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chronic diarrhea in 8 year old dog please help
I don't know how else to help my 8 year old yorkshire terrier. He has always had a sensitive stomach. Bouts of diarrhea on and off and trips to the vet with antibiotics and fasting and gastro food. He has diarrhea again I feed him Orijen but was in the process of transitioning him onto Acana grainfree wildprairie. I know the diet change can cause diarrhea but the poor little guy is really suffering and I don't know what to do anymore. Can you please provide any suggestions.
Best Answer
Got final results his liver is not functioning properly. Not sure which test but his result was 53 when the normal maximum should be 15. Needs to be on a lose dose of metronidazole (25 mg twice a day) for the rest of his life and a low protein diet. I am upset but trying to be optimistic. Specialist to call me back since I only spoke to another vet today she was off today. All other results were normal. Only way to be 100 percent sure would be biopsy but I am not putting my guy through that. Could also be shunt disease but vet felt he is too old to operate so we are going to try to use therapeutic methods with diet and antibiotics. I was very upset earlier but now am trying to find the best dog food with low protein since I do not want to buy vet brand food. Saw Wellness SuperMix Senior has 18 percent protein compared to the 40 percent protein he is eating right now that should help? Any advice is welcome
Hospital called final tests will be in tomorrow. So I have to wait one more day. Thanks so much to all of you I will be back tomorrow.
He is with the specialist right now. So far ultrasound has eliminated cancer, liver is fine so it is not Shunt disease and only found slight inflammation in the intestine, Not sure if this is his age or something else. All other tests, blood, giardia adrenal gland etc. are being peformed and if nothing is found tomorrow he will be given a low dose antibiotic for the rest of his life. So far specialist is very encouraged and I am very pleased as well.
Thanks for coming back again with an update, Joe. I am so sorry it was necessary but having this info all in one place is bound to be helpful to other people researching their dogs symptoms.
At least you are getting on track with real knowledge now. I'll be eager to hear what the specialist has to say. I think it's better you decided to just go ahead with that appointment. Otherwise, you would likely just encounter more delays.
This should be treatable with fairly quick results, but you will have to continue treatment with antibiotics for several weeks to keep the parasites from reproducing and interrupt their lifecycle. This parasite is all around and difficult to eliminate from the environment (will survive freezing weather even) so I do worry about reoccurance. Cause and prevention in an adult dog will be a good questions to bring up with the specialist. Your vet is likely right that there is some underlying condition or reduced level of immunity making your dog susceptible to repeated infestations. That doesn't mean you don't treat though! Maybe the specialist will look for the root cause?
This Yorkie must be one tough little guy to fight through this so many times! I hope he's back to feeling good soon.
Good luck and please, let us know.
At least you are getting on track with real knowledge now. I'll be eager to hear what the specialist has to say. I think it's better you decided to just go ahead with that appointment. Otherwise, you would likely just encounter more delays.
This should be treatable with fairly quick results, but you will have to continue treatment with antibiotics for several weeks to keep the parasites from reproducing and interrupt their lifecycle. This parasite is all around and difficult to eliminate from the environment (will survive freezing weather even) so I do worry about reoccurance. Cause and prevention in an adult dog will be a good questions to bring up with the specialist. Your vet is likely right that there is some underlying condition or reduced level of immunity making your dog susceptible to repeated infestations. That doesn't mean you don't treat though! Maybe the specialist will look for the root cause?
This Yorkie must be one tough little guy to fight through this so many times! I hope he's back to feeling good soon.
Good luck and please, let us know.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I certainly will. I wish you and your dog the very best.
It may be so that a lowered immune response may have predisposed him to picking up the parasite in the first place, but I cannot see the rest of your vet's logic myself. Yes a stool sample should have been asked for. And yes, your dog should have necessary treatment for this. I just hope you have better response from the specialist.
And if there is any underlying problem which has predisposed him to picking up this parasite, I hope that can be got to the bottom of, too.
I would seriously consider changing your vet after the visit to the specialist.
It may be so that a lowered immune response may have predisposed him to picking up the parasite in the first place, but I cannot see the rest of your vet's logic myself. Yes a stool sample should have been asked for. And yes, your dog should have necessary treatment for this. I just hope you have better response from the specialist.
And if there is any underlying problem which has predisposed him to picking up this parasite, I hope that can be got to the bottom of, too.
I would seriously consider changing your vet after the visit to the specialist.
Imagine I had to go back to the vet the diarrhea started up again and I finally told my vet to prepare my file I was going to a specialist. I could not see my poor baby suffering anymore. The technician who was preparing my file noticed a stool sample had never been performed. She called and suggested doing one said the specialist would want one. I asked why it had never been suggested by my vet. Sure enough he has full blown Coccidiosis! I am devastated. She will not admit she missed the most obvious of tests. Everyone in her office even the other vets said they are not impressed with her. She does not even want to help me now says my dog has an illness or else he would not of caught that parasite it is only puppies who catch it. I am not giving up on him and still going to the specialist on the 10th of november. Please pray for us and keep us in our thoughts.
Yippee!!!!!!!! I'm excited for both of you...Please, keep us updated.....And good job, Joe!
Karla
Karla
ooops........ a special thank you to the both of you for your support, kindness and knowledge!
just an update fingers crossed my baby is still doing great. 100 percent transition is complete and stools are perfect and they have been for a couple of weeks now. I am alternating a bit of probiotic plain yogurt and Florentero probiotic my vet prescribed daily along with the Acana grain free Wild Prairie. The lower protein has seemed to do the trick.
