Aa
3 month negative 6 month positive?
Thank all of you, who work and donate their time to this site.
I would exchange everything to be wrong in my statements.
But I think I will be one of those few people, who test false negative after 3 month (16 weeks).
Those who thought they had protected sex and didn't notice condom break.
I'm writing this because I'm sure I have HIV, from my and my wife's symptoms.
I familiar ways of HIV transmission and about statement that symptoms which usually means nothing. But I have studied a lot of literature and also logic was my favorite subject at university. So I can make a conclusions.
None of the symptoms are specific to HIV and from none of this symptoms you can say you are negative or positive, this is only half of the truth. You can't say about negative status because some people don't have symptoms. But you can reliably say if someone had ARS if you consider time, quantity and sequence of symptoms, exclude other illnesses with tests (mono etc like in my case). So there not so much left. Not in all cases, but some of them are obvious.
My case is different from everything I read on other sites. Not like swollen lymph nodes after 3 month of exposure.
But just classic:
ARS symptoms,
than symptoms of weakened immunity approved by tests
and than recovery also approved by tests.
The same with my wife.
Everything except positive test at 3 month mark.
But I'm sure they will be on this week.
03/31/2013 I had sex with CSW in Ukraine. Girl changed a condom with hand which contained her secretion. I used chlorhexidine to disinfect penis before she put condom on so protective layer of the skin was damaged. Chlorhexidine is efective against STD but damages skin so makes it more vulnerable for HIV.
We had vaginal sex before and after this. I didn't notice condom break, but I didn't cheeked it. When I extracted penis the end of condom hanged so I can't say was it intact or just I didn't noticed it. It is possible it could bread and when I extracted it, the condom slip so the hole was not visible. I didn't noticed enough sperm inside as usual so this was also suspicious. She was new to this businesses so I'm not sure if she used proper lube, and infected not so long so her viral load was high.
04/04/2013 I had sex with another CSW, which behaved very strange. In her form she sad she reject those who are under 30 years, later she said 35 (don't want to put young people at risk?). She was ironic about, my remark about heart health and walks in the fresh air. She also interested with my age and how old was my grand-grandmother to know how long I could live.
We didn't change the condom, but I had damaged skin on the hand, and her liquids from the condom contacted her hand during blow-job and after that she held me with the same hand at the place where skin was damaged. It lasted about a 30 min. Also she wiped my penis with the same napkin she removed condom.
After both cases I washed hands and penis with Sterillium which claims to disinfect HCV,HBV and HIV. And had a shower.
After second occasion I found a grume on my hand, so it could contact my damaged skin. It was only minor scratch of the surface layer without blood. But this makes me suspect she was at stage before or during periods.
Symptoms
During night from 04/05/2013 - 04/06/2013 we had sauna with friends, and than I had unprotected sex with my wife.
And the same night my symptoms appeared. (6 days and 1 day after exposures).
I suppose extreme cold and hot rapid temperature changes could affect HIV progression. I jumped from sauna in cold water.
I woke up at night from chill. I was all sweat and had fever 38-39 C. What was alert, this was illness without sore throat or runny nose as usual when you catch cold. This lasted for 2 days with extrema fatigue I could hardly even stand from the bad and than gone without a sign.
5 days later my wife experienced the same symptoms which lasted 5 days fever 38-40 C. No sore throat but with enlarged and painful lymph nodes on the neck.
We had vaccine from flue, also none of our friend didn't catch this “flu” despite we ate at the same table all vacations.
13/04/13 I had diarrhea which lasted 5 days, and very intensive digestive sounds.
18/04/13 I had this illness again. Than time with enlarged lymph nodes on the neck.
*Flu doesn't cause enlarged and painful lymph nodes during 2 month. Other chill illnesses cause sore throat, which we hadn't.
*25/04/13 Began my intensive systematic night sweating, which I had never before. I waked up in a circles of wet spot on the bad. Also my wife, but little less. She was not aware at that time about risks so I exclude psychological cause. This lasted for 1.5 month.
My wife's seborrhea became worse.
26/04/13 My wife had tonsillitis which lasted about 2.5 weeks.
