What could this possibly be?

[LindaTX]

Our 12-13 yr old Great Pyrenees, JJ has developed some strange symptoms.  We were out of town and had a caretaker checking on him and our 10 yr old Barney.  When we got home, he was exhibiting these symptoms:  Listless, excessive drinking of water, third-eyelid covering eyes so that he appears to be blind, not really able to eat solid food, just laps at a soupy mixture of wet and dry food mashed.  We can't imagine what must have happened to him....the caretaker had no clue what it could be.  No fever, anyone ever run into anything like this? We do live out in the country, no close neighbors so don't think he got into something poisonous. Possibly a snakebite..... but couldn't see any puncture marks anywhere.

[LindaTX]

Thanks again to everyone on here who has been so supportive and helpful.  I just wrote on my journal...All My Latest...and that actually made me feel a little better.  I am thankful that we did find out the cause of our dog's demise.  I know in my heart we did make the right decision.  He was right at 12 yrs old and just the best dog ever.....I'm so thankful he was part of our life for so long.

[Heiferly]

Linda,  I'm so sorry for your loss.  It's terrible losing a pet, but you did all the right things and he was so lucky to have a great owner like you.  I hope comfort comes to you soon, Heiferly.

[dominosarah]

My heart goes out to you Linda.  I know the pain of losing a pet but you did the right thing for JJ.  We love them enough to let them go.  In time the tears will turn to a smile when you remember the great memories you have~~sara

[29sillygirl]

Geez, Linda, I just found this thread and add my condolences to that of others.  You know you did the right and really the only thing for JJ, but it is hard to loss a pet at this  time of year.  

Hugs from Diego and me...much love, Ann

[TwoBitsMom]

Linda,
I am so sorry to hear about JJ. Please take some comfort in knowing that you always only wanted to do what was best for him, and you did.
JJ was a lucky dog to spend his life in the company of people who love him. Because of you, he had a good home and a good life. He knows how much you love him.
I know that Christmas will be difficult for you, but I hope that memories of JJ will bring a smile and warm your heart.
May your Christmas be peaceful, and your New Year Happier...
God Bless JJ's Beautiful Spirit and Soul....He is much loved.
Connie

[Ghilly]

Linda, I'm so sorry about JJ.  There are no adequate words at a time like this.   At least you have the small comfort of knowing that JJ is no longer suffering and that he lived a long life for such a large breed.  I know that he will be missed.  Somehow I think he'll still find a way to mentor Big Ben and Beau.

I would be interested in reading the printout.  I am not familiar with this disease and now I'm interested in learning more about it.  

May your memories of JJ console you through the holidays and the antics of the puppies add some joy.  Have a Blessed Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Ghilly

[Misfits4Me]

Oh Linda...I'm so sorry...Please accept my sympathy for ALL your losses.....You went above and beyond to help JJ & I for one, appreciate it.....I wish all animals could have such wonderful homes.....

I'd be interested in reading your printout......Would this disease have shown up on any type of testing or only by examination? I'm curious...I'm glad you found a doctor to help you.....Just knowing what was wrong makes a big difference.....Not knowing is awful....

I do hope the Holidays bring you some comfort...Even if it's small, it's better than none.....I'll be thinking about you......Have a blessed season, you deserve it!  Merry Christmas    Karla

[LindaTX]

Later yesterday morning his eyes looked worse and worse.  My husband and I decided to take him to a Dr in Temple who has an excellent reputation and has been in practice for 42 yrs.  He took one look at him and diagnosed him as having Masticatory Muscle Atrophy and Dropped Jaw.  Bad prognosis...in fact horrible prognosis...it would take more IV fluids, tube feeding for a long time, then steroids for the rest of his life with side-effects and that was no guarantee that he would get better.  He just was not strong enough to go through all that.  JJ was a big dog who liked to be free and he enjoyed our wide-open spaces.  We knew we couldn't confine him like we would have had to....so we made that heartbreaking decision to say good-bye.

I want everyone to know how very much I appreciate the support  you've all given me on here.  The Dr said he had only seen a handful of these cases.  He gave me a print-out about this diagnosis if anyone has any questions.  The symptoms are actually almost identical to rabies.  JJ had his rabies shot Aug. of 2010 and had had one or two in the years subsequent.

