laprascopic surgery??

[georgie439]

First I want to say I'm thankful this sight is here, I dont feel so alone.  I have been having pain under right ribs for past 3-4 years, had liver profile done and ultrasound about 3 years ago, blood was ok but ultrasound found some stones. Dr. said I really didn't have to take out at that time.
About 2 months ago started having that funny feeling under left side, kinda like something was there and it hits my ribs if I move a certain way.  Pain still on right side but was also right in the middle right on the bra line actually hurt to wear a bra.
OK 2 weeks ago went for another ultrasound, when she pressed done in the middle under ribcage, it really really hurt, also hurt under right but not as bad as the middle.  
Next day dr's office calls, you have to go for surgery NOW to get gallbladder out. So I go see the surgeon he pokes me more looks at my slides, and tells me a little about the surgery.
He did say if there was alot of inflamation (inflammation) I might have to go for open. OK they were able to take it out with the laprascopic,
For the next two days I was having a really hard time breathing
and pain on top of both shoulder blades, find out they pump you up with gas, so they can see.  What organs can they see?  Can they see if there are stones in the ducts at that time??  I also read somewhere that they also do laproscopic surgery to just look at the internal organs, Is that true??
I do still have that feeling on left side, how can they check pancreas, what about MRI?? Sorry so long, any other message boards like this out there about gallbladder,liver,pancreas??

[JackieG]

Hi Georgie:

I believe they pump you full of gas so they can see to perform the surgery correctly and so they have some room to manuever with the surgical instruments. I am having a laparoscopic incisional repair soon, and the surgeon described how he would pump gas in to get working room and a better view.

I'm not aware of laparoscopic surgery as a diagnostic tool to view internal organs, but since I'm not a doctor, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I hope you start feeling better each day. Your post will give me another question to ask my surgeon - how do they get the gas back out, and how completely do they get it out. I can only imagine how painful it must be to have it trapped inside, and rely on your body working it out gradually.

Best wishes,
Chicken Soup

[sunnyc]

I'm happy that they found the cause of your pain on your right side.  I have pain on my right side also and in the middle.  I've had so many tests done but no surgery yet because all my results come back normal.  They diagnosed my pain in between my ribs as pancreatitis.  If you do have gallstones, they can cause things to back up in the ducts and cause your pancreas to become inflamed.  They can check your pancreas by doing a test called an ERCP(Endoscopic Retrograde Cholangio Pancreatography).  They just check the ducts during this test for gallstones and any abnormalities.  I had it done and was in a lot of pain after but it went away quickly.  If your pancreas is inflamed they can also check for high Amylase and Lipase levels with a blood test.  
I hope you've found some relief by having your gallbladder out and I'm sorry that it didn't solve the whole problem.  What I've learned is that you have to keep pressing your doctor for more tests and don't let them tell you that " it will eventually just go away".  I've been dealing with my pain for five years now and the doctors I've seen are telling me it's all in my head.  As I'm sure you know, it is very frustrating.  I just found this website a week ago and it has helped me so much.  Keep posting and hopefully someone's comments will go a long way to help you.  Good Luck

[kimbacat]

Georgie,

whether it is an open incision or laparascopically, the surgeon is able to see your abdominal cavity.  he can't see INTO an organ unless he cuts into it.  so he can't see into your gallbladder or into your bowel unless he cuts into it.  where the instruments are placed will determine how much of your abdomen the surgeon can see during a laparascopic procedure.  for instance, if they go in your upper abdomen, it'll be hard to see things in your lower abdomen because the intruments aren't long enough to move things (like your bowel) out of the way to get a clear view.  somethings can be felt thru the wall of your organ and other things can cause changes that are recognizable when looking at an organ.  they do pump gas into your abdomen into your abdomen to inflate it and make it easier to view and move things around.  they can never get 100% of the gas out again (think of a plastic ziptop bag where you can squeeze away, but never get ALL the air out before closing it).  the gas will rise to the highest point (think how helium ballons rise to the ceiling and hang out there).  the gas they put in rises up to your diaphram (separates chest from abdomen) and can sometimes cause pressure and irritation.  the irritation causes referred pain in your shoulder blades and back.  the same way gallbladder pain can cause pain in your shoulder and back.  your body will reabsorb the gas and the irritation will go away.  

laparascopic abdominal surgery is done sometimes to help diagnose gynecological problems.  

you're still pretty fresh from the surgery.  so, first, I would give it a bit more time and let your body heal and recover.  but if you are still having pain in a couple of weeks, press your doc for more answers.

take care

[JackieG]

Great response to Georgie!! Do you have a sense of how long it takes for the body to reabsorb the gas that they can't get out? I realize that my question is way too general in nature and that everyone reacts differently. I am just trying to get a sense of the range of time that I might experience the pain associated with the trapped gas when I have my abdominal incisional hernia repair. The longer that period is, the more work I will have to miss, and I am hoping that the laparoscopic surgery (versus open) will dramatically limit the time I have to take off from work.

