mystery ailment--ideas

[hounddog]

For the last 6 months, I have been plagued by overly-frequent bowel movements, anywhere from 5-15/day. After being treated three times with cipro for food poisoning (the condition set in the day after eating lobster), my general doctor referred me to a wonderful gastroenterologist. The condition responded to cipro, but less so with each round, and the problem would always come back a few days or weeks later. I also experience dizziness, fatigue, extreme acid reflux (I am now taking Nexium and Zantac for that) and hot sweats. I have now had a colonoscopy, endoscopy, and a variety of other tests, including those for carcinoid tumors and parasites, and as far as my doctor and I can tell, I am healthy as a lark except that I produce 3x more stool than I should. Because of the absence of cramping, my doc doesn't think I meet the diagnostic criteria for IBS. I have no reason to think this is psychologically based as I have not experienced any recent stressors, and am generally a happy person--except that I feel like **** (no pun intended!). If anyone has ideas about other things I should ask my doctor about, I would appreciate it. This situation is really getting to be a drag...Thanks!

[reb]

Hi, what struck me about your post is the use of antibiotics. Antibiotics can have an effect on your bowels (because they kill good bacteria as well as bad). I have had quite a quite odd experience with antibiotics recently, so maybe it would give you some ideas. I was put on 5 courses of antibiotics (including cipro) within a month period, 1 week after I stopped taking the last course I developed stomach problems (odd bowel habits, cramps, gas). I started taking probiotics to replace the good bacteria and that helped with the pain, but I developed dizziness and fatigue. This gradually got better and after 2 months I stopped the probiotics and my problems started again(stomach ache, fatigue). I was put on more antibiotics (for something else) despite my fear of it doing more damage to my stomach with the antibiotics... the antibiotics (not one of the original 5 I took) actually helped with my stomach pains this time- I assume because I had an overgrowth of bad bacteria caused by the lack of good bacteria in my stomach. This time I know to take probiotics with antibiotics so hopefully I won't be stuck in the same trap.
Anyway, perhaps the cipro has become less effective against your problem because the bacteria that is left in your stomach is the cipro- resistant bacteria growing. Normally the good bacteria keeps this bad bacteria in your gut in check, but perhaps the disruption of good bacteria in your gut from the antibiotics enabled this other bacteria to flourish.

I know this all sounds really odd, but I never would have thought of it if it hadn't happened to me- even the doctor was surrised.
But anyway, if you've tested negative for food poisoning organisms, perhaps the repeated use of antibiotics is causing your problems. You could bring this up to your doctor as a possibility. All the best.

p.s. Dizziness and fatigue can also be caused by dehydration if you are going to the toilet that much (although my dizziness and fatigue wasn't caused by dehydration... so it can be caused by other things too)

[gregd64]

I agree with Reb, I had the same thing happen to me and it took months for me to get back to normal. Eat yogurt with "live" bacteria in it, thats the good stuff your intestines need. Have you tried a fiber suppliment? I used metamucil and that helped me until the bacteria got back to normal.

[hounddog]

Thanks for the ideas. My only question is if this could be a chronic problem with long periods of being OK inbetween. After the first round of cipro, I was 100% healthy for at least a month, and then I was sick again for no apparent reason. Maybe something I ate set off the evil bacteria again?

Also, are there are other foods you would recommend for cultivating good bacteria? Yoghurt has become one of my "trouble" foods--or maybe this is because it is infusing good bacteria and I should keep eating it even if it is making me sick?

[reb]

Hi, about the being "100% healthy for at least a month, and then I was sick again for no apparent reason"..... as I said, I wasn't ill until I stopped takling the antibiotics- sometimes it takes a period of time to let the bad bacteria grow to a level that starts causing you problems. That is what happened to me when I stopped taking the probiotics after 2 months... my stomach started hurting again until I took more antibiotics..this time I am hoping to prevent bad bacteria from overgrowing by continuing to take the probiotics.
If you have trouble eating yoghurt then stop eating it. Lactose and dairy products can be hard to digest so the benefit of the good bacteria in that form is being negated by the trouble you are having digesting milk products. If this is the case try getting the good bacteria in capsule or powder form (ie probitics: acidophilus, etc) from the health food shop.

