Aa
Fibro or not?
I will try to make this as short as possible. Like probably most of you, I have had the gambit of Doctors and medical test showing nothing or near nothing from the top of my head to my toe nails. I think enough money has been spent on test in just the last 3 years to have retired me to Baja for the rest of my life, which probably would have stood the best chance of actualy fixing whatever this is. I think even a weekly massage would have accomplished more then the heart test, lung test, endocrine test, blood test, X-rays and CT scans they performed on me. While 10's of thousands of dollars of taxpayers money was spent, I got to spend 13 years trying to get well on my own with little success, no income, and living in whatever relatives home that was kind enough to have me and support me while I slipped back and forth in health inside my body and while looking 100 percent healthy on the outside.
13 years ago I had what they would have called a complete nervous breakdown at one time. Now they have lots of other names for it, but suffice it to say that outside of the mental issues that were bad enough, which preaty much amounted to about a years worth of untreated total daily exhaustion, high anxiety, dozens of panic attacks a day, it also physicaly messed me up preaty good that no matter how much research I do, I can't find an answer.
Okay, enough ground work. I am sure its been heard in one form or another countless times anyhow. Here are the basic symptoms I have been living with.
1: Pain in neck, shoulders, upper back, upper chest that goes up into throat tension. It is highly sporadic though. I don't have the super tender points that I have seen described, but all the pain and tension I do have corresponds to those points. Very strong deep tissue massage on those points is a huge relief.
2: Highly variable fatigue. I seem to go back and forth between a decent energy level one day, that is always combined with a feeling of being stressed out, to total exhaustion the next day where I am not stressed, but I have no energy level or desire or ability to do much of anything. Drinking a cup or a gallon of coffee has almost no positive effect. It just makes me crash harder latter without even bothering to pick me up.
3: Sleeping varies same as fatigue. The stressed out energy days require drugs to go to sleep. The fatigued out counter days I could easily go to bed by 2 in afternoon and not get up till 5 am the next day. I always wake up at 5am also for some reason. I can wake up feeling okay and as soon as my feet hit the floor and I start moving, I feel worn out.
4: Stomach upset in first half of day. Usualy have a apetite in second half of the day.
5: Breathing feels exhausted and frequently constricted even though I have passed every x-ray, pulmonary test and CT scan they did on my lungs.
6: Often light headed, dizzy, unfocused. When I have to take long rides, where my body is not getting any movement or circulation, by 8 PM I am so light headed and unfocused I basicaly just lay down before I fall down. If I was to drink caffiene at this point it makes me feel 10 times worse and makes me reach for the floor before I faint.
7: The most aggravateing symptom is this dull and very constant chest tension that seems to effect me much more often on my fatigued days when I don't feel stressed. It is almost the opposite of a stress reaction. When I am keyed up, stressed, anxious and have a energy level, I usualy don't get the chest tension, dull ache or whatever it is. What brings it on more then anything is prolonged standing, which makes me feel like it maybe related to muscle fatigue. Sometimes it runs from the sternum all the way up into the neck muscles. Sometimes it is just above the sternum. Basicaly feels like a constant tight band across the chest and the only major variance is how wide and how much of the chest and neck it covers.
8: I have tried everything I can think of or found to try to treat this. I am currently doing liver flushes, taking allot of Malic Acid and Magnesium and a whole lot of very expensive systemic enzymes. It does seem to be slowly improveing with that combination, or maybe I am experienceing allot of wishfull thinking.
One thing I have noticed that definitly has improved is that my skin, which has had the tendency to not heal and develop itching sores on my arms, and these shiny bumps is clearing up. Those shiney bumps that were anywhere from a dime to a quarter in size largely resemble some form skin carcinoma. And they are going away, and if they are carcinoma, they are not supposed to go away without being removed. So something is doing something, because I have had those skin bump symptoms constantly for about the last 6 years and when I was the sickest, they were the biggest. What seems to be impacting those is the systemic enzymes by the way. The arm sores that wouldn't heal, healed up with the liver flushing and a whole lot of drinking water.
So, I am bewildered. I can't tell if this classic FMS, CFS, Adrenal Burnout or what. The skin sores and bumps are indicating high toxicity levels, but I had all of the muscle and fatigue issues 7 years before those skin symptoms started showing up.
13 years ago I had what they would have called a complete nervous breakdown at one time. Now they have lots of other names for it, but suffice it to say that outside of the mental issues that were bad enough, which preaty much amounted to about a years worth of untreated total daily exhaustion, high anxiety, dozens of panic attacks a day, it also physicaly messed me up preaty good that no matter how much research I do, I can't find an answer.
Okay, enough ground work. I am sure its been heard in one form or another countless times anyhow. Here are the basic symptoms I have been living with.
1: Pain in neck, shoulders, upper back, upper chest that goes up into throat tension. It is highly sporadic though. I don't have the super tender points that I have seen described, but all the pain and tension I do have corresponds to those points. Very strong deep tissue massage on those points is a huge relief.
2: Highly variable fatigue. I seem to go back and forth between a decent energy level one day, that is always combined with a feeling of being stressed out, to total exhaustion the next day where I am not stressed, but I have no energy level or desire or ability to do much of anything. Drinking a cup or a gallon of coffee has almost no positive effect. It just makes me crash harder latter without even bothering to pick me up.
