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Sudden acute attacks of intense pain
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Sudden acute attacks of intense pain

Hi,
Just wondering if I need a second opinion, my dog has had intense sudden attacks of pain for the past 2 days, it was weekend so I waited until monday morning to take to the vet, thinking he hurt himself maybe slipped down stairs and maybe pulled muscle or something whilst I was out.
The pain comes on suddenly, he is not wimpering and appeared normal until 2 days ago, he ate normally, and his stools were almost normal but maybe a little runny, thinking it may have been runny due to beef liver treats I gave him 2 days running. (about a handful over two days), he is a bishon frize, male 13year old desexed, the pain comes on whilst he is sleeping, laying or even just walking around the house, it lasts 15-20 seconds and just screams in agony.
He has no vomiting, he is a little overweight, eats mainly biscuits and lamb necks ( i Suppose they are a bit fatty, but do cut of the fat) my son gives him treats like ham or cheese,.
He pants and screams severly whilst having an attack, and so far is having about 3-4 a day. He also hunches over and tries to jump up on me.
He has no difficulty jumping up on furniture or jumping down, or being picked up.
The vet did blood work and found almost normal blood, she gave me some pain killers and anti inflammatory and told me to come back in 5 days if not better to do some xrays, although she said its hard not to know where to xray, well understandable I suppose.
I am worried if it is something that could kill him, should I get a second opinion from another vet, this is the first time I have been to this vet as I just moved into this area.
Please help.
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I am just wondering if he has passed the stone ? if it is th.... will be interesting as my ex had a stone for 16 weeks and on the morning of the operation he passed it figure that.

Please let me know how you went.    Seeana
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Hi Penny....I've been thinking about this one all day.......I do have some ideas, but I'll have to get back with you....In the meantime, Maybe someone else will chime in, too....

Just wanted to let you know that your not being ignored!!!!  I'll be back....Karla
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He was much better today,last night at 2.30am he had an episode, but today  he only squeeled for about a second twice today, I thought thank god the painkillers and anti inflammatory 's must be working, I gave him his dinner around 7, just a little boiled chicken and about 10 mini biscuits the size of peas, and he ate all, he was ok for about an hour, and he had his first long attack lasted about 20seconds, frantic yelping and squeeling, and as suddenly as it came it stopped.
He lies around, but continually changes position, never used to do that, he was always a sleepy head and would lie still for hours on end even upside down lol, now he lies mostly on tummy and will get up and swing around and lie on tummy again.
Dont know if its tummy or what, not vomiting, normal stools, has appetite, but clearly sad and unhappy almost miserable, sticks to me like glue, was not going to feed him just to see if he was going to have a attack, but I didnt, felt sorry for him, he kept looking at the other dogs food and going over to it, so I guess he was hungry so I fed him a little.
I thought maybe pancreatitis, but his symptoms dont correlate with the normal symptoms of pancreatitis, no vomiting, no fever, no diahhorea. just feel helpless, dont know if I can take 2 more days of this, should I go elsewhere.
Penny

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Hi Penny......No, I don't think you need a second opinion, yet. I thought maybe Pancreatitis, too, but it would have shown up on his bloodwork.....Do you know  what was NOT Normal on his bloodwork? That may be your clue....

*I would have fed him last night, too.  ;)  Does this seem to correlate with after eating?

I'm not familiar with lamb necks......I assume they have bones in them.....I'm wondering if there might be a bone lodged somewhere creating the off and on pain? If it were in his stomach, he would be vomiting....If it's stuck in the intestines, I would think the inflammation would cause diarreah (diarrhea).....

Another thought: When was he groomed last? I have seen, what your describing, when a dog needs his Anal Glands expressed.....Part of the grooming process is to express the anal sacs...However, alot of Toy breeds need it done more often....You said his stool was loose in your original post......That's why I thought of this.....If the stool is not hard, the anal glands cannot empty on their own.....This alone can create the pain your describing.....I know this sounds too simple, but again, I've seen it....It also can make them appear very ill!

Another thought: I have also seen these symptoms in a dog with a severe allergy to flea bites...Literally, jump up (Often) like they have been poked with a pin!  It doesn't matter if you see the flea or not.....The reaction has already taken place and can last many days......Look around on his rear end....If this is the case; there will be tiny little red pricks....I mean tiny....Little bitty, red dots (You have to look close)......If the dog is allergic, one bite can trigger the reaction.....Again, it can last days and make them miserable......I promise, this alone can be a nighmtare for the dog and the human that it sleeps with!  ;)  