We've had a really bad couple of years...we lost 2 of our cats thanks to a stray dog that we took in.....2 cats this past summer to predators, probably coyotes and our donkey, Shrek to laminitis.  We have our 10 yr old, Barney (JJ's best friend) our 2 new Great Pyrenees puppies, Big Ben and Beau, who were 3 mo old on the 9th of this month ( we were planning on JJ being their mentor/trainer) and our 3 cats.  We sold all our cattle about 3 weeks ago because there is no food left in the pastures because of the horrendous drought Texas has been in for the past year.  Then 2 weeks ago it started raining and pretty much hasn't stopped...I guess I'm rambling but I guess I just don't know what could possibly happen next...

[Misfits4Me]

Hi Linda....Are you sure his bloodwork was normal? Do you have a copy that you can read & evaluate yourself? Can you get one?

My first thought was "Tick Borne Disease", too. Doesn't matter if it's this year without ticks or not.....

Has his throat been xrayed for blockage or tumor?

I'm also curious about Vaccines.....Had he just been vaccinated when this began?

Anyway, I like Connie, am brainstorming, but keep coming back to above mentioned..

Either way, I've been praying for your guy ever since you posted......I'm hoping that this can all be resolved......I'm thinking about you, too....Karla

[opus88]

hi Linda...just reading about poor JJ...sending you a link to a good site. could it be associated with HypoThyroidism? there can be laryngeal paralysis with this..also click on Megaesophagus further down the article..sure hope your Vets can get to the bottom of this for poor JJ...♥

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_laryngeal_paralysis.html

[LindaTX]

Thanks, Tony and Connie, I so much appreciate your support. Connie, first thing I thought of was a snake bite but no puncture marks.  Our Vet mentioned big frog, which is still a possibility, they can be poisonous.  No ticks to speak of because of the fire ants which have almost been erradicated by the drought.  I thought brown recluse (my daughter said no because there would be much more damage to him at the bite site).  I thought maybe black widow, we do have them.  Whatever it is has his throat area still "paralyzed. His drinking water was completely brown from lapping after trying to eat his soft dog food.

His eyes looked a tiny bit better this morning but still very red.  It's early so I haven't called our Vet yet but after I do I will post again.

[tonyb286]

Hi. Oh that is so disappointing. I thought the A&M were going to be so much better than that. Any vet that thinks JJ is a wolfhound clearly doesn't know his dog breeds. I think Connie has asked some good things there - being in the UK I wouldn't even have thought about those kind of problems. Give JJ a big hug from me and let us know how he is tomorrow. Tony

[TwoBitsMom]

I'm just brainstorming here....You mentioned the mouth lesions...and the fact that your vet is suggesting some type of toxicity....you have also mentioned possible snakebite...You live in Texas. In the country...could it possibly be that he grabbed a spider, some type of frog, or scorpion with his mouth...?  Like I said...I'm just brainstorming and thought I would throw it out there. Also, I don't know if you have ticks in Texas, but could it be a tick borne disease....?
Connie

[LindaTX]

Well, when I talked to our Vet this afternoon she said if we could take him this afternoon it would be better than waiting until tomorrow so she sent over the referral and we went and got him and took him over.  She said she would fax over all her notes and blood test results, etc.  When we got there we talked to a Med student at length about JJ's situation.  He said we'd be talking to Dr X, whom he said was an excellent Dr.  He then went and relayed the information and when he returned, a different Dr. for the evening hrs was with him.

Dr Y said he had examined JJ and said he thought JJ had a lot of wasting of muscle mass, more than he should have at his age.  He said it could be an underlying disease like cancer or any number of things.  He thought JJ was a Wolfhound, the student corrected him and he said they'd had a lot of large breed dogs in today.  Gee... With the questions he was asking I wondered if he'd even looked at my Vet's fax.  He said nothing showed up on the fax log.

JJ's eyes seemed about 75% better than from Sat.  Both the student and the Dr. said they'd never seen a dog's eyes look like that before. They seemed to downplay my dog's symptoms, the lesions in his mouth ( Dr Y said they had scabbed over and his tongue looked fine.)  I asked about the swallowing problem and they said even if they offered him water he probably wouldn't drink because of the stress of being there....what?  I asked if they could get him a bowl of water to try and see if he was able to drink and the student got one.  JJ almost immediately started lapping the water for a long period of time. They said they thought he was swallowing but he really wasn't.  He was drooling into the water while he was lapping.
They said if we admitted him, for the tests, MRI, ultrasound of abdomen and a complete battery of tests, it would be about $2,000.  They suggested we take him home and monitor him and coax him to try to eat and drink and he doesn't get better we can bring him in and they would admit him.  With Christmas and all, it will probably cost a lot more.  So JJ is here in our garage (it's storming outside) and we will be watching him closely.  They only charged us $!28 for the visit but they really didn't have any idea what the problem is.  I will call our vet in the morning and find out if she did indeed send the fax and pick up antibiotics and possibly steroids for inflammation.  His eyes still look very red but at least we can see his irises.  Sorry this is so long....I will post tomorrow and let you all know how he's doing.  Those lesions are mysterious, but I truly am more worried and afraid if he can't drink or eat he has some kind of pharyngeal paralysis.  I'll see if he shows any improvement overnight.