The thing is, once I stopped taking probiotics my stomach began to hurt again- and this time the probiotics didn't help me with the pain... it took another course of antibiotics and then starting on the probiotics again.
Ask your doctor about the possibilty of bad bacteria overgrowth in your gut from all the antibiotics and ask him about potentially putting you on a different antibiotic (to kill the bacteria) followed by probiotics (to prevent a bad bacteria ovwergrowth again).

I know yeast overgrowth is also a common side effect of cipro, so maybe ask your dactor about potential yeast imbalance and being treated with anti fungals....

[hounddog]

Thanks so much for your suggestions. One more question (sorry!)--you refer to bacterial overgrowth in your most recent post. Were you tested for this, and was the test positive? My doctor is testing me for bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine this coming week, but told me it was a reach as it would be highly unusual in a young woman (late 20s) who hasn't had major surgery or radiation. Should I ask him about your suggestions even if that test comes back negative?

[reb]

Hi, no, I was not tested for bacterial overgrowth (except c. difficile- which came back negative)- I do not think there is any reliable method to test for most bacteria because a lot of bacteria usually exsists in your system anyway without causing problems. Also, I think the bacteria overgrowth is actually in the large intestine, not the small, and there are soo many different types of bacteria in your large intestine it would probably be impossible to test the levels of all of it or even know what to test for.
Your doctor says it would be highly unusual "in a young woman (late 20s) who hasn't had major surgery or radiation". I am not sure if he is refering to bacteria overgrowth in the small intestine or large. Also, I am a woman in my late 20s who hasn't had major surgery or radiation... but I have had lots of antibiotics.. which killed a lot of bacteria in my large intestine! It makes sense, because antibiotics are not specific to particular bacteria- they kill both good and bad bacteria. The good bacteria usually keeps in check the levels of bad bacteria- however, if you have low levels of good bacteria, it may not be enough to keep in check the bad bacteria... hence problems can start even though they are hard to diagnose.
Also, cipro. is known to cause yeast infections for the same reason, so your doctor should be aware of the imbalances antibiotics can cause...
Antibiotics affect different people differently- some can take antibiotics for a long time without getting gastro. problems, others suffer from it.
I was tested for the classic type of bacteria which causes problems after antibiotic use (c. difficile), but it came back negative... but there was clearly something wrong with my digestion even though I tested negative for the most obvious bacteria.

Otherwise, even if your increased amount of stool ISN'T caused by an overgrowth of bad bacteeria, it may just be your body readjusting after bouts of antibiotics because the antibiotics affect the bacteria in your instines and hence the amount of stool you pass.
Even if you don't have a "diagnosed" bacteria overgrowth, I would start taking probiotics to replace the good bacteria.... I just mentioned about another bout of antibiotics because I left it so long after taking the antibiotics before starting to take the probiotics for a second time, the probiotics didn't help. I was only prescribed antibiotics for something else, which ended up, surprisingly,helping my stomach problems, so I learned all this by chance.
I would talk to your doctor about the use of antibiotics affecting the digestive tract. I would really suggest probiotics (available from health food shops) because even if this isn't your problem, they are known to help regualte bowel movements and won't cause you any harm. I would also ask about trying out another type of antibiotics for your problem (since cipro. helped you at first with your problem last time- it may indicate that another type of antibiotics will help you again this time) BUT I would start taking probiotics while on the antibiotics this time.

I just thought I would share my situation with you because my doctors also said my situation was highly unlikely, however, it occured and I learned how to fix it by chance...
All the best

[roxnsox]

Have you been screened for Hepatitis?  I haeard of someone getting Hep B from Shellfish.

[hounddog]

I know I have had a general liver function test, which was normal. I assume if I had hepatitis, that test would have been abnormal, right? I'll ask my doctor next time we talk.