A special thank you to
A special thank you to
What's In The Giardia Kit#21
BacPakPlus probiotics - It is my experience that NO other probiotic will work well for this extreme problem. You can purchase something locally to get your dog started before your BacPakPlus arrives but this probiotic does the trick.
Use MSM, not just any brand but VitaFlex because it has been around the longest and this info on MSM and Giardia was in their research and patent information. MSM patent (#4,616,039) research information on MSM, states
"the MSM dosage for treating Giardia to be 500 mg - 3 times a day for two weeks, then continue with 1000 mg a day to help prevent Giardia re-infestation. Once an animal/human has Giardia infestation, they may have a reoccurrence of it throughout out their life."
So keep that in mind. According to the Vita-Flex label you can double this dose under stress. The following instructions from the container are for Canine use of MSM. 1/4 teaspoon = 1000 mg or 1 gram
1- 45 lb. - 1/4 teaspoon
Give these amounts twice a day for 10 days. If you notice any relief in your pet's symptoms, you can move down to once a day. You may choose to continue the double dose indefinitely if it takes that amount for relief of symptoms. When in doubt contact the company.
Nzymes granulars or chewable pet treats- to detoxify the body and restore wellness due to nutritional losses caused by Giardia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example Story:
Pet owner writes: "We had her stool checked again for Giardia it was negative, of course".
My Response: "From all that you are telling me, this dog has Giardia - you simply can't find it! It is so hard to find you just need to treat for it.Discuss with your vet about worming her with Panacur - do it for 4-5 days, then in 11-13 days take the same dosage you have for 4-5 days. This Giardia is IMPOSSIBLE to find. Everything you tell me says this is a giardia dog and you won't get relief until you get this cleared up. I know one pre-vet student that ended up taking her dog to work with her, pulling a fresh stool samples 3 times a day for several days before they actually found it - and here she is working with the vets right there in the laboratory at UC Davis and even they didn't find it! You have nothing to lose to try my suggestion because at this point nothing else is working."
Owners Response After Following My Suggestion:
We saw a new vet at the office and I convinced her to treat for Giardia with Panacur, per your suggestion. Within 2 days, her stools looked better than I had seen in a long time. Within a week, she gained 3 pounds. She still isn't eating a lot yet , but 2 1/2 cups dry and 1 can is better than barely 1 cup dry with gravy per day. She's gaining weight! She's definitely feeling better. Anyway, thanks again. I REALLY APPRECIATE everything. - TSM
MORE INFO ABOUT GIARDIA
Giardia - this is a waterborne protozoa (a parasite, but not a worm) which is VERY difficult to detect. Only at certain cycles will the cysts be noticeable in the stool which makes it next to impossible to detect. To test for this you need to to have the vet go up inside the rectum with a loop and take a fresh/warm sample of stool from the dog in order to get an accurate reading. You can’t bring one in in a baggie! Even if the dog shows up as negative for Giardia, and the dog exhibits any of these symptoms, you need to discuss with your vet the necessity to treat for Giardia, in order to rule out any infestation.
Anytime you have a dog that will not gain weight, is on/off their feed and/or with intermittent loose stools, gas or diarrhea, you should check for Giardia first, before you start running up vet bills looking for other health problems. Sometimes these dogs will not eat, because Giardia causes such stomach upset and severe cramping. It is because of this, they will often graze on grasses excessively.
Giardia is a very big problem, one that goes undetected by most veterinarians Carol Turkington writes, "Once an infestation of Giardia, it often reoccurs. Giardia is spread by food or water contaminated by the Giardia protozoan organism found in the intestinal tract and feces. When the cysts are ingested, the stomach acid degrades the cysts and releases the active parasite into the body. Once within the body, the parasites cling to the lining of the small intestine, reproduce, and are swept into the fecal stream. As the liquid content of the bowel dries up, the parasites form cysts, which are then passed in the feces. Once excreted, the cysts can survive in water for more than three months. The parasite is spread further by direct fecal-oral contamination, such as can occur if food is prepared without adequate hand-washing, or by ingesting the cysts in water or food."
Turkington goes on to state, "Diagnosis can be difficult because it can be easy to overlook the presence of the Giardia cysts during a routine inspection of a stool specimen. In the past, the condition has been diagnosed by examining three stool samples for the presence of the parasites. However, because the organism is shed in some stool samples and not others, the infection may not be discovered using this method. A newer, more accurate method of diagnosing the condition is the enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) that detects cysts and antigen in stool, and is approximately 90% accurate. While slightly more expensive, it only needs to be done once and is therefore less expensive overall than the earlier test."
Generally, Flagyll, Metronidazole and Panacur are often used for Giardia, and repeated again in 2 weeks if the symptoms have not subsided.
In 2001, Flagyll (Metronidazole) appeared effective in only about 60% of the cases. "Currently, some vets feel the effectiveness of Flagyl (Metronidazole) is down to 40%. Known side effects of Flagyl are nausea, disorientation, yeast growth, liver failure depression, regurgitation, and nerve damage".
* www.holisticbirds.com
This is another waterborne parasite that vets do not test for but could be at the root of your problem. Ask you vet to read about Cryptosporidiosis
* Found this one and thought it may help you........Karla
BacPakPlus probiotics - It is my experience that NO other probiotic will work well for this extreme problem. You can purchase something locally to get your dog started before your BacPakPlus arrives but this probiotic does the trick.
