Aa
Eye concerns
I am a 34 year old white male with a pretty normal health record, but I have some particular eye concerns. I have been nearsighted since 12 or 13 and my perscription has held at -7 to -7.5 for years. 6 years ago overnight I got gobs of floaters in both eyes. I went to a specialist imediately and they told me they din't see anything alarming but I needed to watch for flashes, etc. They said there wasnt anything you could do about floaters. Fast foward 6 years. The floaters didn't go away at all. I had a bladder infection of some sort so my doctor put me on a 30 day antibiotic. During this I noticed my floaters get about 20% worse, so I went back to the specialist. This time I got a different doctor,after he was done looking at my eyes he said as far as the floaters go you just have to ignore them. Then he asked me if anyone had mentioned Glaucoma to me before. He said my optic nerves were 70% cupped and my IOC hovers around 18 - 20 in both eyes. He said the doctor from 6 years ago documented my nerves at 45% cupped. So he scheduled me for a visual field test which turned out normal. I then went to my optomitrist who disagreed with the specialists readings-he said more like 50% cppd and also said his records did not indicate any change over 5 years, and he gave me pictures of my eyes. I took a micrometer to the photo and I come up with 50% cupped in one and 55% cupped in the other. There is no family history of glaucoma or any other eye problems anywhere in my family. Just some nearsightedness. This is really unsettling that I don't know who to listen to or what is going on.
Concerned Guy:
If you want to pursue Lyme, you'll have to do alot of reading to educate yourself.
The symptoms you listed are associated with Lyme and other tick borne infections. Waking up with a stiff neck the day after starting the antibiotics sounds like a herx reaction.
I remember one mother at LymeNet said that her daughter's main symptom was sore eyes.
Night sweats indicate an underlying infection, and are a symptom of Babesiosis, one of the co-infections associated with Lyme.
Read the info at the Canadian Lyme Foundation, whose link I provided.
You can read the "newbie help links" near the top of the threads on the medical questions forum at LymeNet.
Regarding the rash, you can view various Lyme rashes if you click on the "rash" link on the symptoms page at Can Lyme.
LymeNet occasionally has problems logging on when they are doing site maintanance....if you can't register within a day or two, I'll contact the moderators for you.
Carol
If you want to pursue Lyme, you'll have to do alot of reading to educate yourself.
The symptoms you listed are associated with Lyme and other tick borne infections. Waking up with a stiff neck the day after starting the antibiotics sounds like a herx reaction.
I remember one mother at LymeNet said that her daughter's main symptom was sore eyes.
Night sweats indicate an underlying infection, and are a symptom of Babesiosis, one of the co-infections associated with Lyme.
Read the info at the Canadian Lyme Foundation, whose link I provided.
You can read the "newbie help links" near the top of the threads on the medical questions forum at LymeNet.
Regarding the rash, you can view various Lyme rashes if you click on the "rash" link on the symptoms page at Can Lyme.
LymeNet occasionally has problems logging on when they are doing site maintanance....if you can't register within a day or two, I'll contact the moderators for you.
Carol
carol in PA...the day I started on the 30 day antibiotic I got the following symptoms: Woke up the next morning with a horrible stiff sore neck which I had never experienced in my life. Now 7 months later it is still stiff but not as bad, night sweats, headaches, nausea, diarrea, loss of apetite rash, sore lymph nodes in my whole body, conjunctivitis, sore throat, mouth sores, never had a fever that I could tell. I thouhgt I had hiv or something. I was tested for everything including lyme about 4 months after the initial urinary tract infection. Everything came back neg. Most of those symptoms have now left except the sore neck and iritated eyes. 6 years ago when the floaters first started is also when i suddenly had major depression and unexplained crying episodes. I had recently moved to PA at the time, but I have never been quite the same since. How do I even go about trying to figure the Lyme possibility out? I really dont have a problem with sore joints or anything, and I also have hypoglycimia. I cant set up an account on the website you listed...its not working correctly.
One thing that caught my eye on this thread is that you suddenly developed lots of floaters.
Floaters can be a symptom of Lyme Disease.
Another thing is that your floaters increased when you were on an antibiotic.
Lyme symptoms can increase the bacteria is killed off, known as a Jarische Herxheimer reaction.
The dead bacteria act as toxins in the body, causing symptoms, until they are cleared by the liver.
This site has alot of good info about Lyme.
http://www.canlyme.com/patsymptoms.html
I'm a member of the discussion group at LymeNet.org, and we have many people there with various visual problems caused by Lyme.
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php
Here is an example of one discussion about floaters:
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=039994
There may be other things that cause floaters, too, but Lyme Disease must be considered.
Wishing you the best,
Carol
Floaters can be a symptom of Lyme Disease.
Another thing is that your floaters increased when you were on an antibiotic.
Lyme symptoms can increase the bacteria is killed off, known as a Jarische Herxheimer reaction.
