Any dangers if I choose non-surgery?

History of gall bladder trouble, but symptoms have significantly escalated in the last month.  My HIDA scan results: 4%.  No stones.
If I can manage the symptoms with diet and bile thinners, etc, what could be the possible consequences of continued bladder dysfunction, lack of bile, or stress on gall bladder?  
Could you recommend something specifically to take to support the gall bladder?  
Thank you very much.  Laraine

[tetleytea]

4% is awfully low.  You you endanger the surrounding digestive organs, like the pancreas, liver, duodenum, etc..   But I am a strong believer in Ursodiol and LOTS of lemon juice + olive oil for dissolving stones, if it's not urgent.  That way you get to keep the bladder.  Except that your contraction is so bad, I'm not sure it's not urgent.

Anyway, physicians typically prescribe Ursodiol for dissolving stones only when surgery is ruled out as unsafe.  Which I think is wrong--it should be the FIRST resort, not the last.  I think the health care industry is a bit biased, because there's a lot more money in surgeries than there is in office visits.

The olive oil treatment is to take 2 tbsp olive oil when you get up and when you go to bed, plus 1 tbsp natural lemon juice, but that's usually more a preventative than a treatment.  However, some people have found success with this in much higher doses.  It's called something like a "stone flush".  You get out 1 cup olive oil, and squeeze 4-5 lemons into it, and then you take 2 tbsp olive oil every 20 minutes until it runs out; and you time it so your last dose is about the time you go to bed.  So you would start around 7pm.  It can be nauseating to do this (I did it, but I don't think gall bladder is my problem).  The next morning you will have lots of bowel movement/discomfort, but people have said they found as many as 200 stones in the toilet; some bigger than you would expect could even fit through a bile duct.   I have heard conflicting stories whether you run the risk of "flushing" a stone out of your gall bladder only to get it stuck in your bile duct, but if you're worried about that, I would suggest the dissolving and/or standard night & day olive oil treatment for awhile first.

There's also a "Planetary Stone Free" herbal blend of turmeric, peppermint, etc. available on the web and on the shelves.  I don't know how effective that is (although I DO know turmeric helps relieve liver-related itching), but if your doctor won't prescribe Urso it may be one of your only options to try.

I think all this stuff is great for people who don't have gall bladder problems at clinical levels, but like I said, you're 4%.  I know that, if I was in your situation, I would be going nuts on the olive oil for a few weeks first.   I think on the Planet Stone Free bottle it says on the label, "if experiencing harsh pain, take 5 pills every 20 minutes and pray you can avoid surgery".  They obviously don't think it is possible to overdose on their stuff.   I *KNOW* it is not possible to overdose on olive oil and lemons.

[Laraine07]

Thanks for your response.  I have done the olive oil cleanse several times in the past (I'm 62)  But as I say I don't have any gallstones, according to more than one test.  
I don't know yet whether it is inflammation, muscle coordination or other problem that is causing the 4%.  A CT scan and ultrasound show nothing else remarkable anywhere in the stomach/abdomen.  
I would really like to keep my gall bladder if at all possible without causing more harm.

[tetleytea]

4% contraction but no stones?   I don't see why that would pose any more danger than not having one at all.   Of course, if you're only contracting 4% you would be prone to gall stones later on.  I would think that regular prophylactic treatments should do you fine.

[mr.lucky66]

If it ain't broke.. don't fix it. I wouldn't worry about surgery now.

[Jaybay]

The danger is that the gallbladder isn't contracting enough to get rid of the bile.  Eventually, that's going to make your liver very unhappy.  You mention your symptoms have escalated lately.  What specifically is going on?  

I was in a similar situation as you - symptoms, but no stones.  My ejection fraction was low, but not as bad as yours.  I had to beg the surgeon to take a peek inside to get to the bottom of the symptoms because a week's worth of tests showed nothing.  As it turned out, my gb was very infected and ready to rupture at any time.  Because of the infection, I also developed severe scar tissue on the gb, liver and surrounding small intestines.  I've been fighting that scar tissue and subsequent bowel obstructions for 10 years.  

So yes, there are consequences to putting off a needed surgery.  GB surgery is pretty straightforward and simple as far as surgeries go, but can quickly get complicated if you wait too long and the gb ruptures.  Then you're looking at peritonitis and possible sepsis, and like me - a belly full of adhesions.  My vote: listen to your doctors.

