Aa
Do you have any answers to put my worried as heck mind at rest?
I just read the health page you created, and found it to be very helpful. That was the sort of answer I was looking for to help me out, full of facts! I have a scientific mind and found it very useful, thank you.
M
M
Your definition of getting "jumped on" must be very different from mine. All I see on this thread is factual, to the point answers. You're asking questions we cannot answer. All we can tell you is why we maintain that oral sex is NOT an HIV risk, based on science and facts. How others came to their conclusions is hard to say. Probably a good bit of it has to do with certain agencies/people being overly conservative.
Again, we can only give you our assessment, and let you figure out for yourself which information you're comfortable with. In decades of the virus, a "few" cases isn't anything significant or consistent...and remember that assessing HIV is difficult too, as medical professionals must rely on their patient's reported risks, it's subjective data, not objective data. There are ALL kinds of reasons why the reported info may not always be accurate....one of the biggest ones being that a newly infected person would MUCH rather tell their loved ones they got infected through oral sex than say, anal sex with another man. Another reason would be inaccurate/sketchy memory of a sexual encounter (especially if alcohol was involved, which it often is).
If you haven't already, read the health page I created to discuss this very topic. Hopefully it will answer more questions for you:
http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/HIV/HIV-AND-ORAL-SEX-THE-FACTS/show/1278?cid=68
Again, we can only give you our assessment, and let you figure out for yourself which information you're comfortable with. In decades of the virus, a "few" cases isn't anything significant or consistent...and remember that assessing HIV is difficult too, as medical professionals must rely on their patient's reported risks, it's subjective data, not objective data. There are ALL kinds of reasons why the reported info may not always be accurate....one of the biggest ones being that a newly infected person would MUCH rather tell their loved ones they got infected through oral sex than say, anal sex with another man. Another reason would be inaccurate/sketchy memory of a sexual encounter (especially if alcohol was involved, which it often is).
If you haven't already, read the health page I created to discuss this very topic. Hopefully it will answer more questions for you:
http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/HIV/HIV-AND-ORAL-SEX-THE-FACTS/show/1278?cid=68
Thank you for your answer, this is helpful. A sore throat has begun (two and a half weeks after initial exposure) I assume this does not change the answers you have all given?
M
M
Contact the moderators for a refund since your question in the International Expert Forum was not answered.
Saliva has properties the inactivate and break down the virus thus rendering it unable to infect.
The Nursenathan mentioned a few "documented" cases. Those have been performing oral on a man, but those have not been verified.
And why do others say a risk? You have to ask them.
Saliva has properties the inactivate and break down the virus thus rendering it unable to infect.
The Nursenathan mentioned a few "documented" cases. Those have been performing oral on a man, but those have not been verified.
And why do others say a risk? You have to ask them.
Kirstie_MHModerator Feb 06, 2014
We can't tell you what to believe, but we can tell you that our forums aren't a venue for debate over our stance that oral sex carries no risk for HIV. Our stance will not change unless we receive definitive scientific evidence to the contrary.
We can't tell you what to believe, but we can tell you that our forums aren't a venue for debate over our stance that oral sex carries no risk for HIV. Our stance will not change unless we receive definitive scientific evidence to the contrary.
Hi
I understand and thanks for getting back to me. However, nobody has actually answered my initial question and I was just looking for clarification, WHY is HIV not a risk factor in this situation? WHY do others not agree there is no risk from oral and HIV?
After having paid £20 to ask this question (that was not answered in the first place) you have all jumped the gun thinking that I'm not taking your first answer as final. If you had answered my initial questions then I would not have asked again, I was trying to paraphrase and get an answer to my initial concern. I think I had a right to ask the questions I asked, without you all jumping on me. I am certainly not looking for a debate, I was only asking a question I was hoping to have answered!
