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bile duck clogged liver loks funny
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bile duck clogged liver loks funny

i was in the hospital due to constant upchuck for 2 days and continued pain in stomach all over but mostly on the right and upper right also back pain--dx as pancreatitis. now gi doc says he sees that my bile duct is clogged and my liver doesn't look right. all they keep asking is am i a drinker, i don't drink at all except an occational (one) on a holiday. just had a ton of blood work done and am going on mon. for an mri of the pancreas etc. by the way in was in the hospital for a week and only went home because i was afraid my ins. wouldn't pay for that long , as it turns out they were willing to pay for 5 weeks which gets me to thinking that there is more going on. I have no appatite at all, tired all the time and a fwew other things. does anyone know what is going on or have you had these symptoms


This discussion is related to Gallbladder out...but symptoms not relieved.
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82861_tn?1333457511
You may have pancreatitis, and probably should have stayed in hospital.  Insurance fears are understandable, but please don't check yourself out AMA (Against Medical Advice) if you need to be admitted again.  You can always ask your doctor to have a staff member check your coverage.  

Back to pancreatitis.  If your bile duct is clogged (the same stuff that causes gallstones) it slows or entirely stops the flow of bile from the liver and digestive enzymes from the pancreas.  The pancreas is a very sensitive organ, and if those enzymes can't get out, it begins to essentially digest itself.  

The reason the docs asked about your alcohol intake is because the majority of the time it is heavy drinkers who present with pancreatitis.  Cirrhosis of the liver due to drinking is common knowledge for most people.  Pancreatitis from alcohol consumption is about as common and not as well known by the general public.  Had you been a heavy drinker, the pancreatitis diagnosis would be a no-brainer.  However, since you have a clogged duct, that should also be a no-brainer.  You need an ERCP to clean that sludge out.  Get back to your gastro doc and get that taken care of.  I'm curious as to why that wasn't already done while your were in hospital.  Maybe you just jumped the gun too soon when you left the hospital?
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Avatar_m_tn
thanks for writing back. the doctors at the hospital told me it was fine that i go home as they don't do the test i need their, which i found out to be a lie as the gi is sending me there on monday to do i believe it is called a mrcp, which admitting said was just a fancy word for mri, at first i thought i just couldn't read the docs hand writing and it was an ercp but it's not at least not yet.    i did go back to the hosital in alot of pain by ambulance but they wouldn't admit me they said the pancreatitis was under control even though i was dyhydrated and my potasium was low which i forgot to write the first time, they did say they didn't see any stones but they beliee they turned to sludge and thats how all this happened what concerns me the most is that the doc didn't like the looks of my liver even though he said the count wasn't very high (just a little more then should be)and i am wondering if the clogged ducts are they reason i am never hungry and always tired any more answers would be of great help as i keep thinking tghat i have cancer, i just watch for 3months my brother die, he had prostate cancer and was only 48 ,please all men get tested i have not stopped crrying in so  long and i don't ever cry, sometimes i hope it is cancer so i can be with him again as he wasn't just my brother but my best friend. anyone know what to do and thanks again deb
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82861_tn?1333457511
I really don't think you need to be concerned with cancer.  With all the tests they've done, a mass would have been detected by now.  The liver and pancreas each have their own ducts for dispensing their various products.  Those 2 ducts merge into the common bile duct.  When the common bile duct gets sludge or stones, it impacts both the liver and the pancreas.  The pancreas is actually the organ to be more concerned about.  It's just a real "touchy" organ, and sometimes people who have had pancreatitis once have a higher probability of future attacks.  There is just no way of telling.

An MRCP is like a mini-MRI.  It's done with the flexible tube similar to the one used for endoscopy or ERCP.  That equipment is not available yet at all hospitals.  If the MRCP confirms the presence of sludge or stones, the doctor can immediately perform the ERCP and clean it all out.  Once you have the ERCP you may not experience immediate relief from the pain.  It can take some time for things to calm back down again.  Make sure to talk with your gastro doc about your concerns beforehand.

With your pancreas being so annoyed right now, it's no wonder you aren't hungry.  I'm surprised you can even eat all to tell the truth.  Eat low-fat foods and keep water or Gatorade handy throughout the day so you stay hydrated.  I sure hope they get you in soon.
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449201_tn?1205798831
Hi there

I too was rushed into hospital 8 yrs ago....they diagnosed pancreatitis.
This wasnt due to drink this was because I had Gall Stones and my gall bladder had become so broken down with stones they removed it.
I too had to go through what you are going through, they tend to think we are all drinkers! But in many cases its because of the Gall Bladder.
Have u been checked for Gall stones?? Just to let you know that sometimes the stones arent seen on a scan and they can hide...thats what happened to me. When they finally opened me up they found around 50 stones.!!!

