Aa
HIV Transmission And Unprotected Vaginal Sex.
Hello Doc, First of all I will like to commend you for the work you do on this website. I know you
Hey Doc,
I just wanted to point out that I am the originator of this post and at first the nickname came up as
I just wanted to point out that I am the originator of this post and at first the nickname came up as
What's CYA? You mean "Cover your ***"? LOL! Or is that another technical term? LOL!
Thanks! I'm glad you find my posts helpful :-) I don't have a medical background--economic botany is as close as I got. But my interests have shifted over the years, and if I had to do it over again... Anyway, I'm a sex educator, interested in all things relating to sex (plus I teach workshops on safer sex), and I'm extremely, annoyingly anal about research. I read, I go to conferences. I try to keep up.
And the window period continues to be a source of tremendous anxiety and confusion for lots of people here. Dr. Handsfield has explained the reason for the seeming discrepancies quite a few times in the past. You might want to do a search, but in a nutshell, it's a combination of risk assessment and CYA.
And the window period continues to be a source of tremendous anxiety and confusion for lots of people here. Dr. Handsfield has explained the reason for the seeming discrepancies quite a few times in the past. You might want to do a search, but in a nutshell, it's a combination of risk assessment and CYA.
first of all thank you for responding to my post. the reason i will test at 5 weeks, well actually its going to be 33 days from the day of the incident, is because im going into prison on that day and they do manditory HIV testing and i wanted to know how certain i can be that it is going to be correct. Once again thank you doc, i appreciate all the help you give on this site!
Thanks for the info. Assuming that is true, I wonder why all the hotlines and most medical sites either say 3 mths = 97% for sure or 6 mths= 100% sure. It seems like if most people testing neg at 6 weeks can bank on that, they should update these guidelines don't you think. Why don't they?
Also, monkeyflower, I have read lots of your other posts on various threads and have found them extremely insightful. You appear to know many of the statistics and can back most of your statements with these stats and sometimes even with links to the stats you're referencing. Just wondering what your background is. Are you also somehow tied to the medical field? How do you know so much? Thank you for sharing what you know with those of us who are trying to learn the truth about this disease and the window period in particular.
Also, monkeyflower, I have read lots of your other posts on various threads and have found them extremely insightful. You appear to know many of the statistics and can back most of your statements with these stats and sometimes even with links to the stats you're referencing. Just wondering what your background is. Are you also somehow tied to the medical field? How do you know so much? Thank you for sharing what you know with those of us who are trying to learn the truth about this disease and the window period in particular.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Since you already have read the forum, you know my reply. You were at virtually no risk, almost certianly did not acquire HIV, and do not need HIV testing at all. But if you go ahead and get tested anyway, why not wait until 6 weeks instead of 5 weeks?
In response to the prolonged discussion below, those who don't understand why testing earlier than 3 months is reliable - and why there is an apparently discrepancy between my advice and other sources that suggest wating 3 months - should use the search link and enter 'time to positive HIV test' for many, many discussions.
The bottom line is that official sites (e.g., CDC) provide information based ONLY on the test performance itself. My advice to individual questions on this forum is based on my overall assessment of risk as well as test performance. If someone's risk of having caught HIV is only, say, 1 in 100,000, and if a test if 'only' 90% reliable at 4 weeks, then that person's chance of actually having HIV (after a negative test at 4 weeks) is 1 in a million. That is 37 times less likely than the chance of dying someday of a lightning strike.
But if someone really is at significant risk--say a guy who has unprotected anal with a partner known to have HIV--then the 90% reassurance of a negative test at 4 weeks clearly isn't good enough. Even with a negative test, there might be as high as 1 chance in 1000 that he still has HIV. Such a person needs a 3 month test.
Please take any further discussion on this topic over to the HIV Support Forum. This thread already is too long.
HHH, MD
In response to the prolonged discussion below, those who don't understand why testing earlier than 3 months is reliable - and why there is an apparently discrepancy between my advice and other sources that suggest wating 3 months - should use the search link and enter 'time to positive HIV test' for many, many discussions.
The bottom line is that official sites (e.g., CDC) provide information based ONLY on the test performance itself. My advice to individual questions on this forum is based on my overall assessment of risk as well as test performance. If someone's risk of having caught HIV is only, say, 1 in 100,000, and if a test if 'only' 90% reliable at 4 weeks, then that person's chance of actually having HIV (after a negative test at 4 weeks) is 1 in a million. That is 37 times less likely than the chance of dying someday of a lightning strike.
But if someone really is at significant risk--say a guy who has unprotected anal with a partner known to have HIV--then the 90% reassurance of a negative test at 4 weeks clearly isn't good enough. Even with a negative test, there might be as high as 1 chance in 1000 that he still has HIV. Such a person needs a 3 month test.