Ok, Give all this some thought and let me know what you think.......You still have 2 days before you go back to the Vet...I'm hoping you'll be prepared with some other ideas to discuss with your Vet before then.......Karla
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Hi it could be a kidney stone my English Mastiff had one and boy they cause agony as it moves.I doubt it is anal glands as he would be rubbing his bottom on the ground.
The only way to find out  what it is ...is to xray it seems it is in the tummy area. or has your Vet thought of doing an ultrasound??.In the meantimeyou could try changing his diet just cooked chicken meat with a little kibble

seeana.
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Thank you for your responses, OK, firstly his bloods were normal, nothing elevated, vet didnt think pancreatitis because lack of symptoms, no fleas, regularly has flea treatment, and the pain he is experiencing is agony, not just a jump or yelp, today he had like 3 attacks, noticed he doesnt like lying on his sides, he always used to lie on his sides either left or right or upside down, now only lies on his tummy, have poked and prodded him all over with gently to fairly hard pressure, just to see if I get resonse, no response, definitely no broken bones or ribs as he wouldve yelped, checked all his paws, tail, ribs, etc, vet said she will xray or ultrasound, just didnt know where to do it because we dont know where pain is.
His pain  would be  as painful as kidney stones, as my husband had them and he was in agony when they moved  and a few times during the day, so I guess never thought of that one, maybe possibility.
But the poor thing is so miserable, yet he jumps up on the lounge, and gets up and down the stairs without pain,damn, sticks to me like glue lol,
cant cook, sits in front of the oven, cant stay at the sink sits in front of the sink, lol, probably frightened and thinks I can fix him.
I have changed his diet and gave him chicken last night, then he had an episode an hour later, thought ok must be something to do with food, then he had another attack in the morning this morning on empty stomach, and he ate around 6 at night and had another attack around 10, so no I cant say now its assoc with food.
The lamb necks I stopped, although bones are really hard to chew, dont think any lodged, and his stools were ok when vet checked them, and they are ok today. Just given him cooked chicken an some dried food for now.
So I will be going to vet in morning its been 4 days and he is not better, hopefully they can do some more investigating, and we will know whats wrong I hope, cant go on like this seeing him in pain, its so weird, so sudden, he dosnt cry or wimper other times, just when the pain comes on he yelps and screams and then its over and then he needs to calm down and then he sleeps.
Thanks for all your help, hopefully will find out in the morning, will keep you posted.
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Yea!!!  Seeana may have solved this mystery!  I sure hope so....

The general rule of thumb with stones is: NO infection- NO stones. Did your Vet do a urinalysis? Be aware that there are different types of Kidney/Bladder Stones.... Some types DO NOT show up on an xray.......

I will add that Bichons are VERY prone to stones.....Extremely common!  And yes, VERY Painful!

If I were you, I'd collect a sample of urine and take it with you (So they Vet will not have to try to collect one). ...On my Male dogs; I tie a small sandwich baggie around their waist (And over their Peni*) and send them out to potty....When I see that they have peed, I run out and take it off......Then, I cut a hole in the corner of the bag and pour it in a clean jar......Your sample is good for 24hrs. if kept chilled.......

Good luck and please keep us updated.......I've got my fingers crossed..  ;)     Karla
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Thanks for reponse Karla, went to vet today, they told me to bring him in tomorrow morning after a  day of fasting to xray him, so that is where we are at now.
Strange he has not had one attack today, ate a little for lunch since he has to fast for xray, not one wimper, not one yelp, so far, keeping fingers crossed he dosn't have one tonight, they will xray tummy area will know tomorrow if anything shows up.
Thanks

Penny,
PS, looked up symptoms for stones, just dosnt have symptoms of peeing everywhere, (he does that anyway, supposedly house trained, will get to the back door and not bother going outside lol, we have a doggy door which  they go through and he would rather do it inside, bloody male, my girl is good she goes out, wind rain shine, or hail. lol, he does not like getting his paws wet lol.
dont you just love them with all their flaws.

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Hi  Penn... just a thought my Mastiff  Butch" could not wee at all and he had to have an op as it was a big stone with barbs and it was lodged a quarter of the way down in his penis the vet had to slice it open to get it .Butch weighed 95 kilo's and in a dog his size it seemed   to magnify his predicament he was such a stoic boy and when he came home which was early !as he just laid down and refused to move he wanted to come home.
So somehow home he came..... into the spare bedroom and put to bed. I had to sleep next to him at night or he would not settle, it took about a week for him to be pain free. In very large dogs stones can be a very big problem.Nowhere near  the worry with small dogs no idea why.
Lets hope your little dog has passed the stone already.

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My first thought was KIDNEY-STONE also.

None of my animals has had a kidney-stone, but I've had my fair share, and his symptoms sound a lot like mine!

I just looked it up, and for some odd reason, CYSTINE kidney-stones are fairly common in K9's, so you may want to mention that to your vet as a possibility.

The bad thing about cystine stones, is that they don't show up on x-ray. I know this for a fact, because I have cystine stones myself, and they don't x-ray me because it's no use. CT or ultrasound is the only way to see them, so that may be another thing to mention to your vet (he/she may not be familiar with that fact, as they are pretty unusual, although the most common type of stone in K9's).