*01-20/05/13 We experienced extreme tiredness and my wife who is usually early bird could sleep for 12-14 hours. We were extremely tired during day, fell asleep just touch the bad. Needed rest during the day. However rest didn't helped remove tiredness.
05/05/13 I had papilloma on my tongue.
*07/05/2013 My scratch on the face begins fester but my body didn't reacted there was no inflammation, skin around the wound was completely white. It even began to close, but the pus was under the skin. This lasted for a week. Iodine didn't helped.
About a month my wife had a dry cough.
*10/05/13 My wife had a rash on her legs and hands which looked like flat red vessels (stars) under the skin. How often did people develop rash during life time?
1 in a year, every 3, 5 years?
No, never, from my childhood until my 33 years. Most people never have rash. This together with other symptoms and my sexual contact is something very specific. I also don't see people who are afraid of HIV develop rash often on forums. Usually the “symptom” is flu with 37.5 C temperature. But not rash, 39 C fever without sore throat, swollen lymph nodes, night sweets.
15/05/13 I had herpes Herpes on the lip.
TESTS
As soon as we come back from the trip during which I didn't want to ruin the careless days of my wife we did test.
15/05/13
(1.5 month 6 weeks after exposure)
-----------------------------------------------
me and wife:
HBC, HCV, recent CMV, EBV, HPV, HIV IFA -
HIV test 4th generation Abbot.
my wife's:
CD4 640 48.5%, very low!
CD8 430 32.4%
ratio 1.5
monocytes 0.35 7%
activated cd3+hla-dr+ 9.5% - when 10 is cut off, rise is typical for early HIV infection, later it rises above normal range, and immunity partly recovers
my
CD4 730 37.9% low! Now I have 1180 and ratio of 2.23
CD8 470 24.5%
ratio 1.55
monocites 0.76 10% (both above normal range) what is called mononucleosis syndrome
activated cd3+hla-dr+ 9.5% - when 10 is cut off
10/06/13
(2 month 9 weeks after exposure)
---------------------------------------------
my wife HIV IFA -
me HIV IFA -, HIV RNA PCR <40
14/07/2013
(3 month ~14 weeks after exposure)
my wife HIV IFA -
23/07/13
--------------------------------------
my wife's:
CD4 770 39.4%, (recovered)
CD8 430 38.2% ( above normal range, immune response)
ratio 1.03
activated cd3+hla-dr+ 13.6% - above normal range what is typical for early HIV infection.
I would exchange everything to be wrong in my statements.
But I think I will be one of those few people, who test false negative after 3 month (16 weeks).
Those who thought they had protected sex and didn't notice condom break.
I'm writing this because I'm sure I have HIV, from my and my wife's symptoms.
I familiar ways of HIV transmission and about statement that symptoms which usually means nothing. But I have studied a lot of literature and also logic was my favorite subject at university. So I can make a conclusions.
None of the symptoms are specific to HIV and from none of this symptoms you can say you are negative or positive, this is only half of the truth. You can't say about negative status because some people don't have symptoms. But you can reliably say if someone had ARS if you consider time, quantity and sequence of symptoms, exclude other illnesses with tests (mono etc like in my case). So there not so much left. Not in all cases, but some of them are obvious.
My case is different from everything I read on other sites. Not like swollen lymph nodes after 3 month of exposure.
But just classic:
ARS symptoms,
than symptoms of weakened immunity approved by tests
and than recovery also approved by tests.
The same with my wife.
Everything except positive test at 3 month mark.
But I'm sure they will be on this week.
03/31/2013 I had sex with CSW in Ukraine. Girl changed a condom with hand which contained her secretion. I used chlorhexidine to disinfect penis before she put condom on so protective layer of the skin was damaged. Chlorhexidine is efective against STD but damages skin so makes it more vulnerable for HIV.
We had vaginal sex before and after this. I didn't notice condom break, but I didn't cheeked it. When I extracted penis the end of condom hanged so I can't say was it intact or just I didn't noticed it. It is possible it could bread and when I extracted it, the condom slip so the hole was not visible. I didn't noticed enough sperm inside as usual so this was also suspicious. She was new to this businesses so I'm not sure if she used proper lube, and infected not so long so her viral load was high.
