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dislocated shoulder

2 weeks ago, our puppy was run over by a truck.  He suffered several broken ribs, a collapsed lung and a severly broken forearm.  We are not able to take him to a vet.  
In nursing him 24 hours a day, he has pulled through nicely and is wanting to get back to being a puppy.  
My question lies with his forearm.  the bone seems to be heeling well, it's got a nice calcium ball however it's still "crunches" if manipulated.  It sort of hangs from the shoulder when he stands.  I'm wondering if it could be dislocated?  He likes to roll around on his back and the arm flops around.  If the shoulder is dislocated, could this be his way of getting it back in?  

At the shoulder joint it feels different than the other.  There seems to be a space.  Maybe that's just from the break?  

I know it's only been two weeks and he's got some time before he's all better, but I would just like to know what to look for in a dislocated shoulder and if there is anyway to relocate it myself.  As I've said, taking him in is not an option.  

thank you.
Tags: shoulder
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172023_tn?1334675884
I want to be kind, warm, and fuzzy about this.  I'll do my level best, but I don't think I have it in me.

The shoulder may be dislocated, or there could be a frank fracture.  He could also have some nerve damage that is decreasing his ability to control and use the leg.  
Without the input of a veterinarian and some films, you will not know, nor will it ever heal properly.

The crunchy bone...again, without film to show if the bone fragments are in proper alignment, you will not know what's going on in there.  It will probably heal, but if the ends are not in alignment, it will not heal right, and the animal may suffer furthur down the road.

I'm not even going to guess how you diagnosed the collapsed lung, but you may have been correct about that.

Now my less than kind words.

When we adopt a puppy or a dog, and bring it into our lives, we are responsible for its proper care and feeding for as long as the dog is in our care.  Do you know that if your animal is severely ill or injured, and you do not provide proper veterinary care, that you are guilty of animal cruelty and/or neglect?  And you could be prosecuted, fined, and lose the animal?  
I certainly understand about limited finances.  So do most veterinarians.  Most, unless you have burned them before, will bend over backwards to work with you.  There is  a web site called www dot care credit do com that is specifically designed to help people finance overwhelming veterinary bills.  Often you can qualify even with less than perfect credit.  

The one thing that is NOT an option, is to do what you are doing....NOTHING but providing home nursing care (though I give you props for that).   It is the LAW that you have to provide veterinary care for this severely injured puppy.  If you can't do this, how on earth will you ever afford all the expenses that go along with dog ownership?  ONE illness can cost hundreds of dollars.  
If you can't afford to raise a dog, then don't adopt one.  Too late for you and your unfortunate puppy, though.

Left untreated, the puppy's limb will likely wither and atrophy.  He will be in some pain.  Severe arthritis can set in some of the damaged joints.  

If this is the life you feel is best for your puppy, then go on doing what you are doing.  He'll be the one paying the price, not you.  
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390388_tn?1279639813
WOW!  Well first of all, the puppy is not going to be able to fix his shoulder by rolling around.  If you cannot get this poor little puppy help yourself; you should try to find someone that can, and give him to them so that they can.  

The above post is 100% on.   I did not know about the web site listed above by peekawho which would be great.  That way you could get help for him and keep him too; but, only if you can afford his food that is.  It looks like a rottie. They get large.  

I sold my only car for one of my fur baby's to pay for an operation on a dog I found and fell in love with.  You do what you have to if you really love them.   If you don't treat them as you would yourself "or" your own children then you should find someone that can do so.   Just as people get pregnant and can't offord the child and have to put them up for adoption.  It hurts; but, is best for their babys sometimes and so they do so.

You know what the right thing is to do.  This puppy HAS to be seen by a vet.  For all you know it could turn gangrenous.  PLEASE GET HIM HELP!





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82861_tn?1333457511
I hate to have to say it, but you are torturing your puppy.  All the injuries you listed are extremely painful, and the limited knowledge you have regarding physical therapy is only making his pain worse, and likely his injury as well.

Peekawho is absolutely correct.  This puppy needs professional medical care - yesterday.  I have been in your situation with extremely limited funds and a very sick dog.  I have sold assets and gone out on a very weak limb credit-wise to take care of it.  The last emergency a year ago was a 4 year old dog who impaled herself through the rectum on a plant stake.  It took 2 surgeries and $7,000 to save her, but she's doing great a year later.  Her injuries, although different from your pup's, were every bit as severe and life-threatening.  There was never a moment's doubt in my mind that she needed major medical care.  There isn't one doubt in my mind that your pup needs the same treatment.  It's nothing short of a miracle that he's survived this long.