Good luck to you!
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I am just wondering if he has passed the stone ? if it is th.... will be interesting as my ex had a stone for 16 weeks and on the morning of the operation he passed it figure that.

Please let me know how you went.    Seeana
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Dont know why my last post didnt come through, anyhow, to recap, went to the specialist monday morning after going to another vet anyhow over the weekend because he was getting very lethargic and not eating, other vet told me to wait until ultrasound on monday.
So saw the ultrasound vet at the hospital, and he checked out my dog and told me that he had a slipped disc in his neck, thats why he has painful muscle spasm  as the disc is pushing the spinal cord and he is experienceing pain, told me I need a mileogram ( ithink thats how its spelled), which will cost $2500 to ensure thats the problem.
And then if its bad surgery which will cost up to $8000.
So of course I will need another opinion, in the meanwhile, he told me to rest the dog, no walking, no jumping, no climbing stairs, basically have it in a cage or a very small room for about 6 weeks to rest, so scar tissue will form and he may not need operation, otherwise problem may get worse and he will need operating.
So I will wait and see how he goes for a month, I am carrying him to potty, down the stairs and up again, making him sit next to me and not move or leave the room, close doors so he cant get out, will buy a baby crib or such for him on weekend, didnt like those cages, they have wires horizontally and I know he will sit on his hind legs and hold on with his paws to try and get out which will put more strain on his spine.
Doctor said could be his age or trauma, so wondering if he slipped and fell down the stairs when I wasnt home, anyhow, I checked the internet for symptoms and he came in around 2/5, he did hunch up when pain struck and he held his paw up when pain came, but he could use back legs(not lame), he wants to jump up on lounge, his behaviour is not anxious unless he has attack,he is eating normal again, and his bowels are in control, so I guess maybe he is not as far gone as the vet thinks, so vet gives him 30% recovery, so lets wait and see, will ring my vet tomorrow to see if I can get some stronger painkillers apparantly the ones he is on is like panadol or something and something to relax the muscles,.
So thats where I am at right now, I am optimistic he will get better and wont require surgery, but then again I am not a vet.
Penny
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IVDD (Intravertabral disc disease) is basically a bulging disc. Narrowing of the space between vertabre is usually seen in these cases.

A myelogram is one of the best ways to diagnose but honestly not worth doing unless you are considering surgery. A myelogram is a test where radioactive dye is injected into spinal column to see where discs or vertabrae are compressing the spinal column.

Be careful with the internet since it loves to give out scary and often wrong info that only makes us freak out more!!

Oral steriods (prednisone or similiar) are often the preferred method of treatment of back issues for most vets. Steriods only help if there is inflammation.  

Back issues be they sore muscle, disc bulges, spondylosis etc should be treated with decreased/gaurded activity and can be painful or reinjured easily for 6-8 weeks post.

Once a dog has been diagnosed with any back issues their chances of reinjury are very high! So manageing their enviroment to help avoid future tweeks is good. Introduce stairs or stools to avoid high jumps onto beds or furniture. Finding low impact excercises to encourage like swimming or "thinking" games instead of fetch or frisbee will also help keep strain of the back.

Honestly simple walks may be something your pet is able to tolerate pain wise since it doesn't always tweek the back BUT you need to do what your pet can tolerate.

If your dog ever becomes paralyzed this is an EMERGENCY! Treatment must be started pretty immediatley for any chance of regaining use of legs. Even if you do surgery or start treatment immedietly it is never gaurenteed that full use will return.

Penny, I copied this off of another forum for you to read......Karla
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Well it has been a week since diagnosed with IVDD, the medication anti inflammatory and pain killers seem to be working, he has not had an attack or pain for a week now, just keeping him still locked up in the family room where most of time he lays on the floor, waiting for his play pen to arrive to put him into it., I lift him up and down the stairs to go toilet, and he is eating and being his normal self, wants to jump on furniture jump on my lag etc, but keeping him on the ground and quiet I think has helped also.
Lets hope this heals as much as possible  vet said to keep him in the play pen for around 6 weeks, so will do that.
Geez looking at him now you wouldt think anything ever happened to him.

Penny
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Thank You for keeping us up to date on what is happening.Sometimes I think I know a bit about some things.... but at the end of the day I do not know diddly squat.
And this is why it is so important to get a professional diagnosis.

The sad thing is that so many cannot afford to go to a vet and it is hit and miss.This is a tragedy  as those pets do not get the the care that they need,which in turn causes so much heartache and pain for all involved.

I do not know why something cannot be done about this ....the world moves forward at a lightening rate in some things... but in others it goes backwards! life is cheap and it does not make sense.

Just think if an alien landed here and sent a report back about the human race and how they treated other forms of life...... just imagine what they would say! doesn't bear thinking about does it.
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Hi Penny.....Thanks for the update...And a GOOD update at that!!!  

The picture of your two & friend, on your profile page, is "Wonderful"!  Reminds me of my house.......

