HIV Anxiety Support User Group
Tested negative at more than 4 months, but persistent white tongue scar...
About This Group:

This support group is for those who are suffering from stress or anxiety associated with uncertain HIV status. HIV anxiety is extremely isolating for those who are going through it, as it is often very difficult to discuss with friends and family members. This group is provided for sufferers of HIV anxiety to discuss their fears in a supportive environment. Those with anxiety over non-HIV STDs are also welcome. For personal advice concerning HIV risk, testing, and prevention, please post in the HIV Prevention Community.

Founded by joggen on October 4, 2009
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Tested negative at more than 4 months, but persistent white tongue scares me

I tested Negative at more than 4 months 1 week with a 4th generation Elisa test (Vironostika Uniform Ag/Ab). I took 2 previous tests (5 weeks and 9 weeks post incident), all Negative. All fine, and my risk was low (protected penetrative sex + unprotected insertive fellatio). You can read the whole story in my profile.

Around the same day I took my last HIV test, I was also diagnosed with "Candida Albacins Complex" (overgrowth of candida in my tongue - results reads as "moderate to severa candida albicans")

I wouldn't mind so much if it was for the fact that I have these persistent symptoms for the last 3 months:

- Hyper salivation
- Teeth marks in the sides of the tongue
- White tongue
- Irritated taste buds in the tip of the tongue

It's very hard to live day by day with these (real) symptoms.

I know nothing is absolute in life, neither in medicine, and these symptoms are already starting to question if I shouldn't make more specific tests (CD4 count or PCR RNA).

After all, in the literature I have found cases of seronegative HIV infection. Cases where the person has always Negative Antibody tests, but are found to be Positive through more specific tests. These cases do exist (you can google or check the site of the International AIDS Society), but are very rare (probably in the order of 1 to 100,000).

I already went to dermatologists, ORL, dentist. None seems to be concerned, but this is really affecting me.

Fluconazole in two doses (one week 50 mg, and a month later another week of 100mg) didn't do absolutely nothing to my white tongue.

If anyone has experienced similar symptoms or has any advice to give please let me know.

All the best.
18 Comments
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1629919_tn?1407244906
You had oral sex which is not a risk of HIV and you tested negative so you dont have HIV. Their is nothing else to say as the facts PROVE this.

Please dont spout rubbish from google because you can find anything you want on their and this forum will not allow posts that create fear for other posters with non factual paranoia old dated rubbish.

Its time you spent more time with the doctors getting help for your concerns.
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Avatar_m_tn
Well, actually the "rubbish" is not old dated (2010), is a review by the International AIDS society, you know, the one who organizes every year the International Aids Conference.

Thanks for your support anyway.

ps. I think most HIV experts worldwide would disagree with your affirmation about "oral sex = no risk for HIV".
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1629919_tn?1407244906
. I think most HIV experts worldwide would disagree with your affirmation about "oral sex = no risk for HIV".

Really, more rubbish you posted, ok how about this..

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/546013/HIV-and-ORAL-SEX-The-Facts

AND

by Emily_MHModerator,
And to clarify, it is this site's stance, based on studies and our own MedHelp experts (all of whom are world-renowned for their work in this field), that oral sex carries no risk for HIV.  
Emily

And to Conlcude..................... From EXPERTS


As you know from other posts about oral sex, our stance is that giving or receiving oral sex is not a risk for HIV.  Some others suggest that there is an appreciable risk of HIV from oral sex however, there are no convincing scientific reports which support these statements.  The presence of a burn in your mouth, or a sore, or ingestion of blood does not change this.  Still no risk an no reason for testing."  DR HOOK

"As far as HIV is concerned, there is no known risk of getting HIV from performing oral sex on an infected partner, even if that person's genital secretions get into your eyes or if you swallow"  DR HOOK

There is no debate (among experts) about the HIV risks associated with oral sex.  The risk is so low that almost nobody who cares for HIV infected patients has ever had a patient believed to have been infected that way.  Among experts, it's a semantic issue about using terms like "no risk" and "very low risk".  There is no difference between my or Dr. Hook's use of "low risk" and other experts' "no risk".
DR. HANDSFIELD

"And oral sex is basically safe sex -- completely safe with respect to HIV and although not zero risk for other STDs, the chance of infection is far lower than for unprotected vaginal or anal sex.  Please educate yourself about the real risks.  If you stick with oral sex and condom-protected vaginal or anal sex, you have no HIV worries and very little worry about other STDs. "   DR HANDSFIELD

