please help, question about the neighbor's dog

[Happy2girls]

I hope someone can help me out here.  I never see the neighbors so I haven't been able to talk with them.  The problem is they have 2 dogs and an invisible/electric fence.  They have an older Golden Retriever who in the past has gotten out and through the fence (she wasn't wearing her collar).  She is an incredibly sweet, good natured dog.  They also have a male rottweiler (sorry if I spelled that wrong) who is only about a year old but still quite big.  Our driveways are next to each other so everytime I leave the house the dogs are out.  And every single time the rottie gives me a long low growl and then charges right up to the edge of the property barking aggressively.  He doesn't have much of a tail but I can tell he isn't wagging.  He does this to every member of my family including my young daughters.  My question is how can I tell if a dog is dangerous?  And how good are electric fences at keeping an angry animal contained?  I am petrified to let my daughters go outside.  What compounds the problem is that although I see the dogs all of the time, I never see the owners.  The rottie is only a year old but quite aggressive.  Any help and advice would be appreciated.  Thanks.        

[juanita weeble]

Get in touch with your Animal control officer and voice your concerns.  They should know about invisible fences and may decide to contact the dogs' owner.  Your girls should be able to play outside without fear, and I know from personl experience that rotweiller's can't be messed around with.  My friend had one that I had petted and played with, until one day I went to pick up my son at her house.  The dog and the 2 boys were in the yard.  I went to the fence to say hello, and the dog lunged at me and just missed my face.  This from an animal who always laid his head in my lap so I would scratch his ears.  Get help!

[Happy2girls]

Thanks for your reply.  I think I will call Animal control.  I don't want to make something out of nothing and I certainly don't want to cause trouble with the neighbors. But there is a school bus stop across from this house and my understanding is that a determined dog won't be detered by the shock it will receive by "crossing the line".  I have a very good friend who has owned Rotties and even she said that the older they get the more unpredictable they become.  The best solution would be for my neighbors to put up a conventional fence, I think.      

[Lezieh]

Please just talk to the neighbors first!  I have had two Rottweilers and they were wonderful.  I never had any problems.  They were the most gentle giants.  
You are right that a determined dog will go right through the fence, especially if they find a weak spot.  I had a Pit Bull who went right through the fence, and there wasn't a weak spot.  He was a sweetheart too.  My goodness I miss them all.
With that aside just talk to your neighbors, if you call animal control, you may end up having a harsh relationship with them.  You all have to live next to each other and that could cause an uncomfortable relationship.  Talk first then if that doesn't work go to animal control.  Your neighbors may not know what is going on.
If your dogs could meet and sniff and all that dog stuff in a neutral territory, that could solve a lot of problems without getting animal control involved.  See if your kids can meet the Rottie.  That way they will feel secure on the walk.
A dog will feed off your energy, so if you are nervous they know that they are superior and they are "winning."  They will continue this.  You must stand your ground and not feel nervous.  Your dog will also feed off of your energy, so if you are scared, your dog will become nervous because the person whom is supposed to be their leader is nervous.  Now both you and your dog's energy is feeding this Rottweiler.  Your neighbor's Rottweiler may or may not be dangerous, I can't tell without seeing his reaction.  However, you need to look at how he is barking, is there a wine that goes with it?  If so, he probably wants to play.  If not, does he back up or bark to the side, then he is insecure and is just kind of doing his job as an alert.  If he is growling and barking and "attacking" the invisible fence, then he might be a danger.  Read his body language, you can tell if he is a threat.  Does his body flinch when he barks?  That is another sign of insecurity.
Please as an old Rottweiler owner, talk first.  They are so many people out there who just think they are a bad breed just like the Pit Bull.  If my dogs were still alive I could change your mind and everyone else’s mind about these beautiful breeds.  Please just talk to the neighbors.
If you have anymore questions I will be glad to help.