When you have time:  There is another thread from a few days ago that I posted on....
It's still on the first page under the title "Is Anyone familiar with Rimadyl?". Please read my LAST reply to her question....It pertains to IVDD and what I've done.....Yes, I have a Bichon/Poodle Mix (Really not sure what he is, he's a Rescue) that has it, too.....

Please keep us updated and thanks for returning....I've been wondering about your guy(What's his name by the way?)  .........Karla
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Hi Karla & Seeana
Well got the playpen lol, cage thingy, today and put him in, well he doesnt like it at all, anyhow settled down and will probably get used to it, keeps looking at me saying what did I do what did I do lol.
So far pain free, still giving him his anti-inflammatory, and so far all is well.
Thanks for your support, and yes I did read your post Karla, will take heed if needed.
btw, his name is Nightmare, lol, cause he was a little nightmare as a pup, would only sleep in between our pillows on the bed till he got used to his bed lol.
But my boy is so much better, and I hope he gets stronger.
Thanks

Penny
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Oh my, I started laughing outloud....I Love his Name!!!   It's perfect!!!   Karla
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Oh well, my doggie is doing fine, he has had no attacks giving him med every two days now, and he wants to play and run around but not letting him so I guess he should be alright, unfortunately I took my other dog (Minnie) to the vet because her tummy was really tight and hard, thought she was putting on weight but this was not soft belly it was hard, did blood test and results were raised off the charts liver enzymes, she had a good feel and felt a lump deep inside, did xrays, showed a mass probably in the spleen, she said highly likely to be spleen cancer and by the raised enzyme levels over 1200 in the liver probably has spread.
Well I am truly devastated, going tomorrow for an ultrasound to see the extent of spread and if it is malignant or benign, and reading information on the net looks like its too late,She hasnt lost any apetite, eating like normal, playing like normal, chasing balls around, going for little walks as she is gets a little tired, the only symptom she has has a really tight belly and obviously I too can feel a a slight hump on her side, and the fact that she pants a lot now, she is not in pain and she is not wincing at all.
So after all the happiness we felt with nightmare, now our little girl is looking to have a death sentence. :(
I just hope the vet is wrong, but I will probably find out tomorrow from the specialist after the ultrasound.
Any similar cases that you know of to bring me a little hope would be appreciated.
I just cant stop crying, I know its the cirle of life, but she is too cute to die.

Penny
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Oh b.hell  this is not fair, .But dont give up hope yet until you get the results.
my English Mastiff had something very simler he did not pull through.You do not say how old she is????? as  Butch was nearly 11yrs.... very old for a giant breed.
Every case is different though so stay away from the net as most outcomes on there are grim.
             They might have to do a biopsy because even if it is growing it still can be benign then they can operate.Be brave for Minnie's sake hon,Oh why do such intelligent and wonderful animals live such a brief life... I have always found that so hard to come to terms with.Thinking of you.

Pkease keep in touch and let us know the outcome.
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Hello Penny, I'm sick about your post.....(It made me cry, too)...Yes, I did the usual google search as I know you have, too. I have not had to experience anything like this, yet....So, I don't know what to tell you other than I'm devastated for you, also.
However, hang in there till the rest of the results are in.....Many things can cause Liver Enzymes to skyrocket;  doesn't have to be the Spleen problem at all....

In the meantime; Because of the Liver, here's what I'd do (Or not do):
If it's time for her immunizations, DON'T get them!
If it's time for her Flea Preventative, DON'T give it!
If it's time for her Heartworm meds., skip it, too!
If the food she eats has any dyes, chemicals or preservatives, get rid of it!
Put her on Purified Bottled Water....Do NOT give tap water...
ALL of these things are filtered by the Liver...No need to strain it with the items listed above...At least, not for now...

I will be thinking about you and her tomorrow....You both will be in my prayers, tonight.....
Please give us an update as often as you can...I'll be waiting on it.....Karla