Thank you in advance for any insight you are able to provide.

[georgie439]

Thank-you guys, I'm concerned about stones being stuck elsewhere,
someone posted on here that they saw stones trapped in the liver,
I guess I was wondering if they see the pancreas at all in the middle of the gallbladder removal, does anybody know if they check the ducts?  I will take your advice and give it some time. I'm wondering however if when they did the bloodwork on my liver if they did it on my pancreas?? They only mentioned checking my liver enzymes, I wish I would have met you guys years ago cause I didn't know that the pancreas could cause pain on right side or pain in the middle.

[5fan]

From my recent experience with pancreatitis and having my gallbladder removed I have found that when my doctors ran my initial bloodwork in the ER they ran hepatic (liver) and pancreatic levels along with the other battery of tests.  I'm not quite sure if they do this as a standard or not, but it sounded like they possibly do.

I knew when I went to the ER that I had had elevated liver enzymes for three months prior.  Very slightly elevated, but still elevated.  My doctor had actually told me that it may have been due to a fatty meal or to taking Tylenol fairly close to the blood work.  

Anyway when I presented at the ER the physician assistant told me that I most likely was feeling pancreatic pain (this was before blood or urine tests, or before the x-rays or sonogram).  I told him my mom had suggested it might be my gallbladder from the symptoms she had had with hers.

I really wasn't all that upset, other than the pain, until I took the urine test and it came back the color of diluted coffee.  Even in as much pain as I was feeling, I knew something was wrong.

Come to find out I was diagnosed with pancreatitis and an "enlarged gallbladder" with a "thickened wall".  My Amylase level was like 678 and my Lipase level was 1098.  My understanding is that both are supposed to be under 100.  I was also told that my hepatic function was high (liver).  I never was given a number on that.

Ever since my surgery in July I have been having pain and attacks.  I actually asked my surgeon if he was sure he took my gallbladder out.  He assures me they did.  Poor guy - he seems to remember my surgery like the movie Groundhog Day.  Remembers it like he lives it over and over and over.  It took them four days to get my pancreatitis under control so they could operate and then the last canula they removed nicked an artery so they had to go back in.  NO STONES FOUND ANYWHERE.  Instead of being 1 and 1/2 hours my surgery was closers to 3 hours.  My poor friend almost had a nervous breakdown waiting!

Back to the main point, now every time I have bloodwork done the doctors order heptatic function and Amylase and Lipase levels.  I assumed this was pretty much the standard, but you may want to ask just to be sure.

BEST OF LUCK

[kimbacat]

chickensoup-  you're right, it does vary.  for me, worst of the shoulder pain only lasted a couple of days.  after that, it was only when I would yawn or take a really deep breath that it would hurt.  I have a lot of adhesions and could only find one surgeon even willing to attempt laparascopic removal of my gallbladder.  she was able to inflate the area with only a minimal amount of gas and the surgery took about 4 hours.  even so, the recovery was a lot easier than open abdominal surgery for me.  I was back to work 2 weeks after surgery (sedentary job).  I had to stay longer, cause I had an ileus and kept throwing up.  I think anywhere from 1-4 weeks is the expected recovery time.  something that sometimes helps with the gas pains is to use gravity to your advantage.  if you go down on all fours and lower your head to the floor, but keep your butt in the air, after things shift, the gas will work it's way towards your bottom and away from your diaphram.  sometimes it takes bowing a few times to work.  you'll look like an idiot doing it, but it does help.  :)  good luck with the hernia repair.  

Georgie -  ditto what fan said about the blood tests, just ask for copies of your test results.  you can also ask the hospital for copies of your surgical reports and discharge summaries along with all pre-op testing results.  the hospital might charge to make copies, but you just need to sign for them and they're yours.  my surgeon explained that they would be flushing my ducts to remove any stones that might be in there that didn't already show up on previous testing.  as it turned out, there were more stones in my ducts than what she had expected and said they were most likely the source of my pain.  if you have something out of whack that was causing your body to produce stones, then, removing your gallbladder might not resolve the issue.  sometimes stones can form in any remaining ducts or in any 'walled' off ducts.  when I had pancreatitis, I had what the docs said where 'classic' pains.  the pain was in the upper center of my abdomen and went straight to my back.  I couldn't lie down.  sitting up and leaning forward helped a little bit.  eating anything made it much worse.