3: Sleeping varies same as fatigue. The stressed out energy days require drugs to go to sleep. The fatigued out counter days I could easily go to bed by 2 in afternoon and not get up till 5 am the next day. I always wake up at 5am also for some reason. I can wake up feeling okay and as soon as my feet hit the floor and I start moving, I feel worn out.
4: Stomach upset in first half of day. Usualy have a apetite in second half of the day.
5: Breathing feels exhausted and frequently constricted even though I have passed every x-ray, pulmonary test and CT scan they did on my lungs.
6: Often light headed, dizzy, unfocused. When I have to take long rides, where my body is not getting any movement or circulation, by 8 PM I am so light headed and unfocused I basicaly just lay down before I fall down. If I was to drink caffiene at this point it makes me feel 10 times worse and makes me reach for the floor before I faint.
7: The most aggravateing symptom is this dull and very constant chest tension that seems to effect me much more often on my fatigued days when I don't feel stressed. It is almost the opposite of a stress reaction. When I am keyed up, stressed, anxious and have a energy level, I usualy don't get the chest tension, dull ache or whatever it is. What brings it on more then anything is prolonged standing, which makes me feel like it maybe related to muscle fatigue. Sometimes it runs from the sternum all the way up into the neck muscles. Sometimes it is just above the sternum. Basicaly feels like a constant tight band across the chest and the only major variance is how wide and how much of the chest and neck it covers.
8: I have tried everything I can think of or found to try to treat this. I am currently doing liver flushes, taking allot of Malic Acid and Magnesium and a whole lot of very expensive systemic enzymes. It does seem to be slowly improveing with that combination, or maybe I am experienceing allot of wishfull thinking.
One thing I have noticed that definitly has improved is that my skin, which has had the tendency to not heal and develop itching sores on my arms, and these shiny bumps is clearing up. Those shiney bumps that were anywhere from a dime to a quarter in size largely resemble some form skin carcinoma. And they are going away, and if they are carcinoma, they are not supposed to go away without being removed. So something is doing something, because I have had those skin bump symptoms constantly for about the last 6 years and when I was the sickest, they were the biggest. What seems to be impacting those is the systemic enzymes by the way. The arm sores that wouldn't heal, healed up with the liver flushing and a whole lot of drinking water.
So, I am bewildered. I can't tell if this classic FMS, CFS, Adrenal Burnout or what. The skin sores and bumps are indicating high toxicity levels, but I had all of the muscle and fatigue issues 7 years before those skin symptoms started showing up.
Intolerance to heat is a common problem with CFS and I assume FM. A tremor with exertion should be checked out by a neurologist - I assume you have. (A tremor at rest is no big deal.)
Maybe this will give you an idea... I had a shake in my right arm/hand for which I remember the moment of onset - extreme upset with an extreme person. Years later when I got massages i noticed once that it went away when a spot in my right shoulder was released. Now if I notice it starting up I rub that spot myself. It's not an obvious connection.
Muscluar fatigue is also a common CFS problem, so maybe it's showing when you are using your body more than it can take, and seeing a reaction that you wouldn't be seeing if your threatholds were normal? For instance, when I use my hands, at first they get "weak and confused", then some pain irritation, then shooting pains up my arms start up.
There is a very thick book published some 10 years ago of all sorts of CFS symptoms and explanations. I found one of mine in their that I couldn't figure out. I don't remember the name of the book of course. It was by two CFS patients who decided to compile it and did a great deal of research.
Maybe this will give you an idea... I had a shake in my right arm/hand for which I remember the moment of onset - extreme upset with an extreme person. Years later when I got massages i noticed once that it went away when a spot in my right shoulder was released. Now if I notice it starting up I rub that spot myself. It's not an obvious connection.
Muscluar fatigue is also a common CFS problem, so maybe it's showing when you are using your body more than it can take, and seeing a reaction that you wouldn't be seeing if your threatholds were normal? For instance, when I use my hands, at first they get "weak and confused", then some pain irritation, then shooting pains up my arms start up.
There is a very thick book published some 10 years ago of all sorts of CFS symptoms and explanations. I found one of mine in their that I couldn't figure out. I don't remember the name of the book of course. It was by two CFS patients who decided to compile it and did a great deal of research.
I have been diagnosed with firbromyalgia, but the one symptom that never seems to fit the diagnosis is a slight tremor in my hands that is usually exacerbated by over exertion or heat. Does anyone else have this problem, or an intolerance to the heat?
I'm happy that you are seeing a counselor. Remember if you keep telling yourself that you are going to have a breakdown, then it will probably happen. I know how frustrated you must feel... I had undiagnosed CFS for so many years. One thing that helped me through the years was treating my symptoms through alternative medicine and training my brain to avoid thinking of how I felt physically, etc..
You might want to consider treating yourself to a spa weekend or something. Do you think that would help you ? Also, being pro-active with your physicians and especially with a diagnosis of fibro or CFS, is important. Perhaps a support group ? I always keep up on the latest research and that helps me. In addition, I meditate and remember to be conscious of what I'm telling myself and the messages I'm sending to myself. The important thing is to put yourself first and change your life around --- whatever you have to do --- so that you aren't leading a chronic high stress life. That is only going to aggrevate your symptoms and you don't want that. IMO, fibromyalgia can and will get worse if you don't manage your symptoms.
