Showing an agrressive streak ?

[jimmysgirl]

Our loving , gentle german shephard gave birth to a female pup in sept last year , we decided to keep her as willow (the mum) had only one . So the puppy is almost 7-8 months old now . Since early on she loved to play quite agressively with mum but now as she gets bigger  mum just does not want to play as the pup can be EXTREMELY aggressive , and just generally annoying her . We have tried to curb this but , to no avail. She is mixed with a husky breed who and we know from him that he has an agressive streak in him . More worryingly , last weekend , my fiance went away for a fishing trip .i had her tied to her line in the front yard and when some small kiddies walked by she managed to pull and snap her line and ran up to the kids and father , the kids were terrified , although she seemed to only want to play , but because of her size , , this is not good . So having had to chase her down to get her inside , i finally put her in her crate (which we only have to use now when we go out somewhere and occasionally , the odd discipline issues ), when in there , i leaned in to her , and im ashamed to say i was quite angry , and i went to tap her nose and she bit me ..hard , and continued to try to bite me when i went to put my hand back to her to pull her out of there . Basiacally she was showing real threatining behaviour towards me and i had to tip her out of the crate to reprimand her . Afterwards she seemed to know that she had done really wrong , but it set off an uneasy feeling in me about her . So my question is .. could this have been acting up behaviour because my fiance was away ?  and is this a streak we can break ? she is tied up in the yard most days due to a busy road ,but we do take them for runs in a local field and river daily ,  and seems to behave ok when there . I really do not want to have to give up on her , but i am currently 18wks pregnant , and we really do have other issues to think about now , and are just worried in case this is just unfixable .

[skydnsr]

I agree with the comments of the other responders, above, so I won't belabor the points that have already been made -- except for one, about the tie-out.  I have to respectfully disagree with your veterinarian about that one, even though he is a great veterinarian.  You already have the evidence, from the incident with the children, that being tied out is a bad idea for this dog.  

Dogs that are tied out have no protection from being harrassed themselves, and yet they are restricted from either running away or fully protecting themselves.  Also, charging to the end of the line and then hitting the end of the tie-out is extremely frustrating to a dog.  So, being tied out is a set-up for behavior problems for many dogs.  I just would not do it, at least not as a routine method of confinement.  

There have been some times when my dog and I were staying as guests with people who did not have a fence, and I would tie her out for 10-20 minutes at a time to potty -- with me either watching her out the window or at least keeping an ear cocked, the whole time.  There have been a few other times, over the years, when I have tied my dog out for brief periods of time, such as that.  But as a regular thing, no.  

I don't believe that being tied out is an appropriate "lifestyle" for a dog, under most circumstances.  There are exceptions to everything.  But your dog doesn't seem to be an exception to this.  Fences are expensive, but IMO, fences are a necessity for dog owners, unless you have some little toy or miniature dog that only goes outside to relieve itself, and you take it out on a leash every time.  Having a fence is just part of the expense of having a dog, in most cases.

Some of the issues that you are having are breed-related.  I'm not saying anything bad about either the GSD or the husky breed at all, but the GSD has a very strong protective instinct, and the husky has a very strong prey instinct.  All of this can be managed, but only by someone who knows what they are doing.  This dog needs an expert owner, if the dog can even be re-homed at all.  

I think your concerns about the safety of the new baby are extremely valid.  Unfortunately, I don't know that this adolescent puppy can be made into a safe dog to have around a baby or child, at least not in time for your needs.  I urge you to talk to your veterinarian about options.  You might even print out the responses you got from this forum, send them to him in advance, and let him think about the situation before your appointment.  

You might also see if there is a GSD rescue organization or a husky rescue organization in your area, and tell them the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about this dog -- and tell them that you have a baby coming.

Good luck.

[Jaybay]

This is a simple behavioral problem that CAN be fixed.  Any learning that happens in a dog's brain must happen at the moment the behavior occurs; ideally corrections and rewards should happen at the moment the thought crosses his mind.

Right now, your dog simply lacks manners that he should have learned from his mother.  Have you ever watched how a mother dog disciplines an uruly puppy?  It looks really rough sometimes, but she makes it clear with her body and teeth that some behavior is unacceptable.  I've seen my dog flatten herself on top of a puppy until it stops being an idiot.  No teeth; no claws; no blood; just stop the behavior.

Your dog has a strong prey drive and saw the kids as prey.  That's why he took off after them.  That behavior can be changed.

As for the crate, unfortunately you unknowingly reinforced exactly the behavior you don't want: biting.  The time for correction is the moment he sees children; perks his ears and tail up and stares fixedly at them prepatory to the chase.  Anything after the fact means nothing to him.  