[Happy2girls]

Thank you for your post.  It sounds like you were a very attentive and responsible owner.  I had no intention of filing a report I just wanted to speak with Animal Control to better understand what behavior constitutes aggression in a dog.  I wouldn't be concerned if it was a small breed of dog but this animal will grow to be 120 lbs (in my friends case 170lbs).  I do not blame the animal, it is the owners job to train and correct their animal and they are never around so I can't talk to them.  When they moved in she said she would leave me her numbers but that has yet to happen.  I have gone out of my way to be a good neighbor, I have returned their other dog when it got loose, I never said a word when it's done it's business in my yard (I had to clean up 8 piles once) or when it's torn through my trash.  My children used to pet and talk to the rottie when he was a puppy but now it growls at them so of course they are afraid.  I won't take them over to the rottie without the owner present.  My position is simply that as a responsible owner and neighbor it is your responsibility to properly train and socialize your animal (that's hard to do when you're never around) or at the very least put up a real fence.  I am in a position now of protecting my girls, and that is why I am trying to find out as much as I can about Rottie's behavior, I don't feel comfortable giving the animal the benefit of the doubt.    

[DinaGrimes]

I wanted to give you my own personal experience.  My neighbor had a large black lab.  The dog was very friendly but the neighbor was not very responsible.  The dog was constantly running loose in the neighborhood.  One day I came out of my house and was standing on my front lawn when the neighbors dog came running at me (he was very excited and wanted to say hi).  When he came at me, I turned sideways because I could tell that he was going to run right into me.  Well, he ran into me and twisted around my leg crushing the bone that the knee rests on.  I was in the hospital for 5 days and had to have surgery to reconstruct the bone.  I was in therapy for almost a year.  And to this day (3 years later), I still do not walk correctly and have constent back problems due to the walk being off.  

Just because the dog is friendly does not mean you and your family are safe.  Expecially when it is such a big dog.  You have to make sure your neighbor takes responsiblity for their dogs.  I thank god that it was me on the front lawn and not my young daughter.  At her height, it could have been her back that got broke or crushed.  If people cannot be responsible for their pets, they shouldn't have them.  I am not speaking as someone who does not like animals.  I love them and I have them, but I'm a responsible owner.  My pets are not an inconvience to others.  I watch over them and clean up after them.

Please do not let this matter go.  Talk to your neighbor and if you don't get anywhere with them, move on to Animal Control.

Good luck!

[mom@homenow]

Based on the behavior you describe, that dog needs training, because it is becoming an aggressive watchdog. You asked how to know if a dog is aggressive? The growling and charging behavior you describe is a protective warning that you are too close to it's property. A growl is the last form of aggression, the last warning, before a bite.
I'm a big fan of Rotties, who can be giant teddy bears, but like any powerful dog they need lots of training. You are correct in being concerned that it may not be contained always by that underground fence system, Rotties are strong and can withstand pain- so if it really wants to leave that yard, a little shock isn't going to stop it. It's tolerance to pain will increase as it gets older.
I've had a similar experience the last several years with a chow mix across the street. She barks and growls at any people or animals who walk by their yard, and I have to hear her every time I go to my mailbox.  It drove a wedge between my neighbors and us, because I asked them nicely for 2 years to keep their dog in more of the time and train it, to no avail. I didn't want to cause trouble by getting Animal Control involved. My mistake.
Well, last summer,  the chow "took the shock" and came over and attacked my Lab who was in my front yard with me, on a leash.  That was a few weeks after my husband  watched her "take the shock" to attack a sheepdog on a leash, as well.  (The chow's owner happened to hear it and ran over to pull her off the other dog) The sheepdog didn't end up bitten, but my dog was, because her owner wasn't there this time and I couldn't pull her off my dog in time. Since then Animal Control has gotten involved and the chow acts as if she's had some training, and to my knowledge hasn't left the yard again. But I no longer feel safe having my dogs in my own front yard, and my son won't ride his bike in front of our house... because she still barks at us constantly if we're out there, and the noise is intolerable. By the way, she is only a 40 lb dog. Size really doesn't matter.
Yes, talk to your neighbors first, but if promises are made but not kept then be sure to talk to Animal Control. You have a right to feel safe in your own yard.