If it frustrates you that people question you over and over again regarding oral sex risk, then fine, I understand your frustrations, I really do. All I would advise is that you do not paint every patient who is asking this same question first time round with the same brush, that's all! Especially seeing as they pay to ask you these questions. I'm not an expert in STIs, I'm training to be a paediatric nurse.
Many thanks for your answers and time,
M
I understand and thanks for getting back to me. However, nobody has actually answered my initial question and I was just looking for clarification, WHY is HIV not a risk factor in this situation? WHY do others not agree there is no risk from oral and HIV?
After having paid £20 to ask this question (that was not answered in the first place) you have all jumped the gun thinking that I'm not taking your first answer as final. If you had answered my initial questions then I would not have asked again, I was trying to paraphrase and get an answer to my initial concern. I think I had a right to ask the questions I asked, without you all jumping on me. I am certainly not looking for a debate, I was only asking a question I was hoping to have answered!
If it frustrates you that people question you over and over again regarding oral sex risk, then fine, I understand your frustrations, I really do. All I would advise is that you do not paint every patient who is asking this same question first time round with the same brush, that's all! Especially seeing as they pay to ask you these questions. I'm not an expert in STIs, I'm training to be a paediatric nurse.
Many thanks for your answers and time,
M
Kirstie_MHModerator Feb 06, 2014
We can't tell you what to believe, but we can tell you that our forums aren't a venue for debate over our stance that oral sex carries no risk for HIV. Our stance will not change unless we receive definitive scientific evidence to the contrary.
We can't tell you what to believe, but we can tell you that our forums aren't a venue for debate over our stance that oral sex carries no risk for HIV. Our stance will not change unless we receive definitive scientific evidence to the contrary.
No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States
Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228
AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men
Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.
Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:
Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;
Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.
There is no debate (among experts) about the HIV risks associated with oral sex. The risk is so low that almost nobody who cares for HIV infected patients has ever had a patient believed to have been infected that way. Among experts, it's a semantic issue about using terms like "no risk" and "very low risk". There is no difference between my or Dr. Hook's use of "low risk" and other experts' "no risk".
DR. HANSFIELD
"And oral sex is basically safe sex -- completely safe with respect to HIV and although not zero risk for other STDs, the chance of infection is far lower than for unprotected vaginal or anal sex. Please educate yourself about the real risks. If you stick with oral sex and condom-protected vaginal or anal sex, you have no HIV worries and very little worry about other STDs. " DR HANSFIELD
"I am sure you can find lots of people who believe that HIV is transmitted by oral sex, but you will not find scientific data to support this unrealistic concern..." DR HOOK
"HIV is not spread by touching, masturbation, oral sex or condom protected sex."- DR. HOOK
in the public HIV Prevention forum of MedHelp, TEAK and the other moderators maintain that oral sex in all forms is a zero risk activity. Would you agree with this assessment?
I TOTALLY AGREE / DR GARCIA
"HIV is not spread by masturbation, through oral sex, through kissing or other casual contact." Dr. Hook
"The observation on thousands and thousands of observations is that HIV is not spread by oral sex (of any sort)." DR HOOK
"I would not say your risk ,if he had HIV is "slim to none"- that's too high. I would say they are effectively zero. How much of his ejaculate or other genital secretions you may have swallowed makes no difference. EWH "
"As far as HIV is concerned, there is no known risk of getting HIV from performing oral sex on an infected partner, even if that person's genital secretions get into your eyes or if you swallow." Dr.Hook
HIV is not spread by oral sex, giving or receiving, even if sores, gum disease or blood is present
DR HOOK
The fact is that there are no cases in which HIV has been proven to be transmitted by oral sex, including fellatio.. EWH
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States
Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228
AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men
Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.
Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:
Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;
Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.
There is no debate (among experts) about the HIV risks associated with oral sex. The risk is so low that almost nobody who cares for HIV infected patients has ever had a patient believed to have been infected that way. Among experts, it's a semantic issue about using terms like "no risk" and "very low risk". There is no difference between my or Dr. Hook's use of "low risk" and other experts' "no risk".