Let's get the facts straight.  (1) Your pup is suffering  (2) He MUST have medical care.  End of story.  That leaves you with three choices.  (1) Continue as your are and allow him to suffer, likely get an infection from that compound leg fracture and die a slow painful death.  (2) Start calling vets in your area now and see if a payment plan can be arranged and get him the treatment he needs.  (3) Surrender him to the Humane Society, SPCA or other group or individual who can provide the care or put him down humanely, whichever is warranted.  

Whether this pup lives or dies, please think long and hard before getting another one.  If you can't afford medical care for a dog, you can't have a dog.  Period.  If you can't keep him safely restrained and out of harm's way, you can't have a dog.  I can't think of anything more to say, so I'm going to hug the snot out my curs right now.
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234713_tn?1283530259
Could you please take the advice of everyone here who has posted and please please take the puppy to the vet.  If you won't take the puppy to the vet due to cost then at least check out the web site for care credit.  Care Credit is a interest free credit care only for medical or veterinary bills.   Many humane societies offer low cost pet care.  Please call some in your area and get estimates.
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Avatar_f_tn
OH MY GOD !    You are unable to take your puppy to the vet?  People like you should not be allowed to have pets !!!
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Avatar_m_tn
thank you all so much for your input. I thought this was a different kind of forum.  I thought that I might find the answers I need from a VET, not just random people who love their pets as much as I do.  

The injuries he sustained, i.e. broken ribs, collapsed lung and broken humerus bone and pain management, would have all been treated by a professional the same way I treated him.  So he would have suffered the same fate if I would have taken him in on those issues.   I am certain that if he were put in a lonely cage at a strange place for kennel care, he would not have felt the love and need for him from the rest of his pack and would not have pulled through.  

I merely came on here to see if anyone had any experience in identifying and relocating a shoulder.  I guess no one has?  

Please don't jump to conclusions about a small blurp you read in a forum asking for advice on an issue.  You don't know the full spectrum of the situation and I'm not  going to go into it, for I don't need to defend myself on that.  

I assure you that my pup is healing well, and is not suffering any more than anyone else would while recovering from being hit by a moving vehicle.  He is healing well, actually, better than expected.  I must be doing something right.

  

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82861_tn?1333457511
If you want a vet's opinion, then take your pup to see one up close and personal.  By the way, you DID get a vet's opinion here.  Dr. Cheng responded to you two posts above.
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172023_tn?1334675884
No, you most assuredly are not.  You have a puppy with a dead forelimb that "flops around".  You are not confident that the fracture is healing optimally.  You are in the wrong here, as much as you would like to convince everyone that you are providing "the same care" as a vet.

Yes, the same care minus the education, the diagnostics, the surgical care that no doubt would have been offered, the ability to prescribe pain medication for these horrific injuries while they heal, and the wisdom to know what you don't know.

You have a legal and moral responsibility to provide proper care to this puppy in order that it might have a chance at a normal life with 4 strong limbs.  
You choose to turn a blind eye to the needless suffering your puppy has undergone, and may undergo in the future.   Sure, you provided good nursing care.  But that is NOT enough in this instance, and you've sadly failed in your responsibility to your animal, who is helpless to help himself.

Don't worry.  Karma has a way of kicking you in the teeth for the things you've done in your life.  And karma's a b*tch, my man.  
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93532_tn?1349374050
Absolutely astounding. If you cannot afford to take your animal to a vet and have it cared for, you simply should not own a pet. Your home care, like Peek said, was without the benefit of an educated and caring hand, the medications needed to prevent infection and pain, and the ability to possibly stabilize the "floppy" limb.

***walks away shaking head***
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93532_tn?1349374050
And as far as the "what kind of forum is this" question. This is a forum with regular members who know their limitations. A group of people who understand that a sick or injured animal, much like a child, needs to be evaluated and cared for my a professional. If my child was hit by a car, I would most certainly take him in to the "cold lonely" hospital if it meant he would get his proper care.
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93532_tn?1349374050
Sorry, distracted by babies of the 4 legged and 2 legged variety.