04/04/2013 I had sex with another CSW, which behaved very strange. In her form she sad she reject those who are under 30 years, later she said 35 (don't want to put young people at risk?). She was ironic about, my remark about heart health and walks in the fresh air. She also interested with my age and how old was my grand-grandmother to know how long I could live.
We didn't change the condom, but I had damaged skin on the hand, and her liquids from the condom contacted her hand during blow-job and after that she held me with the same hand at the place where skin was damaged. It lasted about a 30 min. Also she wiped my penis with the same napkin she removed condom.
After both cases I washed hands and penis with Sterillium which claims to disinfect HCV,HBV and HIV. And had a shower.
After second occasion I found a grume on my hand, so it could contact my damaged skin. It was only minor scratch of the surface layer without blood. But this makes me suspect she was at stage before or during periods.
Symptoms
During night from 04/05/2013 - 04/06/2013 we had sauna with friends, and than I had unprotected sex with my wife.
And the same night my symptoms appeared. (6 days and 1 day after exposures).
I suppose extreme cold and hot rapid temperature changes could affect HIV progression. I jumped from sauna in cold water.
I woke up at night from chill. I was all sweat and had fever 38-39 C. What was alert, this was illness without sore throat or runny nose as usual when you catch cold. This lasted for 2 days with extrema fatigue I could hardly even stand from the bad and than gone without a sign.
5 days later my wife experienced the same symptoms which lasted 5 days fever 38-40 C. No sore throat but with enlarged and painful lymph nodes on the neck.
We had vaccine from flue, also none of our friend didn't catch this “flu” despite we ate at the same table all vacations.
13/04/13 I had diarrhea which lasted 5 days, and very intensive digestive sounds.
18/04/13 I had this illness again. Than time with enlarged lymph nodes on the neck.
*Flu doesn't cause enlarged and painful lymph nodes during 2 month. Other chill illnesses cause sore throat, which we hadn't.
*25/04/13 Began my intensive systematic night sweating, which I had never before. I waked up in a circles of wet spot on the bad. Also my wife, but little less. She was not aware at that time about risks so I exclude psychological cause. This lasted for 1.5 month.
My wife's seborrhea became worse.
26/04/13 My wife had tonsillitis which lasted about 2.5 weeks.
*01-20/05/13 We experienced extreme tiredness and my wife who is usually early bird could sleep for 12-14 hours. We were extremely tired during day, fell asleep just touch the bad. Needed rest during the day. However rest didn't helped remove tiredness.
05/05/13 I had papilloma on my tongue.
*07/05/2013 My scratch on the face begins fester but my body didn't reacted there was no inflammation, skin around the wound was completely white. It even began to close, but the pus was under the skin. This lasted for a week. Iodine didn't helped.
About a month my wife had a dry cough.
*10/05/13 My wife had a rash on her legs and hands which looked like flat red vessels (stars) under the skin. How often did people develop rash during life time?
1 in a year, every 3, 5 years?
No, never, from my childhood until my 33 years. Most people never have rash. This together with other symptoms and my sexual contact is something very specific. I also don't see people who are afraid of HIV develop rash often on forums. Usually the “symptom” is flu with 37.5 C temperature. But not rash, 39 C fever without sore throat, swollen lymph nodes, night sweets.
15/05/13 I had herpes Herpes on the lip.
TESTS
As soon as we come back from the trip during which I didn't want to ruin the careless days of my wife we did test.
15/05/13
(1.5 month 6 weeks after exposure)
-----------------------------------------------
me and wife:
HBC, HCV, recent CMV, EBV, HPV, HIV IFA -
HIV test 4th generation Abbot.
my wife's:
CD4 640 48.5%, very low!
CD8 430 32.4%
ratio 1.5
monocytes 0.35 7%
activated cd3+hla-dr+ 9.5% - when 10 is cut off, rise is typical for early HIV infection, later it rises above normal range, and immunity partly recovers
my
CD4 730 37.9% low! Now I have 1180 and ratio of 2.23
CD8 470 24.5%
ratio 1.55
monocites 0.76 10% (both above normal range) what is called mononucleosis syndrome
activated cd3+hla-dr+ 9.5% - when 10 is cut off
10/06/13
(2 month 9 weeks after exposure)
---------------------------------------------
my wife HIV IFA -
me HIV IFA -, HIV RNA PCR <40
14/07/2013
(3 month ~14 weeks after exposure)
my wife HIV IFA -
23/07/13
--------------------------------------
my wife's:
CD4 770 39.4%, (recovered)
CD8 430 38.2% ( above normal range, immune response)
ratio 1.03
activated cd3+hla-dr+ 13.6% - above normal range what is typical for early HIV infection.