[XEMT]

hi, sorry about your problem. you need to ask your dr to do a hepatitis test pronto. check for A,B and C. check for antigen and antibodies. you could have it and your liver funtions be normal.( if it is early in the dieases.) better to be safe than sorry.

[Concerned lady]

I agree with everybody!

Also, consider the possibility of lactose (milk sugar) intolerance--causes diarrhea, cramps, bloating. Try taking LACTASE ENZYME (like "Lactaid") with any milk products, OR, avoid milk products.

I totally agree with using PRO-BIOTICS (like Acidophilus &/or Bifidus). Try some from a health food store, with as few additives as possible. I found the FOS (Fructo-oligo-saccharides) irritating to my stomach. (Get probiotics without FOS's)

You might also consider a one day trial of edible ACTIVATED CHARCOAL tablets.

Also look up ADVERSE EFFECTS of Cipro.

I'll do a "cut & paste" of some GASTRIC REFLUX TIPS (without acid blockers--to avoid NERVE DAMAGE). See these below, and follow the good advice of all the others who answered you here!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Some GASTRIC REFLUX TIPS (without acid blockers):

GER=Gastro-Esophageal Reflux. (Gastro=stomach. Esophagus=food tube.)

LPR= Laryngeal-Pharyngeal Reflux. (Larynx=voice box, containing the 2 vocal cords. Pharynx=throat, above the larynx. The larynx is above the trachea/windpipe.)

Reflux=acidic or alkaline stomach material that backs up into the esophagus (food tube), causing any of these problems: VCD/Vocal Cord Dysfunction/Laryngospasm attacks, cough, voice problems, asthma, globus (feeling of lump in throat), constant need to clear throat, worsening of sinus condition, sore throat, pre-cancerous conditions of throat &/or esophagus, etc.

SOME GER/LPR CONTROL THINGS WE DO, that we learned from the excellent book: STOMACH AILMENTS AND DIGESTIVE DISTURBANCES, by Michael T. Murray, N.D. See page 9, References, in my website: http://cantbreathesuspectvcd.com   and, also see GER/LPR info on page 5, and on LINKS page.

PLEASE READ THIS GREAT BOOK. It may possibly be bought on-line, from Michael T. Murray’s website.

Some of the following we learned from people &/or other books, &/or other good websites about voice, GER, etc.

(1) DGL (De-Glycyrrhizinated Licorice) is one of our main methods of controlling the GER/LPR. We use Enzymatic Therapy brand, shortly before meals. The DGL does NOT cause high blood pressure, and does NOT cause fluid retention/edema, because the bad (steroidal) part of whole/crude licorice has been removed, leaving the DGL. DGL is available at most health food stores, and at good pharmacies.
  
The DGL tablet(s) must be chewed, to mix with saliva, to be effective. If it is too dry, one could mash/crush it and mix with a little water, and then chew it up. Chew tablet(s) for a minute or so, to thoroughly mix with saliva, shortly before EVERY meal, and if necessary, between meals (Read label directions).
  
The DGL seems to not only promote healing of throat, esophagus and stomach, but also seems to help prevent OUR reflux.(resulting in no more globus/lump in throat sensation, no more constant throat clearing, excess mucous, excess phlegm, no more NIGHT-TIME VCD/Vocal Cord Dysfunction/Laryngospams attacks, no more laryngitis, etc. for us)

We like the taste of the plain, fructose-free, DGL CHEWABLE tablets, but for those who hate the taste, try mixing the crushed tablet with a tiny bit of mashed organic banana, and then chew thoroughly, to mix with saliva. Avoid any DGL that contains mint. (Mint—in all forms, can cause gastric reflux episodes. AVOID MINT!!).

(2) We use Thayers brand of SLIPPERY ELM Throat Lozenges when we feel the need. (Soothing, coating, healing, nourishing). Slippery Elm (inner bark from a tree) also comes in teabag form, or in bulk, etc. as an herbal supplement.

