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Recurrent gall stones in the bile duct after gall bladder removal

I had my gall bladder out in 2003.  Since then I have had recurrent gall stones that get stuck in my bile duct and have to be removed by ERCP.  It didn't happen until 2005.  Then it was close to another year and it happened again.  Since then I have had to have this done 1 to 2 times per year.  I have gotten pretty sick a couple of times, but mostly my doctor schedules me in time before that happens.  He is very much trying to convince me to have an operation that attaches my bile duct to my intestines.  He says that he is almost certain that will solve the problem.  I have tried every supplement and homeopathic remedy known to man to stop the stones from forming without any long-term success.  The ursodial I take 600 mg 3 times per day slows it down a little, but doesn't really fix the problem.  After having the ERCP I usually feel pretty goood for about 5 months then I start getting symptoms again and have to have it done again.  There is no real explanation as to why it keeps happening.  Now they are saying it must be genetic.  The problem I have is that the operation is major surgery and there is still no guarantee that it will work.  I met with the surgeon once and he told me that it won't stop the stones but they will be able to move through easier and more directly.  He said that if they get stuck after the operation, the only way to get them through would be to stick something through my back and push them through that way.  It seems that so far the ERCP is a better alternative.  I have had difficulty finding much information on this operation.  My stones are all cholesterol stones and everything else is normal.  Does anyone have any information on this re: is there any way to stop the stones from forming, is the operation the best option, how I can get more information on this happening to people and how they made out if they got the operation, etc.  Thanks for any help you can give me.              
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Avatar universal
My doctor essentially told me in almost all cases they are stones left behind ....especially when the gall bladder has sever infection and has exploded or something like mine did.  He said he wouldn't even run a test ...he would go back in....because most people suffer a long time due to tests not showing a LARGE percentage of stones so he wouldn't waste his time.  He said if I felt like it was one...it was.  That is not a feeling I could ever forget or wonder about!
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I had my gallbladder out over two years ago and for the last two weeks, I am having the same pain I had when I had a gallbladder. I went to the ER and the ran diagnostic and lab test and they found nothing. I went to my PC and she thinks it may be a stone stuck in the sphincter. I am have an Endo next Thurs. Is this common after a gallbladder removal??
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I had my gallbladder taking out 5 months back. I still have pain in right under ribs and back, yellow stools and now I have thyroid issues called thyroidtoxcosis elevated t3 hormones. I see and endocarnologist in about three weeks. I personally think there is liver and thyroid connection with being unable to digest fats properly after the surgery that has caused this condition. so far I can only wait and see for my next appointment. Oh and thyroidtoxcosis is a hyper state so I'm anxious,irritated, have full blown insomnia. My doctor prescribed me xanax and trazadon for sleeping aid. I've stopped taking trazadon because I don't like the way it makes me feel but the xanax does help tremendously with anxiety.Also,I found out about my thyroid because I had crick in upper right side of neck one morning when I woke up. Has not gone away for 3 months. Also I'm 31, male.What did your endocrin say?
Last night was my first attack in 20 years! I knew exactly what it was, EXACTLY! After dealing with the attacks for almost a 2 & a half before doctors figured out what it was, ( going to the ER twice,  )20 years ago. 20 years ago is when I had my gallbladder,  when I was in high school. Both my grandmothers had had there is removed, one had hers removed twice. With difficulties all her life. She lived until she was 93 always having  to watch what she ate otherwise she would get sick. I just got up this morning clicked on Siri & said, "gallbladder is growing back and getting stones again " i'm calling the doctor on Monday. I don't care if it's before Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanza or Festivus! This needs to get fixed, and fixed it now! I'm not going through the 2 &1/2 years + of torture that I did 20 years ago!  I'll keep everyone updated as things proceed. Or any new updates the doctor has when I talk to him. I hope y'all make it through the night pain-free!
