Alpha Gamma Prego &Prayer Buddy Detour

DETOUR!!!!!! Had to start a new thread, the old one was slowing way down!


Mary--Sorry to hear about AF showing her unwelcome self so early. How maddening!! At least you think you know why: the trick is to get your doctor to agree and think it is his/her idea! If you got pg last year, I think you will have a BFP once you get this med dosage issue resolved. BTW, I have never heard of that before--what is it?

Lisa--I got AF on cd33 last cycle, so I know how it is when you are late but feel the impending doom of the hag! However, it ain't over until the fat lady sings, and I haven't sung yet! Just in case, are you all set for next month?

Maria--Good to hear from you!!!!

Empty--what's new down under? (Literally!--Sorry, that was tacky, but I couldn't help being "punny")

Helen--We are not only on the same cycle, but also the same page about going for IVF sooner rather than later if necessary. Still, I am going to give IUI another try with the new meds. PLus, I found out that our first IUI we messed up--my dh abstained for 4 whole days before b/c we thought we would have it done on a Friday but my follies were two small and it was postponed for 2 more days. He had already abstained for 2 days, and we misunderstood and thought he had to keep doing so. Thus, I hope we get better results this time.

Lexima: I start follistim injectables tomorrow: isn't that how you have gotten your 5 follies this cycle? How long have you been taking them? Any bad side effects? Have I gotten you confused with someone else? If so, I am so sorry :-(

I have said 3 prayers for all of us today alone :-)

[babyalive]

By the way Vingulf WELCOME BACK!!!!!!  WE HAVE REALLY MISSED YOU!!!!!

Well, I'll be praying big big prayers tonight for my AGP sisters.  

Mary, Yes, FSH of 11 is very good.  According to my dr. he said he'd be "jumping for joy if my FSH was 11"  But, since it's higher he says pregnancy does happen and he's seen it in his clinic with women of even higher FSH, although my chances are still low and I'm not completely giving up.  Would you mind listing your protocol for me?  I know you've done it before, but I have a hard time keeping up with everyones sometimes!!  I'm sorry.  

Maria - So glad you are back and in the game!  

Helen - Your friend is so lucky to have a friend like you supporting her and hosting a dinner for her.  This time next year she'll be doing the same for you I'm sure!  

Heathjo - I'm saying a prayer that you have a quick and easy HSG.

Lexima -  I'll be saying a prayer that this IUI bring you loads and loads of ssbd!!

Empty - still waiting to hear about your appt. and praying the bding brings you big, big BFP.

Annabrita - I'm sorry I've lost track of where you are at.  What's going on with you?

OK.  Still no AF.  I'm not testing though.  We'll see what tomorrow brings.


Heathjo - I'm not sure about this coming cycle.  I'll need to call my dr. if/when AF shows up.  The clinic is out of ds samples for Feb..  I did find a clinic in California that has great donor profiles and will ship samples. They even list photos and audio recordings of donors. So, that got me kind of excited.  I'm going to talk to my dr.  about possible injectables next cycle.  I feel about injectables the way you and Helen feel about IVF.  It is more expensive, but in the long run can save emotional diress(not sure of spelling?), and $$.  I'm just in a wait and see pattern at the moment.  

[ms320]

HeathJo:  Thanks for starting the new thread.  With our volume of posting, I guess we should schedule one for every two weeks or so.  Your right about making my MD think it is her idea to adjust my meds.  I think if I call her and tell her my symptoms, she should jump at the chance.  The medication that I'm on is Synthroid, and it is for hypothyroidism. I still havae a bunch of the higher dose, so I am tempted to take it even if she doesn't agree.  

Lisa: As I said, my protocol is a little different than some others that I've seen.  I am supposed to monitor for my LH surge.  10 days after that, I am to apply an estrogen patch, which gets changed every two days for up to four patches.  I also take three Ganirelix injections, 11, 12 and 13 days after my LH surge.  One or two days after my third Ganirelix injection, I should get a period.  On the second day of my period I go into the REs office where they do an u/s and b/w.  That evening I start the second phase of the protocol.  I don't have all the details, but it is some mixture of Follistim, Menopur and Ganirelix.  There is also some Progesterone in Oil.  Sorry I am sketchy about the second half of the protocol, but they just give you the meds you need to take.  They don't give you the whole protocol until you've been in for your u/s and b/w.   I do know that once I start the stim meds, I have to go in for monitoring every other day for the first five days, and then every day after that until my trigger shot.  Looks like I will have to put my life on hold when that time comes.


For anyone who is interested, I recently read a book entitled: Nurturing Yourself Through IVF.  It was a very easy read.  None of the information contained was extremely earth shattering, but it did give a few helpful hints for anyone having problems with fertility.  If anybody would like to read it, I would be happy to send it along to you.  Just let me know

Mary

[babyalive]

Hi Mary,

Wow, your protocol definitely sounds aggressive which is what you need.  I too have hypothyroidism.  Synthroid didn't work for me.  I had some of the same symptoms you're describing.  My body would act like I was low, but the b/w would show normal.  I then switched to Levothyroxin (levothyroxine) and it is working very well for me.  Sometimes drs. are reticent to adjust your thyroid meds when b/w comes back normal, even though your symptoms are indicating otherwise.  Does your dr. check T-3, T-4 and TSH, or just TSH?
Sometimes your TSH can be normal, even though one of your T-3 or T-4 are off.  I apologize if I've asked you more than once about your protocol.  

Thanks for the info. on the book.  The Fertility Cure is also a great read if you get the chance.  I really liked the research data it listed in support of acupuncture for infertility.  How is your acu. going?

[ms320]

Hi Lisa,

My protocol is defiantely aggressive.  But, if I am going to do it, I am glad the protocol is more geared towards my needs.  I've heard some horror stories from friends who have had more conservative protocols and when they fail, they simply repeat the same protocol for the next trial.  

My hypothyroidism is really strange.  I was originally diagnosed over 10 years ago, and had been stable on a fairly high dose of synthroid.  Last year I had routine b/w with my RE and she found that my T3 and T4 were both high, and my TSH was supressed.  My dose was immediately lowered and the T3 and T4 both came back within normal range.  My TSH remained supressed though, so my RE wouldn't do IVF.  They lowered my dose three more times until my TSH normalized.  The problem is that I now feel hypothyroid for the first time in years.  I am very fatigued and lethargic, I've been steadily gaining weight and I am cold intolerant.  I really was willing to put up with all of this if it meant I had a chance to become pregnant, but I think it is wreaking havoc with my cycle right now.  Anyway, I will call my endocrinologist tomorrow and tell her how I'm feeling.

Acupunture is one thing that is going well.  I feel very comfortable with her (except as I said, I don't like when people touch me)  She seems very knowledgable about infertility and also thyroid issues.  It may seem strange, but I actually like the feel of the needles.  Her office is really cool, too.   She has an old, tin ceiling and after she places the needles, she puts a heat lamp above my stomach and I just look at the ceiling for 45 minutes.  It is almost hypnotic.  Sounds hoaky, I know, but I really like it.  I figure, I used to spend almost $100 per week on coffee, so I don't feel too badly about the $$ for the acupuncture sessions

[empty]

hi guys ....glad you started a new thread.

Heathjo  - well you asked so i should indulge. i washed all my curtains this weekend and weeded. its summer here so on the hot days you have to get the household cleaning things out of the way. other than that i shopped on the internet for some "stuff" ahem - if i am only going to get one chance every 2 months to have my good tube chugging along, i might as well put in a damn good effort. sorry for the tmi fellas but you know how it is :)

[magda_s]

Heather, thanks for inviting me along to the thread...  Hi again to those of you I know and greetings to those I don't.
Just thought I'd say thanks for all the support I've gotten in the last couple of days... for those who don't know, I've been ever so proud of myself this second round of IVF because my TWW was going by fantastically well.  I somehow managed to completely ignore that I was even IN a TWW... no obsessing, nothing.  Then on Day 11 it started and yesterday, Day 12, I pretty much lost the plot.  I go for my blood test tomorrow morning and I'm more freaked out than I can possibly say because I can't get over the fact that I have ZERO symptoms.  Everyone is telling me that 0 symptoms means nothing and that being that if all has gone well, I would only be two weeks pregnant, it's perfectly normal to have no symptoms at this stage but I just can't help worrying.
However, I guess it all comes to a head tomorrow.
Here's wishing us all lots of SBD.
magda

[empty]

hi Magda

Welcome ....we are a good supportive bunch and are always happy to look out for each other. Hope your blood test brings out the biggest BFP for you. Let us know how you get on.

[fifi blue]

Hi Ladies, just a quick update.  I'm having my retrieval tomorrow morning.  I've only got 6 follicles and one is probably postmature and a couple too small.  I'm a bit scared that I'll have nothing to transfer on Friday.  Please pray for me.  

I thinking and praying for all of you.
God bless.

[Lexima]

Magda - Welcome to the group.

fifi - what does it mean postmature follicles I've never heard that term being used.

HeathJo - you got it right.  This is my 4th cycle on Follistim, this is one of the better cycles for me.  I've been experimenting with doses and 75 works best for me.  Even RE said so herself today.  The only side affects that I've experienced are headaches but not this cycle (knocking on wood).  But depends on your response, you might feel bloated or O cramping.  I'm definitelly feeling it this month.  Because there are many follicles the ovaries are expanding and are causing this discomfort.  Otherwise it's really easy to use

Today I had my morning monitoring appointment, and RE was very pleased with results said it's a very good cycle.  Today is CD8 on the right I have a 16 and 4or 5 that range from 10-13.  On the left I have an 18 and 2-3 that range from 10-13.  Sounds like only 2 are dominant.  But they want me to continue with the same dose and if I don't have LH surge come back on Wed.  At that point she felt I'd be ready for a trigger and IUI on Friday.  If I do get a surge then I'd have to come in for IUI the next morning, so gotta keep testing.  DH is perfectly OK with this, and that makes me so releaved.

[Sheri1972]

I'm just starting Follistim for the first time tomorrow evening, and I'm fearful that my ovaries will explode with eggies!  I think the doc is starting me out on too strong of a dosage, but I suppose we'll wait and see...  I've never taken Follistim before, only clomid.  Anything I should know?  Are the side effects different from clomid?

Is anyone else on CD3 tomorrow?

HeathJo, you mentioned something about a problem with abstaining prior to IUI.  Why is this a problem?  DH and I have abstained for up to 10 days prior and the doc never commented on it.  In fact, DH always has tons of healthy, happy swimmers, with good morphology as far as I know.  Is it a problem for you because of a male infertility factor?  I believe my doctor recommends abstaining at least for 3 - 5 days prior to the IUI.

Sheri

[fifi blue]

My clinic has used the term postmature to describe a follicle that's probably too big.  Sometimes they will let a follicle mature past its prime and not trigger you so that they can get grow more of the smaller follicles and thereby increase your chances.

Good luck with your IUI.  Sounds like you've gotten a lot of follies to work with.
f.

[Helen72]

fifi blue,
I hope they have a few good embryos to transfer on Friday.  Good luck with the retreival tomorrow morning.  I heard that it's the most invasive part of the whole process and I hope everything goes smoothly.  

Lexima,
I am soooo excited for you!!!   So many follies. I bet this is your month!

Lisa,
how are you doing?  I hope AF is far-far away!!!

Magda,
we are all rooting for you tomorrow!  Just one day left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lexima]

fifi - thanks for explanation.  What is the max size of a follicle and would it be unusible if too big? or is it that the bigger they get the better.  Sorry if I sound dumb.

Sheri1972 - What dose of follistim did they give you, will you be monitored often?  It's critical to be monitored while you're on injections, this way they can see the progress and check your blood level and if they notice that things are moving to fast or you estrodial is too high they will lower your dose.  It happend to me the first month I was using this drug.  Other months I've used lower doses because of my response the first month but they only produced 1 follicle.  So this month I'm back on the higher dose.
There are minimal side effects with Follistim, when I was on clomid the biggest discomfort for me was hot flashes/night sweats.  As I mentioned in my earlier post, headaches, cramping and bloating are the only things I've experienced in terms of side effects.