Use MSM, not just any brand but VitaFlex because it has been around the longest and this info on MSM and Giardia was in their research and patent information. MSM patent (#4,616,039) research information on MSM, states
"the MSM dosage for treating Giardia to be 500 mg - 3 times a day for two weeks, then continue with 1000 mg a day to help prevent Giardia re-infestation. Once an animal/human has Giardia infestation, they may have a reoccurrence of it throughout out their life."
So keep that in mind. According to the Vita-Flex label you can double this dose under stress. The following instructions from the container are for Canine use of MSM. 1/4 teaspoon = 1000 mg or 1 gram
1- 45 lb. - 1/4 teaspoon
Give these amounts twice a day for 10 days. If you notice any relief in your pet's symptoms, you can move down to once a day. You may choose to continue the double dose indefinitely if it takes that amount for relief of symptoms. When in doubt contact the company.
Nzymes granulars or chewable pet treats- to detoxify the body and restore wellness due to nutritional losses caused by Giardia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example Story:
Pet owner writes: "We had her stool checked again for Giardia it was negative, of course".
My Response: "From all that you are telling me, this dog has Giardia - you simply can't find it! It is so hard to find you just need to treat for it.Discuss with your vet about worming her with Panacur - do it for 4-5 days, then in 11-13 days take the same dosage you have for 4-5 days. This Giardia is IMPOSSIBLE to find. Everything you tell me says this is a giardia dog and you won't get relief until you get this cleared up. I know one pre-vet student that ended up taking her dog to work with her, pulling a fresh stool samples 3 times a day for several days before they actually found it - and here she is working with the vets right there in the laboratory at UC Davis and even they didn't find it! You have nothing to lose to try my suggestion because at this point nothing else is working."
Owners Response After Following My Suggestion:
We saw a new vet at the office and I convinced her to treat for Giardia with Panacur, per your suggestion. Within 2 days, her stools looked better than I had seen in a long time. Within a week, she gained 3 pounds. She still isn't eating a lot yet , but 2 1/2 cups dry and 1 can is better than barely 1 cup dry with gravy per day. She's gaining weight! She's definitely feeling better. Anyway, thanks again. I REALLY APPRECIATE everything. - TSM
MORE INFO ABOUT GIARDIA
Giardia - this is a waterborne protozoa (a parasite, but not a worm) which is VERY difficult to detect. Only at certain cycles will the cysts be noticeable in the stool which makes it next to impossible to detect. To test for this you need to to have the vet go up inside the rectum with a loop and take a fresh/warm sample of stool from the dog in order to get an accurate reading. You can’t bring one in in a baggie! Even if the dog shows up as negative for Giardia, and the dog exhibits any of these symptoms, you need to discuss with your vet the necessity to treat for Giardia, in order to rule out any infestation.
Anytime you have a dog that will not gain weight, is on/off their feed and/or with intermittent loose stools, gas or diarrhea, you should check for Giardia first, before you start running up vet bills looking for other health problems. Sometimes these dogs will not eat, because Giardia causes such stomach upset and severe cramping. It is because of this, they will often graze on grasses excessively.
Giardia is a very big problem, one that goes undetected by most veterinarians Carol Turkington writes, "Once an infestation of Giardia, it often reoccurs. Giardia is spread by food or water contaminated by the Giardia protozoan organism found in the intestinal tract and feces. When the cysts are ingested, the stomach acid degrades the cysts and releases the active parasite into the body. Once within the body, the parasites cling to the lining of the small intestine, reproduce, and are swept into the fecal stream. As the liquid content of the bowel dries up, the parasites form cysts, which are then passed in the feces. Once excreted, the cysts can survive in water for more than three months. The parasite is spread further by direct fecal-oral contamination, such as can occur if food is prepared without adequate hand-washing, or by ingesting the cysts in water or food."
Turkington goes on to state, "Diagnosis can be difficult because it can be easy to overlook the presence of the Giardia cysts during a routine inspection of a stool specimen. In the past, the condition has been diagnosed by examining three stool samples for the presence of the parasites. However, because the organism is shed in some stool samples and not others, the infection may not be discovered using this method. A newer, more accurate method of diagnosing the condition is the enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) that detects cysts and antigen in stool, and is approximately 90% accurate. While slightly more expensive, it only needs to be done once and is therefore less expensive overall than the earlier test."
Generally, Flagyll, Metronidazole and Panacur are often used for Giardia, and repeated again in 2 weeks if the symptoms have not subsided.
In 2001, Flagyll (Metronidazole) appeared effective in only about 60% of the cases. "Currently, some vets feel the effectiveness of Flagyl (Metronidazole) is down to 40%. Known side effects of Flagyl are nausea, disorientation, yeast growth, liver failure depression, regurgitation, and nerve damage".
* www.holisticbirds.com
This is another waterborne parasite that vets do not test for but could be at the root of your problem. Ask you vet to read about Cryptosporidiosis
* Found this one and thought it may help you........Karla
GREATDANELADY.COM
Linda Arndt ~ Canine Nutritional Consultant
Email:
Giardia Protozoa ( Diarrhea, Vomiting & Weight Loss)
Introduction to Giardia Protozoa
If I had a dime for every email I received about reoccurring loose stools or constant diarrhea, I'd be able to buy a winery in the south of France. It is a frustrating situation for small dog owners, so you can imagine a giant breed with loose stools is no fun at all!