My goodness, you could have saved yourself a lot of writing. For one, it doesn't look like you've ever even HAD a risk for HIV (which would be unprotected vaginal or anal sex only).
Secondly, a negative test at 3 months is conclusive, you do NOT need anymore testing. If you cannot accept this, it's time to get some professional help.
You do NOT have HIV.
Secondly, a negative test at 3 months is conclusive, you do NOT need anymore testing. If you cannot accept this, it's time to get some professional help.
You do NOT have HIV.
29/07/13
3 month (17 weeks after second exposure, 4 month after first)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
We did HIV-1 RNA tests in private clinic in Germany (in bill there was: Nucleasauren, Isolierugn HIV1RNA, Nucleasauren, enzymatische Spaltung je Enzym HIV1RNA, RNA, Enzymatische Transkription RT von HIV1RNA u. QS, Nukleinsaren, Fragmentidentifizerung je Sonde Hybridisierungen untersch, Sonden von HIV1RNA u. QS).
Results HIV1 RNA <20
I didn't see another HIV related results mentioned in the bill so don't know should they be presented.
We also did large blood examination for lipids, lymphocytes, ALS, AST, hepatitis, syphilis, CMV and etc.
The doctor ensured we used most sensitive and modern tests and we don't have HIV, we don't need further examination.
* I asked If we did any antibody test and he said - “yes, and it is negative in both cases”.
*However. When I received results on the paper there was no any HIV antibody result mentioned. Also among all bills there was no bill for the antibody test either. The receptionist contacted doctor and he said that he received results by the phone and they are not there currently because all tests except HIV antibody are prepared in their own laboratory but antibody tests are prepared in another one according to the rules of Germany. I asked If we could receive scan of the results on email and doctor confirmed
.
I was more happier than person who just won 10000000 $. I wrote email to the clinic to remind about my results, doctor was on business trip than they had some local holidays...
From the third time I received scan of print from this private clinic with all same tests but with one line more which said:
* EIA HIV1/2 tests negative in my case and DOUBTFUL for my wife...
Could this mean her anybodies just show up?
This is completely not what I was expected. Negative is far different from doubtful. I also expected results from the clinic which did the tests.
I don't know how to understand this consequence together. I didn't received bill and results for EIA (ELISA) testing when I was in Germany. So I can only suppose they do this for free. Even for the foreigners?
As I understand EIA test could not be indeterminate with no reason. I asked the doctor about wife's results. Did this was because of p24 antigen reaction, or the level of the antibodies detected. But the doctor said that this result “should not have left the laboratory because it was a preliminary result which was then cleared by the end result”.
He didn't say what kind of confirmatory result they used, what reacted in EIA test. He didn't answered about 3% of people who test positive only after 6 month. It looks like he avoids discussing details.
He ensures us that we don't have HIV, and we don't need more tests.
Now I will wait and do the final testing after 6 month which I'm afraid will be positive for both of us.
So technically we both have negative results 3 month (13-17) weeks after exposure. IFA for my wife and ELISA. We also did 3 PCR tests. And were ensured by th doctor we don't have HIV. If I didn't persist to receive results I wouldn't do the test 6 month after exposure and didn't find out our HIV status.
We don't suffer from any disease that could cause delayed seroconvertion. Actually after 1.5 month all symptoms disappeared. Only slightly enlarged and sensitive by touch lymph nodes which lasted 2.5 month and my wife's rash which lasted for 2 month.
I completely exclude possibility my wife could cheat on me during last test and my next test. I know she wouldn't. Most of that time we traveled and was together. I also know all her calls and where she is at certain time.
I understand, you don't discuss symptoms, and this is right in almost all cases. Because people could make logical mistake and conclude that the lack of symptoms means they don't have HIV. But I haven't seen nobody who had all such symptoms and tested negative. Our symptoms yell!