(3) We drink the occasional small glass of CARROT JUICE (organic, fresh) which soothes, coats, heals the digestive tract, is nourishing, and stimulates the immune system, with beta-carotene, soothing and coating PECTIN (a type of fiber), and other good nutrients. (Carrot soup, cooked carrots are also good. Beta-carotene is heat resistant.) (Beta-carotene later is turned into Vitamin A inside us). Do not overdo. If your skin turns orange, cut back on the carrot juice. Avoid beta-carotene pills -- too potent.

(4) We tried elevating the head of the bed a few inches, by putting 6 inch to 8 inch BLOCKS, ON THE FLOOR, under the head end of the bed. This creates a slant (tilt), where the head is 6 to 8 inches higher than the feet. This helps some people, but not all people. (Check with a pediatric Gastro-enterologist, about raising the head end of a bed of a child, or a crib of an infant). Also, see (16) about a special GERD PILLOW, for adults.

(5) We try NOT TO BEND OVER too often, and we try to AVOID STRAINING (Valsalva maneuver). We AVOID LIFTING HEAVY objects. (No weight lifting!) (at least until after no more reflux symptoms for 3 months).

(a) If CONSTIPATION is causing any straining, see Ref.15,18,23,24,25 on page 9 for ideas about gently treating constipation, including eating whole grains, not white (de-natured ones), etc.  For us, exercise, increased water intake, acidophilus/bifidus, digestive enzymes, avoiding junk food, improved diet, chewing slowly (takes will power!), eating when not under stress or angry, etc., all are helpful.

(6) NO MORE TIGHT pants, belt, corset,--AVOID TIGHT CLOTHING etc.

(7) We try to not eat too much junk food. Some people avoid acidic  food, while others need to eat acidic food, if their stomach is not producing any (or enough) acid. (It is good to avoid acid, if one has an ulcer.) These gastric reflux tips methods often can help to heal ulcers. Some people need betaine hydrochloride supplements, which becomes HCl/hydrochloric acid, or, some use vinegar (acetic acid) in salads, or mixed with water, while others need to avoid eating excess acid. Each person is unique. We avoid all artificial sweeteners. Anyone with diabetes might want to look at the excellent book Reversing Diabetes, by Dr. Julian Whittaker, M.D..

Diet soda pop contains the harmful artificial sweetener Aspartame (Equal/Nutrasweet), which can cause WEIGHT GAIN, HEADACHES, UPSET STOMACH, BLURRED VISION, BLINDNESS, TWITCHING, SEIZURES, BRAIN TUMORS, HYPERACTIVITY, MOOD SWINGS, ETC., and soda pop often has strong acids, plus other harmful artificial ingredients. Plain water, gentle herb teas, certain fruit juices, brown rice-milk, etc. are healthier substitutes for soda pops.

We try to avoid all artificial ingredients, including fake fats (like Olean, Olestra, etc.), because these can destroy the digestive system, and prevent absorption of vital nutrients, such as fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K) from foods. These fake fats also prevent digestion and absorption of needed fats & oils, used to repair myelin nerve cell sheaths (made of fatty material, mostly cholesterol). Hormones are also made of mostly cholesterol.

(8)  We try to drink more water, to prevent chronic dehydration. We like hard (nicely mineralized) well or spring water.
We do not drink distilled water (soft water, no minerals), because it can leach minerals out of our bones, possibly contributing  to osteoporosis. (See Ref.18,23, on page 9.) We avoid water softeners (chemicals) because they can be toxic, and because good minerals help keep us healthy. People with KIDNEY PROBLEMS &/or GLAUCOMA, etc. should ask their docs how much water is safe to drink, since too much water can be dangerous for them! (But, dehydration can cause problems also.)