Wow, maybe we are on to something here. I was online searching "stress-induced breakdown" and I came across this conversation. I have been diagnosed with FMS for 12 years now. It isn't suppose to be a progressive disease, but I am only getting worse. My stress levels are over the top and my counselor is concerned that I am headed for a breakdown if I don't do tomething about it SOON. I have anxiety attacks that cause me to breakout with "heat rash like" rashes from head to toe. I have tried everything except a complete withdrawl from life. I'm not talking suicide but a retreat.
I am intersted in knowing more about the "nervous breakdown" that Grailhunter mentioned. I too have had multiple tests and everything has come back normal or negative. I have been tested for Lupus and RA. It is very frustrating feeling like **** everyday and not seeing an end or a real antidote to help.
I am leading a chronic high stress life, not by choice, and I need help with deling with it. What did you do for the nervous breakdown?
I am intersted in knowing more about the "nervous breakdown" that Grailhunter mentioned. I too have had multiple tests and everything has come back normal or negative. I have been tested for Lupus and RA. It is very frustrating feeling like **** everyday and not seeing an end or a real antidote to help.
I am leading a chronic high stress life, not by choice, and I need help with deling with it. What did you do for the nervous breakdown?
Thank you all for your replies. I am sorta stuck in California with no insurance. Which I guess is just as well really. My Doctor in Arizona that ran tens of thousands of dollars in test, probably all the wrong ones never found a thing to explain this. So I just keep going to the pool, drinking my greens, taking the psyche meds, taking whatever pain killers and muscle relaxers I can lay my hands on. Kinda funny I can't get medical help in California, but I can get mental help. Wow, that just says way to much about how were getting treated by the system you spend your life paying taxes into.
maybe you guys should read about lupus..i know that has something to do with soreness fatique and bumps and sores
Check your cortisol and B12. See a chiropractor for spinal readjustment. Ask your doctor for a sleep study. Fibromyalgia was diagnosed 12 years ago for me and I accepted the diagnosis. I went to a pulmonary specialist whom told me fibromyalgia is a syndrome, basically a list of symptoms to which a label has been given. Whilst the symptoms are being treated, the cause of the illness is going undetected. I feel annoyed that I accepted 12 years of my life virtually stopping and having pain, exhaustion, brain fog etc. I didn't need to. I just had to find out the cause instead.
Hi My name is Debbie and boy when i read your comment about your Fibro i thought i was reading my own BIO! Scary Scary Scary! I have all your symptoms except the bumps and sores. But I have many gerd problems that you dont mention. I have spent so much money and time you have no idea. I used to make 6 figures, now I am waiting for my SS which i probably will have to fight for years and that is IF i get it. Massages are the only thing that helps me and water. I have good days and bad. Docs are baffled, and think i am nuts. I am not. The only test that do come out not 'Norma:" are (*low iron, HIGH CFS blood test, mitro valve prolapse and asthma). I get so fatigued its dangerous. I have been to ER they thought i was havy a heart attack but blood tests said no. That is tired! Things that help me
Zanex (releieves stress and IBS for me) can be addicting. I take lowest dose for 2 years. The only drug for me that has helped and i have been going to Doctor for 10 years!
Oxygen Therapy
Cold Water
Fish Oil
Singular *(allergies)
Rest
Good Sleep (ear plugs)
Massage (*light but long)
No Stress
Light on coffee and wine
Small Meals
Lots of protein
Touch *(facial, massage, oh the hot tub is great)
No gassy foods..
Patient and Understaning Partner *(sorry but it helps! hee hee)
My babies (pets) that sleep with me when i am sick
Vicodin when in extreme pain *(but it upsets my stomach day later)
Hope that helps.
Zanex (releieves stress and IBS for me) can be addicting. I take lowest dose for 2 years. The only drug for me that has helped and i have been going to Doctor for 10 years!
Oxygen Therapy
Cold Water
Fish Oil
Singular *(allergies)
Rest
Good Sleep (ear plugs)
Massage (*light but long)
No Stress
Light on coffee and wine
Small Meals
Lots of protein
Touch *(facial, massage, oh the hot tub is great)
No gassy foods..
Patient and Understaning Partner *(sorry but it helps! hee hee)
My babies (pets) that sleep with me when i am sick
Vicodin when in extreme pain *(but it upsets my stomach day later)
Hope that helps.
Have you been tested for Celiac Disease.? The sores on your arms sound like one of the signs of Celiac. I have it and the sores on my arms finally went away when I started a gluten free diet. But don't just go on a gluten free diet, get tested for Celiac first. It's just a blood test.
I basicaly read all the different version of liver and gallbladder flushing and then went with something that seemed to work for me, because I really don't think the timing on how you do it is really as critical as allot of those sites say it is.