Our body reacted very soon ~ after 6 days, however symptoms (my wife's rush lasted until 10th of July for 2 month) I think we are not later seroconverters. In most cases later seroconvertion is person's constitutional peculiarity. But this is so unlikely 2 persons not relatives have similar immunity system. Taking in an account quantitative PCR RNA didn't reacted I assume we could have some HIV strains like E and O which takes more time to produce enough typical antibodies. Also indeterminate ELISA result, which received my wife. Why none of other 20 tests didn't show indeterminate HBV or syphilis but exactly what I suspect. Doctor assured he checked her results, but if it was WB, no wonder it didn't reacted yet. It is also not unusual for people stay undetectable up for 2 years without medication.
Some strains never are detected by PCR RNA tests.
I would like to ask, are there some strains, which are not detected by modern tests, so we will have problems by controlling viral load?
2 persons, who were negative at 3 month and positive at 6 it is very large number.
[img]http://www.metapathogen.com/IMG/HIV-1-markers-page.png[/img]
This scheme shows than quantity of antibodies after 12 weeks and after 24 is twice different.
I have all required papers of test results.
They are also documented in clinic in Germany.
I can give the name of the clinic, doctor and all documents by request.
Next week I'll receive my results and will write to doctor.
As I'm sure they will be positive, I would like to know if this case will be interesting for researchers.
I never thought those expose are HIV risky, all sites claim HIV is hard to transmit, impossible if you use condoms. Or at least you notice if it break. This proves – not always. I was more concerned about second situation, because of blood, scratch on hand and behavior of CSW, but now I think match with ARS symptoms after 6 days after contact are also possible.
**********************************
On this week I'll receive my test result. Now I'm almost calm, I don't have more tears to cry and don't have more fear. I don't know how I'll accept them. I cried almost everyday, felt like I need to run somewhere or shake, felt deep anger and sorrow. But now I'm just empty. First days I couldn't think of anything but suicide, but I couldn't leave my wife, also after I read that HIV people may have children, this gave me hope and I decided to save my life. I asked for help of different mental specialists because in my mind I understand what is wrong but afraid I couldn't control my emotions and could commit suicide. Conversations didn't helped, but antidepressants worked.
I'm afraid this emotions mow will follow me all my life.
I love my wife more than everything in my life. And I always was. She is best person in the world and doesn't deserve this. If I could I would exchange everything for her health. I always thought that our great love should be handed down to our children to leave a trace in the world.
3 month (17 weeks after second exposure, 4 month after first)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
We did HIV-1 RNA tests in private clinic in Germany (in bill there was: Nucleasauren, Isolierugn HIV1RNA, Nucleasauren, enzymatische Spaltung je Enzym HIV1RNA, RNA, Enzymatische Transkription RT von HIV1RNA u. QS, Nukleinsaren, Fragmentidentifizerung je Sonde Hybridisierungen untersch, Sonden von HIV1RNA u. QS).
Results HIV1 RNA <20
I didn't see another HIV related results mentioned in the bill so don't know should they be presented.
We also did large blood examination for lipids, lymphocytes, ALS, AST, hepatitis, syphilis, CMV and etc.
The doctor ensured we used most sensitive and modern tests and we don't have HIV, we don't need further examination.
* I asked If we did any antibody test and he said - “yes, and it is negative in both cases”.
*However. When I received results on the paper there was no any HIV antibody result mentioned. Also among all bills there was no bill for the antibody test either. The receptionist contacted doctor and he said that he received results by the phone and they are not there currently because all tests except HIV antibody are prepared in their own laboratory but antibody tests are prepared in another one according to the rules of Germany. I asked If we could receive scan of the results on email and doctor confirmed
.
I was more happier than person who just won 10000000 $. I wrote email to the clinic to remind about my results, doctor was on business trip than they had some local holidays...
From the third time I received scan of print from this private clinic with all same tests but with one line more which said:
* EIA HIV1/2 tests negative in my case and DOUBTFUL for my wife...
Could this mean her anybodies just show up?
This is completely not what I was expected. Negative is far different from doubtful. I also expected results from the clinic which did the tests.