(9) We use ACIDOPHILUS/BIFIDUS ( edible beneficial bacteria which keep bad YEASTS away, such as Candida Albicans, formerly called Monilia). ACIDOPHILUS/BIFIDUS also can eat or control some bad bacteria, and some viruses. The acidophilus/bifidus are also called PRO-BIOTICS and are beneficial intestinal flora (mainly for the large intestine). We keep the jars refrigerated, but not too cold. These are available at health food stores & pharmacies. (See Ref.14,15,23,24,25, on page 9).

Acidophilus/bifidus can re-populate the large intestine, with good bacteria, after antibiotics &/or steroids, etc. have killed off these good bacteria! Some of us have to continue eating the acidophilus/bifidus (daily, or from time to time), but the results seem worth the effort to us.

Yogurt and buttermilk contain similar beneficial bacteria, but are milk products, so see (11) below about milk products.

(10) We use DIGESTIVE ENZYMES. My husband likes Acid-Ease by Prevail, which contains Slippery Elm (inner bark), Marshmallow Root, Gamma-Oryzanol (from Rice Bran Oil), and the plant enzymes Amylase (digests starch), Lipase II (digests fat), and Cellulase I (digests cellulose from plant cell walls). The Acid-Ease does not contain Protease, which can be very irritating to ulcer/GER folks.

The Acid-Ease is NOT an acid blocker. It is not an antacid. It soothes, coats, nourishes, and promotes healing. Its enzymes help with leaky gut syndrome.

   I use Total Enzymes (which does have Protease, a protein digesting enzyme) by Nutri-West, a company that sells only to health practitioners (Chiropracters, Physicians, and others). One could ask their physician to order, at cost, for them, by having physician call 1-307-358-5066.

   Digestive enzymes are NOT FOR EVERYBODY.

(11)  My husband has found that AVOIDING MILK PRODUCTS helps him feel less congested, with less mucous in throat. Milk and milk products can cause gastric reflux episodes. Brown-Rice Milk (look for gluten-free) can substitute for milk (but not for babies!).

Gluten is in wheat (includes spelt & kamut), rye, oats, barley, & buckwheat. Read labels to avoid hidden gluten, in some soy sauces, gravies, grain alcohols, beer (barley malt), etc. People with Celiac Disease need to avoid all foods containing gluten. BROWN RICE (organic) is gluten-free. Corn is gluten free, but is very allergenic (allergy causing), so avoid corn. Avoid millet, at first, because there is disagreement about whether millet is safe or not, for Celiac patients.

MILK MAY CAUSE MORE ACID to be produced, IN THE STOMACH.

I occasionally eat milk products, like yogurt, cheese, whipped cream, or my ACIDOPHILUS/BIFIDUS, which is mixed with goat milk powder. So, at these times, I take LACTASE ENZYMES, to digest (break down into easily absorbed small molecules) the milk-sugar called LACTOSE. Many people (due to heredity &/or disease) have Lactose intolerance, where the small intestine does not secrete the lactase enzyme. Result is that the milk-sugar (lactose) travels further down the small intestine than it should. Then, bad bacteria eat the lactose, giving off lots of gas (a by-product of the digestion of bad bacteria), and this causes folks to get bloated, gassy, have diarrhea, and cramping. I use Lactaid brand lactase enzymes, and it works for me. Ordering direct from them can save money.

(12) Using the above methods has almost completely freed my husband of needing to use Tums, and seems to be nicely controlling his and my GER/LPR. We have never used acid blockers.

ACID BLOCKERS CAN HAVE DANGEROUS SIDE EFFECTS: Some examples are:

Acid must be present in the stomach, in order for the stomach to make a substance called Intrinsic Factor. Intrinsic factor must be present with Vitamin B 12, in the stomach, for absorption of Vitamin B 12 to happen, I believe, in the ileum (last part of the small intestine).

Acid blockers therefore prevent absorption of Vitamin B 12. Malabsorption (lack of absorption) of Vitamin B 12, causes NERVE DAMAGE (pain, numbness, pins & needles sensation, etc.) in the peripheral nerves (outside the brain & spinal cord). This is called PERIPHERAL NEUROPATHY. For details about this problem, see the Peripheral Neuropathy forum at http://www.braintalk.org

If Vitamin B 12 continues to NOT be absorbed, eventually there can be NERVE DAMAGE to the Central nervous system (brain & spinal cord).