The crate is supposed to be a den.  The den is a place of safety and relaxation rather than punishment.  Placing him in the crate as punishment is the equivalent of putting a child in Time Out.  As you already know, Time Out doesn't work with dogs because they don't use reason like humans.

Tying a dog up isn't a great idea either.  Dogs who are restricted in that way tend toward more mental and behavioral problems than dogs who have a run or access to a fenced yard.

Your problem isn't hopeless at all, but I think you do seem some help from a professional veterinary behaviorist.  You have a large breed dog who has the potential to do damage simply due to his size, so you both need to trust each other.  Note that I mean "physical potential".  Many people make the mistake of assuming large, powerful breeds are "mean" or "evil" or worse, and it's just not true.  

If you're willing to invest the time and money into beginning a new relationship with your dog, you'll be amazed at the rewards and you'll have a loyal, gentle dog who will be your best friend in the world.

[AngelMyne]

You have children, I wouldnt take the risk. Your Dog, Should Never Ever Bite You! Your mates presence or lack there of should make NO difference.

If she bit your child, you would be charged with involuntary man slaughter at worst, and best your children would be taken away and traumatised for the rest of their lives in multiple ways.

She sounds like a bad breeding. Aggression it seems is 50 genetic. If you manage to keep her and fix this some how, its recommended to fix ******* approximately 3 months After their First Heat. No sooner or Later. Its their best optimum hormonally, their peak, physically and mentally.

It lends suspicion that your dog thinks shes the pack leader. If I had a dog bite me, Id sure as 'uh humm' beat the crap out of it until it stopped offering.

This Will Worsen. I think you could fix it-but dont yet know the tools to offer you. And not having the times another matter. You cant just sell her or giver her away as the next owner could sue You when she bites.

try tho, when shes to aggressive with the momma, putting the dog into a time out in her kennel. let her out and try again 10mins later. repeat until you get the desired behavior. Tell her gentle when shes to rough, as well, and praise her when she IS Gentle. I had to do that for a german shep to teach her to be soft with the puppy. It worked fantastic. And took a day or 2.

Maybe try fake eating out of her bowl before YOU feed her so she learns shes on bottom? And taking her bowl away half way through and making her wait and sit or lay down for it. little things like that? walking Behind you even on lead-to teach her She Follows in every sense. It will effect her manners. Make her think. I dont mean she Always walks behind you, but ask it on and off. It might prove useful?

The fact is she May never be truely sound. and only you can make the call. Its likely she will worsen with a new baby arrival.

Research some books on Amazon for people with kids, and problem dogs...

Its what Im now doing, as my dogs developed a beginning stage to, if not stopped, biting someone as well. Tho Id put him down b4 it reached that point.

Try a Head Collar, out of canada called The Easy Way head collar. It can be turned into a Muzzle. It takes some practice to figure out. but its maybe a right move for you. they are 50$

My pup, is a fear biter, when injured, I learned that first however, when spanking him for a potty on the floor when he was small. When he offered to bite me I beat the crap out of him for it. He never tried it again Until, his injury. but now, hes learned that to is unacceptable.

He was injured recently by running into a tree skeleton while playing. Dont ask lol- dog can trip standing still.... I did not beat him for it, I understood, But, I yelled at him. Then muzzled and treated the wound, and took him to the vet soon as I could in the am. Each time he thought about biting even tho muzzled I said No Bite very Stern. And turned his head back away from me.

he learned and stopped trying, and held him self in check every time I had to treat the stitched up huge owe he had. SO maybe something in that will help as well?

Im buying the book called The Cautious K9. Ive researched and scrutinized, maybe it will prove worth it. try looking into it also...

wish I had better knowledge to offer but as it stands I am at my own loss with how to deal with my own dog all the way also.

And mines not Just a Pet, hes my Future....  :(

[Lou Graham]

Hi jimmysgirl,
First of all congratulations on your pregnancy.
I have a BIG puppy, 16 month old St Bernard so I empathise completely. He wants to play and it can be scary to have a dog that size running towards you so you do have to be more careful than the average dog owner. When Spencer becomes over excited, and yes he can nip as easily as the next dog, I find that Putting him into a room on his own for 2 minutes is enough to calm him down then once he's released nobody talks to him for a further 2 minutes, he soon gets the message. I'm by no means an expert but I find it works for us. Good luck,
Lou

[jimmysgirl]

