Just got a disturbing call from RE

[SDteacher]

Okay.... this morning I dropped off my DH sample.  We were told we wouldn't have to do ICSI because I passed the anti sperm test or something.....so I had to drop off a sample this morning and DH will need to make another deposit tomorrow dusing my ER recovery.  The lab called and said his count was really really good (126 million), motility was at 46% grade A....BUT his white blood cell (WBC) count is up 2.3 and it is supposed to be less than 1.  This means they want us to do ICSI!!!  Why would we need to do ICSI?  I asked if we could wait to see what his count is tomorrow and they seemed like they wanted me to just go along with their recommendation.  My RE is very well known and I know I should just trust what they say but I don't understand the reasoning.  I wanted something to be natural.  Now we have to force the sperm into the egg using ICSI!  Why?  It still has a high WBC???  DOes this mean there is a chance of having abnormalties???  I am so upset.  How can the high WBC truly affect the process and the outcome???  Anybody???

[MAR13]

But most of the clinics right now are using ICSI - mine used this method too - I think this gives you more chances to get it right. And my husband has a very good potential - it is over 65% (so it is good) - so, I don't think that this is anything to be concerned about it. Good luck honey and please don't stress ;-)

[SDScientist]

It is okay.  You know the clinic I go to and ICSI is pretty standard practice there.  Just about all male factor cases use ICSI.  What are your concerns about ICSI.  I am not sure about the egg freezing.  There is still alot of research going on with this.  Remember my friend that had two successes with Garzo...both ICSI.  They just separate out the sperm and hand fertilize each little egg using a very very small needle.  I am totally not trying to discount your feelings AT ALL, I guess since we have no other options but ICSI that I forgot it could be done another way.  

[SDteacher]

THANKS!!!  I'll let you  all know how many eggs and their grades tomorrow evening some time.  Thanks for all of your good wishes!

[hopngfortwns08]

Hi,

we also had ICSI done and our eggs came out fine. i believe that if we have gone this far to achieve a PG we will do almost anything. you are almost there!!! everything happens for a reason. i am a firm believer of this:) Good luck with ur ER hope u get lots of good eggs!!

[spec]

I am not sure about this, but I believe in the washing process of the sperm, it knocks off the WBC's.  I don't know about freezing your eggs unfertilized.  I'm sure it could be done.  My only concern about not fertilizing them all would be, "how many they are able to retrieve, and out of those, how many are mature and actually fertilize."  They retrieved 13 eggs from me, but only 8 were mature, and only 6 fertilized.  Out of those 6, only 1 embie was a grade 4 (grade 5 being highest at my clinic).   Then I had 2 grade 3's and 3 grade 2's.   I would ask them to see about this, and maybe they can give you some guidance.  Good luck to you!!!  Lots of SSBD for lots of eggs!!!

[SDteacher]

thank you for that website.  I will check it out.

spec, funny I just spoke with my mom and she does make me feel calmer.  Too bad she lives so far away.
Thanks everyone for the info.  I think I am going to try not to think about all of this anymore.  I want to feel good about tomorrows retrieval and focus on my eggs and not the high WBC count of DH's sperm.  I just pray that the embryos will still form properly and stick.  I am also wondering if I can freeze some of my eggs without fertilizing them with my DH's sperm this time around.  Perhaps if this doesn't work out this time we can use my eggs and his healthier sperm at a later date.  I know I shouldn't say this but I don't want to "contaminate" all of my eggs with his high WBC count sperm.  Would you do the same?

[baby1234]

I know this is hard, but I tried to think of all the procedures this way...

Anything they do to increase my chance of getting pg is a good thing!!!! This will improve your chances!!!!

I had icsi done my first cycle and got pg (I m/ced because of clotting issues, but the point is that I got pg!).

On ivfconnections.com they have a board for icsi questions. You might try looking there for more info.

[spec]

I know that you must be frustrated.  Sorry to hear all of this.  And I know all the things that are probably going through your mind about ICSI and all the things that they do with your eggs and dh sperm.  After I read all the procedural info on what they may have to do (ICSI, assisted hatching), I freaked out.  I thought, here they are tampering with the genetics of our unborn child.  I just had to pray that God gave them the abilities to do what they do, and leave it in his hands, that he would guide them through it.   It's hard to do, but once I seriously sat down and prayed for peace to come over me about all of it, I felt better.  Until then, I thought I was just messing with human nature.  It also helped me to talk to my mom about it.  I hope that you can find that peace that helped me.  I will pray for you. :)   Good luck on ER tomorrow!!  

