have with your dog.  It will be great if you can successfully keep the dog throughout his life, since he does seem to be able to predict seizures.  Some of his other qualities make him a very challenging dog, though.  I appreciate your open-mindedness and willingness to accept feedback.  Keep on seeking information and support.  

I agree with the other posters who have responded to you that painful training methods are not likely to be helpful.  Keep it positive.  That was your initial inclination with this dog, and I think that your first approach was correct.  You just got frustrated by some things that you didn't understand and couldn't control.

[skydnsr]

I don't own The Cautious Canine, but I looked it up on the internet, and I think it should be a helpful book for you.  I know that McConnell's other books are excellent.  She is very positive in her approach.  According to the review I read of The Cautious Canine, she does teach the counter-conditioning approach that I mentioned.

[AngelMyne]

I think I prefer this site, people are not nasty. and Possess a ballence between passion, common sense, understanding, and experience. I have not met so well in another forum.

Rather it seems with the 1 sided group that if you ever were to so much as raise your tone with a dog its abuse, I do believe... the extremists it would seem.

The plans to take him to a trainer this next weekend, and go from there.

Is your dog a service dog? or pet?

I know some people train SD's that also serve as personal protection dogs. I saw one once with a person in a wheel chair with a warning patch stating it on the harness/vest. I know its a controversial hot subject...

[AngelMyne]

I should note hes had only 4 or maybe 5 instances of growling. gods I wish Id of known how different training methods had become before this. and that the bf whod been my best friend for 6 or 7yrs was actually a controlling looser.... at least Ill never make the same mistakes with a dog ever again.

[skydnsr]

First of all, we will all make mistakes with all of our dogs.  Take that as a given.  Life is a learning experience, what can I say?

My dog is "just" a pet.  She does accompany me out in public quite a bit on a leash, and we go to the dog park together very often.  She is an Australian Shepherd from strong herding lines and has very high working drive and strong guardian instincts.  If I had known what I was doing when I got her, I would have known she was too much dog for me.  I had an Australian Shepherd from show lines before her, and it is as if the two dogs were from completely different breeds.  But this dog and I worked it out, and I wouldn't take anything for her.  She's mine, and I'm hers.

I do personally believe that negative feedback can have a limited place in dog training.  There are those who profess to use only positive methods, but it seems to me there is a great deal of efficiency and no harm in a well-placed glare and verbal reprimand, for instance.  Dogs' mothers use negative feedback when they are training puppies to behave right.  They growl, glare, show teeth, and grip with their teeth.  Dogs come into the world prepared to understand that kind of communication.

The key, if you are going to use negative feedback, is to set up the situation so that the dog totally understands why he got the negative feedback, and it was his choice to go that direction.  Of course, then you have to wonder, why did he choose it?  If you have to use negative feedback very often, something is wrong.  Either your rewards aren't good enough, or you haven't given the dog a full understanding of what he needs to do to get the reward.  

Ideally, we would all like to use only positive feedback, but this is the real world.  If my dog messes up when she knows better, I'm going to tell her.  But I may also have to go back to the drawing board on a training issue, because if I have to give her negative feedback, then it generally means that she wasn't really trained.  (If she had been well and truly trained, then she would have done right, by definition.)  I always try using better rewards, at that point.  I have to find and use something that is more rewarding than the "mis"behavior is.

Four or five episodes of growling is not a huge deal with an eight month-old puppy.  He is still learning when it is appropriate to growl and when it is not.  I would not reprimand him for that, right now.  Use common sense and separate him from any situation in which he could cause harm or be harmed.  Definitely do not hit, yell, or get upset, because that will just make him think there was something to growl about.  

If anyone torments the dog, especially when he is confined, stop them.  Remove that person from his space.  Let him see you do it, so he knows that you will protect him.  He is still a puppy, and he needs to be able to depend on his pack leader to take charge and handle a scary situation.  He shouldn't be in charge yet.  Actually, he shouldn't ever be in charge of making decisions about protection, because you are always going to be his pack leader, throughout his life.  The dominant pack member always gets to make those decisons.

Mainly, lets just try to understand the problem behavior for now.   Can you tell us more about the situations in which he growled inappropriately?  And may I ask what breed he is, and is he neutered yet?

[AngelMyne]

so, life and health kicked my butt again. but hope to have those links up for everyone soon.

an update on my dog, Hes gone in for 2 weeks pro training. seems his issues are fear based, and his 'fear stage'. trainer says hes been a dream to work with. So seems I havent done to bad of a job, and the issues she says are extremely easy to fix and should be quickly solved with a little planned exposure.

and at the end of 2 weeks, 1 week now, he will be ready to have and pass his good citizens test.

And when the time comes that she knows of a woman that will do the public access cert for 100 bucks!

She thinks he may have a vision issue in one of his eyes tho. But says he will make an awesome service dog.


She says Washington States considering the bill many have passed, that even a home trained service dog must be certified by some organization. Obviously Price is the BIG Issue for most of us with that bill.

When I find out if the ladys willing to do others dogs I will post about it. Seems others would love the opportunity Ive stumbled on to.


Its good to hear from a pro, that all the negative feed back I got in another place is a bunch of crap. And I dont have to just toss my dog and start over. I dont know how people can just go through dog after dog if one displays a trait that can be solved if they knew what they were doing... I couldnt emotionally handle that. Hoping for the perfect dog to drop in my lap rather then making the perfect dog.... It seems some people just dont want to do the work and would rather be lazy to me now.

I got in over my head with my dog tho, not knowing how much things have changed for 1, and then being ill prepared in the face of my disability... Id definitely recommend people look into a trainer First. Books, friends for help, cuz so much of their training needs another person involved. And organizations and Puppy Raiser Classes or being one First. Youd learn a world of wealth and have so many to help. Youd have to give the pup up, but then youd have the tools to train your own before ending up as I did.

And part of the problem Im told IS that hes Not Stupid. The Smarter the dog the more problems your gonna have because Challenging them becomes very difficult.