Avatar universal
INDEED!! Far too many doctors are still NOT listening to anything that doesn't fit in their paradigm and/or specialty. ER docs above ALL need to listen to what the patient is saying and get the needed specialists opinion. Good professionals always admit when they don't know and promptly find out! Helps everyone in the long run.
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Avatar universal
I had multiple stones form in my bile duct AFTER gb removal, my bile duct was cut open during open surgery at the time of gb removal, so there was no chance the stones were left behind, i actually made more in the bile ducts, ercps to remove them were all unsuccessful, so i was given 2 choices have more surgery to cut open ducts and remove stones, BUT expect this surgery everytime i produce more stones which could be every 1-2 years !! or have a biliary bypass, i chose the biliary bypass, so now when i produce stones they pass straight in to my bowel and dont block anything.
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Avatar universal
I had my gall bladder removed in 95. In 2003 I started having what's called gall bladder attacks. Only difference that I began to throw up with them. Each time going to Er. Each time being told they could not find anything. Some even told me I was making it up. So I just dealt with the pain, thinking I might be crazy...haha in 2009 after the pain not going away and throwing up for days I went back in to the er and told the doctor this is going to sound crazy but I'm having gall bladder attacks with no gall bladder. He said your not crazy I know what it is.. He went in and removed them. They came back about 5 months later. He went in again and put a stint in. Again they came back. So he went on and cut the opening up so the larger ones could past. Finally no more problems until just this past month. Again go to the er, told the Dr what it was and to plz contact the Dr . he said no need to bc that can't happen. I refused their pain meds n ask to be released. Thinking in my head ....here we go again. I was only home 2 days and had to go back. This time the Dr listen to me even tho the ct showed nothing. He admitted me called the Dr I had ask for. And ended up removing a 1.4 cm stone among other smaller ones. I think doctors and ppl having these problems should be made aware this does happen. The dr cut it open more and put me on meds to slow it down. I hope someone will find a cause and cure for this problem.. But 1st they must be made aware of it.
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Avatar universal
I had my gallbladder removed 5 months ago and my gallbladder had practical disinter grated so was very messy and two stones were left behind. The were fine I. The small duct but moved into the main duct and caused horrendous  pain again. One stone was removed by endoscopy but the other one is stuck fast and has  to be 'blasted'. This is sing done in a few days time, so it seems this is the problem you have.
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Avatar universal
Hello...if anyone is still active on this thread, I  would love to hear if you have found solutions. I had my gall bladder out 20 yrs ago. Three days later i was in the ER with the severe “attack” pains in my chest, upper back, right shoulder. I was told I had sludgy bile. Not too long after that I was diagnosed with Sphincter of Oddi Disorder. That began a snowball of events over the past 20 yrs. Now my pancreatic sphincter has been involved & I now have had 17 ERCP’s with many sphincterotomies (with stents) of both the common bile duct Sphincter of Oddi & pancreatic sphincter. The causes were sludgy bile, scarring with stenosis from previous sphincterotomies, stones, and biliary spasms. I have also had the biliary bypass (or Sphincteroplasty) 15 yrs ago. I have temporary relief from the ERCP’s & surgery but the “attack” pains come back. I’ve also had pancreatitis many times after ERCP’s and from blockage in the duct. The pancreatitis has now turned to Chronic Pancreatitis which requires frequent hospitalizations.
Anyone who reads this can understand the pain & frustration that arises from diagnosing & treating this problem. It is also isolating as no one else can understand the pain, especially those times when it may not be obvious that there is real problems: like when lab values don’t elevate right away or xrays & scans look normal. So, would be great to chat with anyone who knows the pain and may have some ideas to help. Thx .
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Avatar universal
Hello...I know this is a long shot as this was posted 10yrs ago. But, I was searching for info for my bile duct problems and your post popped up. My symptoms are exact to yours and I did have the surgery to reconnect the bile duct so stone could pass through. So, I’m wondering if you had the surgery or how you feel now. Thx!