[georgie439]

Thank you for the posts, kimbacat what is a surgical report?
Probably dumb question, it is what it says it is, but what does that entail, do they check the stones they took out? or the gallbladder? You said you had stones in your ducts, is that part of the surgery to check ducts??  Also was your abdomen swollen??
In the area where the gallbladder was??  I do feel better with the gas then I did 2 days ago, can breath alot better. And I do think that nagging pain that was in the middle is gone.  I know they dont cut into the organs when they perform the surgery, but if my liver or ducts were really inflamed would they see that on there video screen??  The surgeon did go out and speak with my boyfriend, and my boyfriend asked him how my liver was(cause pain was on the right side also) and surgeon said everthing looked fine!  One more question does anybody know if the pancreas is in their view when they do this surgery??

[kimbacat]

no, not a dumb question at all!  the surgical report describes how the surgery was done, what position you were placed, where the trocars where placed, how much gas they used, what they saw, how they removed your gallbladder, etc.  a pathology report would be where you would find out about your stones and gallbladder itself.  it would tell you what your stones where comprised of and what condition your gallbladder was in.  the discharge summary lists your medical history (in brief), what you were in the hospital for, what happened while you were there, any complications and what instructions/meds you were discharged with.  the docs check out the general area of your gallbladder and make sure everything looks ok.  they would have looked at your pancreas.  your gallbladder is on your right side, tucked behind part of your liver.  your pancreas is kind of just left of center, below your stomach.  sometimes inflammation can be seen (or the effects of it) from just looking at an organ.  it depends.  but if they saw something unusual, they probably would have biopsied it.  the pathology report and surgical report would include what they biopsied and what (if anything) was wrong with the tissue.  when you go back for your next followup appt w/ the doc, ask him/her all of your questions, that way, you'll know what went on.  take a list of questions with you and keeping asking until you understand everything and feel comfortable with what s/he said.  

take care

[georgie439]

Hi: You really seem to know your stuff.  How long ago did you have your gallbladder removed?? Also is it possible, to have some kind of problem w/ your pancreas w/o having excruciating pain??
I had some correspondence w/ Nanny on this board, but I have to admitt, you and her are just a "tad" bit more intelligent when it comes to this topic.
Are you a nurse or in the medical field??
Anyway I'm glad you guys are out there!!!.....georgie

[sives]

I had my gall bladder removed December 3, 2001.
I went in the doctor's office with some symtoms, they did blood work, said my liver enzymes were elevated, and sent me for an ultra-sound. That is when they found the stones. The symtoms that I was having was for something different, so they found the gall bladder problem by accident.
That was in October.
I had the laprascopic surgery, and everything went well.
Came home the next day. The pain from the gas, was not too bad, and I was back to work in 2 weeks.
Since my surgery, I have felt pretty good. I have only one problem, that is really driving me crazy.
It is sudden and frequent diareah. Do have that problem too.
It is getting better though. It has been almost a year. So maybe there is hope after all. I have heard that there is a slight possibitliy that stone can still form in the duct leading to the liver. Have you heard anything about that?
Hope your situation is getting better.

Sivey

[kimbacat]

nope, not in the medical field.... well, I work for a pharmaceutical company if that counts  :)

thru my experiences is how I've learned what I know.  I've been pretty sick for a few years now and have had lots of surgery, procedures, medications, etc.  understanding things eases my mind and then I don't worry (as much).  I had my gallbladder removed in feb1999.  

take care

[MAVA]

so can you help me........
I had my gall bladder remove last 4th of  July. I had a lamparoscopic and everything went really good, I had a fast recovery and I was back to work after 1 weak. I always have an excellent health until this last year. After the surgery I was feeling nauseous and not to perfect but I was thinking it was normal. but I still feeling nauseous and having a pain in my right side under my ribs and in my back, I visit my doctor and she send me to a Gastrenterologist   thinking I had stones in the common bile duct, the Gastrenterologist did an endoscopy thinking that I had an ulcer.  everything was ok... and she said that can not be stons..can she know that with just an endoscopy???.....for few weeks I thought I was getting crazy how can I imagine this pain, so I decide to go to other doctor . He make me an ultrasound. the day before the Ultrasound I talk with a friend and she said that not always a stone in the common bile duct will show in an ultrasound or endoscopy that I have to get an ERCP .....is that true??? ... the ultrasound doesn't show stones and all my blood tests are perfect the doctor said that is gastritys (but I just have a endoscopy and everything was normal)..... I am lost I need help and I don't know were to turn ..... I still having pain in my right side and in my back, feeling nauseous and vomiting few times.... some days I fell beter and with a dull pain...it can be a stone???