Honestly, after skin issues, diarrhea seems to be the next biggest challenge for pet owners. It is especially so for those who have adopted a rescue dog, or purchased a dog from a "less than desirable" kennel situation or pet shop, or purchased a dog that has been under great stress before coming to your home.
If it is a young puppy, Coccidia is often the problem and easy to find in a fecal test then treat with Albon. Coccidia stools have a very distinct sour smell to them. In older puppies and adults Giardia Protozoa is often the culprit, and it is next to IMPOSSIBLE TO DETECT because you have to catch it just at the right cyst cycle, or it is not evident there is a Giardia problem.
If it were me I would simply forget the testing and worm with Panacur wormer (info below). Nothing else works for Giardia, and Metronidazole and Flagyl only stops it for a short time, then it returns. Plus dogs that have the potential for the MDR1 mutation gene (Collies, Shelties, Aussies, etc. with the merle gene should not be given Metronidazole or Flagyl).
Dogs with access to lakes, ponds, standing water are more prone to getting Giardia but if you have a problem with more than one dog and you have a well, I would certainly have your water tested for it. Giardia is now a relatively normal organism in the digestive tract and when under stress it becomes problematic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before you do you worm with Panacur for Giardia, also need to investigate the possibility of another organism called Clostridium difficile - detailed info in this article - Seasonal Diarrhea.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Giardia Protozoa is next to impossible to find in a stool check. For some dogs loose stools are due to over feeding the dog, try cutting back a little for a couple of days and see if that makes a difference. For some it is a digestive sensitivity so a change to a better brand of dog food ,this could take care of the problem and adding a good probiotic daily, even if it is on the food already can make a big difference.
When your dog is on an antibiotic, understress or being wormed. It is very important to use a combination probiotic product that has some beneficial bacteria in it that are microencapsulated so they release down into the lower digestive tract.
After all this has been tried and it still continues...then it is time to worm with Panacur. Most dogs with a loose stools end up being treated repeatedly with Flagyll or Metronidazole, but is only temporary, it just does not work and the dog should not be left on an antibiotic for a long period of time, this is not the best choice for the dog as it destroys the beneficial bacteria of the gut and compromises the immune system. Long term antibiotic use also leads to systemic (whole system) yeast/fungal problems.
It is a very frustrating problem for both vets and owners. Giardia is a problem to young dogs due to the stress their body's are under during those first few months of development. Giardia is an enormous problem with rescue dogs because they have been neglected and compromised on many levels before they get into a foster situation.
I can NOT emphasize enough that giardia tests rarely find this parasite, because the cyst cycle of this organism it is next to impossible to find. I tell my puppy buyers to forget the testing and just go ahead and worm with Panacur under the guidence of their vet. Right now, it is the only thing working with success, but it has to be used twice.
Worm for a 4-5 day cycle - mix in their food, then worm again in another 11-13 days and they MUST be on a probiotic at the same time. Yogurt will not do it. It is not powerful enough to reseed the gut. Your vet will give you instructions on worming according to weight etc. Giardia has become such a big problem in this country, that I was asked to develop a support feed program to get the giardia dog back on track.
What To Do First
1) Order KIT #21 - GIARDIA - ANTI-PARASITE SUPPORT
Contact: www.firstchoicenaturals.com OR 800-937-1104.
2) I would buy Panacur from your vet and/or purchase Panacur at Medi-Vet- and worm the dog for 4-5 days based on weight. (Get the instructions from Medi-Vet as well). Follow the instructions for worming. You will need to worm twice so get double the amount and worm the dog again 11 - 13 days later.
The point is to try and catch this protozoa at the cyst cycle that it is vulnerable. You must use a probiotic or the loose stool will not stop, even if wormed.
Make sure you discuss the pros and cons of Panacur with your vet or the vet at Medi-Vet in case some breeds are particularly sensitive to this wormer and make sure YOUR BREED can take this drug.
-----------CONTINUED in next message--------------------
Linda Arndt ~ Canine Nutritional Consultant
Email:
Giardia Protozoa ( Diarrhea, Vomiting & Weight Loss)
Introduction to Giardia Protozoa
If I had a dime for every email I received about reoccurring loose stools or constant diarrhea, I'd be able to buy a winery in the south of France. It is a frustrating situation for small dog owners, so you can imagine a giant breed with loose stools is no fun at all!
Honestly, after skin issues, diarrhea seems to be the next biggest challenge for pet owners. It is especially so for those who have adopted a rescue dog, or purchased a dog from a "less than desirable" kennel situation or pet shop, or purchased a dog that has been under great stress before coming to your home.
If it is a young puppy, Coccidia is often the problem and easy to find in a fecal test then treat with Albon. Coccidia stools have a very distinct sour smell to them. In older puppies and adults Giardia Protozoa is often the culprit, and it is next to IMPOSSIBLE TO DETECT because you have to catch it just at the right cyst cycle, or it is not evident there is a Giardia problem.
If it were me I would simply forget the testing and worm with Panacur wormer (info below). Nothing else works for Giardia, and Metronidazole and Flagyl only stops it for a short time, then it returns. Plus dogs that have the potential for the MDR1 mutation gene (Collies, Shelties, Aussies, etc. with the merle gene should not be given Metronidazole or Flagyl).