[spec]

sorry, I posted after you posted back.  Maybe your RE can give you some answers as to why they want to do ICSI then.  I am at a loss.  I don't know if I told you correct or not about ICSI taking the best sperm.  I imagine regardless they would take best sperm.   Keep us posted, we are awaiting to hear why.

[SDteacher]

Well, just got off the phone with RE and it was explained to me that the WBC in DH shows that there is something like antibodies attacking my DH sperm (like spec was saying).  When it (the sperm) is incubated there is a chance for it to get worse is my understanding.  I will need to go over all this again with my DH and the RE in the morning.  It looks like when they use ICSI it surpasses something (not sure exactly what) to fertilize the egg and the chances are better.  He said he is looking out for the embryo's well being and using ICSI will enhance the chances of it's survival I guess.  I am still confused.  Regardless, that is our plan now.  I am wondering how the hell did my DH get an infection????  His body is obviously fighting something off.  Why now????  I am so upset that I had gone through this whole long and grueling process & all he had to do was get his sperm into a cup!  And it went wrong!  I know it's not his fault but  I am bitter.

[spec]

Sorry I left this out.  One of the things I was going to say about the antibody/antisperm blood test, if they did not do one on your husband, maybe since his WBC was up, they decided to do ICSI for causionary measures.  The blood test took about 4-5wks to come back.  Hope this eases your mind.  

[SDteacher]

Yes, he had that test done and it came back normal.    That is why they said we wouldn't need icsi.  THANK YOU for telling me your experience.  Especially that you were successful with high WBC during IVF.  My DH does have something going on do to his high WBC count.   I am suppose to call the RE in 10 min. for a phone consult about this.  ICSI allows them to take the best sperm??  I thought  ICSI was a just the procedure that they use to force the sperm into the egg to fertilize.  I think they wash & choose the best sperm regardless.  I am also concerned with the unexpected cost of ICSI...it's so expensive!  UGH!

[spec]

Did your husband have antisperm/antibody test done?  My dh white count was elevated also.  He had the antibody in his sperm.  My dh sperm count was great!!  But he had a high white count that further concluded with another test that he had built antibodies that were atacking his sperm.  They recommended ICSI for us because of that.  I believe they wash the sperm regardless of ICSI or not, but I think ICSI allows them to take best sperm to inject egg for fertilization.  I'm not sure if I helped answer your question at all, but I'm sure that they are considering the best possible way for you to conceive.  If it makes you feel any better, they also had to do assisted hatching (which freaked me out) on our eggs and we're 10wks pg!!  Good luck to you and I'm sure everything will be fine!!!  :)

[kahlian]

I think talking to the RE and getting an explanation will probably ease your mind...like you said they are well known and only want the best outcome..stay focused ....good luck and let us know!

[SDteacher]

True about the embies borrowing into the uterus being natural.  Very true.  
I was just going to wait to speak to the RE tomorrow morning before my procedure but I don't think I can wait.  
Thanks for chatting with me......
I'll keep you updated.

[Brown Eyed Gurl]

I'm so sorry for your troubles I'm not sure what ICSI is and WBC but I do understand that you are very upset and I want you to know I'm hear if you need someone to vent on.

Brandi

[baby1234]

I am so sorry that this call upset you! First, take a deep breath and know that all is going to be okay!

White blood cells in your husband's sperm sample means that he is fighting an infection of some kind. That can affect the count and motility, etc. This might be especially true if he has to produce another sample tomorrow. Could it be that the icsi would be able to fertilize your eggs with the healthiest sperm instead of leaving it to chance?

I would go with the re's rec. and let them do icsi. They are the professionals and they have all of the info. I haven't heard of abnormalities coming from icsi or a high wbc count.  I would just ask your RE tomorrow )or have him call you today if you prefer) to fully explain the reasoning behind using icsi and the implication of the elevated wbc count (and keep explaining until you either feel comfortable or fully understand why). Sometimes, the nurses/lab are not the best people to get the info from!

If you're looking for "something to be natural" during this cycle, my opinion is that the most natural thing is that embie burrowing into your uterus for a nice long stay!

Hope this helps! I wish you much luck tomorrow.