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herniated disk/surgery recovery problems

My 9 yo beagle was suffering from a herniated disc.  This happened again one summer ago and he recovered from rest and steroids.  It happened again 4 months ago and after our best efforts to get him better with rest again failed, we had him go through surgery to clean up the bad tissue around the vertabrae in question.

Visual signs of his recovery were supposed to happen pretty quickly.  Unfortunately, before the first week was through, he actually seemed to be taking steps *backwards*. He stopped even trying to go to the bathroom outside, didn't move at all during the days, began to simply urinate and defecate all over himself in prone position.  And then the obvious signs of pain returned (shaking and yelping).

He's perfectly alert when he's awake. Enthusiastic about water and food consumption.  Likes being petted and talked to.  But he seems to have no more physical ability move on his own or support his own weight (his back legs seem completely useless though the disc in question was in his neck area).  He is willing to move/turn his own head perfectly fine when, say, reaching for a treat, but the slightest jostle and he'll yelp. It's almost as if the anticipation of pain/frustration of pain is worse than the actual pain itself.  It doesn't help that despite our best efforts, my wife and I CANNOT pinpoint his pain.

We took him back to the vet for medical boarding, hoping they could maybe give him better care/therapy, but he's continued to backslide.  The options we've been present seem to be re-imaging with likely a second surgery (we cannot afford this by any measure...), continuing on the path we're on with crate rest and drugs and HOPING it works (it's become quite emotionally draining seeing him in this state and I'm not sure we nor he can do this for the SIX to EIGHT months that could be the UPPER END of recovery time), or euthanizing (which of course want very much to avoid).

So, we're searching for alternative medicine or some experience outside the box on what we can try to help him.

Thank you.
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462827 tn?1333168952
Continued:

Oliver's medications made him worse, without a doubt, but I felt he was in pain without them...He spent most of this first 6 mos. (After surgery) off & on in a crate, which I hated, also.....I decided I would find a Holistic Vet for my buddy & see if they could help me out...I found one 60 miles away from where I live....

Well, that was the best decision I  ever made!!!!
The first thing this new Vet did (After a lengthy evaluation about his medical issues, his home life, his aggression, his food, his friends, the house, I mean everything & 90 minutes to be exact), was tell me to get him OUT of the cage.....He said his muscles were atrophying and that there was no way they could support his back! We began short walks that day.....That led up to longer walks, etc...

Oliver received Acupuncture the same visit & Chinese herbs for pain, plus I was told to wean him off the prescription medications........We continued with Acup. twice a week, then once a week & now it's about every 4-6 weeks as needed.....He also takes the Chinese Herbs as needed.....

This guy (Oliver) got to feeling so good, that he tore an ACL 2 years later & had to have his knee replaced!!! That surgery was almost two years ago & he just turned 10.....

SO, that's where we are now.....This has been quite an adventure and I have never regretted any of these decisions.....I have learned more form this Vet than all others combined....I Love him, plus he LOVES my "Oliver"!!
Why?, I don't know!  ;)

To find a Holistic Vet in your area, go to the AHVMA webpage ....There is a search by state box.....You will get a list of practitioners in your area....Make sure you select one that is CERTIFIED in Acupuncture & CHINESE herbs...Each Vet will have a list by their name of what they're certified in.....

My first visit was $90, but all the others have been $45-$50......We also stopped vaccinating him & he was put on a fresh food diet for it's healing properties.......ALL of my dogs (5 at the moment) have been changed to this Vet & I couldn't be happier!!!! Let me know if you have any other questions....Karla
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
The medication issues sound very promising.  We got some very positive responses from talking to him "overexcitedly/over-nicely" whenever we did any moving today.  Only yelped once, so maybe the yelping is more from terror than pain.  Got rid of the Fent patch.  He did some shifting around on his own so far this evening.

Hallucinations would go a long way towards explaining SOME of his reactions.

We'll keep hoping for the best...
Helpful - 0
462827 tn?1333168952
Back:  My dog was paralyzed & had the surgery....He had none of the water therapy or rehab after his surgery.....First, I had no access to a facility, plus my dog is extremely aggressive, so no one would want to work with him anyway....He didn't even receive the PT while in the hospital...

Matter of fact, I sent a spy into the hospital & was told that my Oliver was in a cage, in a room all by himself that had Yellow Caution Tape all over it...WHAT????

Something else:  He was released with NO pain management (This is unheard of) & also attacked ME as we were leaving the hospital......Everyone there was in Horror!! I just shook my head & we left....

I was at My regular Vet's office by morning....Got some pain management going for this little Angel!!  ;)

For 6 months we battled pain and malfunctions....I know the stress! Trust me!!! I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown watching him suffer!!! I then changed my way of thinking.....

Decided that this wasn't working & if this was all that traditional medical care had to offer me, then I must find something else...Everyone thought I should put this guy to sleep, too!

I'll be back...I'm sorry, but there seems to be more Rescue problems than normal, today...I'll be back, Karla

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462827 tn?1333168952
First, your guy has NOT had a chance to recover from his surgery......3 weeks is nothing for this kind of a surgery! I wouldn't even consider putting him to sleep! You also state that he got worse after a few days at home....That would have been about the same time the medications built up to a toxicity level!
Although what you describe is possible from the surgery, I have to suspect that a good part of it is from the side effects of the medications!!!!
I have heard of using these meds. in combination of 2s or 3s, but I have never heard of this combo of ALL 4.....