Good Luck.
Milana

[fifi blue]

I honestly don't know what's considered post mature, probably something in the mid 20's.  There seems to be lots of contradictions about what's immature and what's mature. Every clinic is different.  I'm going in for retrieval tomorrow with at 25, 18.5, 18.5, 14, 12 & 12.  I'm assuming that the 25 is postmature and the 12's were too small but they'll take everything and try and fertilise.

Your sizes sound great and you have plenty of time for all to mature.  

[magda_s]

Thank you all and the very best of luck to each and every one of you.
It's almost midnight here and I'm off to bed.  Not that I think I'm actually going to get any sleep tonight!  Tomorrow have to be at the lab tomorrow at 8 am and will get the result at 11am.  Will be purchasing a ticket at 11:30 if it doesn't go well but God I hope that's not the case!
Fifi Blue, I'll be praying for us both... all night!!

[babyalive]

Hi All,

Well,  AF is here for her lovely visit.  I just phoned my dr. to ask if I can start injectables this month.  I just want to have one month of being very aggressive instead of lots of months of just waiting to see.  This will most likely be my last shot.  

Can any of you let me know what to expect while on injectables?  My drs. office told me today that I'll need to go in something like 3 times a week for monitoring.  I'm just wondering how you all work that around your work schedules.  And do you tell your employers the reason you are missing work?  My dr. is supposed to phone me tomorrow with all the details.

Empty - How was your dr. visit?

I am saying a big prayer for Fifi's retrieval.
I'm thinking of you all and praying our group has at least one BFP this cycle!  Sorry I was the last one to close this cycle with a BFN.  )-:

[Lexima]

Babyalive - OH NO, I'm so sorry that AF showed up, but you have a great attitude, I hope your dr will give you a more agressive plan and I really really hope that it works.  Don't give up.
As it goes for monitoring, it's not that bad.  My clinic is open for monitoring every day from 7:30-8:30 holidays and weekends, no appt needed.  So I don't even have to tell my boss anything at all, bec usually I'm in the office by 9am.  Its about 15 min away from work so when it's warm I walk, now that is cold I take subway for 2 stops.  But that's why this clinic works for me.  

Fifi - I remember seeing a lot of posts where women had follicles over 20mm.  Good luck tomorrow, you have a good number I hope that the little ones are just as fisty as the bigger ones and will hook up.

Still no O today, so that's a good thing, my follies can contineu to grow for few more days.

[Helen72]

So sorry about AF  :(
I hope that being aggressive works well for you.  Monitoring and dr's visits can take a toll on your work especially since doc's are busy and not very flexible and people who teach work on a regular schedule.  If I have to miss a class I try to discreetly arrange for a substitute.  Besides my dh and people on this board no one knows about my struggles with infertility.  When I had my surgery and had to cancel one day of classes, I told my teaching assistants I need an appendectomy, gave them my lecture notes and told them to cover for me.  Can you arrange with someone to substitute for you?  Perhaps you can return the favor later when they need a day off?  You don''t own any explanations to anyone!  Medical problems are private and protected by privacy laws for a reason.
I hope this month works out for you!

[babyalive]

Fifi/Lexima/Helen - I wish I knew more about follic sizes and numbers to be of some assistance to you.  I do know that anything around, or above 20 is good.  Don't know how far above 20 is bad.  I'll be learning more this month I'm sure.

Helen/Lexima - Thank you for the info. on monitoring.  The clinic I would normally go to is about a 2 hr distance from my home, so I will defintely be missing work.  We are trying to work it out so a local clinic can do the u/s and then give info. to my clinic.  That'll work out better, but I'm still going to miss mornings.  The way substitute teaching works in elementary school is that the district covers you shift with subs. in 4 hr blocks.  So, if I'm only an hr late the district is required to hire a sub and pay them for 4 hrs. I need to call our office secretary the night before or early, early am to get this shift covered.  I've been missing a lot of work already because of the dr. appts, and IUI's.   My administrator does know I'm dealing with some "medical" issue though I haven't elaborted.  This will just complicate things a bit more.  But, they are generally understanding.  

Thanks again for your support and info.  I wish I had more to offer you in return!
Lisa

[empty]

hi guys

so i am back from my doctors visit and he has told me that clomid in his opinion is not an option. they have left me with options like IUI, GIFT or IVF. my head is just spinning and i am struggling at the moment so i will talk to you guys later.

Lisa - i am so so sorry that A/F is here. I will PM you later.

[Helen72]

Empty,
you have one blocked tube but not both.  Am I right?  Many ladies got pregnant on this forum with only one tube taking meds+IUI.  All you need is one side.  IVF of course gets around all tube problems.  Take your time and talk to your dh about your treatment options.  Make sure you are both comfortable with whatever route you choose.  
I felt so lost when I heard similar options from my doc.  However, once you pick your plan of action you will feel better and you will have a more positive outlook.  
For now, I can only gove you a cyber hug:
((HUG))

[vingulf]

Heather: did you do your HSG yet? Sorry, I am so behind in the news. I havent been online much.

Lisa: sorry about AF. Don't worry, BFP will happen soon :-) I ended up talking to my manager and director about my procedures. I wasn't really totally missing work but have been out during the day for 1-2 hours. I'm glad I did because now my manager understands my needs more. I told them about my first cycle after it failed and my manager said he wished I told him - he would have given me that week off!!! I feel lucky that my manager and director are very supportive - it does help alleviate the stress and worries of missing work.I did tell them that this is a personal issue and that I haven't told anyone in the office. So, now, if I do go for a second ivf cycle, I am not as stressed and worried about not being in the office or working from home. Actually, I felt some sort of relief when I told them...

Mary: I just started acupuncture (done 2 sessions so far). Does she put a lot of needles in your ear? I found that weird. I got needles on my ears, hands and feet. I lay there for about 30 minutes. And I actually feel relaxed and fall asleep! Do you get tingly where the needles are? I do! And then after the needles are removed, he massages/rubs my ear and lower back. He said 5 patients of his last year got pg! HIs wife also got pg at age 43! But I am not as hopeful as our infertility issue is with dh. My acupuncturist suggest dh also do acupuncture but dh doesnt want to do it! UGH!

Fifi: good luck on the retrieval. I hope they "harvest" lots of good eggs! :-)

SSBD to all!

Maria

[ms320]

Lisa:  Sorry about AF.  I am glad your RE wants to be aggressive, but the whole monitoring can be somewhat taxing.  I think it is especially difficult when you are trying to keep your private life private.

Lexima:  Wow, seems like things are moving along well for you. Keep those follies growing girl.

Empty: There are many cases of women with one blocked tube giving birth to beautiful babies.   Take your time and do your research.  Talk over all the pros and cons of each with your RE, and base your decision on what you are comfortable with

Fifi: I so hope you have a successful retrieval.  I haven't done nearly enough research to comment intelligently on size or number of follicles.  Try to keep positive thoughts, you'll be in my prayers.

Helen:  How are you doing?  You mentioned that you were hosting a dinner for a pregnant friend.  I admire your strength.  Hopefully, you were able to enjoy yourself.

Well, since my last cycle was so messed up, I am right back among my sorority sisters.  I am cd 6, and gearing up to begin monitoring for LH surge again.  Deja Vu all over again.

I spent the day trying to get in touch with my MD (not my RE) to resolve my thyroid issue.  It was maddening because the phone rang off the hook.  I tried calling at least once an hour between 9 and 5 and nobody answered.  I went through the main reception area, and they don't take messages. They just put the call through to her office.  Not even a voice mail.  I don't know if I overstepped, but I used to work at a hospital affiliated with the one my MD works out of.  I phoned a colleague and had her get me my MDs email address, so I contacted her via email.  Hopefully she won't be so pissed that she ignores me.  I guess it is difficult to ignore an email though, since it leaves a paper trail.

[ms320]

Maria

Welcome back.  I must have been typing while you were posting.  My acupuncturist only puts a few needles in my ears.  She also sticks one right at the top of my head, which is kind of weird, one in the middle of my forehead, a couple in my neck, a couple in my chest, several in my lower abdomen, and then ones in my hands, legs and feet.  It doesn't really make me feel too tingly unless I flex my thumb while the needle is in, then I can feel some weird sensations shooting up my arm.  

Did your RE suggest anything your dh can do to improve your odds.  I know sometimes they say to bd between 5 days and 2 days before ovulation in order to get rid of the "tired" swimmers.  I guess the theory is that by O time, the swimmers that are left are fresher and stronger.  Also, if dh doesn't want to do acupuncture, what about herbs and or supplements.  The 3 I have heard of that are supposed to improve sperm functionare Essential Fatty Acids in the form of flaxseed oil, Panax inseng which is supposed to ncreae both count and motility, and Bee Pollen

Don't know if you have ever looked into it, but maybe it will be helpful.  Of couse, if you do become pregnant using any of these, you will have to name your first child MS320.
LOL

[HeathJo]

Hi guys!

Magda--I am so glad you posted here! I have no clue what the time difference is between here and Syria, but I am thinking of you and waiting with baited breath for your news. SSBD!!!!

Sheri1972--I am starting follistim tonight, so I have had many questions as well. Lexima, who also replied to you, gave me some pointers earlier in this thread, so maybe you can read those and they will help. I am giving myself the shot right after I post this, so I guess we will be close in our schedule. In terms of abstaining, indeed the nurses at both my OBGYN and REs office said waiting more than 48 hours in between can cause a decrease in volume, and also the sperm can die while waiting to release. I asked my dh about it, and he says (warning, may be TMI) that it can get kind of "backed up", and that the first "release" after several days can be smaller, but then the second can be huge. Maybe that is just him though. If it were up to him we would bd 3 times a day--and I am not joking! I hope I did not gross you out too much :-D

Lexima--Follies grow an average of 2mm per day, so I think your chances look very, very good!!!!! Also, a trigger shot can cause additional growth of 1mm-2mm before release, according to my OBGYN, but I haven's asked my RE about that.

FiFi--Huge prayers for you!!! I have never heard of a postmature follicle, as my understanding was that a follicle would release once fully mature, which I have been told must be at least 20mm and up to 24mm. Perhaps your IVF protocol prevents them from releasing so they can be retrieved????? Either way, those little fellas should be just fine to get you pg!!!!

Lisa--OMG I am so feeling for you right now. You know how special you are to me and how connected I feel to your "plight". Please, please let me know if you can work out the injectables and monitoring. If you can do injectables, move fast: I am starting tonight, which is CD5. My REs office uses a special pharmacy and they Fed-Exed them to me. Also, read above about follie size. I am going to do a little research and see if I can learn anything new. I am praying, praying for you, and am always here for you.

Empty--Despite all the true facts posted here to support you, I am sure you are emotional and feel somewhat defeated right now. It is good to process those emotions now, and, as Helen said, make a plan. You are a naturally hard-working, optimistic, resourcful woman, so I KNOW a BFP will happen for you. I am thinking of you, buddy.

Maria--Hey woman! Thanks for asking about my HSG. It is tomorrow afternoon. I was nervous, but, as always, APG helped me get over it, and now I am just not really worrying about it. Besides acupuncture, what else is up with you? OH, and if dh does decide to use flaxseed oil, he can drink a shot of it (like, literally, in a shot glass) and chase it with orange juice so he can't taste it. I used to do that for general health benefits. Also, you can cook with it. It has an odd flavor, so I would look up recipes using it before experimenting.

I really have to give kudos to all you working gals. I am blessed because I do not have to work anymore, but I was a corporate slave for 12 years, and started working when I was 15 and paid my way through Tulane waiting tables and bartending. When my neck was broken for all those years without me knowing what was wrong, it cost me a lot of jobs and grief due to doctor's appts., feeling crappy, and being emotional. Honestly, if I did have to work now, I do not think I could do so without it really, really, affecting my performance. It is difficult enough being a woman in the workplace, and dealing with TTC and maintaining (I should say exceeding) the expectations put upon you and those you put upon yourselves must be HUGELY challenging. I am so proud of you all.

Well, I am off to go inject my first follistim dose (75). Pray for many follies please :-) As always, my prayers will be for all of you. I am very detailed and personalize my prayers, so be assured God/Buddha/Jesus/Allah/The Universe of Kharma or whatever you believe in is going to get an earful!!!

[HeathJo]

Had to post again--I just started freaking out! Having just started femara and follistim, and my HSG being tomorrow, things are moving so fast! I am already worrying: that my ovaries will either over or understimulate; that one or both of my tubes will be blocked; that I will have negative side effects from these new meds; that I will be unsuccessful on this protocol, spend thousands of dollars, and still be childless. . .it goes on and on! I am dreading the 2WW--taking last month "off" I really forgot how torturous it is.