What I do is to take a Malic Acid/Magnesium combination all week that is supposed to be good for Fibro and CFS. Malic acid is also supposed to break down solidified bile in the miles of billiary tubes in the liver and breakdown sludge bile. Then once a week, because I am a fanatic about being in a hurry to feel better I do a flush. On a flush I take 8 onces of Extra Virgin Cold pressed olive oil and about 12 ounces of grapefruit juice and put it into a bottle together and shake it up, drink it and go to bed, laying on my right side for at least half an hour before turning whatever direction I want to sleep in. This position places the Gallbladder in the best direction to dump out its bile.
Now, since I have avoided eating anything fatty all day long, my liver and gallbadder showed be loaded up with bile and that olive oil/grapefruit juice mixture makes it transit through the stomach real fast. When all of that oil hits the duodenum, its a massive overload and the gallbladder dumps everything out trying to break it down, and then the liver is signaled to dump everything and make more bile and essentialy what has happened is the gallbladder and liver has been placed into high gear pumping out bile to handle that oil and hopefully a whole bunch of bile stagnation and hardened bile is going to be shoved out in the process.
The first time you do this you maynot get much in the way of bile stones or you may get allot. Most people usualy don't get allot of bile chunks out until latter flushes because everything is so jammed up to begin with. And on most people it can take 15 to 20 of these flushing's 2 to 4 weeks apart before they will stop getting stones out and the liver is cleared, "I do them one week apart" cause I am a fanatic about getting it done. I am on about my 8th flush and this last one I really got a bunch of bile chunks and the biggest ones yet.
Another thing you can add to this, especialy on the first couple of flushing is the epson salts thing. You take 6 teaspoons of epson salts disolved in water about 2 hours before your going to take the Olive oil and go to bed. Make sure you haven't eaten since 2 pm if you do the Epson salts because it can make you feel quite sick if there is anything on your stomach and you take Epson salts. These salts are magnesium sulphate, a laxative and muscle relaxer with a affinity for the liver. They will relax and diolate the bile ducts so its easier for stuff to come out.
So, let me put it step wise:
1: Do this on a day where you don't have to do anything the next day. You will be wiped out the next day, but general feel good by afternoon.
2: Eat lightly the day of the flush, no fats and nothing to eat after 2PM
3: If your doing Epson salts, mix up 6 teaspoons in cold water and drink 2 hours before bed.
4: Mix 8 ounces of Extra Virgin Cold pressed olive oil, and 12 ounces of grapefruit juice in shaker jar, mix it up good, drink it and go to bed. Lay on right side for at least 1/2 hour before turning over to how you normaly sleep.
5: You will probably have diahrea in the morning.
6. In the morning, mix 2 teaspons of sea salt in warm water and drink it. About an hour after you drink this sea salt, be prepared for about 2 hours of diahrea where your bowels are going to get totaly flushed out. Somewhere in the middle of this you will be seeing allot of green bile and chunks of green bile rangeing in side from small peas, to marbles or even bigger. By the time you get done with the diahrea it will be dumping preaty much clear water.
7. Drink lots and lots of water from when you get up and through the whole day. Give yourself at least a week to two weeks before you do another flush, so you can replace the lost water and electrolytes
8. The day after the flush, go back to taking Malic Acid to break stuff up for the next time. The Malic and Magnesium will probably help your aches and pains and give you some energy after a week or so. It does seem to be good for Fibro.
What do I think of the Marshall Protocol? Well, it sounds quite reasonable. The main thing I have felt all these years is that there is something going on in my body that is just pounding on it and it can't keep up, so it is always wiped out and playing catch up. The bacteria scenario makes the best sense I have seen, especialy since I was in plumbing, sewer and drain cleaning and septic and sewer repair a good part of my life until I got sick. I had ten thousand chances to pick up a bug that could hide in my body and keep wreeking havoc.
I am however trying the alternate path of building my immune system and taking natural forms of bacteria killers first, while I detox my body and get my detoxifying organs functioning better.. If that doesn't end up working, I will probably go the anti-biotic route. Personaly, I think it will work, the natural route if enough is put into it. If natural alternatives can put AIDS in check for years, which they did, before they came up with medicines that were more effective, I am preaty sure the right natural methods can put these bacteria in check and get the immune system back to healthy where it can fight it off and eventualy kill it. Even Marshall says it is not the antibiotics stopping this. It is the immune system. The antibiotics are just helping to give the immune system a break so it can get stronger and fight better.
I think your Dr is wrong about magnesium. First, it is a natural muscle relaxer. Second, low cellular levels of magnesium have been traced to making people more susceptible to anxiety and panic problems. Third, it is heavily involved in hundreds of enzyme processes and immune response. Most important, it helps keep fibro from spreading. Chronic pain signals through the dorsal horn of the nervous system excites adjacent nerve receptors. These receptors are normaly filled with magnesium. The nerve excitement pushes out the magnesium and replaces it with calcium. When calcium is in the receptor, pain is felt in the corresponding part of the body whether you are actualy hurt there or not. So essentialy, this is why Fibro pain is more nerve pain then actualy having a problem in the area your feeling it. The pain signals are actualy coming from the over excited dorsal horn center and magnesium supplementation helps restore the dorsal horn to normal and widespread pain gets reduced.
