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Sudden change, 10 YO Westie pooping inside
Our estimated 10 year old Westie has been with us for two years last April. He has all this time slept upstairs with us in the Master Bedroom, on his own bed on the floor. During this time he has waked me up during the dark hours because he needed to go outside to use the toilet. I'll guess this has happened 5 times in two years, close to never.
About a week ago my wife woke me about 3 AM to say she hear the dog go down the stairs. I immediately got up and found downstairs he had pooped twice, once on the kitchen hard tiles and once in the adjacent study on a light carpet. I put him outside, cleaned up, and the following nights I closed the door to the study and put news paper on the kitchen floor where he had used it before. I did this for a couple of night and he did not have any needs. A couple of days later after I had stopped putting down news paper he again went down stairs and pooped in the kitchen. For the next couple nights no problem. Then last night I was again woke by my wife and this time I got down stairs in time to catch him in the act... great opportunity to connect my displeasure with the act. But as he is deaf, angry words have no effect, worse I couldn't get him to go outside and if I tried to pick him up to put him outside he snapped at me and was very aggressive in self defense. We know he was in a wild state before the animal control in Hoboken NJ picked him up and I suppose he had to fight for his life a few times...and he's a terrier.
Following the return to the M Bedroom I closed the door so he couldn't get out. If he starts pooping in the Bedromm he is in big trouble, what next, put him in his crate to sleep?
He is past the point of obedience training, he was "house broke" long ago. He is a barker whenever he wants something, including in the past barking to be put outside to use the toilet. He has ongoing skin, Yeast, problems and yesterday I put him back on Hills Z/D prescription dog food, but this is not correlated to the the toilet problems as that started about 10 days ago.
Welcome any suggestions
About a week ago my wife woke me about 3 AM to say she hear the dog go down the stairs. I immediately got up and found downstairs he had pooped twice, once on the kitchen hard tiles and once in the adjacent study on a light carpet. I put him outside, cleaned up, and the following nights I closed the door to the study and put news paper on the kitchen floor where he had used it before. I did this for a couple of night and he did not have any needs. A couple of days later after I had stopped putting down news paper he again went down stairs and pooped in the kitchen. For the next couple nights no problem. Then last night I was again woke by my wife and this time I got down stairs in time to catch him in the act... great opportunity to connect my displeasure with the act. But as he is deaf, angry words have no effect, worse I couldn't get him to go outside and if I tried to pick him up to put him outside he snapped at me and was very aggressive in self defense. We know he was in a wild state before the animal control in Hoboken NJ picked him up and I suppose he had to fight for his life a few times...and he's a terrier.
Following the return to the M Bedroom I closed the door so he couldn't get out. If he starts pooping in the Bedromm he is in big trouble, what next, put him in his crate to sleep?
He is past the point of obedience training, he was "house broke" long ago. He is a barker whenever he wants something, including in the past barking to be put outside to use the toilet. He has ongoing skin, Yeast, problems and yesterday I put him back on Hills Z/D prescription dog food, but this is not correlated to the the toilet problems as that started about 10 days ago.
Welcome any suggestions
We know you miss Wilson, Jerry, and we do too.
Yes, this information certainly might help someone in the future. That is the good thing about these Forums is sharing information.
Now wish we could get posters to come back and update!!
Thanks, Jerry.
Yes, this information certainly might help someone in the future. That is the good thing about these Forums is sharing information.
Now wish we could get posters to come back and update!!
Thanks, Jerry.
I believe Wilson"s problem was was the tumor found in his intestine and resulted in the decision to euthanize on December 3, 2014. The tumor had ruptured.
I post for any aid this experience might provide to others experiencing a similar dog toilet problem. I try to console myself that had this been discovered via a vet exam we still would not have been able to save/extend Wilson's life. Wilson had in fact undergone xray of chest/heart/lungs about a month before his death, no "mass" was noticed at that time... but an xray of the stomach might have, who knew?
I still miss the little guy.
I post for any aid this experience might provide to others experiencing a similar dog toilet problem. I try to console myself that had this been discovered via a vet exam we still would not have been able to save/extend Wilson's life. Wilson had in fact undergone xray of chest/heart/lungs about a month before his death, no "mass" was noticed at that time... but an xray of the stomach might have, who knew?