I think I screwed up my follistim shot: I turned the dial to far b/c I didn't hear the "click", so then I dialed it backwards and all this medecine started shooting out of the needle! I got it back down to 75 (I had dialed it up to 150!), and injected. Then I read the part in the leaflet about what to do if this happens, and it says to do a second shot because you lost medecine. Well, since I overdialed, I have no clue how much I lost! I ended up doing a second shot, but only of like 20. I hope I haven't ruined this cycle! I feel like such a moron and am too embarrassed to call my RE.

Anyway, sorry for the rant!

[HeathJo]

Found some good info on  FOLLICLES and ABSTINENCE BEFORE IUI on http://www.fertilityplus.org/faq/iui.html

I would read the whole FAQ page (URL above), but here is the pertinent info:


Q: At what size are follicles considered mature?

A: Many doctors monitor follicle development during IUI cycles. Most trigger when the dominant follicle is within a certain size range. While there is always some difference in doctor preference, the norms are unmedicated 20-24mm, clomiphene citrate 20-24mm, FSH-only meds 17 or 18mm minimum, and FSH+LH would be 16 or 17mm minimum. It is possible for slightly smaller follicles, 14-15mm, to contain a viable egg. Also, follicles continue to grow until they release, usually at a rate of about 1-2 mm per day. A woman may ovulate more than one follicle in a cycle, but the releases will occur within 24 hours. When hCG is not used, only follicles close in size are likely to release. The use of hCG induces ovulation in about 95 percent of women, and will get most mature follicles to rupture.

Q: How long before an IUI should the male abstain from intercourse/ejaculating and store up sperm?

A: This depends on your individual situation, but it usually should not be more than than 72 hours since his last ejaculation in order to ensure the best motility and morphology. Where low sperm count is the reason for IUI, it is generally best to wait 48 hours between ejaculation and collecting sperm for the IUI. With no sperm count issues, it makes sense to wait at least 24 hours. Some suggest trying for about 36 hours to cover the most territory with the highest counts — a common suggestion is to have intercourse around the time of hCG injection.

[HeathJo]

Sorry to psycho-post, but I forgot one more piece of info:

Q: How many follicles give my best chance of getting pregnant?

A: According to different studies, either 3-4 follicles gives one the best chance of getting pregnant, while more follicles beyond that simply increases the risk of multiples. The U.S. study said 4 follicles, while other countries have data stating 3. The U.S. has a higher rate of multiple births, so 3 may be more likely to be the correct answer.

[magda_s]

Lisa, so very sorry to hear about the BFN.  I so VERY much feel for you.  But as has already been said, you do have a fantastic attitude and easy though this is to say, we have to just keep believing it will happen one day.
Empty, I don't know your history but I agree with Helen that once you've made a decision, things will not seem quite so awful.  I'm sure they do right now but perhaps you can take heart in the knowledge that it will get better.  I've only dealt with IVF and I have to say that apart from the TWW I actually find it all very exciting.
As for me, first re the time difference, we're GMT + 2 or for a couple of U.S. examples, we're 10 hours ahead of L.A. and 7 hours ahead of New York.
So, it's 8:30am here and DH went to work late so that he could take me to the lab to have blood taken and then bring me home (as it was too early for me to go to work).  Now I have another 2.5 hours to go before they call me with the result.  If all goes according to plan, DH will have picked me up from work and we'll be home.
He would have had to leave work early today anyway as he has his business trip and has to leave for the airport at 1pm.  I SO want to go with him as he happens to be going to Qatar where my sister lives and I've never been to visit her there and it would be SO brilliant to see her... but I'll forgo the trip happily for a BFP.  I know that might sound silly but for those who haven't seen my other thread where I was discussing this, I was led to believe that one shouldn't fly in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy!  A few of you have pointed out that you've never heard such a thing except for in the case of there being something wrong or in the case of multiples.  I don't know if my Dr. meant it as a general rule or because he knows we're trying for twins but frankly, if there's even the slightest most infinitissimal risk, I'm happy to give up the trip for a BFP!!

[magda_s]

OH MY GOD... OH MY GOD... I can't believe I'm getting to type this and I canNOT stress ENOUGH how VERY surreal this feels...  and now I feel so stupid for all my whinging and whining but... apparently, it's a BFP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OH MY GOD it feels SO unreal.  And here I was freaking out all this time because I was SO convinced that I would intuitively KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt if I was so I couldn't possibly be.  So much for MY intuition.  Now they've told me and I STILL can't make myself believe!
But I do have a question... I did an HCG blood test and the result was 23.2
Now the doc at the lab almost destroyed me because he babbled for ever and got me really worried but in a nutshell he was saying that 23.2 wasn't a sure thing because really it should be above 25.  But then I rang my doctor and he insisted that 23.2 was VERY good and that anything above 10 was good so at 23.2, it's really good.
Is the lab guy an idiot or is my doctor just trying to be nice???
My doctor even said it wasn't necessary to retest in two days.  I thought that was an absolute.  I thought you HAD to retest after 48 hours to see if numbers have doubled to be sure that you are in fact pregnant.  But he's said I don't need to and that in a week I will need to do another b/t and u/s just to make sure all is going along okay.
Any comments, opinions on any of this?  Is 23.2 really good?  Is it a sure thing?  Is it normal to not retest for a week?
And finally, does anyone know if the numbers tell us anything at this stage as to whether it's one or multiples??  Not that it's important.  I will consider myself just as blessed if it's only one but it would be nice to know!
SSBD to all !!!!!!!!!!

[ms320]

Magda:  Oh my God, you are our first BFP!!!!!! That is so awesome.  Don't listen to the lab doc, listen to your own doc who you already have a relationship with.  Not everybody retests in 48 hours.  Oftentimes, they wait a 5 - 7 days to recheck.  Congratulations

HeathJo:  Wow, you are a research/posting machine.  Thanks for all of the info.  No follies for me to worry about yet, but once I start my protocol, the info will be invaluable.  Good luck with your HSG.  I know it is a little overwhelming when things start to move along, but remember, it's a good thing, not a bad thing.  You are taking control and doing what you can to realize your dream.  I wouldn't sweat the Follistim fiasco.  My friend did exactly the same thing you just described.  Her son is due in April..

[Helen72]

Congrats!  Some people start out with very low numbers.  So, your doctor is right.  The important thing is that the numbers go up.  If I were you I would re-test in 48 hours just to make sure the #'s are going up but that's because I am very impatient.
Enjoy your BFP!

[magda_s]

Good to know Helen...Thanks.  I admit... I am a bit worried about the low number.  But a doctor cousin pointed out that the numbers change so fast at this stage that had I tested an hour or two later than I did, it might have been a fair bit higher... and I'm holding onto that!!
But I think I just decided to do as you suggested... was just saying in another thread.  There's no WAY I'll be able to wait a WEEK to see my doc for the u/s.  I'll drive myself insane wondering if everything's still okay!
Yup... that's it... I'm testing again after tomorrow!

[Helen72]

Yes, waiting is a total torture.  First you waited for 2 weeks and now your doc tells you to wait another week to know for sure??!!  Those people just don't understand how we feel.
I hope your numbers skyrocket!!!

[Lexima]

OMG this is so great!!!  I'm so exicited for you.
And so much for people saying they just have a feeling when they are preg.  I guess it can go either way.  Do you have any symptoms?

I'll be looking out for your posts to see your progress.  

[magda_s]

Helen... you're SO right.  With all the medical research done, someone should consider figuring out a way to get a solid answer just a tad more quickly.  Granted, that might not appear, at first, to be at the top of the list of priorities when deciding where all that research money is going to go but then again, that all depends on who you ask and I don't think anyone's thought to ask the ladies on this forum!!!
Lexima... Nothing!  Not a single solitary symptom!
I think that's why I'm having so much difficulty believeing it.  But apparently my mum was the same with both myself and my sister and my sister was the same with her son... she was convinced they'd mixed her test up with someone one else's until she heard the heartbeat.  Well that's me now... I just can't wrap my brain around it.  And I'm most definitely one of those who firmly beleived one would just KNOW.  FIRMLY believed it.  
Now, in hindsight, I can say I seem to be needing the loo more often than usual but that might be because I'm drinking a lot because my mouth is very dry.  Don't know if that's got anything to do with any of this... but I did see a post where someone asked if thirst was a symptom and several ladies said it was for them.  I don't feel thirsty per se... I just feel a need to drink because my mouth is very dry.  kind of in the same way as when you're taking decongestant tablets... you know that feeling?
Now I just can't WAIT for the next day and half to go by so I can re-test!!!!!!!!!

[ms320]

Hope the next 36 hours fly by for you. Please keep us updated.

[Lexima]

Hmm, I think I read the instructions 100 times before I took the first injection.  I'm always afraid of getting side affects or something else.  Like I alwasy freak out that there are air bubbles in the meds, but bec follistim is subcutateous, RE told me that even if there is a tiny bubble nothing will happen.

Anyways if I remember instructions correctly if you dial past your dose you can to keep dialing in the same direction until you hit the max, at that point you can collapse it back to it's original point without loosing any meds.
When is your next u/s? They cycle is not neccesarily wasted.  did you talk to you doc about the dose that you injected.  They might ask you to come in earlier for an u/s to see what's going on, at that point they can see if you have to increase or decreas the dose.  How big a cartridge did you have? just in case you might want to order additional cartridge and I think they come in 300IU, 600IU and 900IU

So just stay calm, I'm sure the you'll pass the HSG with flying colors, and don't panic with the meds.

[fifi blue]

My retrieval was a disaster.  They got ZERO follicles.  I still don't really understand what happened.  The RE said they were cysts and not follicles, the large follicle had disappeared and the small were too small.  My own dr didn't do the retrieval but he just called and said maybe I didn't ovulate with the trigger.  I don't really know what he said, I'm so pissed off, angry, frustrated, fill in the blanks.....  He's meeting with the other RE's at the clinic on Friday and doing a case study on me!  

[ms320]

That really sucks.  I am so sorry.  I can't even imagine how you are feeling.  Just know that we are here for you if you need to vent.  Hopeefully, they will come up with some answers as to what happended so they can correct it.

Take care of yourself

Mary

[Helen72]

I am soooo sorry!  I cannot even imagine your frustration.  I bet they put you on the wrong protocol.  I can only hope that on Friday they come up with a good plan for you.

[magda_s]

So sorry and I know this might not help right now because I think nothing does really when we feel this way (angry and frustrated) but maybe, just maybe, the fact that it came to head this way to the point that they feel a need to meet to do a case study on you might work in your favour.  Perhaps now you'll get better attention and things will work better for you.  
I find that dealing with doctors is a bit like being back at school... if you can stand out from the crowd somehow and get them to notice you as an individual, it's usually a good a thing.

[HeathJo]

Well, the HSG was, for me, EXTREMELY painful, but my tubes are 100% clear and no fibroids or anything like that. Thank God! I did take Advil, but maybe I should have taken one of my old back-pain painkillers! Man, I was sweating, my cheeks got flushed, and I had to do deep breathing. Remember, I have a high tolerance for pain b/c of my neck injury, so I am not just being a baby. I guess I am just sensitive inside those parts or something. All that matters now, though, is that everything turned out OK. Thanks to all ya'll for your prayers and support.

Magda--YIPEEEEEE!!!!! I KNEW it!!! I understand your worries and doubts after all you've been through, but now is the time to celebrate! I am glad you are getting more b/w done tomorrow, just to ease your mind. You have waited long enough!

FiFi--Good Lord, I am so livid for you! Maybe you need to change doctors/clinics, if that is an option. A case study may be good in some ways, but, quite frankly, who does that benefit most--the doctors? You need to call them back with a list of very specific questions and DEMAND answers. On an emotional note, my heart is hurting for you. We are always here for you!

Mary & Lex--Thanks for your reassurances. I have a 900IU cartridge, so I think I will be OK now. I have an u/s on Saturday, so I guess we'll see if this new stuff works for me. Lex, when is your next u/s? Mary, when do you start your protocol and what is it?

Lisa--Any news on the injectables?