Please take any further discussion on this topic over to the HIV Support Forum. This thread already is too long.
HHH, MD
Yes. Good question! That's what I'm really wondering too I guess since it seems in this forum that people are being reassured that they can be confident in their neg test results after 42 days, 8 wks, etc.
do you know anyone who turns positive after testing negative at 3 month test. What are the reasons for people who turn positive after 3 months?
Thanx
Thanx
Yes, I agree w/ Dumbo. From everything I've read on this site, it appears that it is a lot more difficult to contract HIV as a male having unprotected vaginal sex w/ a female. I think I read in a couple of places on this site the doctor said it was something like a 1 in 2000 chance.
I definitely think that the anxiety can play a huge role in symptoms appearing as well. For example in my own case, my boyfriend (of nearly 3 years) and I were on a "break" last October, and I had an unprotected sex exposure w/ a guy who I've known for like 11 yrs and had had no prior sexual history with. The guy I had this one exposure with had had a vasectomy performed after fathering a child w/ a girl who he dated briefly who had been previously described to me as the "trailor trash" type. This scared me thinking she may have been the promiscuous type. He told me that when he had his vasectomy done, they tested him for HIV and he was negative. Since I don't know if he was tested w/in the window period, that was part of what drove my major anxiety as well. I had not yet found the information regarding his liklihood of contracting the virus through unprotected vaginal sex being so low. Now I know that is supposedly really unlikely.
One other thing that freaked me out was that when this guy was confessing his long felt love, admiration, and desire to be w/ me both sexually and in a realationship, one of the things he said was, "Even if you had HIV, I'd still want to be w/ you. " That kind of freaks me out because a piece of me worries that maybe he had already tested positive and that's why he wouldn't be concerned about that. What if he lied about testing negative and knowingly put me at risk. I really don't think he's the kind of person who would do that too me, but it was still a fear I had post exposure. He had said this to me in response to me telling him that I do have genital herpes which I contracted from my boyfriend eventually. (I knew my bf had it when we first got together & was willing to take that risk for true love.)
Anyway, that aside, I had huge guilt over this exposure & ran back to my boyfriend telling him I did not want to continue our break the very next day. I did not however tell my boyfriend about the sexual exposure.
Freaking out inside, I waited until the next ob/gyn appointment I had scheduled which was in mid-January & got tested because that was nearly 3 mths after the exposure. It came back neg, but I still had anxiety because I hadn't waited the full 3 mths. This continued guilt drove me to get retested by my primary care doctor again in March which was about 4 1/2 months after this exposure.
While waiting for those test results, I got the most horrible fatigue I've ever had. I normally run for 1/2 hr to 1 hr on the treadmill @ the gym 5 days per week and I could barely walk a 1/2 hr it was so bad. I also had chills @ night in bed for a couple of nights & an enlarged lymph node in my neck on the left side which I can still feel even now and it's been almost 7 mths after the exposure now. Anyway, whether these symptoms were brought on because of the guilt or if the stress of worry lowered my immune system to the point that I ended up w/ some other viral type infection, I will never know I guess. The 4 and 1/2 month test did come back negative which according to all of DR HHH's post would appear conclusive to him that I'm negative.
I sometimes worry though even now about the flu-like symptoms primarily because the fatigue was so severe and because I can still feel that one enlarged lymph node in my neck. It's about the size of one little peanut out of it's shell maybe. Anyway, the reason I still worry is because of all these websites that say in rare instances the antibodies can take up to 6 mths to be detectable by the ELISA/Western blot and other tests. I'm wondering if those delayed symptoms that happened after three months could indicate that I might be one of those few.
At first I thought maybe since I'm so healthy otherwise, it might have taking the viris longer to show up if I was infected, but after I did more research, I found that some sites say that the people that usually take up to 6 months to seroconvert have other severe illnesses which may surpress the immune system like leukemia or have recently received an organ donation, or have been receiving chemo for other cancers. For these reason, now that I'm six months out I'm considering being retested for the 3rd time so that I can know 100%.
I could not post my own story as a new question though I tried about 6 or 7 times today. It kept telling me the forum was full so although I wish the doctor could respond to my concerns, if any of you out there who have comments about my situation too, please post those as well. I'd like to know what any of you out there think about whether or not I have anything to have continued anxiety about. Thanks all.