[Laraine07]

Your observations and personal experience are definitely food for thought.  I've been having mild distress in the middle upper stomach under the ribcage for 8 to 10 years.  I always thought it was hiatal hernia, but there was none in the CT scan.  Now it is more intense, along with a kind of general bloating and pressure I've never experienced before, aching back, no nausea though.  It's still possible these symptoms have nothing to do with the gall bladder.  The HIDA scan did not produce those same symptoms.  There are so many other possibilities, I suppose, but the fact remains, that even if the gb isn't causing the symptoms, there's still a big problem with it that I'm guessing needs to be dealt with.  

[Laraine07]

Again, thanks for your input, and so sorry you had to find all that out the hard way!   So this all went on for 10 years before your surgery?  The same with me.

[Laraine07]

You commented in another post about "bile staying in the bladder too long"  Aside from possible stone formation, what danger does that in itself pose?  Your GB was infected and I'm assuming that condition caused the scarring of adjacent organs.  My point is, that I'm not opposed to having it removed if the Dr sees it as necessary, but she is out of town, and booked up so that I probably won't be able to be scheduled for surgery for at least 3 weeks.  Meanwhile, I'm keeping my symptoms mostly under control by taking Nexium.  The only sure evidence there seems to be that my GB is the problem is the 4% ejection rate.  The CCK injection did not duplicate my symptoms at all.  I don't know how much damage/infection/scar tissue might show up on a CT scan, but as far as I know, there was nothing in particular that showed up.
So in the midst of all this uncertainty, I'm wondering if there's no hurry or I should get into another surgeon pronto because of the 4%.

[Jaybay]

Sorry I haven't been around much lately and almost missed your posts.  :-)  

If bile doesn't get ejected on a regular basis, it simply allows it to get thicker and thicker and eventually form stones.  Sometimes that sandy, sludgy bile can get stuck in the common bile duct and cause not only liver and gallbladder problems, but a nasty case of pancreatitis as well.  The liver and pancreas both share the common bile duct where it empties into the duodenum, so if that area is blocked with sludge, those organs have a really tough time doing what they need to do.  The pancreas in particular gets touchy, because if it can't empty it's supply of digestive enzymes, it basically digests itself resulting in pancreatitis.

My father had gallbladder symptoms for a good 20 years and refused to tell his doctor about it.  I remember him drinking half a bottle of Maalox every day since I was a small child.  He convinced himself he would be forced to have a barium enema and no way was that going to happen.  Well, all those years of ignoring the problem resulted in many barium enemas.  His gallbladder had turned cancerous and by the time he was diagnosed it was too late.  He died less than 6 months after diagnosis and it was not an easy death.  Gallbladder adenocarcinoma is very rare because most people have their gallbladders removed when they become symptomatic.  His doctors said the constant irritation and inflammation of his gb over that many years likely caused the cancer to form.

Only my opinion, but I wouldn't waste too much more time consulting another surgeon.

[mr.lucky66]

Always sound advise from Jaybay. Don't listen to that person jep who thinks the AMA has a conspiracy to push laproscopic surgery. It has worked well for me and I doing fine 5over a month later. all the best

[tristas]

I had my gallbladder removed 5 years ago after having infected stones.  I felt so much better after having that surgery.

[scaredtodeathinSC]

I too had Gallbladder type symptoms without the stones. Most of my tests came back negative. Luckily I listened to my surgeon and had the surgery anyway. What he found was a very "diseased gallbladder" that was causing much infection and inflamation (inflammation) that would have only gotten worse. The surgery was simple and quick to heal. I am so glad I had the procedure. I feel 100% better and thank God every day that I listened to my doctor.

[scaredtodeathinSC]

Jaybay are you a physician? You sound like you have a lot of experience with some of these posts. Can you please look at my post from yesterday and answer it? I haven't gotten any responses and am really looking for some suggestions/guidance.

Thanks

[ireland1961]

I have been in the US for 12 years from Ireland.  Told numberous times I have IBS and hernia.  Everytime I went for GB tests, everything came back negative.  A week ago I turned pure yellow and my urine turned brown with a terrible odour.  I thought I had hepatitis A., as I had it as a child.  Decided to have surgery last Friday, the GB was acutely inflammed and infected.  The Dr. told me I was a very lucky girl. I  didn't have awful pain, but felt sick to my stomach.  I had pain under my right rib and out through my back on both sides.  Do not go by tests, they don't always show everything., go by your instinct.  I did, it has been a week today since surgery and I out walking my dog and back to normal.