P.S.  I'm tickled that Nightmare is doing good!      Take care..(If possible)  :(
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Well had the ultrasound done, and the news was grim, its not the spleen, but 2 or more massive tumors on the liver, the radiographer is 99% sure its cancer, we did a "aspiration" I think its called a needle biopsy and sent it off for evaluation, will know mon or tue, if it is cancer it is too big to operate, just chemo to reduce/slow cancer, but hard to say how long she will live, maybe lucky 6 months, so my baby girl is really sick and I am so sad....., glad I have her for a little longer, sad she wont be around us much longer, she is 10 she is not sick, specialist says with her blood readings she is using her liver well and is mimicing a normal liver, but I guess with several mases it means its malignant.
oh I cant stop this crying, she is such a good little girl, so obedient and  so smart, damn it.
anyhow. will keep you posted, thanks for your positive thoughts,
Take care
Penny
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Hi Karla & Seeana
Well, recieved phone call today from the specialist vet for the results of the needle biopsy and they found no cancer cells, the specialist said this was positive although not 100% conclusive, although there were many cells on the biopsy, maybe in that particular area just happened to be cancer free, so she could give me no true indication, she suggesteed a liver biopsy to be sure , this would involve cutting her a little to do the biopsy, ( no other way as it is invasive).
But I thought do I really want to put her through that discomfort and pain, and I thought if she could talk, she would probably say, damn well mama, I want to know too, just do it. So I have decided to go ahead with it, I will make an appointment this week and should know by the end of the week.
The specialist said its either hepatic neoplasia (cancerous) or nodular hyperplasic (non malignant tumor), if it is the latter they can cut some bulk out so she can be more comfortable as she pants a lot, if it is cancer, well the rest we all know., chemo for a little while maybe or natural medicines for a little while until the inevitable.
So there is still a little glimmer of hope for my baby, that garden bed hasnt been dug up yet.
Penny
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Hi Penny.....Throw the Damn shovel away!!!!  This sounds more like a whole "Ray" instead of a glimmer!  I'm excited and hopeful as I know you sure are, too.

The good news about the Liver is that it is the only organ that can replenish itself and regrow new cells...Both masses should be able to be removed and still not damage the functionability of the Liver. Also, there are many Liver supplements that work beautifully to get that baby (The Liver) up and running again...Your Vet will sell one of them and a Holistic Vet will have many......

If it does turn out that she needs Chemo., again think about a Holistic Vet (Along with your regular Vet), as he/she can offer natural herbs & supplements that make the side effects of Chemo. much easier to tolerate....I know you have alot on your plate right now, but this is the time to at least be looking around for one in your area.....

Watch out for any toxins in her food, water, or anything else...Anything that goes in is having to be filtered by her Liver....Pay close attention as some things we take for granted are full of toxic substances....Please, Read her food label...If there's anything that you can't pronounce, it's toxic!    That's my approach, anyway.  :)

I have NOT forgotten about either of you....I have been out of pocket & never got to respond to your last post.....I did read it though and have thought about it ever since...
I will be out of town part of tomorrow & all of Thursday. I hope the appointment goes well and is not too tramatic for Minnie or her mama....

I will keep checking for updates....Until then, I'm still praying for her and hoping for a successful outcome....I also want to commend you for your care for her.....I wish everyone would or could!!!  I suppose it's not that simple, though.

Keep me updated and I'll check in when I can....Good luck...I'll be thinking about you both.....Even if I'm not home..........Karla






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My thoughts are with you both.When something happens like this its no different than if she was your child the worry and hurt is the same.
The only difference is these wonderful little souls live such a short time which is so unfair as they have the mentality and the presence to go on for so much longer! nature is so  cruel sometimes.
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Thank you for all your positive thoughts, just got a call from the specialist whilst minnie was in theatre, she has 2 massive tumours that they can remove and a couple of little ones that they may not be able to remove as they are imbedded in an area that they cant do anything about ie  she would have no liver if they cut them out, so the specialist said that maybe with chemo or other drugs they can be treatable, however since these tumours ar large, she may need blood transfusion, at the moment on pins and needles waiting for the surgery to be over and a phone call to say she is ok.
thanks again and will keep you posted.

Penny

PS love this little girl, and hope she will be with us a little longer.
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Oh my darling my thoughts are with you at this time.Stay positive and strong ok.
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I'm sending well wishes from here, too..... Hang in there Minnie; you can get through this...
Penny, I know you love her......Let us know when you hear anything......I'm heading to bed, but I'll check first thing in the morning......I hope the call comes soon for you....I'm also praying for Good News......Bye....Karla
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Dear Karla & Seeana
All is well, minnie handled the surgery well, surgeon took out the huge tumours she had, couldnt do anything about the smaller ones, the specialist said that probably they are slow growing and it could take a while until they grow, meanwhile the pathology report will be in maybe tomorrow, then the oncologist can treat her with the appropriate drugs, or chemo or somthing, anyhow will know better what the tumours are however the specialist said they looked really ugly so be prepared that they are more than likely malignant, however on the brighter side, she said I have definitely improved minnies life span from months to maybe a year or so depending on how the rest of the cancer behaves and responds to the drugs, even so, apparantly she now has a waist , poor little  thing, instead of looking like a suckling pig. lol.
She is sitting up socializing with other doggies, and doing wees and poos, specialist said she will even try and feed her a little chicken to see if she is up to it., will bring her home tomorrow night, around this time (24hours), and even though she still has cancer, she will at least be so much more comfortable.
I am glad I did it and I am sure she is glad too.
Penny,
PS
I dont know what I would have done if I couldnt afford the surgery, it cost $4000,  but she is worth it, I feel sorry for the people who cannot afford to do this and have lost their beautiful companions early, maybe I will take out pet insurance just in case.
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Hi Penny...Keep the good news coming....I sure like happy stories....There aren't very many on this forum....
Time is ticking and she should be home in about 13 hrs. I'm sooooo glad and I know she will be glad to be home.....I bet Nightmare has been lonesome without her, too.