I still miss the little guy.
Our little Westie seems to have had some stomach/intestine disorder. He has not had urgent need to go, and in fact we have been up a couple of hours this morning and he is yet to go outside. He had some more home cooking for breakfast and still not interested in going out. The sun is out now, and the temperature is in the lower 50s so it isn't the weather that's keeping him inside.
He even ate about 1/4 cup of dry kibble last night after before "bed time"... still no sign of needing to go to the toilet.
Hope that's the end of this episode. Still struggling with other problem this little guy has - but I may stop cooking for him when I run out of the chicken I purchased for that purpose. That should last the rest of this week.
He even ate about 1/4 cup of dry kibble last night after before "bed time"... still no sign of needing to go to the toilet.
Hope that's the end of this episode. Still struggling with other problem this little guy has - but I may stop cooking for him when I run out of the chicken I purchased for that purpose. That should last the rest of this week.
The battle goes on, but no poop in the house the last three nights, and this morning he got me up before 8 AM, should be up anyway, when he was milling round our bed. My wife woke me up, and I got up immediately to let him out - down stairs in slippers and not much more with the dog following. Yesterday morning a similar experience which started at 7 AM led to the dog going out and walking directly to a favorite are, too far for me to see details from the hours, but it appeared he did a "dump". But this morning, it is now 9:10 AM he is yet to go outside. Not real cold, about 40 degrees and sunny, So he still doesn't have a need for a morning "walk".
Yes, other symptoms exist:
1) loss of appetite (Kibble and Canned dog food)
2) all Kibble is grain free, limited ingredients and highly rated on "dog food adviser" and the protein is Fish. Other Kibble is Prescription with hydrolized chicken protein. Concern about Protein is possible sensitivity eve allergy to animal protein - not conclusive yet.
3) he will eat boiled chicken breast and that seems to have him doing better, but he will still not eat Kibble, canned food none now open, small dog even when eating well we had to refrigerate opened canned food as it too two or three days for him to eat the whole can, when his appetite was good/normal.
4) His bowel movement has been soft but no diarrhea - that continues.
We had him groomed Friday last, with a short cut all around (Westie) save some traditional parted long hair on his head and full "carrot" tail shape. The shot cut shows he is no longer overweight, this we suspected even with his overgrown full coat. The weight loss was needed, I'd guess he is about 18 pounds now, a large male size. So, no fear of starvation yet and I am pressuring him to go back on Kibble. We may continue some boiled chicken as a "treat". We're not yet going to cooking him home-cooked meals, we're older folks and have trouble just getting that done for ourselves : (
It does appear he is not allergic to chicken, but one is not sure what that means when used to describe what is in commercial dog food...clearly it is not limited to boiled skinless chicken breast meat as he is now eating here.
Yes, other symptoms exist:
1) loss of appetite (Kibble and Canned dog food)
2) all Kibble is grain free, limited ingredients and highly rated on "dog food adviser" and the protein is Fish. Other Kibble is Prescription with hydrolized chicken protein. Concern about Protein is possible sensitivity eve allergy to animal protein - not conclusive yet.
3) he will eat boiled chicken breast and that seems to have him doing better, but he will still not eat Kibble, canned food none now open, small dog even when eating well we had to refrigerate opened canned food as it too two or three days for him to eat the whole can, when his appetite was good/normal.
4) His bowel movement has been soft but no diarrhea - that continues.
We had him groomed Friday last, with a short cut all around (Westie) save some traditional parted long hair on his head and full "carrot" tail shape. The shot cut shows he is no longer overweight, this we suspected even with his overgrown full coat. The weight loss was needed, I'd guess he is about 18 pounds now, a large male size. So, no fear of starvation yet and I am pressuring him to go back on Kibble. We may continue some boiled chicken as a "treat". We're not yet going to cooking him home-cooked meals, we're older folks and have trouble just getting that done for ourselves : (
It does appear he is not allergic to chicken, but one is not sure what that means when used to describe what is in commercial dog food...clearly it is not limited to boiled skinless chicken breast meat as he is now eating here.
COMMUNITY LEADER
It's hard to understand what this new habit is all about.
I wonder if it could be related to sensitivity to the food...? Dunno.