What I do is to take a Malic Acid/Magnesium combination all week that is supposed to be good for Fibro and CFS. Malic acid is also supposed to break down solidified bile in the miles of billiary tubes in the liver and breakdown sludge bile. Then once a week, because I am a fanatic about being in a hurry to feel better I do a flush. On a flush I take 8 onces of Extra Virgin Cold pressed olive oil and about 12 ounces of grapefruit juice and put it into a bottle together and shake it up, drink it and go to bed, laying on my right side for at least half an hour before turning whatever direction I want to sleep in. This position places the Gallbladder in the best direction to dump out its bile.
Now, since I have avoided eating anything fatty all day long, my liver and gallbadder showed be loaded up with bile and that olive oil/grapefruit juice mixture makes it transit through the stomach real fast. When all of that oil hits the duodenum, its a massive overload and the gallbladder dumps everything out trying to break it down, and then the liver is signaled to dump everything and make more bile and essentialy what has happened is the gallbladder and liver has been placed into high gear pumping out bile to handle that oil and hopefully a whole bunch of bile stagnation and hardened bile is going to be shoved out in the process.
The first time you do this you maynot get much in the way of bile stones or you may get allot. Most people usualy don't get allot of bile chunks out until latter flushes because everything is so jammed up to begin with. And on most people it can take 15 to 20 of these flushing's 2 to 4 weeks apart before they will stop getting stones out and the liver is cleared, "I do them one week apart" cause I am a fanatic about getting it done. I am on about my 8th flush and this last one I really got a bunch of bile chunks and the biggest ones yet.
Another thing you can add to this, especialy on the first couple of flushing is the epson salts thing. You take 6 teaspoons of epson salts disolved in water about 2 hours before your going to take the Olive oil and go to bed. Make sure you haven't eaten since 2 pm if you do the Epson salts because it can make you feel quite sick if there is anything on your stomach and you take Epson salts. These salts are magnesium sulphate, a laxative and muscle relaxer with a affinity for the liver. They will relax and diolate the bile ducts so its easier for stuff to come out.
So, let me put it step wise:
1: Do this on a day where you don't have to do anything the next day. You will be wiped out the next day, but general feel good by afternoon.
2: Eat lightly the day of the flush, no fats and nothing to eat after 2PM
3: If your doing Epson salts, mix up 6 teaspoons in cold water and drink 2 hours before bed.
4: Mix 8 ounces of Extra Virgin Cold pressed olive oil, and 12 ounces of grapefruit juice in shaker jar, mix it up good, drink it and go to bed. Lay on right side for at least 1/2 hour before turning over to how you normaly sleep.
5: You will probably have diahrea in the morning.
6. In the morning, mix 2 teaspons of sea salt in warm water and drink it. About an hour after you drink this sea salt, be prepared for about 2 hours of diahrea where your bowels are going to get totaly flushed out. Somewhere in the middle of this you will be seeing allot of green bile and chunks of green bile rangeing in side from small peas, to marbles or even bigger. By the time you get done with the diahrea it will be dumping preaty much clear water.
7. Drink lots and lots of water from when you get up and through the whole day. Give yourself at least a week to two weeks before you do another flush, so you can replace the lost water and electrolytes
8. The day after the flush, go back to taking Malic Acid to break stuff up for the next time. The Malic and Magnesium will probably help your aches and pains and give you some energy after a week or so. It does seem to be good for Fibro.
What do I think of the Marshall Protocol? Well, it sounds quite reasonable. The main thing I have felt all these years is that there is something going on in my body that is just pounding on it and it can't keep up, so it is always wiped out and playing catch up. The bacteria scenario makes the best sense I have seen, especialy since I was in plumbing, sewer and drain cleaning and septic and sewer repair a good part of my life until I got sick. I had ten thousand chances to pick up a bug that could hide in my body and keep wreeking havoc.
I am however trying the alternate path of building my immune system and taking natural forms of bacteria killers first, while I detox my body and get my detoxifying organs functioning better.. If that doesn't end up working, I will probably go the anti-biotic route. Personaly, I think it will work, the natural route if enough is put into it. If natural alternatives can put AIDS in check for years, which they did, before they came up with medicines that were more effective, I am preaty sure the right natural methods can put these bacteria in check and get the immune system back to healthy where it can fight it off and eventualy kill it. Even Marshall says it is not the antibiotics stopping this. It is the immune system. The antibiotics are just helping to give the immune system a break so it can get stronger and fight better.
I think your Dr is wrong about magnesium. First, it is a natural muscle relaxer. Second, low cellular levels of magnesium have been traced to making people more susceptible to anxiety and panic problems. Third, it is heavily involved in hundreds of enzyme processes and immune response. Most important, it helps keep fibro from spreading. Chronic pain signals through the dorsal horn of the nervous system excites adjacent nerve receptors. These receptors are normaly filled with magnesium. The nerve excitement pushes out the magnesium and replaces it with calcium. When calcium is in the receptor, pain is felt in the corresponding part of the body whether you are actualy hurt there or not. So essentialy, this is why Fibro pain is more nerve pain then actualy having a problem in the area your feeling it. The pain signals are actualy coming from the over excited dorsal horn center and magnesium supplementation helps restore the dorsal horn to normal and widespread pain gets reduced.
Good to hear from you again! What exactly did you do to flush your liver? I have read about several different things to do.. and now I am a bit confused. I would really like to try it. Have you researched any on the Marshall Protocol? What do you think about this?