"I am sure you can find lots of people who belive that HIV is transmitted by oral sex, but you will not find scientific data to support this unrealistic concern..."   DR HOOK

"HIV is not spread by touching, masturbation, oral sex or condom protected sex."- DR. HOOK

in the public HIV Prevention forum of MedHelp, TEAK and the other moderators maintain that oral sex in all forms is a zero risk activity. Would you agree with this assessment?  
I TOTALLY AGREE / DR GARCIA

The observation on thousand and thousand of observations is that HIV is not spread by oral sex (of any sort).  DR. HOOK

"With regard to the question you ask, I will repeat, as I’ve said more times than I can think- there are NO credible cases in which persons have acquired HIV through performance of oral sex- none!!.  The chance that you will be the first is ridiculously low.  You are more likely to be hit by lightening while reading my reply to you. DR HOOK

"HIV is not spread by masturbation, through oral sex, through kissing or other casual contact." DR HOOK

"There is no credible evidence that HIV is spread through oral sex, with or without the presence of cuts or blood in the persons mouth."- DR HOOK

"Oral sex. there is no evidence that HIV is spread through giving or receiving oral sex"- DR HOOK

"HIV is not spread through oral sex."  DR HOOK

"HIV is not spread through giving or receiving oral sex"   DR HOOK


Time you got educated on the matter !!
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Avatar_m_tn
I don't want to start a battle about if oral sex is or not a risk, but as I said, most sources worldwide will NEVER say oral sex is no risk:

http://bmj-sti.highwire.org/content/77/5/307.full

http://www.aidsmap.com/Oral-sex-risk-very-low-but-not-zero-concludes-systematic-review/page/1432786/

http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/insite?page=pr-rr-05

http://sti.bmj.com/content/80/4/324.1.full

As I wrote in another forum, is better to reduce the risk to zero by advising people to use condoms for oral sex, rather than make them believe "there is no risk".

Anyway, if someone else went through similar symptoms please let me know! Thanks.
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Avatar_m_tn
Dear avalyn3

Some time ago (http://www.medhelp.org/posts/HIV-Prevention/Risk-of-HIV-from-oral/show/1706397#post_7837134) you said that with your 9 week test, you will be definitely sure that you did not catch HIV. (Anyway, there are not documented Insertive Oral transmissions).

Why do you believe that YOU have a seronegative HIV infection? I notice that you are obsessed with that sexual experience. It was with a CSW? Maybe because you feel guilty or tainted, you think that you deserve being punished.

In my case, because I had a hanjob from a CSW, my obsessive mind tell me that I was exposed to every STD possible. It's ridiculous, and I hope that you understand that you are living something similar.

Why don't you try some therapy? =)

Regards
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1629919_tn?1407244906
Which forum did you write on ??

So moving on, your negative tests prove nothing as well, it that also what your saying?
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Avatar_m_tn
I have written in thebody forums. In that site (as many others), oral sex IS considered a small but real risk:

http://www.thebody.com/content/art58210.html

About your question. Well, the window period is 3 months for virtually everyone. However, I have read -and some doctors will also recommend- that when you have unexplained symptoms, you should retest.

In my case, I have a persistent white tongue for the last THREE months. All the symptoms I listed in my first post are real and are persistent for the last three months. I have been to dermatologists, gastroenterologists, dentists. No solution so far.

Next week I will go to another dermatologist and also to an infectologist to see what happens.

I know my fear is irrational, and I say this because the odds of testing positive after getting a ******* and 3 negative tests is virtually zero. I know it.

Then again I wake up every morning since June with these symptoms as a constant reminder that something's wrong.

When you were healthy all your life , never had these problems, and out of the blue this commes, then you start to question everything.

Of course, Apollo1971, I wish from all my heart I am wrong and you are right.

@troubledmx: I will go to a therapy but first I need to solve these physical problems. and not, it was not a CSW but a random girl I met at a bar (first one night stand of my life and see what happens).
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1629919_tn?1407244906
The odds of getting hiv then from oral sex then 3 negative tests is zero, its zero pure and simple in real terms.

For me its quite simple - stress.

Booze and stress let alone standard medication can give you a issue with your tongue, we see it all the time. Hiv would not give you this symptom so soon, thats a fact mate.

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Avatar_m_tn
thanks.

oral thrush may occur during early in the infection:

http://ww1.aegis.org/askdoc/ASKD040317.html

next week I will see some doctors, I will update you with what they find.
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1629919_tn?1407244906
I know the facts of HIV thank you , it's you that dose not.