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Avatar universal
My sister had the same problem after gall bladder removal. Twice s year she had ERCP done. Last year she figuered out why it was happening.Now she is pain free and stone free and no more ERCP. The answer for her is taking her cholesterol meds. Hope this helps!
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What cholesterol meds is your sister taking?   How is she doing now?
Avatar universal
brigitte425, I am so glad to find more people like me.  I had my gallbladder removed in 2014 and since then I have had 8 ERCPs over the last 3 years for biliary duct stones.  I have tried low sodium, low fat, low cholesterol diets and nothing seems to help.  I take milk thistle, aloe vera gel, krill oil, and digestive bitters.  Nothing helps.  Does anyone have any recommendations?
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I had my gallbladder removed in February of 2017. Had 3 ERCPs done. August, November and December of 2017. The first ERCP, I ended up with Pancreatitis. Doctor doesn't know why I keep forming stones. If I keep getting them and keep having ERCPs, I'm gonna ask my doctor about having the bile duct removal surgery.
Avatar universal
I am a colon Hydrotherapist I suggest you try colonics I have gotten out pancreatic and gall stones out of my clients via he viewing tube (Brunelle method closed system) and they have formed wth stool around them on the colon walls especially along transverse (under your ribs) and descending and gather around sigmoid and can block so badly you only have a bowel movement every week or more. The stones are painful to pass however combined with stone target specific fasting, enema's and colonics you can remove all stones from the body without surgery or painkillers I also suggest taking olive leaf extract for a period of 3 -4 weeks as that will kill any infection present. I have photos as a client of mine had the speculum physically pushed out by these Boulder like stones covered in putrefied stool matter and thick mucus. I went through the matter on the table (there was an explosion) and found pancreatic stones the size of almonds they bounce when you drop them. She had 6 clustered in her sigmoid blocking her from having bowel movements we have since cleared the blockage after a long haul of fasting and back to back colonics we managed to clear two blockages in her sigmoid and descending colon. Visible distension in her middle lower abdomen reduced significantly after 2 treatments where the blockages were cleared. Before her tummy was hard and bloated very swollen and distended. Now it is soft and she has lost inches from that area. Good luck
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Avatar universal
I have had this problem for a long time.i have had 6 ERCP's. the symptoms are recurring at shorter intervals and now they want me to try ursodiol. I have been resistant because of the cost and because it may not work. I just can't see taking this med forever but if it does work I guess it would be worth it. Anyone else taking this med?
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Avatar universal
I have the same problem with recurring gall stones after gall bladder removal. every six months for three times I get infected and blocked bile duct and must get an ercp. my gastro wants me to get a whipple operation to eliminate the bile duct to then put the stones which originate in the liver into the small intestine. that is such a serious operation I am balking at it but promised him I would do it after this next time. I am feeling the symptoms now after six months. I have gone vegan and gluten free drink two liters of water at least a day and am wondering what else I can do. hard to know what is worse an ercp twice a year or the whipple. because of infection  in the cholangitis better get the whipple perhaps.my last infection was a drug resistant ecoli that was hard to treat and with super bugs now recurrent infection might be best avoided.ursodiol did nothing I could see.
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1 Comments
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/homoeopathy.pdf
Avatar universal
I'm so glad I found this...I had gall bladder moved March I kept getting infections once removed which they kept putting down to stent which was nit removed till last week which they found a stone stuck and more stones which shocked me because thought stones were removed when bladder was in March it's caused me nothing but stress as it took them about 3 months to detect first stones I had kept sending me away at one point few weeks after  stones were finally dignoised I had a flare up went a and e they said they had no records of me having them made me feel like I was lying they sent me home at 2 am asked me come back 2 days later fir s scan I live in diff town to a and e and don't drive to be told wen did have scan a stone was stuck :(
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Avatar universal
I have been constapation for  3weeks my stomach is bloated and it cramps me bad and in the pit  of  my stomach and wat can I take for  the constapation
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Avatar universal
Had my gallbladder out in 2012,pains under my rib last Dec and they discovered, there were2 stones in the bile duct,each got rid of 1 ,but the other one was stuck between the pancerous and the liver, between then and now I've had 3 mrcb's 3 ercp's and a stint inserted to widen the bile duct, and they still can't find anything wrong ,last week had a endoscopic ultrasound, and that came back clear, but the pain is much worse  and it's a week since it was done, I'm in pain every day which is just under my right rib and down the right side of my back , the 2 different consultants have said I just have to live with the pain ,
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Avatar universal
I had surgery to remove stones from my bile duct approx 9 years ago.