[Sheri1972]

Thanks for the info, HeathJo!  I'm actually a molecular geneticist, so I do have a pretty heavy background in science, but I'm no expert on reproductive biology.  I hadn't seen any solid peer reviewed studies that showed that abstaining for 5 days or so was a problem with men who had a healthy sperm count.  I did see one discussing problems when men abstain around 2 weeks, especially if they have a lower sperm count to begin with.

I guess DH is a monster! LOL!  The time we abstained for ~10 days prior, his sperm count was so high that the doctor actually walked in and shook his hand, and told him he could populate a small village! HA!

Lexima, the doctor started me out on 150 UI for 10 days.  They are monitoring me very closely, both with ultrasounds and blood tests, much to the dismay of my pocketbook!  
:(  I have to go in once every three days to be monitored.  I was just concerned about overstimulating because on 50 mg of clomid I produced 6-8 mature follies, so I'm worried the Follistim will be worse.  I asked the doctor if I did so well on clomid, what good does the Follistim do, and he answered that for some reason, Follistim produces better, healthier follies and it doesn't screw with your lining.  I'm hoping they have to dial back my dose because if I have to do this a few times, at least I'll save money on the drugs!

I had my baseline done yesterday and all the nurse said was, "Whoa. Your ovaries are going to be going nuts on this drug."  I'm not sure if that is encouraging or not!! :P

Feel free to email me if you want a cycle buddy! Looks like we're both first timers and doing this at the same time! :)  My email is kynkari @ hotmail.com (without the spaces).

Sheri

[HeathJo]

WOW--I only produced one follie on 100mg of Clomid! I am taking Femara in addition to the Follistim, so hopefully that will help, but it sounds as if you may have to plan on having multiples!!!!

I guess the abstinence issue is different depending on the doctor. If your dh has a healthy, plentiful supply after 10 days, then it obviously is not an issue for you guys. My  dh has great sperm volume/motility/morphology, but with him going too long without makes a difference. I guess everyone is different.

I always love adding new cycle buddies, and this little group we have here is awesome. Posting here is the best place to reach me, as I am always checking to see how all my cyber-buddies are. I hope you continue to post here so we can compare notes! :-)

[Lexima]

Fifi - wow I can't believe that happened, and what's even worse is that they couldn't give any concrete answers.  Definitelly press them for some answers and when you get them consult with another RE, so it doesn't happen again.

HeathJo - my next u/s and monitoring is tomorrow morning.  So by 9amEST I should know whether to continue with injections or to trigger ovulation.  I keep OPKing and havent' gotten a positive yet, but today is only CD9.  my bbs started to hurt already, and I asked RE about it yesterday she said it's a good thing, bec a hormone rises for O.

Sheri - I'm surprised they gave you such a big dose of Follistim, especially since you had a very good response to clomid.  When I was on clomid I only produced 1 follicle, but I'm responding so much better to follistim.  I'm interested to hear how many you produce on this dose.  I don't remember are you doing an IUI or IVF cycle.  

[babyalive]

Boy, I'm gone for a day and look at all that's happened!  You ladies have been busy.  Heathjo you are the posting/research queen!  Thanks for all the info.  I've really been wondering about follies, sizes whats good, bad, and how many are considered good/bad, etc.

Fifi -  I am SOOOO very sorry!!  I can't believe what you have been through.  I can imagine what you must be feeling!  Please vent, unload, rant we can take it and you probably need to get it out!! My prayers are really with you!

HeathJo- So sorry for you also about the HSG pain.  Everyone seems to react differently.  At least the procedure is short lived and you shouldn't have any residual pain like I had, thank goodness.  Boy, it seems things are really moving full steam ahead for you!  I can not wait to read your BFP post soon!

Magda: Wow, I am so very happy for you!  I remember a post from you back sometime Nov. or earlier?  I can't believe you got your BFP. Congratulations!

Empty - lots, and lots of ladies post BFPs with just one tube -  so I have really high hopes for you.

Helen/Mary - Things really seem to be moving forward for both of you as well.  You will be remembered in my prayers tonight.  I'm starting my BFP chant for you now...BFP, BFP, BFP....

Well, I can't write much more, I'm having some non-fertility related pain.  Almost left work early today and just wanted to come home and take a pain killer and go to bed.  I have some neck issues, (Heathjo - I'm sure you can relate) and every now and then, it just kicks me in the arse.  I can't even raise my head from my pillow.  Forget trying to turn from side to side while teaching. But, I wanted to check in with you ladies and I thought I would update you on injectables before laying down.  My dr. wants to wait one more cycle.  He wants to try Clomid one more month.  Because my RE isn't a part of my HMO, it gets complicated in terms of who and where I do monitoring, get medicines and so on.  So my dr. wants to try Clomid one more cycle which gives us time to work out all the particulars for the following cycle if need be.  

Well, I've gotta take a darn pain killer and lay down now.  Thanks for indulging me ladies.  I'll try not to whine too much next time!!!

Lisa

[ms320]

Lisa:  Thanks for your good thoughts.  Sorry to hear about your non-fertility related pain.  Sometimes I forget that such things still exist.  

If you don't mind my unsolicited advise, one of the best things for any type of neck pain is the use of moist heat.  I recommend a cervical hot pack (Chattanooga makes them) rather than a plain heating pad.  Put it it a pot of boiling water for a few minutes, wrap it in several layers of towels, and place it around your neck.  Usually stays hot for 30 minutes and really helps to calm things down.  If you have a specific issue, let me know and I'll see if I can be of any assistance.  Feel better

[babyalive]

Thanks Mary.  Actually, heat can sometimes make it worse.  I use ice and heat alternating sometimes, or just ice.  However when it gets this bad I just try to medicate and stay as still as possible.  It does worry me a bit because the pain radiates down my shoulders and arms and I am virtually unable to sit up without help.  YES, I too sometimes forget anything unrelated to fertility can exist!  I'm sure I'll be over it in a day or two.  Thank you for your advise. Unsolicited advise from cyber buddies ALWAYS welcome!!  (-:

[HeathJo]

That radiating pain pattern is exactly like what I experienced with my herniated disc at c6-c7, but I also had sciatica as well. I am concerened because eventually, my arm became paralyzed for a time and I could not even write. Have you had any imaging (MRI, CT Myleogram) done lately?

I used to use alternating heat and ice as well, and then just meds and laying still (as possible). This similarity worries me as well, as it got to a point where I could literally not sit,stand, or lay down without writhing in pain--but that was after years of no treatment. My point is, just stay on top of this and all your  other health needs while TTC. Mary is a Physical Therapist, so she can be a great resource for you.

I am glad you are looking ahead to the next two cycles. You seem much more at peace and resolved than a few weeks ago. I am so glad you aren't giving up/being forced to give up due to lack of resources. I am chanting BFP for YOU my friend.

Take care of yourself, body, mind and spirit--you hear me young lady??? Don't make me fly out there. . .

[Lexima]

Good, just got back from the clinic.  Kind of feel like a turkey that's ready to come out of the oven, but I guess in a good way.  So my follicle inventory is as follows:
Right - 21,20,18,17.5,17, 2x16
Left - 18,17, 2x16
RE was very impressed and said it's a very good cycle.  And my lining was 14.  Does it seem like too many for you?
Tonight I'll be checking OPK one more time and if no surge I inject a trigger shot and go for IUI on Friday.  If OPK is positive then IUI is tomorrow.

They have also suggested to obstain from bd for 2 days, but we haven't done anything since Monday so they said we should bd today, just to make sure that fresh supply is released fo IUI.

[babyalive]

Wow Lexima that sounds terrific!!  With those numbers you've got an excellent chance for a BFP this cycle.  Wowsa!!

[Lexima]

Thanks Lisa, I will try to stay positive this month and as relaxed as possible.
I think that this cycle gives me most chances so far.  My first cycle on injections was also good but we didn't do IUI just bd, and when we did do IUI I only had 1 follicle.

Milana

[ms320]

Wow, those seem like great follicle numbers.  Looks like things are going well for you

Mary

[Helen72]

Lexima,
Many clinics would cancel IUI with that many follies due to very high possibility of multiples.  I heard someone on this forum saying about clinic canceling IUI with more than 5 follies.  You should do what feels right to you.  Like Lisa said, you may be our next success BFP story!

Lisa,
I hope you are feeling better today.  Take care of yourself.

[Lexima]

I heard of that, I also heard that people turn canceled IUI cycles into IVF cycles.
RE wasn't concerned, and I will take a chance and move ahead with an IUI, and hope for the best.

[Helen72]

I am so excited for you!  Seems like everything goes your way this month.  
Also, you will be able to relax during this 2ww since you are taking a vacation which many people say helps.  
We are all rooting for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lexima]

Ohh thank you so so much.
Yep, the second week of 2ww I will be on a cruise.  I'm definitelly booking a massage, and I also want to see if they have any medetation on yoga classes, I've never tried that before and if they offer it for free I'd definitelly like to try it.

AF would be due the day after we come back.  I hope she gets lost somewhere in mexico. :)

[fifi blue]

Best of luck to you with your IUI.  Your numbers look terrific.  I'll be praying for you.
f.

[Sheri1972]

Hello!

I'm doing IUI.  Frankly, I can't afford IVF, so if it comes to that, we'll probably try to adopt.  My insurances doesn't cover any fertility drugs or treatments, so it's all out of pocket.  Ouchies!

I was surprised my doc put me on 150 UI of Follistim too!  He said that if he put me on a really low dose, it wouldn't be any different than clomid, and he could watch me carefully and adjust accordingly, so I suppose we'll have to see.  He did tell me that multiples was very likely, given I got pregnant with twins on 50 mg of clomid several years ago.  That's also stressing me out... of course I'm happy to have whatever I can, but I had some complications with the last pregnancy, and if I get pregnant with 3 or 4, I don't know what I'll do!!

My mother is currently freaking out over the multiple issue, and I'm freaking out that it won't work at all, so everyone is freaking out. :P

I started the Follistim last night, and I felt like I was building a Russian space station! LOL!  I was so terrified I was going to shoot medication out the end of the needle, which costs roughly $1,0000000 an ounce, that I was OCD about it.  I finally got it injected and it sorta burned!

Sheri

[Lexima]

I honestly though you would say that you're going for an IVF at least then the high dose can probably be explainable.  When is your first monitoring apt?  inlike 4-5 days or so?  I can't wait to hear how you and HeathJo are progressing.

My RE office constantly warn me about multiples I guess they just want to cover their a** so I don't sue them for misinformation or something.  So I understand the risk, and I would be OK with twins, but I don't think I can handle more than that.  At my initial apt, RE discussed "fetal reduction", which freaks me out, but she said if it's more than 2, bec of my small frame they would wait until 8 weeks and would reduce it to 2.  I didn't even want to think about that, how would I ever be able to make such decision.  So I guess I'll deal with it if I have to but for now I'm just hoping for at least one.  I've never gotten pg before and we've been ttc for almost 2.5 years.  My friend has twins they are great kids so when I look at them it really doesn't seem that bad.

I only inject in my thighs I just don't feel comfortable about the belly, so the first 2 months were fine not pain, I guess bec the thighs were "fresh" the last 2 moths I seem to be hitting a muscle or an old injection site and it hurts like hell.  I'm done with Follistim for this month, only have Ovidrel left for tonight.

[Sheri1972]

Hello!  My first appointment is Friday, and I started last night.  He is checking me every third day with ultrasounds and blood tests.

Twins would run me ragged, as I'm no spring chicken (I'm 36), but I could handle them. More than that, and I'm worried that there would be severe complications with the babies.  I got pregnant with twins the first time, but one of the twins stopped developing around 13 weeks.  I had placenta previa, and my son was restricted in utero because I guess I have a small uterus. He was only 5 lbs, 4 oz full term!

He STILL hasn't grown, either! He's nearly 4 and wears size 18 month pants that I have to pin at the waist, and 12 month shirts!

Sheri

[magda_s]

Just wanted to say that I think you're right to go with the IUI since you can and your RE won't try to persuade you not to.  I wish you the VERY best of luck and enjoy your cruise... I'm sure it'll do you a world of good and at the very least, help to take your mind off obsessing.  
magda

[Lexima]

Thanks Magda.
Did you do another blood test yet?

