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Possible HIV by Oral or what other with symptoms similar
Dear Drs,
May 17th I had sex with a female prostitute. Sfe penetration sex with condom
however gave her cunnilingus, and have bleeding gums.
She had no visible sores, not menstruating seemed 3 Weeks began
symptoms. Feverish fuzzy head, malaise, painful but not swollen lymph nodes, pains in my stomach,
white tongue, night sweats. Took an expired HIV home test and came up positive.
Went immediately to infectious disease Dr. showed her the test and told her what was
happening. She gave me an Elisa HIV fulll STD panel Hep ABC, Epstein Barr test and a prescription for Atripla didnt fill til after the test. All tests came up negative, Took Atripla for 5 days and when neg test I stopped. I took a DNA PCR HIV test at time, negative but after 5 days of Atripla.
My Epstein Barr was active high so possible. But not new or acute infection.
Symptoms now have continued for a month, very severe, very painful. Going to take
my 2 month Elisa and DNA test next week 7/17. Am am scared for we have gone through the gammit of diseases
which would cause all these symptoms for this long. I am very ill and very scared.
I think I was feeling better the days on Atripla, but my Dr. assured me it would kill most any
viral disease with it's strength. Her philosophy is to give it as soon as possible to possibly
erradicate as much of the virus as possible. My questions at this point are:
What other disease or afflicttion could cause these symptoms?
Do people have painful lymph nodes and symptoms for this long with HIV?
Could 5 days of Atripla skew my DNA PCR viral load test?
Because I had bleeding gums, do I have a chance of infection through cunnilingus?
How accurate is Elisa HIV test at 1 month?
What I have tested for at 1 month:
HIV 1 2 elisa 3 tests at 1 month negative
Epstein Barr VCA IGG positive high 2.33
Epstein Barr EBNA IGG positive high 4.79
Hepatitus A,B,C negative
Clamydia Negative
Cytlomega virus Negative
Lyme disease negative
May 17th I had sex with a female prostitute. Sfe penetration sex with condom
however gave her cunnilingus, and have bleeding gums.
She had no visible sores, not menstruating seemed 3 Weeks began
symptoms. Feverish fuzzy head, malaise, painful but not swollen lymph nodes, pains in my stomach,
white tongue, night sweats. Took an expired HIV home test and came up positive.
Went immediately to infectious disease Dr. showed her the test and told her what was
happening. She gave me an Elisa HIV fulll STD panel Hep ABC, Epstein Barr test and a prescription for Atripla didnt fill til after the test. All tests came up negative, Took Atripla for 5 days and when neg test I stopped. I took a DNA PCR HIV test at time, negative but after 5 days of Atripla.
My Epstein Barr was active high so possible. But not new or acute infection.
Symptoms now have continued for a month, very severe, very painful. Going to take
my 2 month Elisa and DNA test next week 7/17. Am am scared for we have gone through the gammit of diseases
which would cause all these symptoms for this long. I am very ill and very scared.
I think I was feeling better the days on Atripla, but my Dr. assured me it would kill most any
viral disease with it's strength. Her philosophy is to give it as soon as possible to possibly
erradicate as much of the virus as possible. My questions at this point are:
What other disease or afflicttion could cause these symptoms?
Do people have painful lymph nodes and symptoms for this long with HIV?
Could 5 days of Atripla skew my DNA PCR viral load test?
Because I had bleeding gums, do I have a chance of infection through cunnilingus?
How accurate is Elisa HIV test at 1 month?
What I have tested for at 1 month:
HIV 1 2 elisa 3 tests at 1 month negative
Epstein Barr VCA IGG positive high 2.33
Epstein Barr EBNA IGG positive high 4.79
Hepatitus A,B,C negative
Clamydia Negative
Cytlomega virus Negative
Lyme disease negative
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Welcome to our Forum. I looked at your interactions on the HIV Prevention community site and agree with the assessment provided there. I have no interest in taking part in a debate regarding the general information provided on the CDC web site which is constrained by their inability to provide personalized advice as we can nor in the fact that, as an governmental agency they need to never be wrong. Remember, the CDC also monitors the frequency as situations in which Americans are struck by lightning.
Your experience is a textbook of the bad things that can happen when anxiety takes over as well as what to do to make your results unreliable- testing with an outdated test, taking PEP based on such results and not getting a PCR test until after you had taken PEP were all precisely the wrong things to do.