I don't know much about Canine Cancer, but there is a world of info. out there. You probably already know that.... :)

I do know that Cancer feeds off of Carbohydrates. Don't know if it's the actual Carbs. or if it's the sugar that carbs. turn into in the system....That said, If she's not on a Grain Free diet, this is probably a good thing to go with....Again, I know you've already been looking around for info. and have probably already run across this!

There are also a number of supplements that you will encounter on your search....If nothing else, I'd ask her Doctor for a Liver supplement.....He will sell one ....It's a tiny pill given once a day for a dog her size...They DO work and I personally believe that all Senior dogs should be on it....

Alright. Well, enjoy her homecoming & please keep us updated.....I hope she bounces back from the surgery quickly......Take care......Karla

P.S. One of mine had an emergency surgery on Christmas Eve. 2 years ago this Dec. It was also in the thousands of dollars....I was so grateful that I had the money to save him! I wondered about those that don't and what a tough decision that would have to be.  :(    I too, have wondered about Pet Insurance....My biggest question would be: After the dog is already sick, will they allow you to purchase the insurance? If you find out, let me know please.....Bye for now.......
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Hi Karla & Seeana
Well Minnie is home and very sore, poor lttle thing,I knew she would be but she has pain killers and before they handed her over they gave her something so hopefully she will be ok.
She ate a tiny bit and did wees, boy with that mas gone she looks quite a sexy lady. lol.
The results wont be in for a few days keeping my fingers crossed that it was benign, although the specialist says prob not due to its behaviour, at least she is going to be more comfortable.
She is mainly eating protein, I rarely feed them carbs, very little, they dont really like rice or pasta or potates too much, always mainly protein, and she wont eat dog biscuits but will ask vet about diet there is a lot of info out there, not quite sure what is right, so will research, will ask about the liver supplement also.
Nightmare hasnt been quite himself,  wandering around, looking, sitting, walking, standing lol, when she came home and he saw her (he is half blind and deaf), he walked over and gave her a big nosey sniff everywhere, lol, kept wanting to sit with her, but she was mostly on my lap for fear of her hurting herself by bumping into things.
I know reading these forums makes you want to cry, and the vet told me about another doggie today that had the same as minnie, although his was much worse and the cancer had spread right through his spleen and liver, he was in a real mess, poor soul, his poor owners must be devastated, and you see some horror stories they had a 2 year old border collie that weighed as much as my minnie, 6kg, the poor thing was so abused, thankfully the RSPCA had taken it there to get better and it was, and they are looking to rehome it., would love it but no yard and my doggies are a bit old to have a border collie running around them lol.
I will keep you posted when I hear about the results, and she will have stitches off in 10 days, thanks for all your help.
PS The specialist vet said to me (absolutely if it was my dog I wouldve done what you did), so I guess I feel good about what I did, she also said, after the age of 8 I will get my dogs ultrasound every year so I can catch the nasties before they take hold.
As for pet insurane, manchesterunity.com.au does pet insurance here in Australia, the older the pet the less they insure, I dont know where u are but if your in  Australia check out the web site, its not that expensive the premium package covers cancer but only for dogs under 10 I think.

Penny

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Well got the lab results back and it is not good, its hepatocellular carcinoma, primary cancer of the liver.
Well I am going to the oncologist next tuesday, minie will also take out her stitches that day, and we will have a chat with him to see if there is anything we can do to slow down these tumours.
At the moment she is doing exceptionally well, (touch wood) lol, eating and drinking as normal, that big mass of tumour around her belly has gone and she looks so tiny now, I cant remember her ever looking so little., so maybe thats a good sign that the tumour is slow growing .
So keep fingers crossed, will let you know what the oncologist said.

Penny

Meanwhile I will be looking for a holistic vet in our area and also ask the vet oncologist what to recommend.
I sort of feel better knowing its natural, by what I have read on the internet chemo does not work for this type of cancer. The specialist will know and advise me I am sure.
Take care.
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Its been a while since I updated, so I'll have a go
Nightmare is fine and putting on weight, I will have to take him to the vet but right now  am a mess with Minnie.
Took her to the oncologist for another ultrasound and unfortunately, the cancers have not grown, however now there are multiple new ones developed and unfortunately we cannot even do chemotherapy because it willl be futile.
So Minnie is now on palliative care, her liver is shunting, so she is on antibiotics and laxatives every day, and cortisone every second day for pain, however she dosnt seem to be in pain.
She has her days of being off food, and unfortunately she is losing weight due to the laxatives that she needs to take so that toxins don't build up in her bowels and cause secondary infections.
Most days, she will play with her ball around the house, but the oncologist did say she has about 1-3 months, (that was a month ago,), so since surgery, she has managed to stay alive for 4 months, I don't think she will make it to her 12th birthday in march, but lets hope so.
I cry every night, and I cry because I know that I will have to make the final decision when to put her to sleep and I dont know if I can.
Anyhow until then, lets hope she is pain free.