[Lexima]

Hi guys I just posted another thread.  If you have any advice for me Please please help.  here is what I wrote:

Hi All, desperatelly  need your help.  
I'm on a follistim cycle and had a great response to the meds, today I was supposed to trigger O, and come in for IUI on Friday.  I just received a voice mail from my RE with some bad news.  After they did my blood, my estrogen level is very hight 1354(what ever that means), therefore I run a risk of getting OHSS.  RE was actually very good explaining some of the symptoms and gave me options.  My other option is to cancel IUI.  Her personal option was to precede as planned because I had a good number of follicles.  Obviously there is no way to predict if I get OHSS for sure and how mild or severe it would be.

So please please help.  DH is not home yet, but if anyone experienced this before please indicate how bad was it?  She said it might last a week and go away on it's own.  On other thing she is that if I decide to cancel IUI, we should obstain from bd or use a condom, bec she doesn't want me to get pg.  What is that supposed to mean?  it's too late to call them back.

[HeathJo]

I posted some info for you on your other thread, but just wanted to say I am praying for you. :-)

Do you have any OHSS symptoms?

[Lexima]

Hi thanks I saw your post.
Nope not really, ever since I started follistim this cycle I been feeling a bit crampy just like O cramps, it actually got better over the last few days.  I might be a bit nauseaus this evening, but maybe it's just in my head all the nerves.

Anyways I took the Ovidrel shot so there is no going back.  Now just gotta wait and see what happens.  
We still have to bd tonight in order to have a fresher load for Friday.

For now dh is researching other fert. clinic in the are, might go for second opinion after vaca.  What pisses me of is that RE tests me every other day, didn't they see that estrogen was on the higher side on Monday??? Come on this is not the first time they are screwing up my cycle.  If they would've reduced my dose I might've been ok.  Oh well what happened, happened there is no way going back now.

[ms320]

I am so sorry to hear what you have been going through.  I would take some comfort in the fact that your RE wants to proceed.  I think canceling now would be a difficult choice for you, as you would always wonder "what if"  Also, knowing how often REs cancel procedures makes me think that your RE believes the chances of conception are good.

I don't really have anything else to offer in terms of OHSS as HeathJo and Helen seemed to cover everything I know.  

I'll be praying for you

Mary

[babyalive]

I am so sorry for what you are going through.  I don't know much about Follistim, Ovidrel, or OHSS so I don't have any advise for you other than I agree with Mary that if your RE wants to proceed that should be a good sign.  My what BS that the clinic is just now considering this, as you said they've been monitoring you all along.  Boy, sometimes I really think RE's and clinics do so much fertility that it becomes so routine they forget how important each and every cycle is to us!! You will be in my prayers tonight! Keep us posted.


Anyone been in contact with Annabrita?

[HeathJo]

Good--I am glad you are moving forward, and VERY GLAD you are looking into other clinics. These people have f***ed up enough, already, and on your dime!

Excuse the curse, but it makes me MAD!!!!

But, for right now, I think you should just relax and proceed with the babymaking! It may end up that this is the month for you, my friend.

SSBD :-)

[magda_s]

Oh God, oh God, oh God... plea-ea-ea-ease don't let this be a bad sign.  Okay... trying REALLY hard not to lose it at the moment but I'm in one of those strange places where you suddenly become hyper-superstitious and just want to break down and cry even before you know what's actually happening... Hate to get into the icky details but just went to the loo and although I'm not spotting there definitely must be some blood there because my urine has a slight red tinge to it.  I keep reminding myself that I've been told that a little bleeding isn't unusual but it's not helping because when I woke up this morning I was all sweaty and I put it down to the temperature having gone up a bit more than usual but in reality, I get all sweaty in the night every month just before AF shows her ugly face.
I did go and do the second blood test this morning... and this is where the superstition kicks in... well, last night I drove around to 5 different pharmacies to find a HPT just so I could SEE something concrete and I couldn't find a single one and of course I start wondering what's going on... this is obviously a sign... and I calmed myself down thinking it wasn't important, and I'd be getting all the proof I wanted the next morning when I do the second b/t and see those numbers skyrocketting.  But now I'm freaking out and I have to wait another 3 hours before I get the result.
worst of all, what with it being only 9:30am here, you're all probably fast asleep!!!!
Not going to work... going to lie in bed all day.
k... well... continuing to type isn't going to make me feel any better so I guess I'd better go.

[Lexima]

Good Morning,
Magda I responded to your other post, hope you're taking it easy.  But the numbers are doubling so that's really good.  How many days post transfer are you?

So I think I'm feeling OK this morning, no major symptoms or discomforts.  A big bloated, a bit crampy, but nothing that I don't experience during O.  bbs are really sore for this time of the month, so that's probably the result of hight estrogen.

Thank you all for your support and suggestions.  I couldn't have done it without you.

[HeathJo]

Magda--I am going to go read your other post, but it sounds as if the numbers doubled, and that is what should be happening. I don't blame you for being paranoid--I am sure I will be the same way!!! Just try to relax as much as you can, for the sake of you and your baby/babies.

Lexima--I think you are going to be just fine. Yes, high estrogen levels do cause sore bbs, but if you had OHSS your symptoms would be pretty dang obvious. I think your doctor was just keeping you well informed about the POSSIBILITY of it due to your estrogen levels, but since she felt it was OK to go ahead, the benefits outweigh the risks. I am so sorry you had to go through this, and I hope a BFP at the end of the cycle will make it up to you :-)

[magda_s]

Lexima, Heather, thank you  both.  I have calmed down a bit but more than anything I just feel a little bit depressed because after all this and after the brief excitement of a BFP, now I'm being told that this is a "VERY delicate time" and I basically feel like the the BFP is old news and really not anything to get excited about.  I know that sounds terrible and I know that I'm extraordinarily lucky to have gotten this BFP on only my second IVF attempt but now I feel like it's a matter of living with the knowledge that it might be taken away from me.
BTW Lexima, I'm now 16DPT.
I think I'll be going in for another b/t after tomorrow.
Just to top it all off, my pharmacist today asked me which lab I've been going to and when I told him he said it was a terrible lab and the doc there has a very bad reputation!!!  I don't know how wrong one can be with something like this and I have no way of knowing if there's any truth to this but I want to go to another lab now just to get a 'second opinion' and also because I want to make sure those numbers are still rising.
Boy, you'd think that with all we go through, when we get a BFP, we could enjoy it... but no-o-o-o-o-o-o-o....
The cherry on the icing is the whole having to accept that it is likely only the one and much as I will be grateful for the rest of my life, it breaks my heart to think my child won't have a sibling.  
However, we can't have it all can we... I'd best just be grateful for what I can get.
night night ladies... off to bed with me... I'm knackered after today!!!

[HeathJo]

OMG girl, you are SOOOOOO pregnant!!! Your hormones are driving you nuts, and it is kind of cute from the outside, but I am sure no fun for you with all of the worrying. Your mind is racing, and you are already becoming a MaMa Bear protecting her cubs!

Get a second opinion on the lab to ease your mind, and STOP ASSUMING THE WORST! Thinking negatively draws negativity to you. You have no way of knowing if you have one or more babies roasting in there. I mean, in this country they would not have even placed that many embies for fear of having a litter!!!

I know it is easier said than done, and you are used to disappointment, but try to be grateful and calm. grateful and calm, grateful and calm. . .keep chanting that until you feel it!

:-) Heather

[Helen72]

Please don't be disappointed with low numbers.  Those numbers have to start somewhere!  The important thing is that HCG #'s keep going up.  Also, don't be disappointed about not having twins.  First, you don't know that yet!  Second, a child is a great blassing all of us here are ready to kill for.  I am sure that your child will be happy to have a mother like youself and will not blame you for not producing a sibling.

Getting a second opinion is a good idea.  What harm can that do?  The more information you have the better!

[ms320]

Please don't let the fact that the numbers are low make you crazy.  They are doubling and that is the important thing.  People worry about low numbers because they are afraid they are on the way down, yours are on the way up.  Plus, I agree with Hather that your hormones are kicking in.  Buckle your seatbelt, it could be a bumpy 9 months.

Good luck, and keep thinking positively

Mary

[Sheri1972]

Hello!

Just a comment on the twin thing... I had several ultrasounds and they only saw one each time, and then in week 9 they were just finishing up an ultrasound and *I* saw a second heartbeat.  The doctor missed it!  I pointed it out and he looked shocked, and indeed, it was a second one, so you never know!  It takes some time before you can tell these things sometimes.

Sheri

[Lexima]

It's 4:35 EST, I'm still feeling ok (knock on wood, spit 3 times...).
I'm feeling very mild cramping and bloating.  I'll do the OPK when I get home, by now I should probably see a surge if I took the trigger last night.

[ms320]

Good luck Lexima.  Hope you're surging

[HeathJo]

I am so glad to hear you are feeling OK. It seems as if I feel mild cramps or O-type pain and am bloated 2-3 weeks out of every month on fertility meds! I am sure you are going to be just fine, and really think this cycle may be your BFP one!

I am sure your IUI is in the morning, and I will be thinking of you. I bet you will feel reassured after seeing the doctor. Keep us posted on how you are doing. :-)

[Lexima]

HeathJo, Mary - Hey, yes I am surging.  That's where the pain is coming from.

Thank You for all of your support.

[HeathJo]

Always, honey. :-)

Happy surging!

[Helen72]

Good luck with your IUI tomorrow!

[ms320]

Lexima:  Good luck tomorrow.  

Lisa:  How is your neck feeling?


I had an infuriating dinner tonight.  Went out with two girls I used to work with, not extremely close friends, but friends.  One of the girls has a three year old daughter, and the other girl is pregnant via IVF after three years of TTC, and two failed IVF cycles. (I am extremely happy for her)  Neither know of my plight, but my pregnant friend hasmade no secret of her difficult journey.  The woman with the 3 year old blurts out that she wants to have another baby, but is "afraid" because she TTC last month and didn't get pregnant.  Of course she said her daughter was conceived during the same cycle that they decided to start trying.  The quote was "we only had to have sex once to conceive _____"  It took everything I had not to jump across the table and break her neck like a chicken bone.  Granted, she doesn't have any idea what I am going through, but she knows I have no children. Why would she assume that being childless is my choice.   Furthermore, she knows very well that the other woman had an extremely difficult time getting pregnant. They are acrually good friends.
WHAT"S WRONG WITH PEOPLE?

Anyway, just needed to vent to my Alpha sisters.  DH works an overnight shift on Thursday, so he will be spared my foul mood.  Lucky him

[Helen72]

Mary,
your friend is very inconsiderate!  I am sorry you had to hear that.  I did mention that many people like to flaunt their fertility into other people's faces.  I have a friend who always tells me that it only took one try.  However, she knows nothing about my struggles.  In your friend's case I believe that the woman lacks empathy.

[babyalive]

Life's simple little pleasures.......I just finished consuming one of the best dinners and am reeling from shear joy.  Boston Market's Turkey Breast Medallions in a Cranberry Relish with a side of sweet potato casserole....yum!!  

OK, I just had to detour us from ttc for a moment and remember the little pleasure that used to bring us joy.  (-:

Lexima!!!! Sooooo excited for you for tomorrow!!  Sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle you know what blowing your way!!!!

Mary, Oh my what insensitivity!!  My sisters both are ALWAYS telling me, "boy, the women in our family get pregnant at the drop of a hat.   I got pregnant the 1st night I tried, every time. I can't believe it hasn't happened for you yet!"   They don't even think about this as being insensitive but it just comes out of there mouths.  I'm sorry you  had to endure that.

I just finished completing the forms for my ds at the new clinic. I need to go to KINKOs tonight and fax them the info.  I'm kind of excited since I can see photos of the donors, listen to audio recording of their voices and get a list of "staff impressions" on them.  HOWEVER, even though the actual samples are less expensive than what I've been paying, it will end up costing me more because they charge $200.00 shipping, and then the clinc that's recieving the sample, charges me a $100.00 receiving fee and a $50.00 shelving fee.  So, this sample is going to cost me close to $1000.00!!!   YIKES.  

The neck is much better.  Still a little stiff, but defintely returning to normal.

HeathJo - don't you have an u/s coming up?

Magda - hang in there.  Things are looking good, your numbers are doubling and it's so early!  Please don't worry.