I really like my Dr and really trust him. He seems very open to homeopathic cures along with traditional treatment. I was the first one in my area on Lyrica, thanks to him. It really did help me for quite awhile. I am really hurting bad this week and have spent the whole time in the house. I guess at the moment I am feeling a bit desperate. I really don't want to live my life on pain meds.. I have kids and need to feel better.
I did mention to my Dr once about magnesium.. and he thought it was unnecessary. I think this whole fibro thing started with me after taking a whole series of iron shots because I was severly anemic and declined a transfusion. Not sure if it's just a coincidence or not. Just a thought...
I really like my Dr and really trust him. He seems very open to homeopathic cures along with traditional treatment. I was the first one in my area on Lyrica, thanks to him. It really did help me for quite awhile. I am really hurting bad this week and have spent the whole time in the house. I guess at the moment I am feeling a bit desperate. I really don't want to live my life on pain meds.. I have kids and need to feel better.
I did mention to my Dr once about magnesium.. and he thought it was unnecessary. I think this whole fibro thing started with me after taking a whole series of iron shots because I was severly anemic and declined a transfusion. Not sure if it's just a coincidence or not. Just a thought...
Heh, posting on top of my own post, but a thought crossed my mind. The 3 times I have tried going back to work it has been in the winter or early fall and as soon as summer hits I go down the drain and have to quit the job. On some other threads the Marshall Protocol was being mentioned and avoiding sunlight and Vitamin D is part of that Protocol because it makes things worse. I have noticed I tend to improve in the Winter and Fall and get worse in the summer. I wonder what a study of how people with FM/CFS feel by the amount of sunshine they get and times of years and locations. The only time I have seen these symptoms go into total remission in the last 13 years was one year that I spent everyday inside. I developed agoraphobia and felt uncomfortable,"'to say the least" leaving the house. I had absolutely no Fibro symptoms though in that year.
The thing with the arm sores are sort of funny that way also. I used to be a outside worker all the time and the only places these sores would manifest is where my body was heavily exposed to the sun. I got some on my upper back also where the sun hit allot.
The thing with the arm sores are sort of funny that way also. I used to be a outside worker all the time and the only places these sores would manifest is where my body was heavily exposed to the sun. I got some on my upper back also where the sun hit allot.
I would add that if your Doctor is in the mainstream, the concept of liver flushing won't go over. Typicaly, if the liver enzyme test are normal and the liver is not showing disease there is no problem. Liver enzymes become elevated because the liver is being damaged. So its a sort of all or nothing Medical attitude. That would be like driving my car on the same oil and filter for as long as I could and viewing it as no possible problem going on, or any impact on the rest of car as long as the filter is not rupturing and spilling oil all over the road or the engine not running anymore.
If you research liver flushing you will find countless references to health improvement on websites, and in forums. I have never found a single reference to it being dangerous or having harmed anyone in the slightest. I have found a couple of references from Doctors saying it is pointless, which in my mind are far outweighed by the hundreds of references from people that have done it many times and said over the long run it has made dramatic differences in their health. I have done it 7 times myself in the last couple of months and I can say that although I still feel somewhat bad, still not quite back to the point of being able to work full time again, I am about 50 percent better then I was before I started. Some people have to run as many as 20 flushes over a period of 6 months to a year before they are no longer passing stagnant bile and the liver is totaly cleared. So I am right about where I would expect to be relative to how sick I have been and how many I have done, plus you have to factor in the simple fact that what has been damaged in the body needs time to heal even if the original culprit is identified and fixed.
If you research liver flushing you will find countless references to health improvement on websites, and in forums. I have never found a single reference to it being dangerous or having harmed anyone in the slightest. I have found a couple of references from Doctors saying it is pointless, which in my mind are far outweighed by the hundreds of references from people that have done it many times and said over the long run it has made dramatic differences in their health. I have done it 7 times myself in the last couple of months and I can say that although I still feel somewhat bad, still not quite back to the point of being able to work full time again, I am about 50 percent better then I was before I started. Some people have to run as many as 20 flushes over a period of 6 months to a year before they are no longer passing stagnant bile and the liver is totaly cleared. So I am right about where I would expect to be relative to how sick I have been and how many I have done, plus you have to factor in the simple fact that what has been damaged in the body needs time to heal even if the original culprit is identified and fixed.
Thanks so much for all the information. I think that is why we are all on here, is to try to get better and to see if we can help others. I am going to talk to my Dr. about this and start researching on the liver functions. That really makes a lot of sense. I am having a really bad time right now with my fibro... I thought it might get better through the summer. But, it hasn't. Lyrica was working really well for me.. but, not at the moment. I have had a really bad week and in a lot of pain. Thanks again for the info..
The arm sores seemed to be either a seperate condition from the Fibro and CFS or a continuation/worsening of the core cause on me that caused the breakdown 13 years ago. I don't know which.
What I mean by core cause is that it seems some massive stress factor or factors brings on the Fibro/CFS in most people. In me it was a mental breakdown. If I trace what condition I was in before the mental breakdown it comes down to two things. I was under a huge amount of stress for allot of years, but as long as I worked outside, doing physicaly demanding work I was basicaly okay. Six months before the breakdown I took a office job. In that six months I sat behind a desk I gained 50 pounds, my cholesterol and tryglicerides shot through the roof and my blood pressure went to high stroke out level. I also felt increasingly ill, naseous, headaches, gross fatigue. The combination of my physical health deteriateing and the years of mental stress caused the breakdown. The breakdown brought on the CFS and Fibro symptoms.