I don't know how to understand this consequence together. I didn't received bill and results for EIA (ELISA) testing when I was in Germany. So I can only suppose they do this for free. Even for the foreigners?
As I understand EIA test could not be indeterminate with no reason. I asked the doctor about wife's results. Did this was because of p24 antigen reaction, or the level of the antibodies detected. But the doctor said that this result “should not have left the laboratory because it was a preliminary result which was then cleared by the end result”.
He didn't say what kind of confirmatory result they used, what reacted in EIA test. He didn't answered about 3% of people who test positive only after 6 month. It looks like he avoids discussing details.
He ensures us that we don't have HIV, and we don't need more tests.
Now I will wait and do the final testing after 6 month which I'm afraid will be positive for both of us.
So technically we both have negative results 3 month (13-17) weeks after exposure. IFA for my wife and ELISA. We also did 3 PCR tests. And were ensured by th doctor we don't have HIV. If I didn't persist to receive results I wouldn't do the test 6 month after exposure and didn't find out our HIV status.
We don't suffer from any disease that could cause delayed seroconvertion. Actually after 1.5 month all symptoms disappeared. Only slightly enlarged and sensitive by touch lymph nodes which lasted 2.5 month and my wife's rash which lasted for 2 month.
I completely exclude possibility my wife could cheat on me during last test and my next test. I know she wouldn't. Most of that time we traveled and was together. I also know all her calls and where she is at certain time.
I understand, you don't discuss symptoms, and this is right in almost all cases. Because people could make logical mistake and conclude that the lack of symptoms means they don't have HIV. But I haven't seen nobody who had all such symptoms and tested negative. Our symptoms yell!
Our body reacted very soon ~ after 6 days, however symptoms (my wife's rush lasted until 10th of July for 2 month) I think we are not later seroconverters. In most cases later seroconvertion is person's constitutional peculiarity. But this is so unlikely 2 persons not relatives have similar immunity system. Taking in an account quantitative PCR RNA didn't reacted I assume we could have some HIV strains like E and O which takes more time to produce enough typical antibodies. Also indeterminate ELISA result, which received my wife. Why none of other 20 tests didn't show indeterminate HBV or syphilis but exactly what I suspect. Doctor assured he checked her results, but if it was WB, no wonder it didn't reacted yet. It is also not unusual for people stay undetectable up for 2 years without medication.
Some strains never are detected by PCR RNA tests.
I would like to ask, are there some strains, which are not detected by modern tests, so we will have problems by controlling viral load?
2 persons, who were negative at 3 month and positive at 6 it is very large number.
[img]http://www.metapathogen.com/IMG/HIV-1-markers-page.png[/img]
This scheme shows than quantity of antibodies after 12 weeks and after 24 is twice different.
I have all required papers of test results.
They are also documented in clinic in Germany.
I can give the name of the clinic, doctor and all documents by request.
Next week I'll receive my results and will write to doctor.
As I'm sure they will be positive, I would like to know if this case will be interesting for researchers.
I never thought those expose are HIV risky, all sites claim HIV is hard to transmit, impossible if you use condoms. Or at least you notice if it break. This proves – not always. I was more concerned about second situation, because of blood, scratch on hand and behavior of CSW, but now I think match with ARS symptoms after 6 days after contact are also possible.
**********************************
On this week I'll receive my test result. Now I'm almost calm, I don't have more tears to cry and don't have more fear. I don't know how I'll accept them. I cried almost everyday, felt like I need to run somewhere or shake, felt deep anger and sorrow. But now I'm just empty. First days I couldn't think of anything but suicide, but I couldn't leave my wife, also after I read that HIV people may have children, this gave me hope and I decided to save my life. I asked for help of different mental specialists because in my mind I understand what is wrong but afraid I couldn't control my emotions and could commit suicide. Conversations didn't helped, but antidepressants worked.
I'm afraid this emotions mow will follow me all my life.
I love my wife more than everything in my life. And I always was. She is best person in the world and doesn't deserve this. If I could I would exchange everything for her health. I always thought that our great love should be handed down to our children to leave a trace in the world.
1 Comments
Hey, I hope you are well... Did you find out if you are negative???
Have an Answer?
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