Penny

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Hi Penny,  I'm sorry for what your going through!!  I've lived through something similiar (Twice so far) and didn't think I would survive, either.....

I remember the crying; knowing the end is coming and I couldn't bare to let him go.....Actually, I still cry; as in now!  

Just try to enjoy every day with her......Try not to cry in front of her because she will pick up on your sadness....You are a wonderful mother to these guys & you have gone above & beyond to provide the medical treatment that they both have needed.....Somehow, I think they both realize that!

This is all part of loving a creature and yes, it *****!  But, when the time comes, you WILL be able to do what's best for her.....Trust me....You will even surprise yourself in the process.  ;)  Oh, it won't be easy, but you will adjust the thinking from your point of view over to Minnie's point of view......She will let you know....

Until then, I'm thinking about you all....Check back in when you can...I'm glad to hear from you.....I'll be praying for you both!

Happy 12th Birthday, Minnie..........Sincerely, Karla

I'm glad Nightmare is doing good...That helps you alittle....

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Dear Karla,

Thanks for all your well wishes, unfortunately Minnie passed away on Monday 10/1, she was ill on Saturday and couldnt walk and was very wobbly, we took her to the specialist and they kept her overnight, , her specialist said that she was changing her antibiotics and she had an infection in the gastro intestinal and that she was bleeding from the tumour, she was giving her enemas every 2 hours to clean out her bowels and try to curb the infection, she said some dogs respond well, some dont, it was the only thing she could do if I wanted her to do it, so I said I did and we would wait 24 hours to see if any progress, as with liver cancer and her liver shunting there was nothing else to do.
Sunday I went and saw her with my daughter and she didnt respond at all, she didnt recognise us, so I knew in my heart she would not pull through.
Monday came and I rang the vet and she told me the tumour was bleeding and she vomited blood and she told me that it was time, there was nothing else, prolonging it now would only cause her to suffer, there were things she could try, however she would be miserable and prolong her misery, so I told the vet I didnt want to do that because I didnt want her to suffer, up till now she really was not in pain, it was all taken care of with the drugs, she would go for walks and play, only the feeding was becoming a problem hand feeding spoon feeding, she was starting to lose weight.
So Monday night came and the family went to the hospital, and as soon as she saw us, she started to get up and wanted to come home,.
All she wanted was cuddles from me, and and tobe held by me and the love of her family.
So everyone left apart from me and my daughter, and I held her so close to me, she was cryng and I was too, but I calmed her down, and she started to fall asleep in my arms, then the vet gave her the final sleep through the IV tube so she didnt have to have any needles, and she peacefully fell asleep in my arms.
I really miss my baby, I took her home and showed her to my other dog, he sniffed her and let out a bark as we buried her in the front garden under the maple tree.
He hasnt slept in her bed since then. He would always sleep in her bed.
I loved her so, but I know she is in a better place, and I have her pictures everywhere so I can remind myself of how she was.
IT is sad, I have lost other pets, I cannot remember the grief as it was a long time ago but I know I cried back then over 20 years ago.
Nightmare is missing her, although he loves the double attention now lol, he is old, 14 going on 15 healthy at the moment, going to vet monday for checkup.
But the grief we have is nothing compared to the joy they bring us for a lifetime of love and devotion, and I hope we meet again my sweet brave girl.
Thanks for listening.

Penny
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Thats my minnie is the green jumper.

Penny
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Oh Penny....I'm so sad for you.....I know the grief! I lost one of mine (pictured) over 2 yrs.ago, but I find myself still crying on occasion...He was a short lived blessing...

Minnie in her green jumper is adorable! I have one that looks alot like her....My Ginger just turned 10.

Please know that you are a great mom to this creatures. How blessed they have been.....Nightmare is going to be very lonely without her....I'm sure he does enjoy the extra attention, though.   ;)

I have a Nightmare Dog. I wish I would have been clever enough to name him that...Actually, he was already named when I got him. But had he not, that would have been perfect...His name is Oliver, but we refer to him as "The Spawn of Satan".  I kid you not!