[tonyb286]

Hi Linda. Its good news about getting JJ to the Texas A&M for a diagnosis. I would make sure you mention the cattle feed and anything else you think it is possible JJ could have ingested, as this may help the A&M staff direct their diagnosis and subsequent treatment. Do keep us posted. Hope everything works out and you get a diagnosis - at least then you will have something to work on. Big hugs, Tony

[Ghilly]

Hi Linda, no worries.  Since I read your post about him having lesions in his mouth I don't really know now that the laryngeal paralysis would be a consideration any more.  It certainly does sound more like there is some type of toxicity at work here.  Hopefully they will be able to figure it out at A&M.  In the meantime, thoughts and prayers for JJ's recovery will continue.  Thanks for keeping us all posted.

Ghilly

[LindaTX]

Sorry, Ghilly....your post wasn't up yet when I just posted.  He is between 11-12 my husband said.  I will ask about this test when we take him from the Vet's to A&M tomorrow.  He has always drooled quite a bit so this could certainly be a possibility.  Thanks for that tip.

[LindaTX]

The Vet has suggested that we take him over to Texas A & M tomorrow to their diagnostic clinic.  We live about 45 mi. from there.  She has to refer him. We have come up with one more potential toxicity. My husband had some solid feed in a large pan for cattle. We sold our cattle so the pan was still out in the pasture and then we got rain finally and that probably turned the solid into a kind of liquid gel.  It was sweetened with molasses but also has urea, sodium selenite, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, zinc sulfate and oxide, manganese sulfate along with other minerals, ALL-In-One 30%. (pf4feed.com).  This stuff is only for ruminants (cows)..

We are just trying to come up with some cause....he is not really improving.  The Vet managed to get a little canned food down him.  She doesn't have a way to do an Electrolyte panel.  His tongue is still dark-colored and he has some lesions inside his mouth area.  My daughter an RVT and has never seen anything like this and neither has our Vet.

[Ghilly]

You have your beautiful JJ in the best place possible.  I am suspecting laryngeal paralysis.  This is an idiopathic condition that affects predominantly older, large breed dogs and it comes about gradually.   Dogs suffering from this cannot get in a deep breath and tend to pant and drool a lot.  The sound of their bark becomes different because the larynx isn't moving like it should.  They don't want to move around like they usually do because they can't catch their breath like they normally can.  There is a test they can do to see if this is the problem but the dog must be sedated for the test.  There are several surgical solutions for this condition, again, IF this is what he has.  You have him in the safest place since he can immediately be sedated and intubated if he goes into a crisis situation.  

Please post and let us know as soon as you hear back from your vet.  

[TwoBitsMom]

Hi LindaTX..
I am sorry to hear about JJ...Tony is right, he is a magnificent dog..!
I see that blood tests were done, and they appear normal.
What I wonder is, If the vet checked JJ's throat for any kind of blockage.
Is it possible that a bone,or growth, or something else is stuck in there....?
That would certainly explain all the symptoms he is having.
Have you noticed if he is drooling more than usual.?
I sure hope they can figure out what is going on.
My thoughts and prayers are with you both.
Connie

[LindaTX]

I appreciate your help and interest, Tony.  We took him to the Vet yesterday.  They kept him and started IV fluids.  His blood test was all normal.  The Vet is perplexed.  She called this evening and said his eyes are looking better, but he still cannot swallow food, it's as though his throat is paralyzed or partially anyway.  I guess we'll just wait and see what tomorrow brings.  We are really stumped.

[tonyb286]

The eyes are often affected if blood pressure starts to rise. This is another symptom of renal failure, acute or chronic, and can be tested by your vet. Sometimes this is not reverseable, sadly, but with acute renal failure and suitable treatment, the eyes can recover if they have not been too badly damaged. This is all hypothesis at this stage, as renal failure can only be diagnosed by your vet - it could just as easily be something other than this. The main reason for me having suspicions is that I have gone through kidney failure with one of my dogs this year and I did a whole lot of research on the issues and challenges it brings. Do let me know how things progress. Tony

[LindaTX]

Thanks, Tony...why would kidney problems affect his eyes in that way?