[HeathJo]

Mary--that is tacky, tacky, tacky. I mean, if your pregnant friend has made her struggles public, that is almost an intentional pot-shot. Adding to that, she is in the company of someone she knows is over 35 and has no kids, so it wouldn't be a stretch for her to contemplate that maybe that is not your choice. Either she is a total ***** or has no social etiquette, or is just plain so self-absorbed that she looks at ya'lls situations and wonders aloud if--GOD FORBID--it won't take one month next time! Good God women can be catty! MEEEOOOOW! (HISS)

Put some EXLax in her dessert next time--that'll get her out of your face, and fast!

Lisa--Jeez, that is a lot of $$$! But at least you have access to it. And, yes, my u/s is Saturday morning. I am nervous about what to expect. I ovultaed on Clomid and on my own, with 1 follicle each time. Now that I am taking Femara and injectables, I am worried that I will still have only 1 follicle, or have too many!! I have tried to research what a 'normal" response to this combination of meds would be, or even just one alone, and can't find any consistent data. I guess I will just have to wait and see . . .which I hate!
I'm glad you're feeling better.

[magda_s]

Ladies... what can I say... thank you all SO very much.  Heather, you almost had me in tears and frankly, all I can say is "from your mouth to God's ear".  Here I go again... I have tears in my eyes just trying to say that I so hope you;re right about just being hormonal.  
This morning wasn't much better because I had the same happen again but it was very dark traces of blood.  Unfortunately it was too early to call my doc so I had to wait and stew... but I did have the foresight to think, 'dark blood' = 'old blood'... perhaps this is just residue from yesterday.  And that's what my doc said when I finally spoke with him.
I've had some mild pain which, of course, worries me... but I am going to go and do the b/t again tomorrow.  If that's still doubled, I will feel a whole hell of a lot better.
And Helen, you're right about one child being a blessing most of us would kill for... of course, you're right and as I've said, if it has to be one, then that's just FINE.  I'm not normally one to believe in things being "meant to be" but I find in this case, I'm willing to accept that whether I get one or two if really in God's hands and I remind myself that even people who conceive naturally don't always end up with the number of children they want.  
Mary, you're friend obviously has NO idea but I have to say, in her defence, we can't expect people who don't have personal experience with this to have even an inkling of an idea what it's like.  You would think that they might have the decency to accept that they don't understand and to just keep their mouths shut but... in an ideal world, there would be no hunger either.  Easy for me to say as I haven't had to deal with inconsiderate friends saying stupid things, but what can we do but ignore them or stay away from them.
Actually I've read a lot of people who've commented on the same sort of thing and I'm just curious, has anyone ever tried politely pointing out the insensitivity to the offending party?? I wonder if maybe they'd feel terrible at not having realised.  Maybe it's something they're used to commenting about with other friends who've had children etc and they just never stopped to think.  Failing that, the ExLax is always worth a shot!!!
Lexima, how are you doing???
Good luck with your u/s Heather!

[Sheri1972]

Well, I had my first blood tests and ultrasound today after starting Follistim.  I had 10 freaking follicles, most of which are pretty decent sized.  I've only taken the stuff for 3 days!!!  I think OHSS could be in my future... or a minivan!  LOL!

I'm not sure what the blood test numbers mean, nor have I gotten them yet, but my doc said he'll probably lower my dose a little after he sees what the blood tests say. Do any of you know the borderline for what's considered high estrogen?  I certainly FEEL like my estrogen is through the roof!

Mary, that was insensitive of your friend, but if she's typically a nice girl that wouldn't say something hurtful, I'd cut her a break.  Sometimes we make mistakes and say really stupid things when we're just having a chat, and don't mean to offend at all.  I've had people say some really dumb things to me, and I know their intent is good, so I try not to take it too hard.  I know I certainly have said really stupid, insensitive things at times, and was HORRIFIED after I realized what I had done.  If it really hurt your other friend's feelings, I hope she gently says something to her and it likely won't happen
again.

You know the comment I hate the most?  "Well, at least you already have one, so if this doesn't work, you should be thankful for that."

Of course I'm thankful that I was able to conceive my son, but when people say that it implies that I'm not going through the same pain as anyone else suffering infertility, and I should stop whining because I have one kid.  I feel deep sympathy for those who haven't had the joy yet of having a little one, believe me.  That doesn't mean that I'm not suffering myself.  

The other thing I hate is, "Perhaps it is meant to be that you not have any more children."

What was meant to be is that I have NO children!  Modern science helped me change that, so I don't care for it when people imply I should stop trying to control my own fate.

That being said, nobody ever means any harm.  I guess it's just up to us to educate them about infertility, and what women suffer when going through it, right? :)

Btw, Lexima, good luck with your IUI, Heather good luck with your U/S and hang in there magda!

Sheri

Sheri

[Lexima]

Hi Guys,
Just got to work from my IUI, had to wait forever probably 1h15min till sample was washed.  When they finally took me, the doc was very impressed she said that it's the best sample of the day even more than they require.  Dh's count was 55mil.  and we only obstained for one day.  So now counting my supply of eggs and his sperm what have I gotten myself into :), but I'll hope that I did get into something.  Now just gotta wait and see.

I also asked her whether I'm out of the woods with this OHSS, and she said that she's seen cases when symptoms start a week late.  that's not making me feel better at all, but I guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed that everything will be fine.

Sheri - you're so funny, that's how I feel now do I see a minivan in my future?  I'm not sure what's the min or max or estrogen, I was not able to find it on line, but mine was 1354 and she said it was high.  

Magda - all I can say is hang in there, but to me you sound so hormonal, keep us posted.

Lisa - that is so interesting that you get to see their pictures and hear voice, I thought that the process was totally confidential.

Mary - I agree what everyone said.  I hate when people to do that, meaning freak out after they don't get pg in the first month.  How ignorant can they be.  My very close friend got pg in the very first month of trying 3 years ago, and she keeps on insisting that she has no clue how it happened.  Doooohhhh.  Anyways I don't want to get into this, I'm staying positive during this 2ww.  Happy thoughts....happy though.....

[ms320]

Lexima:  I am glad things went well.  Hopefully, minivan sales will increase dramatically this year and revive the failing economy.  I agree with what you said about staying positive.  I too have vowed to no longer allow other people's ignorance and insensitivity to set me off.  I guess I took it too personally, for both myself and my pregnant friend.  Sorry for ranting, I just can'c control myself sometimes.

[babyalive]

Mary, Mary rant away!  We all get our turn and you needed yours!  

Just got off the phone from my dr. and I am finally getting my trigger shot!!!!  They are calling it into the pharmacy right now!!  

I'm a little concerned about the u/s monitoring though.  Because the cd that I will most likely need the trigger may fall on a weekend.  My clinic doesn't do u/s on the weekend.  Don't you need to do the trigger the same day as your u/s based on what the u/s shows?

[Lexima]

Completely understood, when one of my friends told us that she is pg in dec, she told it to my best friend first, but then she tried to call me. left vm.  I dreaded returning her calls.  Took me probably 3 days to mentally prepare before I called her back to congratulate her.  That's basically the last of my close friends to get pg, that's another reason why it hit me hard.  And guess what...it worked on the first try.  And for the first 3 months she was freaking out bec she wasn't ready.

[Lexima]

Lisa - If they can do an u/s a day before and determine the size, they'll just instruct you to take a trigger the next day, bec they can estimate how big the follicles will be by then.  That's what happened to me in December.  

[magda_s]

Lexima, Lisa and Sheri, you all sound so upbeat and positive... I have everything crossed for you.
As for me... hormonal???  whatever gave any of you THAT impression!
oooofffff... I can't tell you how many times today I have stopped to wonder how my DH is supposed to live with me over the next few months when I can hardly stand to be around mySELF!!!  The latest drama is that after the dark blood of this morning, all was well until tonight when over the last couple of hours my belly has become very bloated and there's been a little discomfort and worst of all my lower back hurts so of course I'm convinced, this is it, I'm going to get my period.  At which point, DH points out that I can't because I'm pregnant.  God, I wish *I* believed that!!!!
Although, that said, it did make me wonder about something... I actually have no idea what it's like if things go wrong?  Am I right in thinking I could be getting my period?  Or does one not actually get a period per se when one is pregnant?  Would it be more accurate to say I might have a m/c and if so, does anyone know if it feels like a period?  For me, lower back pain is a definite period symptom.  Then again, so are sore boobs and hot sweats at night and I have neither of those but i DO have a bad back... hmmmm...
As for the belly ache, my DH says he feels the same and thinks, much as he loves me, that both our belly aches are a result of lunch rather his being any kind of sympathy pain due to mine!!!

[Sheri1972]

Well, my estradiol level came back.  I'm on day 6 of my cycle and the number is 279, so I don't know what that means...I guess that's a bit high?  They reduced my dose to 100 IU of Follistim until Monday and are going to check me again.

Lordy, I hope I don't O early! Maybe I should hold DH down for some BD this weekend just in case!

Sheri

[Lexima]

I guess every body is different, but what I noticed is that without the meds most of the time I O on CD16.  Last cycle they couldn't get my dose right, I started out very low, therefore it took much longer for follicles to mature I ended up Oing on CD16 again the same day when I was supposed to give myself a trigger shot.

What were the sizes of your follicles?
if you find estrogen levels and norms somewhere on line let me know, I couldn't find it anywhere, but I wanted to understand how high is mine (1354) for this time in the cycle.

[HeathJo]

Lex & Sheri: I read somewhere yesterday that for each mature follicle, estrogen levels are btween 200-300. So, if you have one follie, your estrogen level would be between 200-300, two follies 400-600 and so on. Now, that is just an average, and follies grow an average of 2mm a day, and continue to grow until they are released, so don't freak thinking you can determine how many follies you have by this number definitively: it is just a guideline. Things sound GREAT for you both: one or both of you will have a BFP this month, I am sure :-)

Magda--I have read on this site and others that AF symptoms mirror pg symtoms (symptoms) in the early stages, which is why the 2ww can be so maddeining. If lower back pain is the only symptom you have, I'd say you can bet it is a pg sign. Plus, spotting is cery common in early pregnancy. In fact, some women spot for the first few months, and others even have a period for several months while pg! But, have you thought about he fact that this blood could be implantation bleeding? Especially with your chance of multiples, perhaps two or three could be implanting, and they wouldn't do so all at once, so the bleeding could last a few days. Your hormones will settle down a bit after some time passes and you get more confirmation on your pregnancy.

Mary--You can vent here anytime, and you know that! :-)

Lisa--Lex is right, if your doctor is calling it in he knows what is going on. Did he tell you when to inject it? Remember that it takes an average of 36 hours for ovulation to occur after the shot is administered. Your IUI should be scheduled for that time frame. Have they scheduled the IUI yet? What did your last u/s show in terms of follies and size?

Helen--We are both on cd9, I believe. What is your next step? I have my u/s tomorrow: I sure hope my follies look as good as Lexima's and Sheri's!!!!

[Lexima]

HeathJo - best of luck tomorrow at the u/s.  I can't wait to hear how your're progressing, but I'm sure you'll do great

[ms320]

HeathJo:   Good luck at the u/s tomorrow.  Hope you have great follies.

[HeathJo]

Thanks guys, I am a bit apprehensive. I have been having O-type pains on both sides, so I hope that is a positive sign something will happen more than one follicle. I will post as soon as I can with the reults! Again, you have no idea how much your support means to me. ((HUGS))

[babyalive]

Yes, good luck Heathjo!!  I'm sure you've got some wonderful, beautiful follies developing.  I have no doubt you'll have more than one follie.  Injectables are so much stronger than Clomid.  

Lexima - Your numbers sound really good.  Last time I had Estradiol checked it was 60 - you're putting my numbers to shame!  I'm hoping, praying, wishing this IUI is as full of babydust as a winter snow storm. (Bad similie I know but it's all I could come up with)  (-:
I have heard that an RE will sometimes cancel IUI's if there are more than 3 follies.  I'm a little confused about this number now, given how many follies you have.  What has your dr. told you about follie numbers and IUI in terms of what is typical?  And what happens if you have like 5 or 6 mature follies that are fertilized?  I'm asking because I'm now wondering if 3 is a low #, it's what I had last cycle.  Regardless, I have really good feelings about this cycle for you.  I too thought donor sperm was so confidential.  I was so surprised to  just stumble on this website a week or so ago.  It makes me almost glad for all the BFN's because now I have SO much more info. on the DNA I'm potentially passing on.    