Dogs with access to lakes, ponds, standing water are more prone to getting Giardia but if you have a problem with more than one dog and you have a well, I would certainly have your water tested for it. Giardia is now a relatively normal organism in the digestive tract and when under stress it becomes problematic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before you do you worm with Panacur for Giardia, also need to investigate the possibility of another organism called Clostridium difficile - detailed info in this article - Seasonal Diarrhea.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Giardia Protozoa is next to impossible to find in a stool check. For some dogs loose stools are due to over feeding the dog, try cutting back a little for a couple of days and see if that makes a difference. For some it is a digestive sensitivity so a change to a better brand of dog food ,this could take care of the problem and adding a good probiotic daily, even if it is on the food already can make a big difference.
When your dog is on an antibiotic, understress or being wormed. It is very important to use a combination probiotic product that has some beneficial bacteria in it that are microencapsulated so they release down into the lower digestive tract.
After all this has been tried and it still continues...then it is time to worm with Panacur. Most dogs with a loose stools end up being treated repeatedly with Flagyll or Metronidazole, but is only temporary, it just does not work and the dog should not be left on an antibiotic for a long period of time, this is not the best choice for the dog as it destroys the beneficial bacteria of the gut and compromises the immune system. Long term antibiotic use also leads to systemic (whole system) yeast/fungal problems.
It is a very frustrating problem for both vets and owners. Giardia is a problem to young dogs due to the stress their body's are under during those first few months of development. Giardia is an enormous problem with rescue dogs because they have been neglected and compromised on many levels before they get into a foster situation.
I can NOT emphasize enough that giardia tests rarely find this parasite, because the cyst cycle of this organism it is next to impossible to find. I tell my puppy buyers to forget the testing and just go ahead and worm with Panacur under the guidence of their vet. Right now, it is the only thing working with success, but it has to be used twice.
Worm for a 4-5 day cycle - mix in their food, then worm again in another 11-13 days and they MUST be on a probiotic at the same time. Yogurt will not do it. It is not powerful enough to reseed the gut. Your vet will give you instructions on worming according to weight etc. Giardia has become such a big problem in this country, that I was asked to develop a support feed program to get the giardia dog back on track.
What To Do First
1) Order KIT #21 - GIARDIA - ANTI-PARASITE SUPPORT
Contact: www.firstchoicenaturals.com OR 800-937-1104.
2) I would buy Panacur from your vet and/or purchase Panacur at Medi-Vet- and worm the dog for 4-5 days based on weight. (Get the instructions from Medi-Vet as well). Follow the instructions for worming. You will need to worm twice so get double the amount and worm the dog again 11 - 13 days later.
The point is to try and catch this protozoa at the cyst cycle that it is vulnerable. You must use a probiotic or the loose stool will not stop, even if wormed.
Make sure you discuss the pros and cons of Panacur with your vet or the vet at Medi-Vet in case some breeds are particularly sensitive to this wormer and make sure YOUR BREED can take this drug.
-----------CONTINUED in next message--------------------
The reason for the switches over the past 8 1/2 years are due to living and learning. My yorkie is almost 9 years old and he has changed food not that often I was feeding him Royal Canin Yorkshire food for a couple of years until I found out it wasn't really as good a food as I thought then went with the Eagle Pack Holistic for a couple more years until I once again realized there were better foods on the market and then the Orijen grain free for a couple of years (which he thrived on and loved) and have now switched him to the sister food Acana Wild Prairie almost identical to Orijen but a bit less protein 33 percent instead of 40 in the hopes the lower protein might help.
He does not always have diarrhea but can have bouts of it on and off and the last couple of months he seemed to be having trouble digesting and needed to take antibiotics twice when I could not stop the diarrhea.
We live in the city not where wild animals walk around. My vet said that the fact that he can be fine for months at a time eliminates any of those possibilities? his blood tests were fine.
The switch is almost complete 90 percent new food and he is doing great for the past week. I know we are not out of the woods but I and my yorkie are enjoying the good days !
He does not always have diarrhea but can have bouts of it on and off and the last couple of months he seemed to be having trouble digesting and needed to take antibiotics twice when I could not stop the diarrhea.
We live in the city not where wild animals walk around. My vet said that the fact that he can be fine for months at a time eliminates any of those possibilities? his blood tests were fine.
The switch is almost complete 90 percent new food and he is doing great for the past week. I know we are not out of the woods but I and my yorkie are enjoying the good days !
Why are you changing his food so much? Not a remark, a question. That will really mess up a dogs stomach. The other thing that comes to mind is, is he around standing water or a lake or river or anything like that? Do you live anywhere where wild animals walk around? Has the doctor checked for giardia? It can literally be transported from his paws stepping where a wild animal or other dog stepped and had wet feet from a contaminated sourse (river, etc.). Or, do you walk in those areas?
This is just a thought, usually when diahrrea is so chronic they find out it's giardia all along. But if that is not the case, then he should go on a completely bland diet for awhile until his stomach selttles down. My vet said white rice and baby food, period. It works and m dog loves it. I wouldn't be feeding him his regular food while he has this bad of diahrrea. Good luck.
This is just a thought, usually when diahrrea is so chronic they find out it's giardia all along. But if that is not the case, then he should go on a completely bland diet for awhile until his stomach selttles down. My vet said white rice and baby food, period. It works and m dog loves it. I wouldn't be feeding him his regular food while he has this bad of diahrrea. Good luck.
I'm so glad there is more sleep and less poo for both of you. Happiness seems so simple sometimes.
I will caution you Joe that my dog with C. Perfringens would seem to be okay as long as I changed the diet in some way every other day or so. I added or subtracted things like digestive enzymes, flax, sweet potato, brown rice, yogurt, acidophillus and hamberg. I finally realized that it didn't matter what changed. It apparently was the change itself that kept the gut guessing. Three days of same-old-same-old and she reverted to pancake batter poop. I have found that Omega-3 (I sprinkled flax onto food) did help stop true allergy symptoms.