DR. HANSFIELD
"And oral sex is basically safe sex -- completely safe with respect to HIV and although not zero risk for other STDs, the chance of infection is far lower than for unprotected vaginal or anal sex. Please educate yourself about the real risks. If you stick with oral sex and condom-protected vaginal or anal sex, you have no HIV worries and very little worry about other STDs. " DR HANSFIELD
"I am sure you can find lots of people who believe that HIV is transmitted by oral sex, but you will not find scientific data to support this unrealistic concern..." DR HOOK
"HIV is not spread by touching, masturbation, oral sex or condom protected sex."- DR. HOOK
in the public HIV Prevention forum of MedHelp, TEAK and the other moderators maintain that oral sex in all forms is a zero risk activity. Would you agree with this assessment?
I TOTALLY AGREE / DR GARCIA
"HIV is not spread by masturbation, through oral sex, through kissing or other casual contact." Dr. Hook
"The observation on thousands and thousands of observations is that HIV is not spread by oral sex (of any sort)." DR HOOK
"I would not say your risk ,if he had HIV is "slim to none"- that's too high. I would say they are effectively zero. How much of his ejaculate or other genital secretions you may have swallowed makes no difference. EWH "
"As far as HIV is concerned, there is no known risk of getting HIV from performing oral sex on an infected partner, even if that person's genital secretions get into your eyes or if you swallow." Dr.Hook
HIV is not spread by oral sex, giving or receiving, even if sores, gum disease or blood is present
DR HOOK
The fact is that there are no cases in which HIV has been proven to be transmitted by oral sex, including fellatio.. EWH
We're not here to debate what others say. Most reputable professionals I've met have stated that oral sex is either not a risk at all, or such a low (even theoretical) risk, that it's not worth worrying about or testing for. The truth is, if oral sex was a realistic risk, people would be reporting new infections every day and they're not. There are literally a FEW cases reported since the beginning of HIV. That isn't something that should concern anyone.
We get this type of question all of the time. Bottom line is, we're firm in our assessment, but people can still choose to decide what they will about oral sex.
We get this type of question all of the time. Bottom line is, we're firm in our assessment, but people can still choose to decide what they will about oral sex.
what would you say to the abundance of professionals that say HIV is at risk of transmission from oral sex?
What you describe is not any risk for hiv.
Its transmitted through unprotected vaginal/anal sex, sharing iv drug needles and mother to child.
Its transmitted through unprotected vaginal/anal sex, sharing iv drug needles and mother to child.
P.S. are healthcare workers (nurses, doctors) who are HIVpos able to work in a healthcare setting?
Hi
I would like some verification on this topic if I may! As a student nurse I should be a bit more clued up on this topic but hope to be enlightened some more by you guys. Does the following scenario pose a risk for HIV infection:
10-15 minutes unprotected cunnilingus on sex worker of unknown HIV status
Sex worker spat in mouth
Protected vaginal intercourse with worker
1) Why is there such an ongoing debate regarding whether or not oral sex is a transmission for HIV?
2)Why is this speculative and not definitive?
3) Would you recommend testing in this scenario? If so/not, why?
4) Could you care to mention any ball park figures for risk of HIV infection in this scenario?
Would LOVE some expert advice, thanks.
M
I would like some verification on this topic if I may! As a student nurse I should be a bit more clued up on this topic but hope to be enlightened some more by you guys. Does the following scenario pose a risk for HIV infection:
10-15 minutes unprotected cunnilingus on sex worker of unknown HIV status
Sex worker spat in mouth
Protected vaginal intercourse with worker
1) Why is there such an ongoing debate regarding whether or not oral sex is a transmission for HIV?
2)Why is this speculative and not definitive?
3) Would you recommend testing in this scenario? If so/not, why?
4) Could you care to mention any ball park figures for risk of HIV infection in this scenario?
Would LOVE some expert advice, thanks.
M
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