Magda - No need to assume your going to have a m/c.  Better to assume this is going to be a beautiful, wonderful 9 month journey and at the end you'll be rocking your beautiful baby in your arms.  To think is to create.  Think the best.

The benefits department of my health insurance called me tonight to tell me that the ovidrel injection will be $140.00.  BUT, if I ask my dr. to refer me to an outside specialist to do the injection, then my insurance will cover it as an office visit, just a $10.00 co-pay!  Isn't that odd!  I can give the shot to myself and they'll charge me $140.00 for the prescript.  Or, I can have them schedule me an appt. with a specialist, outside of my carrier and it'll just cost $10.00 for the office visit.  Very strange. But, that's what they are telling me to do.  However, don't you need the trigger in the evening?  Also, again what if I'll need it on the weekend?  How have you gals handled this, or how do your clinics handle it?  I'll be sending an e-mail to my dr.  and will most likely hear back late Mond. or Tues.  It makes me nervous that the cycle days just speed by and all these details are so timely.  

[magda_s]

Thanks Heather, that's good to know because thus far my lower back pain is constantly there niggling at the back of my mind.  
Lisa, you're right, I do need to think positive.  I just find I'm scared to because I know me and I'm very convincing (!!!!) so if I start thinking positive, I'll be convinced that all is well very quickly and if it isn't... well, lets just say I fall hard and once bitten... I know that's a very defeatist attitude but it's hard not to be afraid.
All that said, in good news, no blood today!  And I've been to the lab and should have my 3rd b/t result in just under 3 hours.  I'm praying for over 110 as it started at 23.2 then went to 53 so anything over 110 will make me feel GREAT!
Lisa, re your situation, this  might be very naive of me but I always thought that when it came to donor sperm, it would be exactly like what you're saying... with photos and histories and the like.  Otherwise, how on earth are you supposed to choose?  I mean, you'd have nothing to go on!  
This is somehting that at one stage we thought we might have to consider because we were told that in some cases when a vasectomy has been done a long time ago, the sperm can become damaged in some way.  And I thought that it would be exactly like this... looking at pictures of donors and reading their medical histories as well as other stuff like how they did in school or what careers they have or some such!!
Anyway, Heather, eagerly awaiting your news and here's hoping you're follies are doing brilliantly.

[magda_s]

Okay... well, it's been a really bad day and my guess is it's only going to get a whole hell of a lot worse because nothing seems to be sinking in and it's been bad enough already so I don't really think I want to know what i'm going to be like when it does sink in.
I got my results back... down from 53 to 13.  
Now I'd heard the other day that apparently the lab we've been going to has quite a bad reputation so when I got the result I ran to another lab to do another test.
Rang my doctor in th emeantim and didn't know if I wanted to kiss him or kill him because he said it seemed very strange and he had his doubts about this test and he was glad I decided to go to another lab and re-test and he said to call him when I got that result.  Well, that was only 16 and the difference is not a big deal what with it being two different labs.
Rang my doctor and I know he;s just trying to be really, really cautious but it's killing me... he wants me to continue all meds and re-test on Wednesday "just in case".
Just in case WHAT???  Two seperate labs got the same result!  It's OVER!
Why do they have to do this???  It was the same deal last time... dragging it out because it just isn't painful enough.
God... I know I'm being childish and stupid and I know he only wants to make sure there's absolutely no chance but all I can think is "let me mourn in peace... let me curl up in a dark corner... ".  This hoping that maybe just maybe there might somehow be some miracle that happens is just a bit too much to take and you know, I never considered myself a strong person when I was younger but I think I've come a long way and I've held onto the idea that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and I've been through some pretty rough **** but this, I don't think I can deal with.
It keeps hitting me in short, sharp burts and I feel like I can't catch my breath and it just hurts SO much and then I just as suddenly go back to feeling numb and thinking, well, maybe the doctor's right... maybe I'll be one of these wild success stories who gets to reassure other people that "my numbers plummeted but then they came back up and now I have a healthy 3/4/5/6/?? year old" but then I think of how that's one in a million and I tell myself to get it together and start facing up to it but I just so don't want to... I almost physically recoil from trying to think about the reality of it all.  I so desperately don't want to accept it or deal with it.  And God, I thought I should immediately start looking at dates of when we can start to try again because that might make me feel better but the thought of going through all that again is just too much.
I can't stop thinking, "If you're still there, please just hang in there kiddo," but somehow I have to accept that it's a bit too late for that... a bit very, me thinks.
Right... just needed to blurt it all out.  Think I'll go take a nap now.  Just want to turn the world off for a bit.

[Helen72]

Oh no!  I am so sorry about your numbers today.  Nothing I can say right now will make you feel any better but I just want to let you know that my heart goes out to you and your dh.  What an emotional roller coaster! I will pray for a miracle for you.
Please stay strong and take care of yourself.  

[Lexima]

OMG Magda, I can't imagine what you're going through.  Although I feel you emotions through your post.  I don't know what else to say, I'm just so so sorry you have to be in this situation, no one desesrves to go through this.  At this point for your own sake, there is nothing you can do about it.  Just leave it in God's hads.

[Lexima]

I just checked my "diary" and I started feeling O cramps around CD4-CD5, but that was mainly because ovaries were streching to fit all those follies.  During cycles when I had fewer follies, I didn't have O cramping that early.

[HeathJo]

Magda--I am heartbroken for you. I just don't get it, it's so unfair! I wish I could hug you and make you tea, and soothe you somehow. But, I can only say I have prayed and will continue to do so. ((HUGS))

My u/s went pretty well, I think. I'm cd12, and my dominant follies are:
Right ovary: 13, 14, 14 (and 2 others 10,9)
Left ovary: 13, 14.5, 15 (1 other 11)

They want me to continue with the Follistim tonight and tomorrow night, come in for an u/s Monday, and most likely trigger Monday night for an IUI Wednesday. We will BD Tomorrow and Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday to be sure we cover the bases.

I guess I have to wait and see how these follies look Monday, but they want me to trigger only when I have follies at 19mm, and they want to see 3 or 4 at that size at least. I hope I can do it!

I almost feel guilty with this news knowing what Magda is going through. . .

[Helen72]

Good job on the follies!  I know how the meds made you sick but you definitely have more than one this cycle!!!  I am so excited for you!  I hope all the pain and nausea will pay off with a BFP.

[magda_s]

Heather don't feel guilty... we all deserve whatever good we get out of all that we're doing and I'm really happy for you.  I hope all goes well over the next couple of days.
Me?  I don't realy know what to say.  I think I'm in denial.  I don't seem to be bursting into tears anymore but I feel totally, physically drained and so very numb.  I feel like I'm waiting for someone to drop a bomb... oh, no... that's already been done!!
Sorry... it's just so very painful right now... so much for not crying anymore... it's just so painful and so unfair.  
My back is a total disaster and I'm guessing this is a very overweight AF coming to visit but still, it could equally be tension.  It affects my back in a huge way.  I almost wish AF would show because no matter what I tell myself, continuing with the meds and waiting to do another test on Wed... you just can't help but nurture this little spark of hope and every time I think about it I hate myself for being so frigging stupid.  Then I think "Sod this... I'm having a glass of wine or ten" but no, can't even do that because what if...
Sorry... negativity never helped anyone, I know.  
Thank you ladies, for being there.
Heather, thanks for the hug offer... I consider it given.  I'll go get another one from my DH.
Hugs and SSBD to all.
magda

[babyalive]

Heathjo: OHHHH!!  I am so excited for you!!  I knew you would have more than one follie.  My goodness you sure do!  I can't tell you how happy I am for you.  All the bding, the number of follies, trigger and IUI.  I have a really good feeling for you this cycle.

Lexima:  You had your IUI a few days ago?  What cd are you on?  How are you feeling?

Helen:  I've lost track.  You are always sooo supportive of everyone, but I miss hearing about what is going on with you!  How are you?  Where are you in your cycle?

Magda:  Like Heathjo, I would make you some tea, sit down and just be with you, listen if you wanted to talk....wish we were there with you.  Lexima is right.  All you can do at this point is leave it in God's hands.  You've done all you could for this cycle, the rest is up to Him.   Hugs, prayers and warm thoughts your way.

[fifi blue]

Madga, I'm so sorry to hear your news.  I wish I could say something to help.  Please know that I'm praying for you and your DH.  

Heathjo, just an FYI from my own experience.  You might want to abstain from bd'ing for a day or two before IUI.  I remember bd'ing the night of trigger and DH numbers for IUI were low.  The next time around we abstained for 3 days and his numbers were very high.  

[Lexima]

HeathJo - WAY to GO!!!!  those follies sound great!!!  My clinic suggested to obstain for 2-3 days, but  no more than 4.  So we ended up obstaining for 1 day and still his results were very good.

Lisa - I had IUI yesterday RE was very exited as DH had the highest numbers of the day :) In a way I feel that this cycle gives me the most chanses so far.  The only thing we didn't do is bd last night, I wasn't feeling too good very crampy and bloated the whole day.  Today I'm better, but I still keep thinking whether OHSS will catch up with me. RE said she's seen when people get it a week later after trigger.  I'll hope not.  Anyways today I'm CD12, 1DPIUI.  I'm supposed to start progesterone tomorrow.

[babyalive]

Lexima:  That sounds great!   This should be a very good cycle for you as well.  Perhaps we'll have plethora of BFP posts for Valentine's Day!   I'm certainly including you in my prayers that OHSS stays far, far away and BFP sticks close by!

Fifi:  How are you doing?  You've been on my mind lately.

[Helen72]

How are you doing?  Did your clinic figure out what went wrong?  How are they suggesting to proceed?  Did they do a case study and go through your records?  Sorry for all these questions but after putting you through such hell your clinic should at least give you some personalized attention and a new successful cycle.

[HeathJo]

Thanks for your support, guys. I am hoping that the follies on the:
right:currently 13,14,14 will be at 17,18,18 by Monday morning, so that when I trigger Monday night and they relase 36 hours later they will be around 21,22,22 at LEAST for the Wednesday IUI.
left:currently 13,14.5,15 will be at 17,18.5,19 by Monday Morning and 21,22.5,23 for the Wednesday IUI.
(using the formula that follies grow around 2mm a day)
So hopefully after my Monday appt I can check this post back and see if I made it, because I should be triggering that night, and hope my estimates are accurate so I can have an idea of the final follie size when they drop. (I don't get u/s Wed before IUI, I don't think).

I am also concernred about Fiona (fifi), Maria (vingulf), Annabritta and empty. I will post a thread for them to come here!

[empty]

Dear Magda,

I am so sorry for your terrible news. I send many hugs your way and please vent all you want. I cannot beleive this is happening to you.

HeathJo - thanks for looking for me. I have just been trying to just work out my feelings. If i dont get a BFP this month i will IUI. I say this month because i am ovulating in the good side and have been BDing regularly and temping - so giving it all i got really. Just entered my TWW and am not at 5dpo.

Good to hear all is going well for you :)

[magda_s]

Lisa, empty, thank you.  Thanks everyone.
It's the next morning here and like last time this feels so strange and surreal.  It's a beautiful, bright, sunny day morning and I feel like you do when someone's just died and you know the world is carrying on but you feel like you're just not a part of it.  It's funny... I feel like there's this ball of rage churning inside me but I'm just too miserable for it to be able to touch me.
I can't believe I'm actually about to go to work.  It almost feels a silly thing to do.
I just desperately need to get the next few days over with.  I need wednesday to roll around so I can go do the test and be done with this.  Much as I consciously do not want to have any hope, it's there... so help me, it is.  If I can just get this done with then I can figure out how to go see my doctor.  Not easy as my DH's middle daughter (she's 23) is coming to visit for the first time since we were married and it's all very delicate so we don't want to tell her what's happened.  No point in making her uncomfortable when she's making an effort.  But I want to go see him so I can figure out the next step.  This might sound very selfish when obviously having a child is the priority but I hate how much I've missed out on for nothing... I had an opportunity to go to Hong Kong and visit friends but couldn't do it, I could have gone to visit my sister with my DH when he went a few days ago but I couldn't fly because it was risky... pfffff... now I have a business trip to Delhi coming up and my sister wants to come with me but I might not make that depending on what the next step is and the timing.  And my sister wants to come and visit but there's not a lot of point if I'm in stuck in bed in Lebanon during the week she can make it out here!
Like I said, it sounds shallow and I give it all up willingly for a baby but it makes me angry when it's for nothing.  I know, I know.  It's hardly a trade off or a deal... I'll give up x, y and z, if I can have 1 girl and 1 boy please!!!!!!!
I keep trying to tell myself that God knows what he's doing and maybe if this hasn't worked out it's because when it does work out it will be better for whatever reason... and I try to look at the positive side and tell myself that maybe next time I'll get my twins!
Anyway, I'd best go get dressed.
Good luck ladies, to one and all.