As we have said innumerable times on this forum, virtually on a daily basis, The quoted figure for HIV risk, if one has oral sex with an infected partner is less than 1 in 10,000 and, in my estimation that is too high. Some experts state there is no risk at all from oral sex. Neither of us on this site have ever seen or reading the medical literature of a convincing instance in which HIV was passed by oral sex. This includes by all of the people who had gum disease, etc. thus even in the unlikely situation that your CSW partner had HIV (most do not) you were not at risk from unprotected oral sex.
Furthermore with regard to your symptoms, there are many possibilities, of which you know have strong information to indicate that you do not have HIV. If you had HIV causing your symptoms for more than a week, your HIV antibody and PCR tests would both be expected to be positive.
Finally, I can't help but note that you don't mention a Monospot test among the tests you have had. This should be done as well/
Bottom line, based on the type of exposure you report and well as your lab tests at 30 days, you should be comfortable that you do not have HIV but that something else is going on. I am confident that the HIV tests you are waiting for will be negative as your earlier ones were. At that point you can stop worrying about HIV and focus, with your doctor, on what is really causing your difficulties. I sincerely help these comments are helpful to you- they are provided in that spirit. EWH
Your experience is a textbook of the bad things that can happen when anxiety takes over as well as what to do to make your results unreliable- testing with an outdated test, taking PEP based on such results and not getting a PCR test until after you had taken PEP were all precisely the wrong things to do.
As we have said innumerable times on this forum, virtually on a daily basis, The quoted figure for HIV risk, if one has oral sex with an infected partner is less than 1 in 10,000 and, in my estimation that is too high. Some experts state there is no risk at all from oral sex. Neither of us on this site have ever seen or reading the medical literature of a convincing instance in which HIV was passed by oral sex. This includes by all of the people who had gum disease, etc. thus even in the unlikely situation that your CSW partner had HIV (most do not) you were not at risk from unprotected oral sex.
Furthermore with regard to your symptoms, there are many possibilities, of which you know have strong information to indicate that you do not have HIV. If you had HIV causing your symptoms for more than a week, your HIV antibody and PCR tests would both be expected to be positive.
Finally, I can't help but note that you don't mention a Monospot test among the tests you have had. This should be done as well/
Bottom line, based on the type of exposure you report and well as your lab tests at 30 days, you should be comfortable that you do not have HIV but that something else is going on. I am confident that the HIV tests you are waiting for will be negative as your earlier ones were. At that point you can stop worrying about HIV and focus, with your doctor, on what is really causing your difficulties. I sincerely help these comments are helpful to you- they are provided in that spirit. EWH
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
I really have nothing more to say. You do not have HIV. The authors of the paper you mention, pulished now almost 15 years ago are friends of mine and do not hold this report as eveidence of oral transmission of HIV. You can see my own thoughts about the PCR tests at the reply I made at this link -- http://www.medhelp.org/posts/HIV-Prevention/Question-about-testing-/show/1287510 .
You will need to work though your difficulties with your doctor. Sometimes this take both time and some trial and error testing. This will end my comments. EWH
You will need to work though your difficulties with your doctor. Sometimes this take both time and some trial and error testing. This will end my comments. EWH
Dr. Hook,
You were correct. 56 days after exposure My Elisa and PCR RNA tests are negative.
The numbers are with me very much so, unless Quest totally failed.
However we interpreted my mono as negative as well. All else is negative, my mycoplasma (Pneumonia in blood) came back with high antibodies and the Dr. was concerned. She put me on Zithromax for it and said it could cause the symptoms. And though she did say to rule out HIV now, she brought up one thing. RNA PCR viral load spike times and my 5 days of Atripla. (Just to keep my anxiety up of course)
So I did some research and it seems like Atripla could take down the viral load but I dont see losing that many copies in 5 days of acute infection. Acute infection seems more like in the hundreds of thousands. She said HIV hides in the lymph nodes and doesnt stay in the blood as much. Now I would be fine, actually my anxiety was down a couple days but my symptoms are still there waning but there, and I still do not have a concrete diagnosis. My 3 issues are:
1. I have gone through a perfect perfect list of ARS symptoms at about the perfect timing (30 days) Including lymph pain, oral thrush, myalgia, heaache, fever. About as perfect as any research describes and I don't see another virus or illness that I've not tested for doing this. I have experienced a syndrome, but for what?