I have also been known to make and freeze my own brand of "sick dog food". The name describes the animal, not the food. I'd brown about 1.5 lb of ground beef using the less lean 70/30 or 80/20 mix. Fat takes longer to digest so slows down the gut and keeps a little something in an irritated belly a bit longer. After browning well, move the meat to the sides and place water and Minute rice in the center (1.5 to 2 cups of each), cover and simmer until water is absorbed, then mix well and store in freezer bags containing enough for one or two days. I always had it on hand when needed in an emergency and if the dog didn't eat it I knew he was REALLY feeling bad. Looked gross when the fat was frozen but thawed fine, could be warmed quickly in the microwave, was easy to serve in small/frequent portions and smelled loads better to me than the expensive stuff the vet sold! You can certainly do something similar with chicken and brown rice.
I will caution you Joe that my dog with C. Perfringens would seem to be okay as long as I changed the diet in some way every other day or so. I added or subtracted things like digestive enzymes, flax, sweet potato, brown rice, yogurt, acidophillus and hamberg. I finally realized that it didn't matter what changed. It apparently was the change itself that kept the gut guessing. Three days of same-old-same-old and she reverted to pancake batter poop. I have found that Omega-3 (I sprinkled flax onto food) did help stop true allergy symptoms.
I have also been known to make and freeze my own brand of "sick dog food". The name describes the animal, not the food. I'd brown about 1.5 lb of ground beef using the less lean 70/30 or 80/20 mix. Fat takes longer to digest so slows down the gut and keeps a little something in an irritated belly a bit longer. After browning well, move the meat to the sides and place water and Minute rice in the center (1.5 to 2 cups of each), cover and simmer until water is absorbed, then mix well and store in freezer bags containing enough for one or two days. I always had it on hand when needed in an emergency and if the dog didn't eat it I knew he was REALLY feeling bad. Looked gross when the fat was frozen but thawed fine, could be warmed quickly in the microwave, was easy to serve in small/frequent portions and smelled loads better to me than the expensive stuff the vet sold! You can certainly do something similar with chicken and brown rice.
Good morning to the both of you,
You two are wonderful.
Misfits4me, you are correct Zeus has always eaten chicken based foods, vet always said that was the easiest to digest and always said since his stomach was sensitive not to change his protein base. I did try the Orijen fish but my little Yorkie did not like it but I could I suppose when things calm down try a lamb formula.
Zeus has been off his anitbiotics since beginning of August and has finally seemed to take a turn for the better. He is up to 75% Acana Wild Prairie and 25% Gastro MediCal food and has had normal stools for the past 5 days and been in great spiritis. The first few days he had maybe 10% Acana and 90% Gastro. I finally stopped trying to mix the Orijen and Acana together and decided to take him completely off the Orijen and do the transition with the Gastro and Acana. I suppose the real test will be when he gets off the Gastro food completely.
I agree with twopack and refused to feed Zeus the garbage hypoallergenic foods the vets push on you was even relunctant to feed the gastro food. I think next time I will just make my own chicken and rice recipe. I am supplementing with Florentero prebiotics the vet prescribed and so thankful to have gotten a couple of good nights sleep as is my little darling. (he had me up and outside around 6 times per night).
Do not worry I will not give up on him and will keep you posted. Thank you so much for your support this community is filled with wonderful animal lovers. Thanks girls !!
You two are wonderful.
Misfits4me, you are correct Zeus has always eaten chicken based foods, vet always said that was the easiest to digest and always said since his stomach was sensitive not to change his protein base. I did try the Orijen fish but my little Yorkie did not like it but I could I suppose when things calm down try a lamb formula.
Zeus has been off his anitbiotics since beginning of August and has finally seemed to take a turn for the better. He is up to 75% Acana Wild Prairie and 25% Gastro MediCal food and has had normal stools for the past 5 days and been in great spiritis. The first few days he had maybe 10% Acana and 90% Gastro. I finally stopped trying to mix the Orijen and Acana together and decided to take him completely off the Orijen and do the transition with the Gastro and Acana. I suppose the real test will be when he gets off the Gastro food completely.
I agree with twopack and refused to feed Zeus the garbage hypoallergenic foods the vets push on you was even relunctant to feed the gastro food. I think next time I will just make my own chicken and rice recipe. I am supplementing with Florentero prebiotics the vet prescribed and so thankful to have gotten a couple of good nights sleep as is my little darling. (he had me up and outside around 6 times per night).
Do not worry I will not give up on him and will keep you posted. Thank you so much for your support this community is filled with wonderful animal lovers. Thanks girls !!
Sorry, but I have a hard time believing this is food sensitivity. Frankly, I'm at a loss as to why vets are labeling anything and everything they don't have an answer to as allergies or food reactions. Why are canines suddenly so unable to tolerate a protein source they have tolerated for centuries?
Joe reports his dog responds well to antibiotic treatment in the short term. I don't think that would be true if his diarrhea was based in food intolerance. Sure do hope Joe comes back with an update though.
Joe reports his dog responds well to antibiotic treatment in the short term. I don't think that would be true if his diarrhea was based in food intolerance. Sure do hope Joe comes back with an update though.
