double/triple/quadruple vision? explainaiton needed

[Rick_101]

Hi

At 100 ft I see 2 red traffic lights vertically at the first light , looking to the next light now at 200 ft on the next block I see 3 lights, one on top two on the bottom,  At 300 ft on the next block  I now see 4 red lights, one on top and three on bottom, the next block at 400 ft I see 5 whewwwwwwwwww ~ now almost is a circle. As the distance increases the number of lights increase vertically downward and seem to circle inward, and yes the same in both eyes together, and either or ~

Example of traffic lights and text I see without glasses ~  http://198.170.83.45/redlight.jpg

QUESTION: WHAT CAUSES THIS PHENOMENON ? and is there a name for it?

Thanks Rick

[MBrandt001]

Rick, I have the same issue you are having ( or had ).  The further away you are from an object ( like a stoplight ) the more visible the ghost images become.  That is because the ghost image are "angulary" separated from the main image.  In my case, if I look at the moon I see double - triple - quadruple ghost images that are about 1/2 the moon diameter away.  The moon diameter is 1/2 of a degree, so my multiple ghost images are displaced by about 1/4 of a degee.  The closer an object is the larger the angle it subtends, but the angular displacement of the ghost images remains the same.  Thus, the ghost images tend to merge together and become less noticeable the closer the object becomes.  I am an optical engineer and amateur astronomer and this conditon drives me nuts...  especially givent the fact that the vision medical professionals seem clueless.  My opthamologist believes it is dry eyes... but I disagree.  She gave me a presription to address astigmatisms, which helped only a little, but gave me headaches... becasue it screwed up my peripheral vision.  I came across the article below, from 1913, in which a scientist simulates the effect in the lab, and attributes it to obstructions in the eye (i.e., cataracts).  I will be pursuing this route in the near future.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/003591571300601640

Sincerely,

Michael Brandt

[JohnHaganMD]

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[SadieMalmberg]

I guess there are a lot of us out here. The images seem to spread farther apart the older I get,and all the images are clear so I can't tell which is the true image.

[JohnHaganMD]

It's not an usual problems and as earlier mentioned can be due to need for glasses, improper glasses fit or prescription, improper contacts lens, eye muscle problems (strabismus) cornea disease, lens disease like cataracts or macular problems.

[John C Hagan III, MD, FACS, FAAO]

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[Hisslave]

I too have exactly the same symptoms. Any answers yet?

[Airboatpaul]

Hi Rick,
I have the exact problem you are dealing with. Did you ever find an answer?
Thanks,
Paul

[John C Hagan III, MD, FACS, FAAO]

You're welcome JCH MD

[Rick_101]

Thanks J

I look J  forward to it

I made up the "only " the distance prescription according to the I-scription results and could not actually see very clear, way too strong The i-scription machine  interpreted my distance at OD 350 and OS at 325,  I had the i-scription test done twice using two different machines, the second time as per the suggestion of the troubleshooting team in California was with a cover over the machine to block out any ambient light.

I now wear flat top trifocals which are necessary for my work. (very little linear distortion)  OD +2.75 cylinder - .50 at 80 degrees OS +2.50 -.75 at 120 degrees. Add 2.50 Intermediate 1.50. Glasses do eliminate the multiple images but are only masking the real worsening yet to be uncovered actual origin of the problem.

I will keep you posted as the research continues.

Thanks for the extra effort J, it is very much appreciated ~

Sincerely, Rick_101

[John C Hagan III, MD, FACS, FAAO]

Those don't look that "hot" (ie like a topography map the red spots are not that high compared with the rest of the cornea).  Moreover looking at your RX on the iprofiler it should not create the red dot images that you posted first.  I have to tell you I don't know what's causing your problem.

One eye for sure cataract or cornea problem would be first on the list. However with both eyes its most unlikely that the images in the two eyes would be identical.

I wear a pair of wave form iscription glasses. Wonder if they would "cure" your  problem? We have a paper that should be published in the next 3-4months that compares the Zeiss iscription glasses with non-wavefront ground glasses.


JCH

[Rick_101]

Both Eyes

JH, sorry I am back, thought of something, unless I am reading wrong/interpreting incorrectly the i-profiler image below shows each eye has aberrational hot spots just about dead center on both eyes? hence perhaps an explanation of why the distortion in both eyes is about the same? You also mentioned early in this thread that the Pentacam cornea images you saw did not look very bad. So ~

http://198.170.83.45/hotspots.jpg

J your opinion is greatly appreciated;

Sincerely , Rick_101

[Rick_101]

Yes J I will, the both eyes (about) equally is  for sure a question ~ to be continued

OK

I just got a message from someone in Brazil that saw the exact same images but only in one eye. A Cataract was found to be the culprit, New IOL's solved the problem.

I will keep all posted and please feel free to do the same.

Thanks Again J, Rick_101

[John C Hagan III, MD, FACS, FAAO]

Unless you had keratoconus exactly equal in each eye (very unlikely) it's not likely.  Good luck with your research. If you ever get a "for sure" answer please post.

JCH MD

[Rick_101]

Thanks JH point taken

Here is an example I discovered myself where a single taper of a single raised area can create the second and 3rd image etc ~ if the cornea has a front and back and is tilted might the outcome possibly be the same? for now  I am excited to find a way of duplicating what see, how it relates to the eye wow ~ will continue searching and thanks for your suggestion ~

http://198.170.83.45/3rdimage.jpg

[John C Hagan III, MD, FACS, FAAO]

1. I do not think its coming from a central brain origin.
2. I did look at the picture. Nothing in the eye would create the conditions of a jar with three inversion layers and exactly the same in both eyes.
3. I doubt you will find an answer on the internet, or more correctly you'll find a lot of answers but they will all be wrong, I would suggest you see a neuroophthalmologist in NY perhaps one at the medical schools

JCH MD

[Rick_101]

HI Once again JH

Something I found that might be of iimportance/nterest and perhaps have some
bearing on the subject of multiply images ~

If you have a minute please look to this example of a multiply image example/phenomenon. http://198.170.83.45/cat.jpg, image/explanation is from
Wikipedia / optical phenomenon.

Could this possibly have some bearing on the multiply images I seeing, if so according to the aberration tests could anything be ruled out? the Cornea perhaps?

Thanks Rick

[Rick_101]

Hi Again JH

In the above post no no sarcasm was intended  at all ~

Thanks, Rick

[Rick_101]

Thanks J

The astigmatism and cataracts are quite different in both eyes but both eyes exibit the same aberrations characteristics, so! I was thinking hoping there might be a central point that is causing this optical phenomenon, (the brain?),On the other hand the results of doubling and tripling and quadrupling according to distance must be some type of key in the world of optics?  Mirages of sort caused by a know particular?

And yes of course it could be due to any and all things you mentioned but I am trying without success so far to find out exactly what, so saying it could be all of the above is of little comfort J, I think I knew that before the dozens of test results I posted for you to evaluate.

but hey thanks for the look see. If you can think of anything or find any information with regards to this visual phenomenon please let me know.

Sincerely, Rick_101

[John C Hagan III, MD, FACS, FAAO]

The problem could be due to needing glasses, irregular corneal astigmatism, cataracts and much less likely macular disease of the retina.

JCH MD

[ledbrv]

It happened to me. In my case it was cataract. By your description,  if it is really cataract, you doctor may recommend surgery asap. In my case, surgery results were fantastic.