Instructions for fixing dislocated shoulder:

Dust off pet carrier

Put pet in carrier

Put carrier in car

Drive to vet

Go inside and do what you promised to be responsible for when you took on the care of this dog.
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203342_tn?1328740807
Unbelievable! You DID get an answer from a vet!! Dr. Cheng is a vet on here and told you to take that puppy to a vet! Or did you miss that?
How callous can you be? How would you like to be hit by a truck and sustain the injuries this puppy did? Broken ribs are very painful. Every time you take a breath, you feel pain. A dislocated shoulder would be painful too. Do you think animals don't feel pain? The least you could have done is provide pain medication. I'd like to see you go through what that puppy went through and I guarentee you would be in agony and wouldn't for a minute wait on getting the care and medication you would need. Just because an animal can't "tell" you that they are in pain, doesn't mean they're not. And now that you've waited so long you probably are going to have a disabled dog when he could have been restored back to normal. How do you know that he didn't need surgery to correct this leg? You are not a vet! I don't care how much you get on the Internet, you can't possibly know the best thing to do in this case. You did not take all those years of medical school these vets did to properly diagnose your dog.

I agree with the others. You should have done all that you could do to get the best care for that puppy. Somehow you find the money. I just had to take my daughter's kitten to the emergency vet one night last week because we thought she had swallowed something. We spent over $400 on her that night. Fortunately, she didn't need surgery. Do you think I had the money? No, we had to put it on the credit card and we're trying hard to get that card paid off because we already have a lot of debt. But I will never let an animal I own be in pain, ever. I think it would even be more humane to put them to sleep rather than let them suffer.
When you take on the responsiblity to own an animal, you also have the responsibility to take proper care of it, and that includes taking it to the vet if needed!

Please go back and read at least Dr. Cheng's response to you if not anybody else's, since she IS a vet. And please take her advice and take that poor dog to the vet before he loses his leg.

I'm with Peekawho. These are God's creatures and we're to take care of them. If He notices the little sparrow that falls out of the sky, then He notices the little puppy in pain. I too believe you will be help responsible some day. I will pray for your puppy and that God will convict your heart to do the right thing and take him to the vet. There's always hope.
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Avatar_f_tn
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You made my stomach turn. I hope the Police come knocking at your door and arrest you after reading this -  maybe the police are tracing who you are at this very moment:)  You cannot afford the vet bills, then you shouldn't have the dog.

Call an animal rescue if nothing else and tell them to take the dog. They will take it to a vet and then find a home for it.
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Avatar_n_tn
The problem as I see it is that vets have become very expensive and un-justifiably so, milking insurance companies for all they can get and failing to help animals that are in distress whose owners are unable to pay $7,000 dollars mentioned above.

How on earth did we end up being milked dry by people who should care more about animals than how much the owners of the animals can afford?

The dog while injured is being cared for and even left to its own devices would fare much better than an injured wild animal.

Having said this, I agree that in this instance this animal should have an examination to determine if the shoulder is dislocated or if there is nerve damage by a vet as suggested by everyone here..

I have had many run-ins with the vet about being ripped off and have been given substantial reductions when I have challenged them to justify their extortionately high invoices.

Having changed our vets a few times now we are quite happy with ours and have a good relationship with them. They also provide a reasonably priced excellent service.

As for threatening to call the police to someone who has nursed their dog back to health and is showing concern about sorting the shoulder problem out now that the swelling has gone down, which incidentally is the correct thing to do, the owner gets chastised for sharing and asking questions.

If you do go to the vets, explain your financial circumstances to him/her and tell them your dog is not insured. This way you will get a more realistic costing for the treatment.

I found this thread because we have a puppy with a suspected dislocated shoulder age 2 weeks, noticed it in the night and going to the vets in a couple of hours to find out whether its an injury from the ***** laying on it or whether it may be an abscess.
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Avatar_n_tn
I'm not a mean person, but reading your comment left me with a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach and made me cry!  How could you!!!????!!!  How about I get myself a truck and run you over so you can sustain the same sort of injuries your puppy did.   Then I'll let you roll around on the floor while I watch over you and take such good care of you so you don't have to lie in a hospital and be lonely or see a doctor to cure you and you'll live happily ever after.  There's a place for people like you:  JAIL!!!
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82861_tn?1333457511
Veterinary medicine has advanced to the same competent level as human medicine, and unfortunately, those advances include insurance coverage for pets.  Human medical care skyrocketed when insurance became an expected benefit of employment and the government got involved with Medicare and Medicaid.  When anyone aside from the consumer pays for a transaction from the provider, the costs go up.  End of story.  If you want to blame someone for the high cost of veterinary care, look no further than pet insurance.  You, as a smart consumer, shopped around until you found a reasonably-priced provider.  I did the same thing and I am very happy with the veterinary practice I have used since 1990.