Good Luck with everything.
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Avatar_m_tn
but couldn't do the mri as it was totally closed and i have never had one like it and found out i must be claustrophobic.  someone told me it (pain attacts anxiety, claustrophobia) could all be related to my just starting menopause, anyone know if this is true, as i have never ever been afrais of anything and i mean anything, i thought all this was brought on by my dear brothers death, and felt like i was in a coffin.
so not to sure of what to do next my doc put me on zoloft and xanax which really seems to help after 3 straight days of a pain accat i haven't had one sincce i have been on the meds. i know zoloft takes awhile so i  am guessing the help is coming from the xanax, which is fine with me if it helps. buy the way he put me on 100 zoloft which at present i am only taken 1/2 and 2 mg xanax, he also said that he hates to say this but i should have someone drive me and to take 4 mg xanax then have someone dump me in the tube and and someone to plull me out due to the serisness of my problems.  any one outthere with the same ar close to the same problems as i do.thank you deb
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Avatar_m_tn
Buy this book.  thank me later:  "the amazing liver and gallbladder flush" by andreas moritz. fid it on amazon.  keep your organs your going to need them..
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Avatar_f_tn
I can absolutely understand where your coming from.  I have had family members die young, and not only do you mourn them but, some, like us, will always have a "lil voice,will I make it to 50," Hey I had this feeling most of my adult life, its an imbedded fear, and I guess it took me a while to get out of denial and believe psych, who dx'd me w/ bi-polar.
I believe, all that depression and stress, has w/o a doubt added to my physical problems that I have.
Deb, did you ever have your GB out?? And also some meds can mess with panc, so I have read.  I have been on pain killers for a very long long  time. And these could have contributed to something called SOD along w/ my GB out can effect pancreas. Although I have had Drs in major hosp say that SOD can effect panc others say not enough study. In my mind it makes sense if something is restricted it has to go somewhere?? I have been thru many many test, to the point that I was told to give my insides a rest.
I know that Jaybay and Cal Gal have alot of knowledge, in this area.

I have had problems, start abt a yr after GB out and they come and go
for abt 3 yrs now.  I have to get my diet together.  And (this is only another high anxiety persons opinion) if you need to take xanax or such to take the test, have someone drive you and do it!!!  I would have someone drive me anyway, as I have truely become a mental case w/ this..  
I know this is long, but one more thing, with me, if I can listen to my psych, and take the meds, until they work, ( I know side effects are terrible) then maybe I can work on physical self help. Like a good lowfat diet.
Deb, try to get an advocate, cause w/ one you will get furhter w/ the Drs. when you are " in your zone" please dont take this as anything but meant to be helpful.                               georgie

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Avatar_m_tn
thank you all for writing back and giving suchgood advice!  i am getting an open mri on monday still going to take the xanx but probably just one.  my pcp saw my blood work (new ones) and said my liver emzines were very high so he believe what the gi doc thinks that i have stones in my liver , acully bloking all my bile ducts. I am so very hungry, it's been something like 2 weeks since i had any solid food, lots of water though as i do tend to dehydrate very easily.  will let you all know what happens you are all so kind to take the time to put in your input, and it sure helps thanks again deb
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Avatar_m_tn
    the more i get concerned that it may be pancreatitis cancer as i have every single sympton except jaungdis,  and the gi doc has always rushd me and has always been kind of nasty but this time he took his time and was nice to me-that got me very worried as he is not the bedside type at all unless something is serious. even my pcp whom i love to death was more worried than usual. has anyone come across this with there doctors. and thanks to all of you for your care and concern  deb
  ps my liver emzines were very very high what does that mean?
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Avatar_m_tn
  forgot to tell you all no i have not had my gallbladder out,
        d
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Avatar_m_tn
          