One of my dogs had a terrible reaction to the Fentanyl Patch!!! He shook, couldn't move, hallucinated & SCREAMED when touched or moved! I didn't even have to pick him up! Yes, I thought he was dying!!! Didn't figure out what was going on until the second patch.....

The pred. & Tramadol combo is normal, although Trmadol can create disturbing side effects such as stupor & being lethargic...

The gabapentin you'll have to read about, I've never used this one...I do know that it cannot be stopped abruptly, must be weaned off...Here's a link:

http://www.dogarthritisblog.info/treatment-of-dog-arthritis/prescription-painkillers-for-dog-arthritis-user-guides-part-2-%E2%80%93-gabapentin/

I'll be back w/ more information for you...Must run for a little while....Karla

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Avatar universal
He is currently on all that yes.  He was on 4 medications when he came home the first time that each ran out at different days.  And now he's back on the tramadol, pred, and gabapentin.  And yes, Fentanyl patch.  This is the 3rd one he's been on (in my presence) and I guess it's due to come off tomorrow.
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462827 tn?1333168952
WOW, that's a lot of medication...Is he taking ALL OF THIS at once? Was he started with all of this after his release or have they continued to add more meds. over a period of time, because of his pain? (Other than the liquid one; I know what that one is).
Is he still on the Pain patch? If not, when was it taken off? Was it Fentanyl? If you don't know, it should be on your receipt....

let me know & please DO NOT give up on him just yet!   Karla



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974371 tn?1424653129
My friend is going to check further but this is what she sent so far.

I know there is a good rehab vet at Pewaukee Veterinary Clinic but I don't know if they do surgeries.

Is that any closer?
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Avatar universal
That's closer to milwaukee where we used to live than it is to us now, but I suppose it won't hurt to see what they have to say.
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974371 tn?1424653129
Oh, sounds horrible, poor thing.  You may not have options but I am looking.
Is this near you?
http://www.prairieanimalhospitalsc.com/veterinaryClinic/waukeshaDogAcupuncture

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Avatar universal
They offhandedly mentioned aquatic and PT at the time of the surgery.  I'm not sure we have the money (or even a facility in reasonable distance) to have professionals do that.  Not sure if just a bathtub is good enough for Aqua therapy.  We were doing PT (leg joint extensions and such) before it got to the point where even that started causing him anxiety and (potentially) pain.

Today he is at a point where his neck area seems to be in such pain that I couldn't even turn him on his belly so he could drink.  He yelped for like a minute straight before I gave up and let him lay back down on his side.

I just don't know what to do.  It's looking bad for us...
Helpful - 0
974371 tn?1424653129
Wow, poor dog and poor you!  At least it was a surgery center.
Let me do some checking with a friend who "may" know another specialist around there.
Other than that, did they happen to suggest aquatic therapy or PT or acupuncture?
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Avatar universal
Right now I'm in Winneconne, right outside Oshkosh.  But we only just moved here late last year.  We still frequently visit the Milwaukee area where we moved from.
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Avatar universal
The surgery was three weeks ago.  He's been on a mix of prednisone, tramadol, gabapentin, and a 4th liquid medicine I can't recall atm (but he's no longer on) as well as at 2 pain patches at home (not sure how many while boarded).

This is a specialty surgical center and not his normal vet, but she referred us to them.

Worse than before surgery? When we finally took him in FOR surgery he was very very bad.  He's either back to that point or maybe a little less mobile.  If he's laying on his belly with his paws beneath him, he can use his front paws a bit to crawl, but refuses to use his back legs.  And now, if we don't give him a little support, he almost always rolls onto his right seemingly beyond his control (like his front right paw won't support his weight even at a resting position).  He can move his neck/head fine when he has reason to.

I won't claim to know the vet's heart.  The staff have been nice and they have people on hand 24/7 for contact without additional cost, but I can't deny I'm growing a bit jaded having dropped 5k already on a surgery that may not have worked (went through a similar experience 10 years ago or so).

The 6-8 months recovery was simply a number they and other sources have told me could be involved in an "unusually long recovery".  They even mentioned it before the surgery but stressed its very rare.  Original estimate for recovery was 6-8 weeks.  Now they basically don't know.  The doctor who has been handling says he's only seen about 5 cases that had this operation and have had a difficult recovery, but that Archie's seems different and inexplicable in its regression.

Not sure what else might help you.
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974371 tn?1424653129
Yes, welcome and sorry to read this story.
Looked at your profile and you are in Wisconsin?  Mind telling me where or near where you are?  I have a couple of "dog" friends there.
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462827 tn?1333168952
Welcome  to the forum......I'm Sorry to read all of this....When was the surgery? Did a certified specialist do the surgery?
Your guy seems to sure be in a lot of pain! What are you giving him to control it?
Are you saying that he's worse now than before the surgery? Was he paralyzed? Bless his heart!

Does your Vet seem interested in your dog's well being at all other than suggesting another surgery?
What are you referring to that would take 6-8 Months of recovery?

Please let me know......Karla
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