The dead bacteria act as toxins in the body, causing symptoms, until they are cleared by the liver.
This site has alot of good info about Lyme.
http://www.canlyme.com/patsymptoms.html
I'm a member of the discussion group at LymeNet.org, and we have many people there with various visual problems caused by Lyme.
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php
Here is an example of one discussion about floaters:
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=039994
There may be other things that cause floaters, too, but Lyme Disease must be considered.
Wishing you the best,
Carol
maybe. uncontrolled glaucoma usually becomes PAINFUL eventually...and by the time its painful then its very difficult to manage. so a lot of the time we treat the "blind" eye with glaucoma just to PREVENT it from becoming painful later.
I hope this isn't considered rude to ask in someone else's question, but it is sort of related. I'm the one with a congenital cataract. The last time (3 years ago) I went to get my eyes test, they told me my pressure was high and to keep an eye on it (bad pun)... Well I'm wondering.. since I am pretty much blind in that eye anyway, is there any need to treat it? (IF it is ever confirmed glaucoma, I understand what you are saying about it being hard to nail that down)
yes that is true. there is pretty much nothing you could do to make your IOP get dangerously high for long periods (or even minimally high for that matter).
excersizing in general helps b/c of increased blood flow around the eye/optic nerve.
yes, lift all the weights you want and hang upside down all you want. its all fine. you wont be making your IOP high enough for long enough to make any differnce.
excersizing in general helps b/c of increased blood flow around the eye/optic nerve.
yes, lift all the weights you want and hang upside down all you want. its all fine. you wont be making your IOP high enough for long enough to make any differnce.
I have one more related question..If you have insight I would apreciate it. I am now looking to make sure I don't agrivate the IOP, and I want to do things to help keep it down. I know excersising can overall lower IOP, but I really want to continue doing things like going to the gym. I'm not a bodybuilder by profession, but does lifting moderate weights raise the pressure? I would like to be able to keep "working out". Should I be worried about doing certain things other than hanging upside down or skydiving? And even doing these things, I'm assuming only raises pressure while your doing it and not long term, which is what can be dangerous. Is this true? Thanks
Thanks. That is sort of the impression I get is that it is not a static thing, but changes that are observed, and this was the first real baseline for most of this so I have to monitor it now. I do know that the "cups" are nice and round and in the center..no notching or funny colors or dark spots or anything. Its just a mental battle for me now and you know how strong mental powers can be. I feel like i can feel stress on my optic nerve now! LOL i have to somehow be able to forget about this possible situation and enjoy life.
okay the floaters are in no way related to the intraocular pressure or "cupping". those are 2 totally unrelated, totally separate things.
the floaters: lost of people have them. there is not a lot that can be done. they need to be watched for retinal problems, but 99% of the time there is no associated retinal problem. just have them looked at periodically and try to ignore them. thats all you can do. they are not dangerous.
about the "cupping". here's my glaucoma spiel...are you ready? lol it may get long:
glaucoma is poorly understood by the eye care profession as a whole. even "glaucoma specialists" (like myself) frequently do not know whats going on with an individual patient. it is very difficult to decide who has glaucoma and who does not, and to what extent someone has glaucoma, to what extent they are progressing", and what if anything to do about it (surgery, prescription eyedrops, etc). there are 150,000+ opinions on all this and they all differ. just like you found out, some people even differ on what your optic nerves look like.
its just like an argument my son & i had the other day: i said "hey look at that red car over there", and he said..."you mean the kind of dark pinky-orange one?". hopefully you can see where i am going with this. whether you are 50% cupped or 70% cupped is difficult to tell sometimes. you had a very scientific way of doing it (measuring on the photo), but even that is not 100% reliable b/c it doesnt take into account the depth of the cupping...only the horizontal width/height. its complicated.
i have many, many patients who i honestly dont know if thay have glaucoma or not. i've seen them 10 times over 2-3 years and i still dont know.
there are a LOT of factors that go into glaucoma: weight, blood pressure, other systemic disease like diabetes, etc etc ad nauseum. but IMO the "BIG 4" are:
1) family history: if someone has a father/mother/sister/brother with glaucoma, then the odds go WAY UP
2) intraocular pressure: anything higher than 22 i start getting really interested. anything over about 28 is highly probable to be glaucoma. 18 is usually not that interesting (there are exceptions).
3) optic nerve appearance: anything over 50% cupped is certainly interesting. and of course i look for small hemorrhaging, "notches", vertical cupping vs horizontal cupping, DISPLACED cups with thin rim tissue on one side, "bayonetting" of blood vessels, overpass of blood vessels, etc etc ad nauseum.