[my doc wasn't in so another doc just gave me a little info which i don't unsderstand, he said that my liver emzines were still high, but the special mri said that my bile ducts are dialated. does anyone know what this means?
           thank you deb
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193621_tn?1211245115
i have had my mother in hospital about 12 times since feb. in and . one thing after another. she had no pain but hurting in left side off her back. we thought we had lost her several times. i have near bout drove myself crazy taking care off her. her liver enzymes where up. her billrumben was 5.5, her ammonia was 67, she started having siezers. all test came back negative. no cancer, she turned jaundice , she was`nt herself. she dehyrated 3 times.Our hometown dr. sent us to a liver dr. he scheduled her for a mrcp today. 4/14/08. it took about 45 min. he came out and told me that she had a stone and it block the duc. he also gave me the pictures. he took it out and cleaned. mom is a little weak. cant have nothing but liqiuds for 2 days, but thank god it`s over. MRI AND CATSCANS did not show that.
anyone who wants to see what it looks like can email me. i have had mom on pedilite for children to keep her from dehyrating.it workes.
my email is karen_mcc***@****
have a full blood work done.
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193621_tn?1211245115
bellsouth net
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479957_tn?1270414705
I don't know why the doctors put us through all those tests, unless it is to save them from the chance of a law suit.  I've had every test you have spoken about and more and all of them came back normal or "slightly raised but not enough to be worried about".  Months of pain and money went by only to find out I needed the gallbalder removed because I had ten stones!  The test said I had nothing wrong!  Still neausous and suffering debilating reflux but the test for a blocked bile duct came back 'normal'.  The doctors have no explaination for my misery and won't do an ERCP in fear of setting the pancreas 'off', also claiming the MRCP says, "it isn't warrented".  In the meantime, I'm living in ---- and get refered from one specialist to another.  All they do is put me through more tests and say everything looks "normal".  I am sick of tests that reveal nothing and take my limited strength away.  I am sick of being refered - away.  And I am sick of waiting weeks and weeks between appointments only to have the doctor not know why I came back, or who I am, or what the problem is, or what I think he can do about it!  What do I have to do to get HELP!
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Avatar_m_tn
i'm  sorry about all your problems i know how it is to keep being refered to yet another doc. i believe they are just covering you know what. in my case everything came back just fine emzines are going down mrcp found nothing and i have no more pain doc cann't understand it, but thats just me i have  been told at 3 different times that i have cancer and each time they were wrong. so just cross your fingers try to stop stressing that makes it worse    i know    and good luck to you please write back and let us know how you are doing we all care,            debbi
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Avatar_n_tn
Hi,

just home from the hospital myself for my 3rd round of biliary duct dilation.  No stones per the ultrasounds, CT scans, and this time an MRCP.  Yes, it was immediately presumed I was an alcohol abuser; however, when my triglyceride levels came back extremely elevated--710 the 1st time; 888 the 2nd time, and 1,152 this time, I was diagnosed with hypertriglyceride-induced pancreatitis.  The normal range for triglycerides should be no higher than 150!  My cholesterol total is currently 444 so am beginning Lopid to try to bring it down.   Has your lab work included a look at your HDL, LDL, triglycerides, etc?  Might be worth a shot...good luck.

DaGord
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Avatar_f_tn
Maybe that is what is making me so nauseous.  I had my gallbladder out in November but still I am nauseous, only want certain types of food (carbohydrates) etc.  But my cholesterol has been out the roof as well as my triglycerides..  Couldn't take Zocor because it made my heart do crazy skipping and things.  Havent tried another statin since.  My blood pressure got up around 155/90 when my gallbladder was at its worst. It turned out to be full of gallstones.  I am wondering if I have a bile duct block  or some kind of pancreatic dysfunction.  this nausea is frightening me.  Do pancreatic problems every cause pain and soreness in the fingers and hands?  thanks,  horseylover
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Avatar_f_tn
My triglycerides are high (177) and I have high elevated liver enzymes. Makes me wonder if I've got that problem with the pancreas because I had all tests you mentioned - CT scan, ultrasound, etc. and the tests came back all normal.

What type of doctor took care of you for this?
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Avatar_n_tn
I was seen by the ER physicians first each time, and then after being admitted to the hospital and the lab work came back, I was seen by a gastroenterologist.  And yes, my liver enzymes are elevated also.  

In the sense that your tests came back normal, does that mean no gallstones?  That's what they told me about mine--dilated bile ducts are caused by obstructions but no stones or sludge was found so in a sense, my tests were normal also.  Only the blood work showed any abnormalities.  Oh, one other thing was that each time the ultrasound was done on my pancreas the results were that it was "echogenic."  I still haven't been able to figure out what that means and the docs aren't very good at explaining it either!

