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Soap Massage, Masturbation with Vaginal Secretion and Frottage with Men...
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This forum is limited to prevention of HIV and to safe sex in general. All questions will be answered by H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D. or Edward W Hook, MD.

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Soap Massage, Masturbation with Vaginal Secretion and Frottage with Menstrual Blood

Hello Doctor, Thanks for taking my question. I would always practice safe sex, which to me means no penetration of any kind without a condom (oral, vaginal, anal)
These are list my risk exposures with dates in 2012:

1. Engaged in protected oral sex with condom with alot of mutual breast kissing, concern is the CSW licked my scrotum and body (she said her bf is a drug user) (Aug 30)

2. Engage in body massage with soap at an parlor with an CSW. She rubbed her gentials and body all over my body using soap. Our gentials probably brushed during the action.
She sat on my thighs near my scrotum rubbing her gential (genital) on my tigh and near gential (genital) area while masturbationing me with soap.  She also used mouth spray and performed analingius on me for 10 seconds.  I touched her clitorius only and masturbated myself (Sep 28)

3. Engaged in body to body massage in Bangkok, no gential (genital) contact. But she used some massage oil and rubbed her vagina than masturbated me immediately with the same hand. (Oct 11)

4. Gential (genital) and Breast frottage with clothes for 10 minute. She was wearing underwears and i was wearing cargo size shorts with no underwear . Problem is she was at end of her menstrual cycle and there was menstrual blood on the waist area my shorts.
about 3 cm, this incident really freaked me out. I washed my hands and masturbated myself immediately after this, I found there was blood in my semen.
I immediately went home and cotton swapped the tipped of my penis and there was blood. Went to ER, doctor examined and said no blood present. Took an X-ray of the area and doctors says no blockage / kidney stone. Did a Urine sample also came out with no blood present. He diagnosed Hermatospermia and said it will most likely run itself out, but i came home and cotton swapped again there was blood.
( OCt 21)

I want to note i had an HIV Rapid test Alere Determine ag/ab test in Oct 9 as part of my semi-anual exam and it was negative.  After the Sep 28 incident, My scortum was itchy and red
dermatologist doctor checked it out and said it was eczema, prescribe corticorsteriod trovacort, which cause flaky dry skin and was switched to Bethasomine. After an week it was gone. I've been having
dizziness and mild headache all day long for the past 5 days with no other symptom, docs put me on Nidol and Merislon.

1. Doctor would you recommend a full STD panel based on my actives?
2. I'm freaking out and most worried about HIV. I never had blood on my semen before. Is any of these activities poses any risk of STD infection and would it be to early from my recent exposure to get one?
3. Could the Hermatospermia increase my risk of infection with the frottage and menstruation?
4. Is it true that menstrual blood is less infectious? and could it be possible that her our frottage activity with clothes pushed some of her menstrual blood into my urethra? I'm confused, but i assumed all my urinating and ejaculation would clean that out, but i came home and swapped, there was still blood. However, 2 hours later i swapped the tip of my penis again and its now clean with no blood...
5. About contaminated HIV inflected fluids, would HIV die immediately after leaving the body?

Thanks doctor.

Tags: soap maassage, vaginal secretion, menstrual blood, frottage, hermatospermia
239123 tn?1267651214
Welcome to the forum.  Thanks for your question.

Congratulations on your dedication to safe sex for your commercial or other non-monogamous sexual exposures.  In all the events described, you have followed entirely safe practices with no significant risk of any STD.  No STDs are transmitted by licking the scrotum or elsewhere on the skin.  Soap instantaneously kills all STD bacteria and viruses, and STDs are not transmitted by hand-genital contact or massage, and cannot be transmitted by clothing.  Menstrual blood on your shorts or skin is risk free.  As for your symptoms, no STD causes itchy or red skin of the scrotum or anywhere else, and do not cause rashes that would be confused with eczema.  Headache and dizziness are not STD symptoms either.  Transient hematospermia usually doesn't indicate any infection; it occurs in many men from time to time.

For all those reasons, no STD testing is needed and if you have a regular partner, you can safely continue unprotected sex without risk of transmitting any infection.

I think those comments answer all your specific questions, but to be explicit so there is no misunderstanding:

1) There is no reason to be tested for any STDs at this time.  However, it's still a good idea for all non-monogamous sexually active people to have routine HIV and STD testing once a year -- but not because of the exposures you have described here.

2) There was no risk of HIV from the events described, regardless of menstrual blood.

3) Hematospermia makes noknown difference in the risk of acquring HIV or any other STD.

4) Menstrual blood could transmit HIV or STDs, but only with unprotected vaginal penetration.  From your description of your sexual exposures, there is no way your partner's blood could have gotten into your urethra.  Are you asking whether the blood in your semen was actually your partner's menstrual blood?  That's impossible.  I doubt your transient hematospermia had anything to do with your sexual exposures.