4)visual field performance: if you were "clean" (meaning you didnt miss any) then thats good, but if you miss a few, you have to miss the SAME points on subsequent testing before i consider it noteworthy. this is called "repeatability". if you dont miss the same ones over & over again, i dont put much stock in it.
the newer tests like "GDx" and "HRT" are great, but they dont make it *that* much easier to diagnose GLC IMO. they probably pick up more GLC than if they are not used, so i guess they're pretty good. you probably need a "GDx". you might have a hard time finding one. start calling offices and ask if they have a "G-D-X" machine. if they say "what!!??" then hang up. if they know what you're talking about, then they either have one or know someone who does. i live in a town of 200,000 residents and there is not a GDx machine for 150 miles. so they're pretty rare (b/c they're really, really expensive).
if you really are 50%/55% cupped (but healthy rim tissue) and have a totally clean visual field and pressures under 20, then IMO you are *probably* NOT a glaucoma patient. you certainly are a "suspect" just based on your cupping. now if you really are 70% cupped, then that makes it more interesting, certainly. but still no definitive/easy diagnosis of YES YOU HAVE GLAUCOMA or NO YOU DO NOT HAVE GLAUCOMA. i wish it were that easy.
you'll need repeated pressure checks and repeated visual fields and repeated optic nerve analysis over many months/years to determine if you have GLC. it may take years and years before you even know if you have it or not.
unless you start showing obvious field loss or have a pressure of 50, dont trust anyone who says "you have glaucoma" w/o testing you like crazy 1st. probably many years of testing.
the floaters: lost of people have them. there is not a lot that can be done. they need to be watched for retinal problems, but 99% of the time there is no associated retinal problem. just have them looked at periodically and try to ignore them. thats all you can do. they are not dangerous.
about the "cupping". here's my glaucoma spiel...are you ready? lol it may get long:
glaucoma is poorly understood by the eye care profession as a whole. even "glaucoma specialists" (like myself) frequently do not know whats going on with an individual patient. it is very difficult to decide who has glaucoma and who does not, and to what extent someone has glaucoma, to what extent they are progressing", and what if anything to do about it (surgery, prescription eyedrops, etc). there are 150,000+ opinions on all this and they all differ. just like you found out, some people even differ on what your optic nerves look like.
its just like an argument my son & i had the other day: i said "hey look at that red car over there", and he said..."you mean the kind of dark pinky-orange one?". hopefully you can see where i am going with this. whether you are 50% cupped or 70% cupped is difficult to tell sometimes. you had a very scientific way of doing it (measuring on the photo), but even that is not 100% reliable b/c it doesnt take into account the depth of the cupping...only the horizontal width/height. its complicated.
i have many, many patients who i honestly dont know if thay have glaucoma or not. i've seen them 10 times over 2-3 years and i still dont know.
there are a LOT of factors that go into glaucoma: weight, blood pressure, other systemic disease like diabetes, etc etc ad nauseum. but IMO the "BIG 4" are:
1) family history: if someone has a father/mother/sister/brother with glaucoma, then the odds go WAY UP
2) intraocular pressure: anything higher than 22 i start getting really interested. anything over about 28 is highly probable to be glaucoma. 18 is usually not that interesting (there are exceptions).
3) optic nerve appearance: anything over 50% cupped is certainly interesting. and of course i look for small hemorrhaging, "notches", vertical cupping vs horizontal cupping, DISPLACED cups with thin rim tissue on one side, "bayonetting" of blood vessels, overpass of blood vessels, etc etc ad nauseum.
4)visual field performance: if you were "clean" (meaning you didnt miss any) then thats good, but if you miss a few, you have to miss the SAME points on subsequent testing before i consider it noteworthy. this is called "repeatability". if you dont miss the same ones over & over again, i dont put much stock in it.
the newer tests like "GDx" and "HRT" are great, but they dont make it *that* much easier to diagnose GLC IMO. they probably pick up more GLC than if they are not used, so i guess they're pretty good. you probably need a "GDx". you might have a hard time finding one. start calling offices and ask if they have a "G-D-X" machine. if they say "what!!??" then hang up. if they know what you're talking about, then they either have one or know someone who does. i live in a town of 200,000 residents and there is not a GDx machine for 150 miles. so they're pretty rare (b/c they're really, really expensive).
if you really are 50%/55% cupped (but healthy rim tissue) and have a totally clean visual field and pressures under 20, then IMO you are *probably* NOT a glaucoma patient. you certainly are a "suspect" just based on your cupping. now if you really are 70% cupped, then that makes it more interesting, certainly. but still no definitive/easy diagnosis of YES YOU HAVE GLAUCOMA or NO YOU DO NOT HAVE GLAUCOMA. i wish it were that easy.
you'll need repeated pressure checks and repeated visual fields and repeated optic nerve analysis over many months/years to determine if you have GLC. it may take years and years before you even know if you have it or not.
unless you start showing obvious field loss or have a pressure of 50, dont trust anyone who says "you have glaucoma" w/o testing you like crazy 1st. probably many years of testing.
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