Okay, so what does that all have to do with the liver then? If you do searches on "Liver Stagnation Symptoms" or "Liver Flush" you will find a amazing correlation between those symptoms and the array of symptoms with CFS/Fibro. Of course that is not the only topic you get big correlation hits on symptoms.
In my case, the first 7 years of this I was able to hold it somewhat in check with excercise. As long as I went down and did swimming everyday and was able to get massage work I felt much better. The last 6 years this no longer works for me. Something has progressed to where seriously increasing my circulation everyday doesn't make me feel normal for a few hours anymore.
If the liver is stagnant, which essentialy means plugged up, but not to the point of showing up on liver enzyme test it can be improved mainly two ways. You can improve liver function by cleaning it up directly or by increasing your circulation. Increasing your circulation with some form of aerobic excercise would act more like a patch, where you feel better for awhile. Cleaning the liver out, if long term stagnation is the problem is of course the long term answer. Here is a link to one of many websites that has a preaty good understanding of liver function and what the symptoms would be of a poorly functioning liver. There are a whole lot more out there. http://www.sensiblehealth.com/index.html
One of the things I find really interesting about this is that I keep seeing the repeating theme that depending on which side the CFS/Fibro is dominant, some people strongly benefit from aerobic excercise, while it makes others much worse. If there was a issue of having a congested liver, that would make allot of sense depending on the degree of congestion as to whether improving circulation would get you a net gain or cause more of a problem because there is not enough left that is uncongested to push.
Another thing I find curious about this possible liver issue is that Malic Acid is frequently recommended for Fibro and CFS because it is supposed to allow the muscles to operate better in a anaerobic condition, which they say is one of the problems were having with our muscles. They are not getting enough oxygen. Well, what is funny about that is that first I have to ask myself why they are not getting enough oxygen. But a even stranger coincidence is that you will see Malic acid listed as the primary substance to help break down liver congestion between flushings.
Sorry about the long post, but I wanted to add the thing about the arm sores. Six years ago I got really sick on top of the CFS/Fibro. I was nausous all the time. My breathing got real bad. I was frequently light headed and dizzy, far worse then before. Both of my arms broke out in sores that would not heal up. I had no insurance. By the time I got coverage 3 years ago I was a total wreck.
I staggered into my new doctors office and found out I was in stroke level blood pressure again. I asked him why I was so naseously ill and what those arm sores were. He couldn't tell me. He just figured it was a nervous problem or something. I knew enough about natural medicine that I told him that my gut feeling was that the nausea, the high blood pressure and the sores that would not heal were all connected. I felt I was somehow toxicaly being poisoned. I repeated this mantra for two years while he ran heart test, lung test, blood test, X-rays, CT scans. The whole time I was so sick I could barely leave the house. He would warn me everytime to be careful how much I exerted myself because I was at high risk for a stroke or heart attack.
After two years of preaty much negative test, I got sick of being so sick I spent my days going from my computer to my bed. I walked out of the house and started dragging myself around all day. Every half hour I would drink a glass of water and keep trudgeing. Inside of one month heres what happened. The sores all cleared up. My blood pressure dropped to dead normal off medications. The nausea went away. My cholesterol dropped from 360 to 160. Tryglicerides dropped from 475 to 110.
Upon seeing the change, my Doctor very soberly and apologeticaly admitted that I had been right all along. Something, somehow was toxicaly poisoning my body. To this day we still do not know what it is. But if I stop drinking all that water, those arm sores and high blood pressure start coming back and my sick feeling gets worse. And no test can pick up what is happening.
Personaly, my gut feeling is that I am not being poisoned nearly as much as my body is building up toxins because something is not working right to remove them. Is it the liver? My Doctor told me there was only one reason he could see that walking all the time and drinking all of that water could have reversed that many symptoms. He said it was allowing my liver to clear itself. So even he thinks it is the liver / toxicity connection that is the culprit, even though blood test don't back it up.
I would simply suggest that if any of this interest you, that you read all you can read on Liver Stagnation and liver flushing on every site you can find and then make a as much as possible informed decision on what to do with it.
As for me, I am going with it because preaty much what I found out in the last 13 years is there is not a whole lot of help out there in the Medical Profession if were ever going to get some semblance of a normal life back. So all we can do is read, read, read, and make our choices on what were going to do. Its a hard and long fight however we look at it or go about it, but its 99 percent on us to get it done, if there is any hope.
What I mean by core cause is that it seems some massive stress factor or factors brings on the Fibro/CFS in most people. In me it was a mental breakdown. If I trace what condition I was in before the mental breakdown it comes down to two things. I was under a huge amount of stress for allot of years, but as long as I worked outside, doing physicaly demanding work I was basicaly okay. Six months before the breakdown I took a office job. In that six months I sat behind a desk I gained 50 pounds, my cholesterol and tryglicerides shot through the roof and my blood pressure went to high stroke out level. I also felt increasingly ill, naseous, headaches, gross fatigue. The combination of my physical health deteriateing and the years of mental stress caused the breakdown. The breakdown brought on the CFS and Fibro symptoms.