My 1st gastroenterologist did not believe me.....because they only scanned my gall bladder which was clear - not my bile duct! She accused me of being alcoholic because of my raised liver enzymes... even though I told her I was teetotal! She told me the pain I was experiencing sounded like a stitch!! and there was nothing wrong with me.... Thanks to her I endured that pain 2 years until I was admitted as an emergency when the pain was so bad I could not sit or stand or hardly breath. Luckily I had moved area by then so was under a different gastroenterologist.
My bile duct stones were 2cm diameter! I hold that 1st woman responsible for that. The stones were Cholesterol based.
They could not remove by ercp (they did the procedure twice to try) so I had to have surgery to cut the bile duct open. I wanted to keep my gall bladder as it was clear and healthy but they insisted on removing it at the same time :(  That was about 9 years ago.
I also got severe heartburn before and after surgery (and no meds helped) and found it was possibly a gluten intolerance so I stopped eating gluten and don't get that any more. I then went vegan which had reduced my cholesterol levels drastically so I am hoping it will also reduce my chance of forming more cholesterol stones. After my surgery I had a dull pain in the area for 6 whole months. They were baffled so did an MRI. My bile duct had stayed the size of the stones which they could not understand and insisted it would eventually go back down to the diameter of a straw. The dull pain did fade with time. I've had 2 painful bouts lasting just a few hours since - possibly passing a stone? But thankfully no blockages yet!
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I'm glad you mentioned the gluten.  I had my gallbladder out years ago.  I started having a lot of pain a few years after.  Doctor after doctor told me heartburn.  I suffered for over a year before I finally starting turning yellow and they checked my liver enzymes.  I found a new doctor and through ct scan they found my bile duct was over double in size.  Had emergency ERCP the next day.  The surgeon found many stones and sludge.  He said that some people, although rare, still form stones after surgery.  After looking at some old bloodwork from years prior, I noticed that my celiac bloodwork came back borderline, and not straight negative like I was told.  My new doctor told me to try going gluten free for at least 5 months to see if I notice any difference.  I was having some pain a few months after my ERCP that felt like stones, only not as severe--probably due to the sphinctorotomy they had done.  When I finally commited to going gluten free, my pain has stopped.  May be coincidence, but the not being in pain feels so good that I remain gluten free.  My few slip ups have resulted in swelling, headaches, tendonitis, and more discomfort in my chest where I had the bile duct pain.  I would say going gluten free is worth a try.  Celiacs have a much higher occurance of gall bladder and liver problems.  
Avatar universal
My father's gall bladder was removed in 2010.. But after five years..he felt severe abdominal pain ..when doctors did ultrasound they found that gall bladder is still there...they operated again...but the things were not over..at present after 7 months of surgery when he undergone ultra sound test report says that again there is gall bladder.. So if this happened with anyone plz share the treatment..
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Avatar universal
I took advil and then motrin for a very long time. It is probably what caused my microscopic cholitis for a variety of pain issues. My naturopath agrees that marijuana helps and has fewer side effects than long term than usaids. I only use it before bed though as I really need to be able to function during the day.