My dog was pretty robust and strong with excellent health 99% of the time. But she did have some sensitivity in her digestive system, since surviving Parvo when she was young. So some foods used to upset her.
Then I started feeding her a kibble which was 100% all-natural ingredients, meat based (rabbit meat) and NO additives preservatives etc. I am in UK so that was from a UK company who were pretty new at the time, and had won awards for their holistic new approach to dog food.
My girl was so very well on this.
I also gave her home-cooked 'wet' food -and it didn't work out much more expensive than the canned. I would boil chicken/beef/venison/etc for her and add carrots, broccoli. green beans, peas etc.
Her digestive system was happy with this diet and her health was great.
I hope you figure something out, Jerry....
I wonder if it could be related to sensitivity to the food...? Dunno.
My dog was pretty robust and strong with excellent health 99% of the time. But she did have some sensitivity in her digestive system, since surviving Parvo when she was young. So some foods used to upset her.
Then I started feeding her a kibble which was 100% all-natural ingredients, meat based (rabbit meat) and NO additives preservatives etc. I am in UK so that was from a UK company who were pretty new at the time, and had won awards for their holistic new approach to dog food.
My girl was so very well on this.
I also gave her home-cooked 'wet' food -and it didn't work out much more expensive than the canned. I would boil chicken/beef/venison/etc for her and add carrots, broccoli. green beans, peas etc.
Her digestive system was happy with this diet and her health was great.
I hope you figure something out, Jerry....
Thanks for your help, we've tried to put into effect....but walking Wilson (dog) on a leash is a struggle. He is a free ranging dog on our property and has lost his "joy" of a walk on a leash. More poor training by me. : (
We have gotten him out for a walk a couple of times since your reply, and we have stopped feeding after 5 PM... and stopped feeding canned dog food as his "poop" has been unusually soft, not diarrhea.
Unfortunately he has rewarded our efforts by stopping eating.. Kibble. Kibble has always been the major component of his food. Well, at least he isn't pooping on the rug/floor.
I gave him some canned food this morning and he ate about 10% of what would be considered his daily food needs. I'll try to get him to eat more of this but stop by noon and go back to only Kibble. He continues to drink water regularly.
This latest episode, toilet problems, may be due to an upset digestive system, he had been with us for over two years before any messing of the floor happened.
Oh yes, I have restricted his diet too in an ongoing attempt to win the battle agains hair loss and itcy skin. The hair on his legs is growing back and he is not chewing on them. Hope springs....
We have gotten him out for a walk a couple of times since your reply, and we have stopped feeding after 5 PM... and stopped feeding canned dog food as his "poop" has been unusually soft, not diarrhea.
Unfortunately he has rewarded our efforts by stopping eating.. Kibble. Kibble has always been the major component of his food. Well, at least he isn't pooping on the rug/floor.
I gave him some canned food this morning and he ate about 10% of what would be considered his daily food needs. I'll try to get him to eat more of this but stop by noon and go back to only Kibble. He continues to drink water regularly.
This latest episode, toilet problems, may be due to an upset digestive system, he had been with us for over two years before any messing of the floor happened.
Oh yes, I have restricted his diet too in an ongoing attempt to win the battle agains hair loss and itcy skin. The hair on his legs is growing back and he is not chewing on them. Hope springs....
COMMUNITY LEADER
This is a nuisance for you and your wife. Constantly broken sleep isn't good for any of you. It's alright for dog. He can nap in the day!
And he seems well in himself? No other symptoms? You already mentioned that his poop is normal....
I don't know for sure. It's a bit of a mystery to me. Especially as he's been okay with your ordinary routine for years. Unless the change of food in the last 2 weeks has caused him more bowel frequency??
You could try this...
Feed him normally in the morning. Then his second meal about 4 hours before it starts to go dark. Let him rest an hour or two, then take him for a good walk. Not just a quick "potty break" walk but some good exercise, for about 1 hour. That should give you (and him) time to get some serious business over with before it goes dark! Then no more food before bed.
Just a thought. You might already do that, but it was an idea.
And he seems well in himself? No other symptoms? You already mentioned that his poop is normal....
I don't know for sure. It's a bit of a mystery to me. Especially as he's been okay with your ordinary routine for years. Unless the change of food in the last 2 weeks has caused him more bowel frequency??