Keep me updated on yourself and Nightmare (And his Vet visit)....Blessings to you both...I'm truly sorry for your loss.......Sincerely, Karla

~~~Run Free Little Minnie~~~~You Were Much Loved~~~~One of The Lucky Ones~~~
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Hi Karla,
Thanks for your well wishes, took nightmare to the vet and he has a thyroid underactive  problem, the vet gave him Oroxine twice daily and that should fix him up. The bloods showed it and the rest of the blood work was fine.
Checked all his lumps and bumps and just fat tissue, so luckily he is ok.
He is so lonely, so my husband decided to get another puppy so we went to a breeder and brought home a little bichon male and called him Napoleon, Leo for short.
He is beautiful and jumps all over Nightmare, Nightmare just growls its only been a few days now but he sleeps with him at night in the laundry and wake up I find them on the bed together, so he has company and dosnt look as miserable. I still cry myself to sleep, I just miss that little face of hers so much. The little puppy keeps me busy during the day so I dont cry as much, I carry  my minnies photo around with me, every time I look in my bag she is in the little pocket which I always look into.. I think it  will be a long long time before tears dont come to my eyes every time I think of her, she was an adorable little girl.
Anyhow, hopefully with the tablets nightmare will be fine and will enjoy his remaining years I hope.
Funny I dreamt about her the other night, she was surrounded by hundreds of little puppy faces and was so happy and smiling , I heard her little bell and her little panting, I hope she truly is running free and playing.


Thanks

Penny
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I am really worried about my dog she keeps on constantly moving around on and off ..  Also she makes like a whimpering moaning noise on and off also.. I don't know what's wrong with her.. Shea also attached to a toy and every time she has it in her mouth she does the noise even more.. I live in the Bronx new York .. Can someone tell me how much is the vet??? I need help
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Hi I have a 7 year old mastiff cross wolfhound named xena. She went for a very shirt walk with my son and when she came back seemed to be limping and didn't want to come up the stairs she normally bounds up. I check her paws and found a very small scrape and thought she must have stood in something sharp. Since then she is displaying signs of pain with whining and occasional yelps. She's curled up in her bed trying to sleep which she does for a while and then the pain wakes her again. I have searched her all over for ticks and some sign of where the pain is coming from but can't find either. Besides the pain everything else is fine. Ant ideas would be appreiciated. Thanks
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I have a poodle mix she's been having the same symptoms she's usually very playful but when these attacks started she won't eat ANYTHING! Has no energy. She can be just laying down walking or anything and all of a sudden screams out in pure agony I seem to think she may b constipated or some kind of stomach problems please help!
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my moms dog came inside this morning from using the bathroom all she did was walk inside and started screaming in agony I will not let us touch her left arm when we do touch it she screams in agony and its just barely touching it is not even squeezing it or anything... I looked to see if there might have been something stuck in her paw I don't see anything I think its the actual arm or the joint itself... you would think its broken but she seems to walk on it and get around okay as far as walking on it she may be limps a little bit but if she's laying down and she turns on her side she whines but if you touch the arm she screams in agony!!!!!!!!
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I know some if these post are older, but thought I could add something helpful.  My dog showed most of these signs & symptoms, and it turned out he had a neck injury, apparently a disk in his spine was bulging out creating pressure on the spinal nerves.  This in turn would give him extremely painful acute episodes that involved very loud yelping, and him running in circles very clumsily almost panic like, he would seek me out when this happened, and I would hold him and calm him down.  These lasted about 20 - 30 seconds long and went on for a week, and 3 vet visits later, before we finally got a correct diagnosis. He also would hold his front paw up, hid in his crate, and shook a lot.  When he wasn't having these , he appeared fine, walking, eating, but slowly got worse with more pain, less eating, and could not stand to bear much weight on his legs.  I also noticed he would not turn his head much to the right.  It was only after I noticed this, everything started to make sense.  The 3rd vet visit they did xrays, and based on that and my observations about his neck behavior, they said there was spinal compression.  He was given pain meds and we have also started prednisone as well, AND are on strict crate rest.  That is imperative.  He is slowly getting better.  Please keep this kind of injury in mind when your dog appears normal most of the time, then starts screaming or yelping for no obvious reason.  The first 2 vet visits were inconclusive, because the dog never squealed or showed signs of pain on examination.  That is what is so frustrating.  Us owners need to diligent about observing them at home and take every bit of that info back to the vet.  This is a very common problem especially for small dogs that like to jump up and down off of things.  Good luck.
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I am just experiencing this with my pup; he's a 16 yr. old pekeapoo, male and just had his 3rd episode; don't think its related to any food cause I have never given him bones and he's been on special food I.D. Regular for a long time now; his 1st episode was about mid april; the second on may 6 and now tonite; each time he has been laying down resting and all of a sudden he'll cry in pain; the first and third time I calmed him down and stayed with him and it passed; the second time he collapsed and I rushed him to the hospital; they did tests and xrays, bloodwork and no results; he does already take meds for his pancreas, liver, and trachea as well as arthritis; can't tell from where he is hurting but within the last month has started to lose some control at times with his back legs to where I have to pick him up and set him back down to help him get going again; I know he's old and at that age don't want him hurting; maybe it is a stone but I would think that would've shown on the xrays; he has no problem pooping and always looks normal; only thing different is that he always wants to eat; its hard to tell from where he's hurting; if he should collapsed again I will take him in; I don't know if any of this will help you; sorry your pup is going through this......
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