Well Joe, it's taken me awhile, but I've done some research and this is what I've come up with:
The foods you have fed, that he has had TROUBLE with; I will only list the first 4-5 ingredients as those are the bulk of the food in the order they appear on the label....(The order is listed from greatest to least).
1. Eagle Pack Holistic Adult - Chicken Meal, Yellow Corn, Chicken Fat, Pork meal, etc.
2. Orijen Adult - Chicken, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Potato, etc. (He was on this one when this all started again. Correct?
3. Acana Wild Prairie - Chicken meal, Potato, Chicken, Peas, Chicken fat, etc. (Your feeding this one now, right? But, he's on antibiotics also, correct? How is he doing on this one?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, the ones he has done WELL on:
1. Royal Canine Gastro - Rice, Corn Meal, Poultry Meal, Corn Gluten, Corn, etc.
2. Medi Cal Gastro - Corn, Rice, Potato, Egg, Poultry fat, Lamb Meal, etc.
Do you see that both of these are all Grain based? NO PROTEIN! That's why he can't live on them forever.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, what I'm thinking is that he has a FOOD INTOLERANCE (Not Allergy) to Chicken...It's possible that it's to ALL Poultry including Turkey & Usually Eggs, too...
A Food ALLERGY presents as Skin problems: Rashes, biting, itching, chewing feet inflamed ears, etc. A Food INTOLERENCE presents as Diarrhea or Vomiting or both!
Here's the List for top Allergy/Intolerance Foods: Chicken, Beef, Dairy, Eggs, Corn, Wheat, Soy.
Compare the lists (Above) and you'll see it........
If you have never tried a Novel Protein source for him, then I think you should! DON'T go with Beef, either! Try A Lamb Recipe, Venison, Duck, Fish or Buffalo. Stay with it for at least 6 wks. and see if there's a difference....Read the label and watch out for Poultry Fat or Chicken Fat listed on the ingredients list....Find something else!
I DO believe this is worth a shot!! Come back and let us know how your guy is doing......Karla
Some food choices:
Natural Balance makes: Fish & Sweet Potato, Duck & Potato, Venison & Sweet potato.
Wellness Simple Solutions makes a Duck & Rice, or Venison & Rice.
Addiction Dehydrated makes a Lamb & Herbed Potato & Venison w/Apricots (I think).
Eagle Pack makes an Anchovy/ Sardine Food & a Lamb w/ Rice.
Orijen makes - 6 Fish Dog There are many others.....Good luck
The foods you have fed, that he has had TROUBLE with; I will only list the first 4-5 ingredients as those are the bulk of the food in the order they appear on the label....(The order is listed from greatest to least).
1. Eagle Pack Holistic Adult - Chicken Meal, Yellow Corn, Chicken Fat, Pork meal, etc.
2. Orijen Adult - Chicken, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Potato, etc. (He was on this one when this all started again. Correct?
3. Acana Wild Prairie - Chicken meal, Potato, Chicken, Peas, Chicken fat, etc. (Your feeding this one now, right? But, he's on antibiotics also, correct? How is he doing on this one?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, the ones he has done WELL on:
1. Royal Canine Gastro - Rice, Corn Meal, Poultry Meal, Corn Gluten, Corn, etc.
2. Medi Cal Gastro - Corn, Rice, Potato, Egg, Poultry fat, Lamb Meal, etc.
Do you see that both of these are all Grain based? NO PROTEIN! That's why he can't live on them forever.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, what I'm thinking is that he has a FOOD INTOLERANCE (Not Allergy) to Chicken...It's possible that it's to ALL Poultry including Turkey & Usually Eggs, too...
A Food ALLERGY presents as Skin problems: Rashes, biting, itching, chewing feet inflamed ears, etc. A Food INTOLERENCE presents as Diarrhea or Vomiting or both!
Here's the List for top Allergy/Intolerance Foods: Chicken, Beef, Dairy, Eggs, Corn, Wheat, Soy.
Compare the lists (Above) and you'll see it........
If you have never tried a Novel Protein source for him, then I think you should! DON'T go with Beef, either! Try A Lamb Recipe, Venison, Duck, Fish or Buffalo. Stay with it for at least 6 wks. and see if there's a difference....Read the label and watch out for Poultry Fat or Chicken Fat listed on the ingredients list....Find something else!
I DO believe this is worth a shot!! Come back and let us know how your guy is doing......Karla
Some food choices:
Natural Balance makes: Fish & Sweet Potato, Duck & Potato, Venison & Sweet potato.
Wellness Simple Solutions makes a Duck & Rice, or Venison & Rice.
Addiction Dehydrated makes a Lamb & Herbed Potato & Venison w/Apricots (I think).
Eagle Pack makes an Anchovy/ Sardine Food & a Lamb w/ Rice.
Orijen makes - 6 Fish Dog There are many others.....Good luck
I know the frustration Joe from personal experience with a few beloved canine friends. That's why I had to respond with anything that might help. My dogs have been larger breeds. It must be really tough on your little guy to experience repeated diarrhea.
I've found a good vet and I've done a fair bit of research. My experience as a people nurse helps me to understand and learn more about animals. Still, I'm no vet and have offered only a few of the many, many possible causes of diarrhea. I do hope something I've shared here helps and you can find the treatment that will bring healthfull living to your little Yorkie. It's clear he already experiences the lovin' part. Please let us know what you discover.