[Marlasinger3]

I had emergency surgery yesterday because i was so nauseated that I couldn't even hold down fluids.  The surgery was routine and they found that my bile duct was sealed shut and removed it as well as my gallbladder.  I was fine the next morning and munched on some cheerios and rice throughout the day.  In the evening I started havign violent vomiting, I couldn't even keep the finnegan down.(anti-naseutious med) {sorry drugged up and cant spell right}
Is this a normal thing?  I was so bad I hadn't eaten for about three days, and I dont want to make it go any more than that.  Thanks for you help.

[grannyN]

I had my laprascopic gallbladder surgery on November 20, 2002.  I even have my picture taken to prove it.  It was full to the brim with stones..I have had many abdominal surgeries previously and it was a miracle that the surgeon was able to do this procedure...I did real well and a week later was able to resume limited activities.  I am retired, so this was not hard for me to do....However, on Tuesday afternoon December 3rd, I started to have severe pain in the same area I always did when having a gallbladder attack.  As a matter of fact, it seemed worse and I couldn't believe it, because I thought I was all finished with this pain...I had just had my post-op check up the day before and the surgeon said I was doing very well and healing nicely, so this was a real surprise for me and definitely not a good one...I called his office and the girl told me to come over right away...I did take a 1 ml. of Lorazepam to calm me when the pain started.  A good friend took me to see my Doctor...he had patients waiting for him and I thought I would get to see him as soon as I came in, but not so...in the meantime, the pain had subsided...I saw the surgeon and he couldn't figure out why it happened and told me "if I knew you were having the pain, I would have wanted you to go to the ER"..it was obvious the girl did not even tell him about my problem....he wanted me to go to the ER anyway and that was 3 l/2 hrs. of waiting until the ER Doctor saw me....kept me overnight for observation and in the morning a cardiologist saw me and had me do an echocardiagram with the dye...my last one was a year ago and it was fine.  Just to make sure this episode had nothing to do with my heart they did it again...a most unpleasant experience.  But, the findings were okay and nothing was wrong with my heart.  All I remember was I drank some Orange Juice prior to the pain (usually didn't drink OJ because of the acidity), but since my gallbladder was out, I wasn't thinking anything could happen....The Doctors couldn't give me a reason either....All I hope and pray is that it doesn't happen anymore.  Just wondering if this happened to anyone else out there who had had this procedure...I am glad I found this site....Thank you for reading this....

[grannyN]

I had my laprascopic gallbladder surgery on November 20, 2002.  I even have my picture taken to prove it.  It was full to the brim with stones..I have had many abdominal surgeries previously and it was a miracle that the surgeon was able to do this procedure...I did real well and a week later was able to resume limited activities.  I am retired, so this was not hard for me to do....However, on Tuesday afternoon December 3rd, I started to have severe pain in the same area I always did when having a gallbladder attack.  As a matter of fact, it seemed worse and I couldn't believe it, because I thought I was all finished with this pain...I had just had my post-op check up the day before and the surgeon said I was doing very well and healing nicely, so this was a real surprise for me and definitely not a good one...I called his office and the girl told me to come over right away...I did take a 1 ml. of Lorazepam to calm me when the pain started.  A good friend took me to see my Doctor...he had patients waiting for him and I thought I would get to see him as soon as I came in, but not so...in the meantime, the pain had subsided...I saw the surgeon and he couldn't figure out why it happened and told me "if I knew you were having the pain, I would have wanted you to go to the ER"..it was obvious the girl did not even tell him about my problem....he wanted me to go to the ER anyway and that was 3 l/2 hrs. of waiting until the ER Doctor saw me....kept me overnight for observation and in the morning a cardiologist saw me and had me do an echocardiagram with the dye...my last one was a year ago and it was fine.  Just to make sure this episode had nothing to do with my heart they did it again...a most unpleasant experience.  But, the findings were okay and nothing was wrong with my heart.  All I remember was I drank some Orange Juice prior to the pain (usually didn't drink OJ because of the acidity), but since my gallbladder was out, I wasn't thinking anything could happen....The Doctors couldn't give me a reason either....All I hope and pray is that it doesn't happen anymore.  Just wondering if this happened to anyone else out there who had had this procedure...I am glad I found this site....Thank you for reading this....