2. Check this website: http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/insite?page=ask-01-03-17
and the study - Clinical and epidemiologic features of primary HIV infection
Schacker T; Collier AC; Hughes J; Shea T; Corey L. Ann Intern Med, 1996 Aug, 125:4, 257-64 Abstract
4 out of 12 or 33% of hiv in the study only reported Oral Genital contact. And of course the rest of the studies nail my timeframe of ARS on the head. There are some good studies with servoconverted subjects. I don't see them trying to cover anything but the data.
3. PCR RNA at 56 days with a 5 days of Atripla in between. Could Atripla knock down primary viral load that much in 5 days to skew this test? Could it also extend my Elisa Window?
Now desipte who comes to your site or HIV anxiety run amuck does, I have no interest in making myself crazier than I am. I was not concerned that I had a sexual episode with a risky person at all. The symptoms just hit me like a ton of bricks 3 weeks after and I had to do something. So I was'nt looking for anything. But my Dr. and I are running out of room for diagnosis. I realize at this point that the odds are ridiculously low
of HIV infection, but I just experienced a syndrome that is only described perfectly by ARS and my body feels very strange. I'm scared to engage with anyone sexually almost again!
I am currently treating for mycoplasma but my body tells me my symptoms are fading because I either kicked out or converted with some form of virus not bacteria.
What else would cause a syndrome comparable to HIV besides mono or mycoplasma?
Just trying to find out what happened to my body. I've never felt my lymph nodes before.
You were correct. 56 days after exposure My Elisa and PCR RNA tests are negative.
The numbers are with me very much so, unless Quest totally failed.
However we interpreted my mono as negative as well. All else is negative, my mycoplasma (Pneumonia in blood) came back with high antibodies and the Dr. was concerned. She put me on Zithromax for it and said it could cause the symptoms. And though she did say to rule out HIV now, she brought up one thing. RNA PCR viral load spike times and my 5 days of Atripla. (Just to keep my anxiety up of course)
So I did some research and it seems like Atripla could take down the viral load but I dont see losing that many copies in 5 days of acute infection. Acute infection seems more like in the hundreds of thousands. She said HIV hides in the lymph nodes and doesnt stay in the blood as much. Now I would be fine, actually my anxiety was down a couple days but my symptoms are still there waning but there, and I still do not have a concrete diagnosis. My 3 issues are:
1. I have gone through a perfect perfect list of ARS symptoms at about the perfect timing (30 days) Including lymph pain, oral thrush, myalgia, heaache, fever. About as perfect as any research describes and I don't see another virus or illness that I've not tested for doing this. I have experienced a syndrome, but for what?
2. Check this website: http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/insite?page=ask-01-03-17
and the study - Clinical and epidemiologic features of primary HIV infection
Schacker T; Collier AC; Hughes J; Shea T; Corey L. Ann Intern Med, 1996 Aug, 125:4, 257-64 Abstract
4 out of 12 or 33% of hiv in the study only reported Oral Genital contact. And of course the rest of the studies nail my timeframe of ARS on the head. There are some good studies with servoconverted subjects. I don't see them trying to cover anything but the data.
3. PCR RNA at 56 days with a 5 days of Atripla in between. Could Atripla knock down primary viral load that much in 5 days to skew this test? Could it also extend my Elisa Window?
Now desipte who comes to your site or HIV anxiety run amuck does, I have no interest in making myself crazier than I am. I was not concerned that I had a sexual episode with a risky person at all. The symptoms just hit me like a ton of bricks 3 weeks after and I had to do something. So I was'nt looking for anything. But my Dr. and I are running out of room for diagnosis. I realize at this point that the odds are ridiculously low
of HIV infection, but I just experienced a syndrome that is only described perfectly by ARS and my body feels very strange. I'm scared to engage with anyone sexually almost again!
I am currently treating for mycoplasma but my body tells me my symptoms are fading because I either kicked out or converted with some form of virus not bacteria.
What else would cause a syndrome comparable to HIV besides mono or mycoplasma?
Just trying to find out what happened to my body. I've never felt my lymph nodes before.
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