I've found a good vet and I've done a fair bit of research. My experience as a people nurse helps me to understand and learn more about animals. Still, I'm no vet and have offered only a few of the many, many possible causes of diarrhea. I do hope something I've shared here helps and you can find the treatment that will bring healthfull living to your little Yorkie. It's clear he already experiences the lovin' part. Please let us know what you discover.
thank you. You seem very knowledgeable. It is very frustrating. I love my dog like a child. (I don't have any children) and I know his digestion is off and he is suffering. He is a wonderful dog when he is feeling well. I will not give up trying to find a solution.
Yes the antibiotics work and as you say as time passes the symptoms seem to slowly return.
Yes the antibiotics work and as you say as time passes the symptoms seem to slowly return.
Has your dog responded to antibiltic treatment only to have symptoms return when the pills run out? If so, that and your suggestion that this is a chronic and intermittent problem for your dog, might suggest you are dealing with one of the harder to treat or recurrent type gut problems. Irritable or inflammatory bowel disease are certainly possible causes. There are also some treatable but often overlooked infectious diseases.
One would be guardia, a protozoan parasite. I think it's more common in puppies but some adult dogs can be prone to repeated infestation. This parasite is abundant in the environment, especially in standing water (the reason not to let dogs drink from puddles). It is responsive to antibiotic treatment but may need extended dosage.
Another problem seen with increasing frequency (since it is a little better understood recently) is Clostridium Perfringens Enterotoxicosis. The anerobic (living without oxygen) bacteria that causes it resides in the stool of many dogs without causing symptoms. But if an unknown trigger causes it to produce toxin producing spores, water is secreted into the bowels and a colitis type diarrhea results. Stool can be loose and cause the dog to continue to strain after elimination or it can be mixed with large amounts of mucus and/or blood. The test for this condition must look for the toxin, NOT just the bacteria. The test for the toxin requires a larger sample than is needed for a routine stool check, is expensive to have done and is often sent out to a speciality lab BUT if it is positive you have the advantage of knowing what you are treating. Like guardia, this condition is treated with antibiotics. It is however more difficult to eliminate and may require weeks to months of specific antibiotic therapy.
You can find more info by doing an internet search and then work with your vet as both require prescriptions for treatment and professional follow-up. I hope you are able to find the specific cause of your dog's diarrhea. It can be a frustrating and costly problem for canines and humans!
One would be guardia, a protozoan parasite. I think it's more common in puppies but some adult dogs can be prone to repeated infestation. This parasite is abundant in the environment, especially in standing water (the reason not to let dogs drink from puddles). It is responsive to antibiotic treatment but may need extended dosage.
Another problem seen with increasing frequency (since it is a little better understood recently) is Clostridium Perfringens Enterotoxicosis. The anerobic (living without oxygen) bacteria that causes it resides in the stool of many dogs without causing symptoms. But if an unknown trigger causes it to produce toxin producing spores, water is secreted into the bowels and a colitis type diarrhea results. Stool can be loose and cause the dog to continue to strain after elimination or it can be mixed with large amounts of mucus and/or blood. The test for this condition must look for the toxin, NOT just the bacteria. The test for the toxin requires a larger sample than is needed for a routine stool check, is expensive to have done and is often sent out to a speciality lab BUT if it is positive you have the advantage of knowing what you are treating. Like guardia, this condition is treated with antibiotics. It is however more difficult to eliminate and may require weeks to months of specific antibiotic therapy.
You can find more info by doing an internet search and then work with your vet as both require prescriptions for treatment and professional follow-up. I hope you are able to find the specific cause of your dog's diarrhea. It can be a frustrating and costly problem for canines and humans!
Zeus has eaten Royal Canin for Yorkshire Terriers, Eagle Pack Holistic Brand, Orijen and now I am trying to transition him onto the Acana grainfree Wild Prairie. Yes he always seems to do better on the Gastro Royal Canin Medi Cal Gastro chicken and rice but this cannot be fed I was told permenantly as the protein is only 8 percent. I am unsure what type of antibiotics they are giving him. He took it in february and now again two weeks ago. It clears up the problem temporarily but it always comes back. He eats well for a couple of days then then he won't eat for a day and then you can tell his stomach is upset, diarrhea and then the process starts over again. I starve him for 24 hours, give him Pepto Bismol and the gastro food and when I can't get the diarrhea to stop off to the vet.
I am giving him a pro and prebiotic the vet sold me called Florentero. I asked about the pumpkin to my vet she said it was more for constipation but I had read it was good for diarrhea as well ?
Zeus has always eaten chicken.
I am giving him a pro and prebiotic the vet sold me called Florentero. I asked about the pumpkin to my vet she said it was more for constipation but I had read it was good for diarrhea as well ?
Zeus has always eaten chicken.
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Although I am a fan of grain-free, in dogs with sensitive digestive systems, I have found that some brands are too rich & DO cause longterm digestive upsets.....What other brands have you tried? Any?
Have you tried just a bland diet of chicken & rice for any length of time? Did he do better on it? Or not?
Any of the answers to these questions can point you in the direction of what he could eat......It's kind of trial and error till you figure it out.....
Nikkie's right...Canned pumpkin will help for diarrhea OR constipation....Your dog would need a teaspoon or two twice a day...Most dogs love the taste....She's also right about a probiotic.....The good ones will be found in the refrigerated section at a health food store.....Your dog would need a third or fourth of the dose listed on the bottle...Either of these will NOT hurt him and it would be worth trying.....
Get back to me about my food questions and maybe we'll be able to figure out a food that he can eat......I'll help you......Karla
P.S. How often does he take the antibiotics? Which one do they give him?