You could try this...
Feed him normally in the morning. Then his second meal about 4 hours before it starts to go dark. Let him rest an hour or two, then take him for a good walk. Not just a quick "potty break" walk but some good exercise, for about 1 hour. That should give you (and him) time to get some serious business over with before it goes dark! Then no more food before bed.
Just a thought. You might already do that, but it was an idea.
Four days later, three no problem, but last night he hit the master bedroom run, so much for the theory a do will not mess his own nest/den. Cleaning that up at about 6 am and taking down the door block I was awaken again at about 7 am with a call from my wife the "dog just went down stairs". this time he hit the living room run (now two more rugs have been anointed(). After some trouble getting him outside, where he remains along with his food and water dish I got out the rug cleaning machine and stain remover spray and it appears I got the carpets clean.
I think it is time to leave him hungry after 6 pm, pick up any uneaten food, give him just water. I may move his sleeping arrangement to the laundry room with the door closed. Sad, this guy had no accidents in over tow years of ownership/adoption at about age 8 years old. No idea what went wrong. His poop is norm to soft, no diarrhea. Yesterday evening I gave him a 1/3 can of 4 Health Salmon dog food... he had been eating the kibble and has had that canned food before, albeit. none in the last couple of weeks.
I think it is time to leave him hungry after 6 pm, pick up any uneaten food, give him just water. I may move his sleeping arrangement to the laundry room with the door closed. Sad, this guy had no accidents in over tow years of ownership/adoption at about age 8 years old. No idea what went wrong. His poop is norm to soft, no diarrhea. Yesterday evening I gave him a 1/3 can of 4 Health Salmon dog food... he had been eating the kibble and has had that canned food before, albeit. none in the last couple of weeks.
Update continued. Still no poop on the floor. I laugh with my wife, no food, no poop. I am holding the dog to a strict diet mostly to test again if the no grain (mostly, the prescription Z/D may have some grain), and only fish and hydrolized chicken protein doesn't trigger a skin allergy. His skin seems to be improving.
To the poop on the floor subject, when were were gone today for about 5 hours the dog had the run of the house and it appears he slept most of the time, at last that is what he was doing when we arrived home. As the dog is deaf it is easy to get into the house without waking him if he is asleep.
Not sure where to go from here, but I think I'll continue to block (easy for us to step over) the door out of the bedroom. We don't like to close the door, another option we have not used.
To the poop on the floor subject, when were were gone today for about 5 hours the dog had the run of the house and it appears he slept most of the time, at last that is what he was doing when we arrived home. As the dog is deaf it is easy to get into the house without waking him if he is asleep.
Not sure where to go from here, but I think I'll continue to block (easy for us to step over) the door out of the bedroom. We don't like to close the door, another option we have not used.
I don't have any good advice, just wanted to say it is amazing how we have to try and second guess and outsmart our animals. Good Luck., it sounds like you have a good plan of action, hope it works..
Update: dog's path out of the master bedroom is blocked by a 12" high piece of cardboard box. The dog is a short legged Westie so the barrier is at least head high. There is no sign that he tried to get out while we were sleeping.
The theory here is a dog is less likely to mess "his nest" than elsewhere and we hope he views the whole of the large bedroom to be part of his nest. We hope to see him return to his past practice of barking if he needs to be outside. I'm not happy getting up at 3 AM to let him out, but better than that get up at 3 AM to clean up poop and let him hour.
He remains on the strict diet of salmon and Z/D prescription kibble, which means he is eating less. He has rejected the salmon canned food, but I will try to add that back in ... he drinks lots of water, and sometimes prefers his kibble with a splash of wate.
The theory here is a dog is less likely to mess "his nest" than elsewhere and we hope he views the whole of the large bedroom to be part of his nest. We hope to see him return to his past practice of barking if he needs to be outside. I'm not happy getting up at 3 AM to let him out, but better than that get up at 3 AM to clean up poop and let him hour.
He remains on the strict diet of salmon and Z/D prescription kibble, which means he is eating less. He has rejected the salmon canned food, but I will try to add that back in ... he drinks lots of water, and sometimes prefers his kibble with a splash of wate.
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