I was also the person who spent $7,000 to save my dog's life, and it was worth every penny.  The care she received was extremely specialized and no regular clinic-based vet could have taken her case.  In many respects, my dog received far better care than I've received myself during many years of chronic illness.  That level of ICU veterinary care is not cheap, and certainly many people must opt for euthanasia rather than treatment.  Again, my dog's injuries were extremely severe and she wasn't even expected to survive, but she did thanks to the specialists with many years of expensive education who treated her.  Spending that kind of money on a pet is not in everyone's budget and I don't expect everyone to be able to do what I did. I DO, however, expect any pet owner to consider euthanasia or surrendering of the animal to a shelter as an option to terrible suffering on the part of the animal.
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Avatar_n_tn
omg...first of all i have a husband,2 children and our dog c.c.....now to myself and my family our dog c.c is one of the family.....no guestions ask...she is our 3rd child....any little problem with her and i go to the vet automatically  the same as i do for my children any prob...and its off to the doc´s....i do everything in my power to protect my family c.c included....so i cant beleive you would not take your little guy to the vet....i dont know what to say to you.....lol i even feed all the stray dog around my house and give them water....i dont buy them food i just share my c.c´s food with them.....every living thing has the right to be looked after,treated right and loved...i send kisses to your poor little guy and hope he gets what he needs to have a long healthy and happy life...
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675347_tn?1365464245
Please do not be bitter towards the people who answered this thread. They are people who genuinely are trying their level best to help in many situations where those who are worried about their dogs either need sound advice, or on the odd occasion a firecracker up the *** when occasionally, as we find here, there are those who plead poverty, or ignorance while their dog is suffering. This situation recurs at times, and the members here find those things very upsetting, as they are all ardent dog-(and animal) lovers, with very big hearts!

That no means applies to all who reach out for help here. Owning a dog is a steep learning-curve. Some people are just confused. Or are new owners and are unsure what to do. Or the illness/injury baffles them, and they have the humility to take the advice they have sought.

Apart from big-hearted, (albeit sometimes very emotional) dog-lovers, there are also those with a good deal of veterinary experience here. And for Aleda Cheng (the Vet) to cross over from her Expert Forum page to this one, says to me, she heard a pretty powerful alert call to do that!

Also, please do remember that while your attitude to your dogs is perfectly fine, your dogs have their place in your family, (and they are well cared for I am sure) though your children come first for you, and that is quite natural....for some people here their dog is the only loved "family member" they may have, or is the equivalent of a "Child" to those who longed for children, and yet could not have them, or may be their last refuge after the death of a spouse.... (however irrational and absurd you may think that is)

Please do not be so bitter to a member here who paid 7,000 dollars to have her dog fixed up after the most horrific injuries. She is a good woman, I happen to know that. She is not 'smarmy' and did the thing I would also do (if I owned 7,000 dollars!) to save the life, and eliminate the suffering of my true friend and family member. She had a choice between euthanasia and paying these dollars out, and she chose the latter. That may not have been everyone's answer....and either solution would have been the right one at this point. But her choice was her prerogative.

Take it easy with us! We get very emotional at times over problems we hear about when people just will not take their dog to the vet even though it is obvious that dog needs emergency care! I guess some people have just heard that once too often.
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Avatar_n_tn
Hi Everyone, I took into my care a 6 week old puppy, that was nearly dead due to hook worms...I immediately brought him to a local vet that was on call that night...he took him in for three days, gave him a blood transfusion, antibiotics, so on and now he is mentally a okay!..But, when I picked him up from the vet his back right leg was stiff and his two left legs were not functioning properly. The vet said that I should put him down because it was due to infection in his spine that spread to his ligaments...I still decided to work with him because something didnt seem right. I brought him home..kept him on the antibiotics and did exercises with him everyday and he started to improve...his back right legs are doing wonderful but his front left leg seems like the shoulder is dislocated...he can move his toes and leg but it is obviously out of place so i brought him to a second vet for another oppinion and he tells me that he had infection start up in his umbilical cord shortly after birth and that he has calcification in his shoulder from this??? And to put him to sleep. I am so tired of hearing this because this puppy is smart and strong and he wants to live...I really honestly do not agree( though i do not have a degree) with either of these vets...I am taking him to a THIRD vet tomorrow and get them to x-ray him and pray that I get some answers...Anyway...Just wondering what all of you guys think? You seem like you are very straight forward and you also seem very informed! Id appreciate any feedback on what may be the cause of this..THANK YOU.
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675347_tn?1365464245
I wish I could be of real help, but I don't have a clue about this. But I admire the way you are fighting for your dog. If you are sure that little dog's life is worth trying to save, and he isn't in pain, or his life a misery, then "where there's life there's hope"