[Happy2girls]

Thanks for all of your input.  This is a terrible situation, I really hate those electric fences.  The last 2 days the dog has been quiet when I go out so maybe things will get better.  I've been thinking of getting a little Yorkie for my girls but I will get a high fence if we do that.

Mom@home--I am surprised that your neighbors were able to keep thier dog after it broke free and attacked your dog.  Did they at least get a regular fence?      

[mom@homenow]

No, they didn't get a regular fence. Still the underground, which they installed improperly right up to the street and their property line all the way around instead of leaving a buffer zone! I don't know why they didn't have to get a regular fence, except that we live in a rural county and I don't know that animal control has the funding to follow up long term with all their cases. Plus just one incident was reported & I think there has to be more than one for her to be deemed "dangerous." I now play with my two dogs in the backyard where their dog can't see us because there's a bit of a hill. Luckily, the people seem to have done some training as far as human aggression because she still barks at us but no longer growls and her body language is such that I no longer fear for my son or myself as long as we stay out of her yard.
You aren't alone in hating those underground fences. They don't protect the dog in it any more than they protect animals & people outside of it. Many dogs have been terrorized in their yard because there is no barrier to keep stray dogs (and bored adolescents) out.  They are wonderful containment systems for a dog being played with that you want to let run off the leash, but not really appropriate for unattended dogs. That's my feeling anyway, and is shared by several rescues I know of who won't adopt out to someone who will leave the dog unattended behind an underground fence system.
I hope it all works out for you.

[Lezieh]

I completely understand the position you are in and you are right that you need to protect your kids.  You should never give a dog the benefit of the doubt but you should stand your ground and claim your territory.  After my Pit Bull got through the underground fence I just kept him inside.  I tried pricing fences but they were so expensive, several thousand, I am sure that is why most people get the underground fence.  Owners need to be vigilant and "on the ball" when it comes to their pets and unfortunately there are many whom aren't.  Small dogs can be just as vicious and large dogs; they think they are bigger than they are and end up being treated like humans because they are so "cute."  The get picked up all the time and turn into possessive animals.  Some humans just don't know any better.  If you do decide to get a Yorkie, see if your neighbor will let the Rottie and your Yorkie meet somewhere neutral so they can get acquainted, try to bring your other dog too.  Oh and just a little thing from personal experience, granted I don't know your kids' ages, but don't get a dog for them unless you are willing to end up doing everything for the dog.  (if your kids are young that is)  I always remind myself, twice the poop, vet bills, food, meds, walks etc. that I will have to take care of if I get another dog for the kids, because eventually the novelty wears off.

[dorothy1]

Quite frankly I am appalled at your situation. You have absolutely no need to compromise anything. When these dogs are outside that yard it is your "responsibility" to call animal control. I don't care how nice the dogs are you should not be baby sitting for irresponsible pet owners. You and your children come first and not even a conversation with the neighbors will help. If it's not the Dogs it will be something else. Animal control is discreet and will not divulge where the complaint came from. I will not want to be your conscience should You, your child or another child be harmed by a Rotty or any other breed on the loose. These dogs need to be behind a High solid fence to protect the neighbors and also the owners from a litigation attorney.

[Happy2girls]

The dogs have not gotten loose in a while and the Rottie has never gotten loose.  If he did I would be the first person on the phone.  My neighbors are doing nothing illegal, they are entitled to have an invisible fence.  I guess that is my beef, I think these fences should not be allowed.  We just have to wait for something to happen and it will and that is what is so frustrating.  I think a lot of people are in denial about what their animals are capable of.  I still have had no luck getting in touch with my neighbor.  We have started talking to the dog and using it's name but it still growls, barks  and lunges.  I have seen walkers and folks strolling ther children cross the street because of the Rottie's behavior.  This dog is already a menace and he is only a year old.  I was going to have my girls toss him some biscuits to get on his good side but thought better of it, I don't want him to feel we are rewarding his aggressive behavior.  One thing I am encouraged by is that when the landscapers come and enter his yard he does not go after them.  He just stands at attention watching.  I really do hope I am wrong in my assesment of this pup.  I appreciate everyone's comments.