My gallbladder was taken out in 1984 & now 5 weeks ago, June, 2016 I have had acute pancreatitis with an 8 day hospital stay. The stents will be replaced or removed in a few days, depending on if they find an residual stones in the common bile duct. I had NO idea that stones could form without a gallbladder. I had gallstone symptoms for a while before I went in with the pancreatitis. This time they also did a sphincterotomy. We need every duct, organ and muscle in our bodies & they will be affected when you don't have them...even tonsils and appendix! The latter are part of your immune system. But removing or cutting is always better than to risk dying, so do your research & get the best docs you can!
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Avatar universal
I took advil and then motrin for a very long time. It is probably what caused my microscopic cholitis for a variety of pain issues, so get a lot of advice before using nsaids for long periods.  My naturopath agrees that marijuana helps and has fewer side effects than long term than nsaids. I only use it before bed though as I really need to be able to function at peak levels during the day.

My gallbladder was taken out in 1984 & now 5 weeks ago, June, 2016 I have had acute pancreatitis caused by stones formed in the common bile duct with an 8 day hospital stay. The stents will be replaced or removed in a few days, depending on if they find an residual stones in the common bile duct. I had NO idea that stones could form without a gallbladder. I had gallstone symptoms for a while before I went in with the pancreatitis. This time they also did a sphincterotomy. We need every duct, organ and muscle in our bodies & they will be affected when you don't have them...even tonsils and appendix! The latter are part of your immune system. But removing or cutting is always better than to risk dying, so do your research & get the best docs you can!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I had my gall bladder out almost a year ago.  Since then I have had 4 or 5 attacks that feel like a gall bladder attack. Went to the ER several times, my liver enzymes were double.  Five days later normal readings, sometimes I feel like some of the medical community do not believe me and it is so frustrating. I did have an upper endoscopy  this week because of other stomach issues.  I was telling the surgeon about these attacks and he is only the second professional that believes me.  He said if they  continue he would like to do an ERCP. I do feel somewhat better knowing there are other people out there dealing with the same thing, at least now I don't feel like it is all in my head.
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Avatar universal
I'm so glad I found this post.  Last night I had what I can only describe as a gal bladder attack, even though my gal bladder was removed back in November.  I occasionally have had muscle spasms in the area where the gal bladder used to be, but this is the first time it felt like an attack.  When my gal bladder was removed, I had a 2nd emergency procedure to remove stones from the bile duct.  I wonder if they have returned.  I wasn't going to call my doctor, but now after reading about everyone else's stories, I think I will.
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1 Comments
I would call your doctor see if he can do an endoscopy and a possible ercp. I am having this done in the next couple of days and my doctor is going to play for stent in my bile duct which opens up the passageway to let the stones flow through now and in the future. Good luck with it I had my gallbladder out 2 and have been in severe pain at least 5 times
Avatar universal
I've had my appendix out, my gall bladder out, and now my recurring problem is kidney stones.  I wish I hadn't been so hasty to have my gall bladder removed because before my surgery I found that I could eat whatever I wanted as long as I drank plenty of water.  I know I've flushed out kidney stones.  I've figured out that the cause of my kidney stones is high fructose corn syrup in some of my favorite foods like fig bars which I've given up.  I would not be surprised if that had something to do with my gall stones.
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my kidney stones stopped after I began to drink at least two liters of water each day. I am large so i try to drink three liters... after starting this in june within two weeks I passed a large stone and haven't been bothered again.  a lot of water daily helps a lot of things.
Avatar universal
I had multiple stones form in my bile duct AFTER gb removal, my bile duct was cut open during open surgery at the time of gb removal, so there was no chance the stones were left behind, i actually made more in the bile ducts, ercps to remove them were all unsuccessful, so i was given 2 choices have more surgery to cut open ducts and remove stones, BUT expect this surgery everytime i produce more stones which could be every 1-2 years !! or have a biliary bypass, i chose the biliary bypass, so now when i produce stones they pass straight in to my bowel and dont block anything.
Helpful - 0
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