Horselylover, my blood pressure is high and in the hospital this time it got to 151 over 107, so they were freaking (as was I).  Seems my issues are genetic as I have always eaten a low fat diet, exercised, and basically try to do all the "right" things; however my family history betrays me...HBP in my father and sister,  etc.  My left hand was very swollen and I had pain in my left shoulder, but the dr. said gallstone and pancreatic issues usually radiate to the back.  My pain was right below my sternum and it was as if a hot poker was stuck through at that point and was coming out my upper left back area.  

I have a follow-up dr's appt. tomorrow, so will let you know what he says about my triglycerides being almost 10 times higher than they should be--TBH, I feel like a stroke waiting to happen--scares me a lot.

The pancreatitis pain I've experienced is almost a "10" on the pain-rating scale (with labor and childbirth being the only thing worse!).  It always comes on quickly, is preceded with nausea and vomiting, plus lack of appetite, yet no weight loss despite the little I do eat.  

I'm so sorry for anyone who has to deal with these types of health issues as they are the most painful types of disease I've ever experienced.  Apparently there is a nerve area called the celiac plexus (???) by the pancreas/gallbladder/bile ducts, etc. that makes the pain so hard to manage.

Good luck everyone, and thanks for sharing all of your info...I knew I wasn't an alcoholic, but try telling that to anyone who is bookwise but has no personal frame of reference.  Of course then they will say it's like the "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"   Same with the elevated triglycerides, did that cause the pancreatitis or did the pancreatitis cause the elevation?!  

Doesn't matter to me because I know my lifestyle, but it hurts like nothing I've ever experienced before.


Hope to hear more from you all...



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Avatar_f_tn
I had gallbladder attacks for years and they kept telling me that I did not have stones so it wasn't my gallbladder.  Until I saw a different doc who did a gallbladder funtion test (don't know the name) but they found out that my gallbladder was only functioning at 3% and that is why I was in so much pain, felt bloated and stuffed all the time.  It took them years to figure it out though.
good luck
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Avatar_f_tn
I can relate about the pain. It's something I've never felt before. Also, I hear you about trying to tell them I'm not an alcoholic and I'm not addicted to Tylenol! Each doctor that has looked at me and looked at my blood work has asked me about alcohol and Tylenol. I don't drink and I never take Tylenol - once in a blue moon I'll take a Motrin if I need to.

I don't have any gallstones because I don't have my gallbladder. They kept talking about sludge, but yet they weren't seeing any sludge. I just don't understand. I never experienced this before. It all started in March when I complained of "liver pain". First thing my doctor did when he got back my blood work was called me to have me admitted into the hospital that same day. Talk about being scared!!

Have you tried a google search on the word "echogenic"? I should have gotten a copy of my ultrasound results and seen what the heck it read.

Let us know how things turn out with your doctor.
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Avatar_f_tn
This is what I found out about "echogenic"

Example :

When the liver is echogenic, this refers to structures having strong reflectors of sound.  Gallstones and fat tend to have have strong echogenicity.
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Avatar_n_tn
I think pancreatitis is worse than childbirth. I've had pancreatitis 3 times and I have 3 children so I know what I am taking about.

I had the same symptoms as you my gb duct was clogged so they removed my gb. Then, about 5 months later, I returned to the hospital with lipase over 1,000. Over 800, you have pancreatitis. Anything 300 or under is normal. In between those is borderline.

The second time, they dx me with pancreas divisim. My pancreatic duct never fused properly and my duct was getting backed up so my pancreas could get anything out. Apparently that is painful. I had an ERCP to open up the duct and place a stent in to widen things. Not all gi docs do ercp procedures. You don't want a doc who does only a few each year. You want a doc who specialises in this because it is an extremely complex procedure.

The third time, they dx me with a clogged common and liver duct. The treatment for this is to enlarge these duct openings as well. This also needed to be done via ercp.

A hospital needs to admit you if your lipase is over 800. Even if your lipase is borderline, if you liver functions aren't right, you should be admitted for treatment. Pancreatitis is very serious. If you let it go, you can lose your pancreas and die. Your insurance has to cover this. It can be a life-threating issue if not treated. It is medically necessary to get treatment for this. If you are nervous about the mri, your doc can give you a xanax to relax you. I personally find it helppful to just close my eyes during the test. It only takes about 15-20 minutes for the MRI. There is also a machine that does an open mri.

You need to be treated for this. Don't go out AMA.



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