Thank you for your comments again , and i have to say , (i should have said before ) i did agree with a lot of your comments in your previous post and did take your advice seriously , but i just did not appreciate the tone in which you responded , its almost as if you think im not serious about the care and welfare of my animals . That is one thing i do not like about these posts , you can only explain so much about your situation , and people judge you on this on e statement . We are VERY dedicated to our dogs and put in a huge amount of time , love and energy to their care .
About the line , i took advice for that from my Vet , who , i have to say , in my opinion is wonderful at her proffession . I understand what you mean about dogs with agressive tendancies ,and this maybe causing future problems , but like i said before , this is the first time anything like this has emerged from her .And until she will listen fully and not be in danger of being hit by a passing car and being killed , i will continue to use this .But she is getting there , just not ready to take the chance yet . A behaviourist , im afraid at this time is just not financially feesible . But we are looking into some classes for her . I do feel personally about this like you said , its my baby puppy , and i love her , i want to know all i can do to help her , and not , like you seem to think im going to , just let her continue on this destructive path until i eventually put he down .
But , thanks for you advice , the constructive side was very helpful . But try to remember that people do take these things personally . I know there can be a lot of questionable posts put on these boards , but some of us are actually very serious and dedicated , even if we do need a little help with training and things along the way , and a lot of the time , no ,we do not know the exact proper solution for the problems that arise . Thanks again .

[peekawho]

First of all, I apologize for not seeing the part about the 2 hour daily walk.  My hat is off to you, that's an extreme amount of dedication and time to put in, every single day, day in and day out regardless of weather.  Good job.

Secondly, you did not read my post well, either.  YOU are the one who has a developing problem in the form of a shepherd/husky who snapped a tie out and ran up to children, a scenario that could have ended very differently. YOU said the dog bit you in the crate. YOU came here looking for some help.  I offered some suggestions.  YOU honed in on the suggestion about the walk and threw everything else away.

YES, get her fixed.  YES, work with an animal behaviorist or dog trainer.  NO, a tie out is rarely acceptable except for the BRIEFEST of times when there is nothing else you can do. Tie outs can make certain dogs more aggressive if they already have those tendencies.  If your dog can't be adequately trained and contained to where there is no risk to him/herself or anyone else, you do have a responsibility to rehome the dog before much more time passes.  You may not have the time for your two hour daily walks once the baby comes.  

Nowhere did I reprimand you.  If you read that, you must be feeling that way internally.  I offered suggestions for the sake of the dog, who if this continues on its present course and things worsen, will eventually have to be surrendered and destroyed.  It happens every single day all over this country.  The suggestions are also for the sake of your unborn child, who may be so unfortunate as to toddle up to the dogs dish or toy one day, and be bitten if the aggression becomes worse over time.  That happens every day, too.  

The fact that you had to ask if neutering might be helpful, and the fact that you
tried to put your hand into a crate while angry and "tap" the dog on the nose and got bitten....these are indications that you have a bit to learn about dog behavior and discipline.  If you can't accept suggestions such as these, what would you accept?  Someone telling you "don't worry, she'll grow out of it and everything will be roses and sunshine"?  
The crate idea is fine, but you should have just put her in the crate and let her calm down a bit.  A dog has NO IDEA what she did wrong even as little as 10 seconds after an incident.  She only knows that she was in her safe place, and you were angry and invaded her safe place to "tap" her on the nose.  And then tipped her out of the crate.

If you or anyone can come up with some great ideas, go for it.  This is a dangerous developing problem, and one that any honest person would tell you that you need some help with.  

Lose the attitude.  You came here for advice.  I'm sorry you didn't like it.  Good luck with your dog and your baby.  

[jimmysgirl]

Thanks for your comment previous poster , although im not sure you read my full post . We DO walk our dogs for at LEAST two hours daily to a field nearby and a river area a short drive away ,  this is a daily routine for us . So my dogs both get ADEQUATE excercise . I am well aware of there breed and their needs .The pup is on  a line right now as we live in a country cottage , which we cannot fence in (very hard to explain ) , so when they are outside she can run and play with mum and have fun . The way you decribed my POOR dog being tied up is not the case . It is an actual line recommended from a vet (35 feet long ) so she is by no means TIED UP !! The only problem with the first one we bought, it was for when she was smaller and therefore was not as strong . Thats why it snapped . And like i said before , she has her excercise with us daily so the rest of the time she is in her own garden having fun ,only safer right now while she is being trained not to run out on to the road , as all puppies must be taught right?? We trained her mother exactly the same way and were extremely successful , she is an excellent temprement and very obedient and loving dog . I adore my animals , would HATE to have to hand over her care to another , that is why i posted here , to get  some advice on how to solve this problem before it does get out of my control. Not to be reprimanded about how to treat my POOR dogs  .