5) HIV dies as body secretions dry, but not "immediately" after leaving the body.  But this doesn't matter anyway.  You couldn't have caught HIV from the events described -- and anyway, the large majority of sex workers don't have HIV.

My advice is that if you continue commercial or other casual sexual exposures, you continue to follow the rigorous safe sex practices you describe above.  If you do that, you'll never need to worry about HIV or other STDs.

I hope this has helped calm your fears.  Best wishes--  HHH, MD
Avatar m tn
Thanks doctor for reassuring me.

I'm curious could the Hematopermia be  caused by excessive masturbation or trauma from my frottage? I been masturbating a lot lately probably 2-3 times a day.

Could I conclude that the alere hiv rapid assure me of my negative status on my activities 4 weeks prior to the test? Lastly doctor,would it be to soon to get a full panel std test from my latest exposure for a peace of mind?

239123 tn?1267651214
I don't know if excessive ejaculation can sometimes result in hematospermia. I wouldn't think so, but this is a question best answered by a urologist.

Your HIV test is defintive evidence you were not infected as of 6-8 weeks before the test.

I never recommend anybody get a "full STD panel" if that means every infection potentially sexually transmissible.  The only "full panel" we do in most STD clinics is gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis and HIV; testing for HSV, hepatitis, etc isn't necessary except when the risks are especially high, e.g. if there are symptoms that suggest infection.

Chlamydia and gonorrhea urine testing are accurate any time more than 2-3 days after the last exposure.  All blood tests need to be delayed until 6-8 weeks; and for HSV, 3-4 months.

That will end this thread.  Take care and stay safe.
Avatar m tn
Hi Doctor,

I just return from an STD clinic and they did an gram stain culture test from my Urethra. They said I have NGU and prescribe Doxycycline 100mg. The registered nursed said i mostly got this from penetrative sex. That is impossible, i can guarantee i had no sexual penetration of any kind aside from the incident as describe above.I did an urine sample afterward, and they say would be more accurate.

How accurate is the gram stain culture collection test? If i have NGU does that rule out gonnorhea (Gonorrhea)?

Would my rough frottage incident and excessive masturbation (usually 2-3 times/day) cause trauma and inflamed my urethra?

Is it possible to contract NGU -non sexually? I thought i was never at significant risk.

I am really confused and scared right now and think if i also got infected with HIV.

239123 tn?1267651214
The diagnosis of NGU is not very precise.  Most people with true NGU have an abnormal urethral discharge, as well as increased white blood cells in a urethral swab specimen.  When there is no discharge but only WBC in the urethra, STD clinics usually will treat for possible NGU, but in that situation the diagnosis is not confirmed.  I think you'll agree it's best to be safe, i.e. to over-treat rather than taking a risk of not treating at all.  But my guess is that you in fact had nothing wrong.  If you do indeed have NGU, the best guess is that there was an unrecognized condom failure somewhere along the line.  

As the name NGU implies, by definition gonorrhea is absent.  You can expect your gonorrhea test to be negative.

You still should not be worried.  The possibility of NGU does not increase the chance you caught HIV.  And NGU is pretty much harmless; even without treatment, there are no proved long-term consequences.
Avatar m tn
Hi Doctor,

Aside from the Protected Oral. The only penetrating sex is with my stable female partner, whom we always use condom as our pregnancy prevention.

From your response, can I say that my NGU diagnosis is not confirmed yet until my urine lab comes back for chlamydia ?

Doctor from your experience could I have gotten this from my exposure of vaginal fluid due to masturbation and frottage? The nurse said that in order to get NGU, infected bacterial fluid have to be pushed inside my urethra. This is why I am now afraid of contracting HIV.

Also is NGU be caused non-sexually?  I do have some NGU symptoms. No discharge, but discomfort in the groin area, Frequent urination(don't know if thats from the doxycycline  this just started today after i take the med), and urethra bleeding from yesterday.

239123 tn?1267651214
"...can I say that my NGU diagnosis is not confirmed yet until my urine lab comes back for chlamydia?"

If your chlamydia test is positive, it will mean you have chlamydial NGU. If negative, you may or may not have NGU at all (see my previous comments).

"...could I have gotten this from my exposure of vaginal fluid due to masturbation and frottage? The nurse said that in order to get NGU, infected bacterial fluid have to be pushed inside my urethra.  This is why I am now afraid of contracting HIV."

Theoretically this could happen. But as I said above, it is not confirmed you have NGU at all.  Probably treatment was prescribed only as a precaution.  However, HIV has never been known to be transmitted by hand-genital contact.  Even with entirely unprotected vaginal sex, the average transmission risk is only once for every 2,000 exposures.  Do your best to stop worrying about HIV.

"Also is NGU be caused non-sexually?"

Probably not.  But some cases are unexplained.

"I do have some NGU symptoms."

No, you do not.  NGU does not usually cause groin discomfort, frequent urination, or urethral bleeding.

That will have to end this thread.  Any further questions about all this should be to the STD clinic where you are being treated.  Good luck with it all.
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University of Washington
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