[magda_s]

Lisa, empty, thank you.  Thanks everyone.
It's the next morning here and like last time this feels so strange and surreal.  It's a beautiful, bright, sunny day morning and I feel like you do when someone's just died and you know the world is carrying on but you feel like you're just not a part of it.  It's funny... I feel like there's this ball of rage churning inside me but I'm just too miserable for it to be able to touch me.
I can't believe I'm actually about to go to work.  It almost feels a silly thing to do.
I just desperately need to get the next few days over with.  I need wednesday to roll around so I can go do the test and be done with this.  Much as I consciously do not want to have any hope, it's there... so help me, it is.  If I can just get this done with then I can figure out how to go see my doctor.  Not easy as my DH's middle daughter (she's 23) is coming to visit for the first time since we were married and it's all very delicate so we don't want to tell her what's happened.  No point in making her uncomfortable when she's making an effort.  But I want to go see him so I can figure out the next step.  This might sound very selfish when obviously having a child is the priority but I hate how much I've missed out on for nothing... I had an opportunity to go to Hong Kong and visit friends but couldn't do it, I could have gone to visit my sister with my DH when he went a few days ago but I couldn't fly because it was risky... pfffff... now I have a business trip to Delhi coming up and my sister wants to come with me but I might not make that depending on what the next step is and the timing.  And my sister wants to come and visit but there's not a lot of point if I'm in stuck in bed in Lebanon during the week she can make it out here!
Like I said, it sounds shallow and I give it all up willingly for a baby but it makes me angry when it's for nothing.  I know, I know.  It's hardly a trade off or a deal... I'll give up x, y and z, if I can have 1 girl and 1 boy please!!!!!!!
I keep trying to tell myself that God knows what he's doing and maybe if this hasn't worked out it's because when it does work out it will be better for whatever reason... and I try to look at the positive side and tell myself that maybe next time I'll get my twins!
Anyway, I'd best go get dressed.
Good luck ladies, to one and all.

[ms320]

Magda:  I am so sorry.  I know it feels like the cruelest joke in the world.  Getting a BFN is hard enough to deal with, but this is like somebody gave you what you really wanted, and then took it away.  I feel awful.  Everyone has alredy said it before, but I will continue to keep you in my prayers.  

HeathJo:  Your numbers sound great.  While the meds you needed to take made you feel horrible, I bet you'll agree that it was all worthwhile when you get your BFP.  

fifi blue:  Did they ever give you any follow-up after the case study.  At the very least, you deserve some type of explanation.


I was off the board yesterday, and cannot believe how badly I missed my sisters.  My brothers and I threw a 75th birthday party for my mom, so we had a lot of fun.  I snuck off in the middle of the party to do an OPK and surprisingly it was +.  I can't believe it.  I haven't had a + OPK on cd 11 in about 6 months.  It looks like my cycle is returning to normal.  Anyway, I will call my IVF nurse tomorrow and have her set me up to begin my protocol in 9 days.  I am excited, but nervous.
What a weekend:  mom's 75th birthday, + OPK and The Giants in the SuperBowl.  Doesn't get much better than this for me  : )    (My apologies to any Green Bay or Dallas fans)

[Helen72]

Mary,
that's great!  Finally some good news.  I am glad you don't have to wait any more.  I hope it's all smooth sailing from here for you.

Magda,
my heat breaks when I read your posts.  I am so sorry you have to go through this again but I am glad to know that despite all of the heartbreak you are not giving up.  Are you doing another fresh cycle or FET?  I know that a BFP will cure all ills.   I know there is still hope and I will keep my fingers crossed for you on Wednesday.
Wishing you much strength!

[magda_s]

Thank you Helen.  I thought I was doing better tonight but ever since my poor DH walked in the door I can't seem to stop crying.  God... this waiting for Wednesday is just SO hard and you know... it's scary but this is the first time I feel like I'm chocking on this... I WANT this so badly and I knew it might take some work but I never thought it might not happen.  I know it's silly to be so negative after just 2 tries but I'm so scared that maybe it just doesn't happen!
I'm definitely not giving up.  Oooofff... can't imagine doing that.  At least, can't imagine it yet.  But I don't know yet what will happen.  Makes it that much harder because I can't even start thinking about the next bit.  However, I know we have some frozen embies from the last retrieval so I have to find out what type they were (Type I or what) and whether it's worth trying.  I haven't tried frozen ones before so have no idea what the protocol is nor how long it takes.  If it's not much shorter than starting from scratch then I think it's not worth trying... may as well start from scratch and have a bunch of Type Is since I seem to produce them okay.  I say this because I htink I remember the doctor saying we went with all the type Is and only froze the rest that were type II.
I also don't know how soon I can start again.  I mean, if we go with the frozen embies I wonder if we can't go ahead and do the transfer in March.  I mean, I'm still waiting for "AF" and then the next one would be around early March so I guess, mid march we could do the transfer.  I doubt it could be in Feb!!
If we're not going with frozen then I have to see if I can start on the pill right away as soon as AF shows up this time or if my doc will tell me he wants me to take a month off (I didn't after the 1st try and I responded just fine but I don't know if he'll say that 3 times ina row is pushing things.  I also don't know how the fact that I actually was pregnant this time changes things (1st try just didn't happen)
Anyone have any thoughts on any of this?

[Helen72]

FET is less invasive since you do not have to go through retrieval.  If you have a few good ones I would definitely do FET if I were in your shoes.  I will be starting b/c in about 2 weeks myself getting ready for my first ivf and I really hope to have a bunch of frozen embies since I doubt we can afford more than one fresh cycle.  You should talk to your doctor about probability of success with FET vs. another fresh cycle.  Also, some women on this forum go through the fresh cycle and also add leftover frozen embryos from their previous ivf cycle.  That's also a potential option for you.
Again, your next step is up to you but you should explore all potential ways to proceed.
Will be thinking of you on Wednesday!!!!!

[fifi blue]

Hey Girls, hope you're enjoying Super Bowl Sunday - GO Pats.  Sorry ms320.
I'm calling my clinic tomorrow to find out what happened with my retrieval.  My dr was doing a case study on Friday so I hope to have some answers.  My dh really wants to change clinics but I can't cope with making any changes right now.  He's also getting on my nerves, bless him he's a great guy but he's bugging the **** out of me lately.  I read on a website that there is no such thing as an empty follicle.  It can mean any number of things.  Diminished ovarian reserve, reaction to hcg, bad eggs etc.  None of those answers are very comforting.  The fact is that I have a poor response to meds and I never produce many follicles.  All are indicative of diminished ovarian reserve even though my FSH is good.  I just want some straight answers.  With all that said, I'm not ready to give up.  I've been doing acupuncture for the last 4 weeks and picked up a book today called "The Infertility Cure" which is all about Traditional Chinese Medicine and acupuncture.  I've found it very enlightening already.

[magda_s]

Thank you Helen for the advice.  Yes, have to talk to our doctor and figure this out... see what he says and that... just need to survive until I get to see him!!
Good luck with your IVF!

fifi Blue ... good luck to you to with the clinic tomorrow.  I'm sorry you're having trouble with them and your DH isn't happy with them but I understand fully not wanting to change.  We're talking about changing because we have to drive to the neighbouring country to see our doctor and when I do the transfer I have to stay there away from my Dh for a week and it's all just becoming a bit much so we're thinking of trying someone here in Syria but I have to say... SO not looking forward to changing someone I'm comfortable with!

[babyalive]

Mary great about the + OPK.  I hope the next 9 days passes quickly for you.

Helen - IVF is not something I know a lot about.  Why do they put you on b/c prior to the process?  Is that to give your ovaries a break?

Fifi - I bought the same book last weekend, or the one before.  I posted it on  here, but it was a many posts ago.  I LOVE IT!!!  I haven't had enough time to go through it with as much detail as I would have liked.  Today, I'm intending to do some reading in it.  

I purchased my smiley face digitiaI OPK's (clear blue) at Target.  I was happliy surprised that they were only $29.00.  I had read they were like $58.00.  I only purchased one set of 7 sticks, so I can't obsess and POAS several times a day like I did before.  Once a day is all I'm going to POAS.  I also purchased a digital thermometer that takes your temp via your ear.  I'm feeling all geared up and ready to go for IUI #4!

[fifi blue]

Madga, wow if I change clinics it's only a couple of miles away not another country.  I guess I have it really easy in that respect and should be grateful that they're available to me.  You're an amazing lady and I appreciate your advice to me and others even when your suffering so much.  I'm praying and thinking of you.  

Lisa, I only read a little of that book but found it very interesting.  I'm going to have to change my diet and I have no clue how to cook any of the food it recommended.  I'm Irish and I'm great with meat and potato but after that I'm lost :)

b/c is to suppress you before beginning meds.  They want the follicles to grow at the same rate.  After taking b/c for a month they check estrogen, lining and lh on day 2 or 3.  If everything is within range - e less than 50, lining no more than 3-4  can't remember the lh than you begin meds.

[Helen72]

Just like fifi said, everyone starts on b/c before ivf meds; you need that to suppress some sort of gland.  I am hoping to do an IUI this week but I am not very hopeful it will work so I am mentally preparing myself to go all the way.

I never used digital OPK's since I prefer regular sticks.  Also, with my POAS addiction I got a bunch of really cheap ones (below $1) so that I do not feel bad testing twice a day.  I already started OPK-ing yesterday but will probably not get a + till Wednesday. For you digital may work better although if you are using the trigger you don't need OPKs all that much anyways.  I hope the trigger works for you!

[ms320]

Lisa:  I also prefer the Digital OPKs, but they can be a bit pricey if you need to use more than one box per month.  I sometimes buy the Answer brand sticks that cost about $18 for 20 sticks.  If I get a definate negative, I use just those.  On days where I get two lines that are nearing identical color, I follow up with the digitals.  This way, I can start early in my cycle and not use up all the smiley face sticks.  I don't know if it will work for you, but it seems to work well for me.

[babyalive]

Fifi,

Yes, after reading the diet portion, I realized my entire diet consists of everything on the "don't eat" list.  Also, they list Flax Seed oil and I know it is great for you FULL of Omega 3's. But, some drs. recommend not taking it while pregnant or ttc because it can cause some sort of blood clotting issue that effects the embie.  Although this is controversial and my dr. thinks its fine to take it.  I used to have smoothies every day with flax seed until ttc, then I stopped because of the risks I'd been hearing of m/c.  The only other choice is fish oil but then there's the mercury issue.  So, I'm not sure which I'll start taking.

I have a great recipe for a ministrone soup that uses all of those great winter root vegetables they mentioned in the book.  If you'd like the recipe,let me know I'll PM it to you.

Mary: I was going to do the exact same thing.  Also buy the answer brand and when I get the "if-ee" surge, then break out the digital.  Maybe I'll p/u those answers brand sticks today.  

Helen - you're right with the trigger that sort of narrows done o for you doesn't it.  Thanks for the info. on b/c and IVF.  I kept reading about it and wasn't sure why it was necessary. Makes sense now though.   The digital OPK's are sticks just like the others, but I sometimes have such a hard time deciphering if the lines are equal in shade or not.  So, I thought spending more on digitials, is cheaper than having 2 IUI in a given cycle.  I'm doing ALL that I can, every little piece helps...I hope.

I think you have the right attitude Helen.  That's how I try to think each month.  Just pretend you'll still be ttc the following  month, then if you get a BFN - well your mentally prepared, and if you get a BFP - well YIP, YIP, YIPEE!   I'm really praying and keeping fingers and toes crossed for you!

This post is getting bogged for my computer to load, so I'm going to take over Heathjo's job this week and redirect. I hope that is fine with all of you?