I definitely think that the anxiety can play a huge role in symptoms appearing as well. For example in my own case, my boyfriend (of nearly 3 years) and I were on a "break" last October, and I had an unprotected sex exposure w/ a guy who I've known for like 11 yrs and had had no prior sexual history with. The guy I had this one exposure with had had a vasectomy performed after fathering a child w/ a girl who he dated briefly who had been previously described to me as the "trailor trash" type. This scared me thinking she may have been the promiscuous type. He told me that when he had his vasectomy done, they tested him for HIV and he was negative. Since I don't know if he was tested w/in the window period, that was part of what drove my major anxiety as well. I had not yet found the information regarding his liklihood of contracting the virus through unprotected vaginal sex being so low. Now I know that is supposedly really unlikely.
One other thing that freaked me out was that when this guy was confessing his long felt love, admiration, and desire to be w/ me both sexually and in a realationship, one of the things he said was, "Even if you had HIV, I'd still want to be w/ you. " That kind of freaks me out because a piece of me worries that maybe he had already tested positive and that's why he wouldn't be concerned about that. What if he lied about testing negative and knowingly put me at risk. I really don't think he's the kind of person who would do that too me, but it was still a fear I had post exposure. He had said this to me in response to me telling him that I do have genital herpes which I contracted from my boyfriend eventually. (I knew my bf had it when we first got together & was willing to take that risk for true love.)
Anyway, that aside, I had huge guilt over this exposure & ran back to my boyfriend telling him I did not want to continue our break the very next day. I did not however tell my boyfriend about the sexual exposure.
Freaking out inside, I waited until the next ob/gyn appointment I had scheduled which was in mid-January & got tested because that was nearly 3 mths after the exposure. It came back neg, but I still had anxiety because I hadn't waited the full 3 mths. This continued guilt drove me to get retested by my primary care doctor again in March which was about 4 1/2 months after this exposure.
While waiting for those test results, I got the most horrible fatigue I've ever had. I normally run for 1/2 hr to 1 hr on the treadmill @ the gym 5 days per week and I could barely walk a 1/2 hr it was so bad. I also had chills @ night in bed for a couple of nights & an enlarged lymph node in my neck on the left side which I can still feel even now and it's been almost 7 mths after the exposure now. Anyway, whether these symptoms were brought on because of the guilt or if the stress of worry lowered my immune system to the point that I ended up w/ some other viral type infection, I will never know I guess. The 4 and 1/2 month test did come back negative which according to all of DR HHH's post would appear conclusive to him that I'm negative.
I sometimes worry though even now about the flu-like symptoms primarily because the fatigue was so severe and because I can still feel that one enlarged lymph node in my neck. It's about the size of one little peanut out of it's shell maybe. Anyway, the reason I still worry is because of all these websites that say in rare instances the antibodies can take up to 6 mths to be detectable by the ELISA/Western blot and other tests. I'm wondering if those delayed symptoms that happened after three months could indicate that I might be one of those few.
At first I thought maybe since I'm so healthy otherwise, it might have taking the viris longer to show up if I was infected, but after I did more research, I found that some sites say that the people that usually take up to 6 months to seroconvert have other severe illnesses which may surpress the immune system like leukemia or have recently received an organ donation, or have been receiving chemo for other cancers. For these reason, now that I'm six months out I'm considering being retested for the 3rd time so that I can know 100%.
I could not post my own story as a new question though I tried about 6 or 7 times today. It kept telling me the forum was full so although I wish the doctor could respond to my concerns, if any of you out there who have comments about my situation too, please post those as well. I'd like to know what any of you out there think about whether or not I have anything to have continued anxiety about. Thanks all.
Read the post prior to yours and the many hundreds before that regarding vaginal sex with partner of unknown status and how often hiv infection, especially female to male, actually happens.
It can happen, obviously, but i suspect the Dr. could basically copy and paste his response from the post before yours and use the same answer.
I had a ton of unprotected vaginal sex in the 80's and early 90's, and with some questionable female partners to be sure, until I smartened up and I came out ok. Not that that's an endorsement, but I am trying to point out that most times, from my own experience and from the experience of this board, most people worry about infection simply because it was infidelity and they fear infecting their wife/GF.
So I think the people that told you this same thing are correct.....it is probably guilt that is driving your anxiety.
It can happen, obviously, but i suspect the Dr. could basically copy and paste his response from the post before yours and use the same answer.
I had a ton of unprotected vaginal sex in the 80's and early 90's, and with some questionable female partners to be sure, until I smartened up and I came out ok. Not that that's an endorsement, but I am trying to point out that most times, from my own experience and from the experience of this board, most people worry about infection simply because it was infidelity and they fear infecting their wife/GF.
So I think the people that told you this same thing are correct.....it is probably guilt that is driving your anxiety.
For what it's worth, Dr. Handsfield said he was at a conference with around 300 other HIV specialists/researchers, and not one of them had ever seen a six week negative result turn positive later.
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