Chirrosis ?!

[Arne]

Please help ! Wondring about possible chirrosis - feel confused and scared.

I am 45, male, overweigt 210 lbs /176 cm. Had a period with a lot of drinking from 19 to 30, then reduced to a almost nothing today with long periods of complete dryness (2 x10 weeks a year for 10 years due to job). Have never been a daily drinker.

Symptoms:

A kind of fatigue for 4 weeks

A kind of mouth dryness

Some discomfort from area under right ribcage with pulsation
and noise during night.

Some pain radiating to my back no and then.

GERD symptoms /oesufagus reflux for many years. Lot of acid.

A lot of worrying about health.

Had a problem with liverpain and fatigue after a lot of drinking under a journey in 2000. 2 month later doctors test: (Bloodworks,ultrasound, upper GI and colon contrast.)
says all to be normal.

And conclusion was no alcoholic hepatit, no
palpabel liver and he recomend stop drinking. I reduced, almost stop and have bloodworks (liver/panchreas/heartenzymes) done every 6 months from then. Always with no elevation or bad values.

Can (alcoholic) chirrosis develop regardless of these tests
and what symptoms should I expect. I am scared by this possibility and have decided not to taste any alcohol ever agian.My doctor says that the results from the bloodworks is not indicative for a biopsy.

Will cronic panchreatitis have a cronic pain ?


I hope some may feel that they can add some info. Are there
other test that should be carried out ?

Best regards

[davr]

I feel for you, alot.  I'm in the same situation.  36 yrs, heavy drinker for 12, only occasionally the last 2yrs, and nothing last 6 months.

All my blood tests came back golden as well.  Haven't had an ultrasound yet, but will push for one when I go in next month.

I also have the dull ache under the right ribs, weakness, muscle aches, impotence, and for the last year or so, if I even tough alcohol, I start itching for a bout a week afterwards, and the ache under the right ribs increases in frequency and duration.

Doc told me it was stress and prescribed Paxil for me.  Also said probably developed alergy (allergy) to alcohol, and said moderate drinking would be no problem for me.

I'm upset for believing him.  It takes less and less as time goes on to bring the symptoms on.  Mental?  Possibly, but I highly doubt it.  

At the time doc said he could "rule out" liver problems.  He is a fool for saying so, and I'm a fool for believing him and for ever putting myself in a position where I could even be worried about it.  Nobody to blame but myself.  I do wish I knew then what I know now, however.

Unfortunately, I believe the only real way to "rule out" liver problems or get a true measure of what the condition of the liver is with a biopsy, and we'll have a tough time getting one of those without any irregular tests.  I've read too many instances of persons with completely normal Liver Function Tests, etc, having later been shown to actually have liver disease.

I'm scared as hell, as you are.

One word of advice though.  DON'T let the stess get to you.  Get a prescription if need be.  I wound up in an emergency room 2 nights in a row with chest pain, and what was later diagnosed as panic attacks......all because of worrying over my health.  Most miserable period of my life.

[Arne]

Thanks for responding! It is really good to share these problems with others who have experienced much of the same.

Davr what kind of weakness do you feel ? For the moment I think this is my main symptom. A sort of loss of spirit or
a real physical reduction of power? I think mine is related
to a type of depressiv feeling that everything I should do seems to heavy. And I am wakening with a feeling of tiredness.

My pain under right Rib I have almost eliminated by use of
Molkosan - a milkconcentrate from Schweitz. I dont think av have experienced itching i the way you describe. I eat a lot of low fat diet and this has also good effects. In the last weeks I have consumed a lot of carrots. My skin, but not my sclera went slightly yellow. You can guess what I belived had happend - My hope is for the carrots. By the way has your apetit been reduced ?

Go for the ultrasound. It may just indicate  a fatty liver.
This could be a explanation of your symptoms. After searching the Web it seems to me that the way alcoholic
liver disease develop is : Fatty liver - alcoholic hepatit - chirrosis. And normally will bloodsamples be highly significant in case of hepatit. This is my hope !

Good luck to You and please let me now when you have something to share.

[Suziepie]

Since you've had so many tests done already I am wondering if they checked if you have a gliadin antibody and also you're PH balance.  I'm thinking because of the weight gain "possible" celiac sprue disease or parasites.  It's worth finding out.  Even though a typical celiac sprue gives weight loss, I know of people that are asymptomatic and are gluten intolerant.  You could also see a "good" naturopathich and have kinesiology sp? done.  You know you have a good one once you check out their record with the on-line medical board web-site and contact the Great Smokies lab for a referral for a reputable Naturopathic.  Here's the number 800-522-4762.

[davr]

arne,

To answer your questions,

No loss of apetite, except when I'm feeling extra stress over my possible health problems.  In fact, had to go on a diet and have recently lost 40 lbs, hoping that might help any fatty infiltration in the liver.  AFter the doc put me on Paxil, my weight shot up like crazy.  It did the trick, but I was left 60 lbs overweight in less than a years time.

the weakness I feel is two types, a generalized feeling of uneasiness, weakness in the legs, and loss of energy or "pep" I guess.  Hard to get up in the morning, and feel weak when standing in the shower.

I do a lot of electrical work, and it has become very noticeable to me that anytime I do repetative work, even easy work, with my hands at or above shoulder level (like turning screws, etc), my arms become very weak.  I have to take breaks every 10 seconds or so of this, and that's pushing it.  I have a hard time finishing blow drying my hair in the morning without resting my arms for a few seconds.  VERY frustrating.  This feeling of weakness intensified on a low carb diet, but is there regardless of diet.

I haven't been drinking in a while, but last year, one of the things that scared me away from it, is when I did drink, the next few days after that, if I exerted myself at all, like climbing up and down ladders, my entire lower body, legs, etc, became very weak to the point of barely being able to stand.

As far as the progression of liver disease, that is what scares me the most.  The ache in the side I can handle, many people with fatty liver, or less than very serious problems experience that.  The itching so dreadfully after even 3 or 4 beers for a week or so afterwards is what really scares me.  I've not heard of anyone with fatty liver having the itch.  Usually, from what I've read, it's more indicitive of a more serious liver problem, or is common in Hep C as well.

Put the itch, side ache, weakness, etc together, and the increased symptoms with intake of alcohol, and it's not looking too good as of now.

I made an appointment with the doc for next week, and I intend to start working towards an answer for this.  Not knowing is slowly killing me from the stress.

Good luck to you too.

[georgie439]

You do know that if your problem is from drinking, and from what you post it does sound that way. But if you stay sober, your liver and other organs will start to heal! The liver is an amazing organ!!  Have you spoken to others that had liver problems due to drinking?? It may shed some light on your situation and may relieve your mind in the sense that many have had very proggressed liver disease that turned around when they gave up the drinking and began taking care of themselves!! Also have you had blood test for hepc?? Keep us posted...georgie

[Saundra]

Do some checking on Milk Thistle for cleansing the liver.  There's lots of information about it.  I have cirrhosis of the liver and take it three times a day - it was suggested by a local homeopathic pharmacist who also suggested grapeseed extract.  I also did have elevated liver enzymes, which have been normal for several years since starting on these things.

Saundra

[Arne]

I am pleased to hear that you doing well. I have just
started taking milkthistle three times a day. In a famous book about the liver by A. Vogel, he mention Milkthistle and Cynara
as the two most important medicin droges used to handle liverproblems. Thank You for your advice and good luck for the future.

Arne