Okay, so what does that all have to do with the liver then? If you do searches on "Liver Stagnation Symptoms" or "Liver Flush" you will find a amazing correlation between those symptoms and the array of symptoms with CFS/Fibro. Of course that is not the only topic you get big correlation hits on symptoms.
In my case, the first 7 years of this I was able to hold it somewhat in check with excercise. As long as I went down and did swimming everyday and was able to get massage work I felt much better. The last 6 years this no longer works for me. Something has progressed to where seriously increasing my circulation everyday doesn't make me feel normal for a few hours anymore.
If the liver is stagnant, which essentialy means plugged up, but not to the point of showing up on liver enzyme test it can be improved mainly two ways. You can improve liver function by cleaning it up directly or by increasing your circulation. Increasing your circulation with some form of aerobic excercise would act more like a patch, where you feel better for awhile. Cleaning the liver out, if long term stagnation is the problem is of course the long term answer. Here is a link to one of many websites that has a preaty good understanding of liver function and what the symptoms would be of a poorly functioning liver. There are a whole lot more out there. http://www.sensiblehealth.com/index.html
One of the things I find really interesting about this is that I keep seeing the repeating theme that depending on which side the CFS/Fibro is dominant, some people strongly benefit from aerobic excercise, while it makes others much worse. If there was a issue of having a congested liver, that would make allot of sense depending on the degree of congestion as to whether improving circulation would get you a net gain or cause more of a problem because there is not enough left that is uncongested to push.
Another thing I find curious about this possible liver issue is that Malic Acid is frequently recommended for Fibro and CFS because it is supposed to allow the muscles to operate better in a anaerobic condition, which they say is one of the problems were having with our muscles. They are not getting enough oxygen. Well, what is funny about that is that first I have to ask myself why they are not getting enough oxygen. But a even stranger coincidence is that you will see Malic acid listed as the primary substance to help break down liver congestion between flushings.
Sorry about the long post, but I wanted to add the thing about the arm sores. Six years ago I got really sick on top of the CFS/Fibro. I was nausous all the time. My breathing got real bad. I was frequently light headed and dizzy, far worse then before. Both of my arms broke out in sores that would not heal up. I had no insurance. By the time I got coverage 3 years ago I was a total wreck.
I staggered into my new doctors office and found out I was in stroke level blood pressure again. I asked him why I was so naseously ill and what those arm sores were. He couldn't tell me. He just figured it was a nervous problem or something. I knew enough about natural medicine that I told him that my gut feeling was that the nausea, the high blood pressure and the sores that would not heal were all connected. I felt I was somehow toxicaly being poisoned. I repeated this mantra for two years while he ran heart test, lung test, blood test, X-rays, CT scans. The whole time I was so sick I could barely leave the house. He would warn me everytime to be careful how much I exerted myself because I was at high risk for a stroke or heart attack.
After two years of preaty much negative test, I got sick of being so sick I spent my days going from my computer to my bed. I walked out of the house and started dragging myself around all day. Every half hour I would drink a glass of water and keep trudgeing. Inside of one month heres what happened. The sores all cleared up. My blood pressure dropped to dead normal off medications. The nausea went away. My cholesterol dropped from 360 to 160. Tryglicerides dropped from 475 to 110.
Upon seeing the change, my Doctor very soberly and apologeticaly admitted that I had been right all along. Something, somehow was toxicaly poisoning my body. To this day we still do not know what it is. But if I stop drinking all that water, those arm sores and high blood pressure start coming back and my sick feeling gets worse. And no test can pick up what is happening.
Personaly, my gut feeling is that I am not being poisoned nearly as much as my body is building up toxins because something is not working right to remove them. Is it the liver? My Doctor told me there was only one reason he could see that walking all the time and drinking all of that water could have reversed that many symptoms. He said it was allowing my liver to clear itself. So even he thinks it is the liver / toxicity connection that is the culprit, even though blood test don't back it up.
I would simply suggest that if any of this interest you, that you read all you can read on Liver Stagnation and liver flushing on every site you can find and then make a as much as possible informed decision on what to do with it.
As for me, I am going with it because preaty much what I found out in the last 13 years is there is not a whole lot of help out there in the Medical Profession if were ever going to get some semblance of a normal life back. So all we can do is read, read, read, and make our choices on what were going to do. Its a hard and long fight however we look at it or go about it, but its 99 percent on us to get it done, if there is any hope.
I have fibro and you are the first one on this forum to mention sores on the arm... I too suffer from this and have been to a couple of dermatologists. I have had different diagnosis' from them.. ranging from sun allergies to a mental/nervous disorder. My arms itch and break out and then clear up and with each break out it seems to leave scarring. It's only on my right arm.. really weird. But that arm is the one always in the sun while in the car. I haven't had any answers on this and I was really surprised to read your post. I am very scared to do take any extra meds..because I am on a lot of prescribed stuff at the moment. I did ask my Dr. about magnesium and he thought it wouldn't be necessary. I do drink a lot of water.. haven't ever heard about a liver flush. What exactly does that involve? Thanks
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