You could try posting your question on the "Ask a Vet" Expert forum. There is a small charge for this service, but you will get the opinions of qualified vets there.
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1176850_tn?1263759447
I'm a cop and I work animal cruelty cases.  Normally, when I investigate an animal cruelty case, I'm looking to see if the owner is doing whatever they are capable of doing in order to provide care for their animal.  Likewise, when I investigate an alleged child abuser, I am looking to see that the parent or guardian is providing to the best of their ability.  What some ignorant people believe is that everyone has the same opportunities and the same resources and, therefor, if they don't spend a mini-fortune on every circumstance, they just don't measure up.  If you believe this then you are ignorant.  If you CHOOSE to believe this, then you are being stupid, by definition.

Animals deserve the best care we can provide.  My financial situation may allow for some things that others can't afford and yours may provide for some things that I can't afford.  I have 4 kids and one dog.  I can afford that MOST of the time.  But there are circumstances that come up that I will not be able to afford right away.  That's the reality of living on a cop's salary.  It doesn't make me insane, idiotic, or non-compassionate. It means that S*** happens that we cannot always be prepared for, try as we must.

Work on payments with your vet or get a loan if possible.  If not, at least TRY.
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Avatar_f_tn
You can afford a computer and spend time on it, but can't afford a vet visit or have the time to take the dog?  Whats wrong with this picture?
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Avatar_f_tn
Wow, this forum is really judgmental.  My puppy is limping and it looks like it is coming from the shoulder.   I AM TAKING HIM TO THE VET IN THE MORNING so don't flip out at me please.  I called to try to fit him in today and they said I had to wait.  

Now I know I am going to loose sleep over worrying about him all night long and so I search online to try to figure out just how awful tomorrow's news could be regarding puppy shoulder injuries, but all I found here was visceral emotional outlashes and a lot of judgement passed about someone who we don't know anything about because this is a message board, and not a window into HBN's experiences.  Thanks for the utter lack of information, everyone.  I will be avoiding this forum in the future and am disappointed it even came up in my search for "puppy, shoulder, limping."  do you all always lash out this much with so little information about the other person's situation at hand?  

I suggest some reading material on a concept called the "ladder of inference" which is basically where you jump to conclusions based on very little information to feel better about yourself (http://www.solonline.org/pra/tool/ladder.html).  

As a psychologist and as a pet owner, I am completely disappointed in the ration of information to useless venting present here.  Next time I'll just ask judge judy what she thinks instead of thinking, hmm maybe the internet can tell me what do I do with a limping puppy between now and the time i go to the vet at 8 am?  I hope you all are very proud of yourselves.  
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675347_tn?1365464245
Maybe if you're a psychologist you should have taken time to read all the answers.... This particular post was quite an emotional one, as you noticed.
In your case you came to do a little research and find any clues or help to tide you over till the vet visit in the morning. In the case of the others here, it was more about....concern about the possibility of a puppy being allowed to continue in an impossible and painful situation when it was obvious it needed the vet ASAP.

People here get emotional about things like that I think. Sometimes it can flare a bit, and people are tempted to say what they really feel rather than keep it cool, and say what they think they ought.... Also you have a point....we should not judge others, we should offer practical help as much as we're able.
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Avatar_f_tn
The difference is, you plan on taking your dog to the vet, not sitting back and waiting to see what happens at home, and letting the puppy suffer in the meantime.    
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Avatar_f_tn
there are places you can go and get free medical help from vets if money is the issue, don't just sit back, you have to take the poor little guy now!
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Avatar_m_tn
My dog started limping suddenly. Then his front leg began to swell. I called our vet who is a PRACTICAL man. He prescribed rimadyl and rest for 10 days. After 10 days the dog was still limping. Call back vet this time it's rimadyl and an antibiotic. 10 days later, dog is still limping. Swelling is gone. Taking him in tomorrow per our vet. Sounds like you love your pet. I noticed they have a "pay" site on here where" you can get better advice". Ppl love to make others feel like crap. Makes them feel better I guess. Good luck with your puppy.
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Avatar_m_tn
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ZFKldQGkI&feature=relmfu

Found a series of how to videos by vets on YouTube .
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462827_tn?1333172552
This thread is over 5 years old & the puppy would be grown.....I doubt hbm is around any longer.....Unfortunately, they never came back with any updates which is usually the case.....So, that leaves us (That like to make others feel like crap) always wondering what happened!   Karla
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