ALSO, the minerals calcium, iron, zinc, other minerals, and important trace minerals, etc. cannot be properly absorbed, when there is no acid in the stomach (due to acid blockers, etc.).

AND, protein does not get properly digested (broken down--eventually into amino acids), in the stomach, when there is no acid in the stomach.

Doctors and pharmacists can advise about gradual(slow) tapering down (weaning) schedules (when and if safe) for the acid blockers. Some acid blockers, when stopped too quickly, can cause rebound acid secretion in the stomach, resulting in excess hydrochloric acid secretion.

ALSO, SOME FORMS OF REFLUX ARE NOT ACID REFLUX, but are ALKALINE REFLUX, (bile is alkaline). Besides refluxed stomach acid (HCl/hydrochloric acid), Pepsin (an acidic proteolytic/protein digesting, enzyme) & bile (alkaline) can irritate & damage: the esophagus, throat, vocal cords, & lungs.

(13) Do not drink ICY COLD DRINKS, and AVOID VERY HOT DRINKS. Use room temperature drinks, or slightly cool, or warm, but not ultra-hot. Extremely cold or hot liquids can irritate the stomach, which is bad for ulcers &/or gastric reflux.

(14) Ask physical therapists, chiropractors, osteopaths, etc. if they know any safe adjustments that might lessen GER/LPR, if you wish.

(15) Read (by Dr. James A. Koufman) PATIENT INFORMATION SHEET ON REFLUX by Center for Voice Disorders of Wake Forest University. Here’s a link:  http://www.bgsm.edu/voice/pt_info.html  Dr. Koufman was a pioneer in showing the connection between stomach reflux (can be acid reflux OR alkaline reflux) and breathing problems!

(16) Some have found a special (large) GERD pillow helpful for preventing GERD episodes while sleeping and while lying down. Here is a link to the Prop up pillow website:  http://www.propuppillow.com

(17) Avoid harmful chemical air pollution, which can aggravate gastric reflux. See page 5 of VCD website for more about this.

(18) Using the above methods, in addition to the SINUS SURVIVAL tips, has helped us to prevent VCD attacks, in us.

(19) Please check with your doctor, in advance, to be sure that it is OK for you to try these tips, in your particular case. Also, please get monitored by your doctor, to be sure that no more damage to the throat, esophagus, stomach, vocal cords, lungs, etc. is happening, from possible SILENT gastric reflux.

Pregnant or nursing ladies should check with their doctors, before trying any of these tips.

Avoid any herbs, foods, etc. that you may be allergic to.

Check with your doctor and pharmacist, to be sure that there would be no harmful interactions between any of your medications, diet that you may be on, and any herbs, foods, etc. mentioned in these tips.

Check with your doctor, to be sure that these tips would not interact badly with any medical condition you may have.

These tips help my husband and me (adults). Some of these tips may be OK for children, and others may not be OK for children. Check with your doctor! Babies with gastric reflux need DIFFERENT treatments, not these tips (except for raising the head end of the crib, if your doctor says it is OK to do this, etc.). Check with your doctor!

I hope you get this figured out & feel better soon!

Sincerely, Concerned lady

[hounddog]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll be seeing my doctor tomorrow and will ask about the hep tests then. He's also starting me on yet another round of antibiotics in a few days (Augmentin?) and I will use probiotics, too. I'll keep you posted if we ever get to the bottom of this!

[XEMT]

ALSO HAVE YOUR GALLBLADDER RECHECKED. WHO KNOWS?

[hounddog]

I had a hep test done today while at the doc's, although I am pretty low risk for B or C. I am actually heading out of town, but will inquire about my gallbladder when I talk to him about my various test results next week.

Thanks again for the suggestions and ideas.