It's not early infection now is it? And if the infection was down to HIV then you would have tested positive Fact!!!
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Avatar_f_tn
I suffer from a lot of stress and I have all kinds of physical symptoms and I´ve been to a doctor and had hundreds of different lab tests but there´s no medical reason to any of the symptoms. The only diagnosis is: stress. It might seem unbelievable, I didn´t believe it myself at first, but our mind really affects the body. Next time you have an appointment with a doctor I suggest that you mention the anxiety you´re having, and as someone already recommended, it might be a good idea to see a psychologist.
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Avatar_m_tn
just an update on my situation:

went today to a dermatologist due my tongue problems. she tool two oral swabs and is going to test them for candida and other stuff. I will go back on Monday for a battery of other tests.

she also asked for HIV and syphilis. told her I had both done (syphilis at the 3 months mark and HIV more than 4 months post incident).

tomorrow I am going to an infectologist (which is also an HIV specialist). will get another test and ask for his opinion.

i will get back to you with my results.
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Avatar_m_tn
Well I for one am very eager to hear how that goes for you, since I have similar symptoms, the same exposure, and thus far am three months negative (HIV & Syphilis). Dr. Wohl at thebody said I was nuts to think I had HIV already after my 8 week RNA.

We both have an unrelated virus EBV, HBV, HTLV or a very tenacious CMV. Honestly I've read many, many long posts like this, same exposure, same symptoms going on for months. They all just trail off. No one ever finds HIV, or any other pathogenic agent. They just get over their anxiety.
Or perhaps theres a related retrovirus which remains undiscovered (that's a complete possibility), but life is crazy isn't it?

In my case for example, a properly timed p24 and a DNA and an RNA would have to be negative, while the antibody is negative at 12 weeks, AND it would have to be an oral transmission from a single instance with my only partner this year.

If all those things go wrong. God hates me enough that I should die. But I am not well. I have your symptoms. The logical explanation: the pathogen isn't HIV it's one of the 1 million other viruses which can infect human beings.

I've never found a single instance of anyone who seroconverted after three months in a forum and reported their results or knew such a person personally (without an immune condition), nor have I found anyone who had tested positive after oral. Posting that I got HIV from oral to warn others would be one of the first 4 things I did before immolating myself if I seroconverted. I'm sure most people feel the same way. And I've been obsessing over this for 90 days. I've read the medical literature too. Receptive oral transmission is to-say-the-least, very, very rare. So rare if you knew it had happened for sure, it would be a big-deal.  

You are arguing trying to prove you have HIV. Why? Will that help you figure out what's making you sick? (no it won't) Although I completely feel your frustration, I feel exactly the same way.  

Anyways. Keep us posted. Maybe you'll finally get this sorted.
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Avatar_m_tn
thank you for your concern. tested today for HIV again, couldn't meet the HIV specialist, so I am going for that probably next week regardless the result.

I have a partner, and we were planning to have a baby next year. I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I slept with that girl :(

So until my symptoms persist, I just want to make sure I am 100% fine. I don't want to pass her anything. Hopefully, we use condoms - as we think birth control pills are unhealthy- so she's fine. she is also a usual blood donor, and she has been tested negative for everything always. I told her about what happened, she forgave me and she has been very supportive despite what I did.

Anyway, I just have to be sure that I am OK. I will keep you guys updated.
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Avatar_m_tn
You're in the same boat as many of us fuckups.
I can't deal with the stress either. I just went for a blood-test for the third time in 6 days. I can't function.

There's some cognitive error, where because we feel guilty, we think we are going to be punished, and that will somehow overwhelm the statistical impossibility that we have HIV.

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Avatar_m_tn
After u get ur negative test, try making an appointment with a gastroenterologist .  I can bet ur anxiety, stress, and poor eating habits have made ur digestion a terrible place.
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Avatar_m_tn
thank you.

I was already at a gastroenterologist. she ran a series of tests. everything came back normal.

I am updating on my results in my journal:

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/553718/Unexplained-tongue-problems-after-a-low-risk-exposure?personal_page_id=2596706

I did another tests at more than 7 months, negative again. Tongue issues still there. Will consider a PCR RNA in case this persists.
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1629919_tn?1407244906
PCR test for what, you dont have HIV what part about that dont you understand?

You never had a risk, what part about that dont you understand?

You can keep testing for the next 20 years but it wont change the fact your negative and never will. How many tests will it take, another 1, 10 , 100?

Buddy i mean this will all due respect, get some help foryour current state of mind because until you do your life is wasted on this and your not going to get over it.
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