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Acute HIV, Testing Window and HIV effects on CBC
Hi,
I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for providing this service. I’m a 30 year old drug-free heterosexual male. 6 weeks ago I began showing ARS like symptoms. Night sweats, fever, and oral ulcers (very large canker sores, thrush, inflamed papules on the tip of my tongue, and recurring geographic tongue). After 3 weeks my night sweats mostly disappeared, as did the canker sores, and thrush, but the inflamed papules and geographic tongue persisted and fatigue, unexplained bruising, general weakness and occasional heart palpitations set in. Also, five weeks after symptoms began I began noticing recurring blood red spots (dark red/purple) that come and go on the inside of my mouth cheeks. I’ve never had more than 3 at once. They’re 1mm or less in diameter and can appear suddenly within an hour and usually fade and disappear within a day or two.
I was tested for Hep A,B,C, HIV and other STDS. All negative. My most recent HIV test, a rapid antibody test, was taken 33 days (4.5 weeks) after symptoms began (a little over 5 weeks after my most recent unprotected sexual exposure). The result of the 4.5 week HIV test was negative.
Finally I had a CBC about 3 weeks after symptoms began and again about 5 weeks after symptoms began. The first CBC (after 3 weeks of symptoms) came back with no irregularities. The second CBC (after 5 weeks of symptoms) showed:
LOW Counts:
LKCS (White blood count) of 4.1 (normal=4.8-10.8)
ERCS (Red blood count) of 4.63 (normal=4.7-6.1)
Lymphocyte of 1.4 (normal 1.5-4.0)
High Counts:
MPV of 10.5 (normal=7.4-10.3)
Low end of normal counts:
Neutrophyl of 2.3 (normal 2.0-7.5)
My risks for HIV were about 5 incidents of unprotected vaginal sex with 4 women (none of whom are known to have HIV), over the last 4 months (the most recent being just 5 days prior to falling ill with symptoms).
I'm terrified with fear about HIV.
1. How reliable (trustworthy) is my most recent test (after 4.5 weeks of symptoms)?
2. My symptoms have persisted for an unusually long time for ARS. Do oral symptoms of Acute HIV have a tendency to persist longer than other symptoms?
3. Do CBC irregularities caused by Acute HIV tend to show up during the initial weeks of symptoms, or do they generally appear later, in the weeks following the disappearance of symptoms?
4. Are my CBC irregularities and symptoms atypical for HIV? How concerned should I be about HIV at this point?
I greatly appreciate any insight you can share with me.
I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for providing this service. I’m a 30 year old drug-free heterosexual male. 6 weeks ago I began showing ARS like symptoms. Night sweats, fever, and oral ulcers (very large canker sores, thrush, inflamed papules on the tip of my tongue, and recurring geographic tongue). After 3 weeks my night sweats mostly disappeared, as did the canker sores, and thrush, but the inflamed papules and geographic tongue persisted and fatigue, unexplained bruising, general weakness and occasional heart palpitations set in. Also, five weeks after symptoms began I began noticing recurring blood red spots (dark red/purple) that come and go on the inside of my mouth cheeks. I’ve never had more than 3 at once. They’re 1mm or less in diameter and can appear suddenly within an hour and usually fade and disappear within a day or two.
I was tested for Hep A,B,C, HIV and other STDS. All negative. My most recent HIV test, a rapid antibody test, was taken 33 days (4.5 weeks) after symptoms began (a little over 5 weeks after my most recent unprotected sexual exposure). The result of the 4.5 week HIV test was negative.
Finally I had a CBC about 3 weeks after symptoms began and again about 5 weeks after symptoms began. The first CBC (after 3 weeks of symptoms) came back with no irregularities. The second CBC (after 5 weeks of symptoms) showed:
LOW Counts:
LKCS (White blood count) of 4.1 (normal=4.8-10.8)
ERCS (Red blood count) of 4.63 (normal=4.7-6.1)
Lymphocyte of 1.4 (normal 1.5-4.0)
High Counts:
MPV of 10.5 (normal=7.4-10.3)
Low end of normal counts:
Neutrophyl of 2.3 (normal 2.0-7.5)
My risks for HIV were about 5 incidents of unprotected vaginal sex with 4 women (none of whom are known to have HIV), over the last 4 months (the most recent being just 5 days prior to falling ill with symptoms).
I'm terrified with fear about HIV.
1. How reliable (trustworthy) is my most recent test (after 4.5 weeks of symptoms)?
2. My symptoms have persisted for an unusually long time for ARS. Do oral symptoms of Acute HIV have a tendency to persist longer than other symptoms?
3. Do CBC irregularities caused by Acute HIV tend to show up during the initial weeks of symptoms, or do they generally appear later, in the weeks following the disappearance of symptoms?
4. Are my CBC irregularities and symptoms atypical for HIV? How concerned should I be about HIV at this point?
I greatly appreciate any insight you can share with me.
To be more clear about my exposures
#1. about 4 weeks before first symptoms (8 weeks before last HIV - test):
Single incident of UNprotected vaginal sex. caught some form of UTI, cured with antibiotics
#2: about 2 weeks before first symptoms (6 weeks before last HIV - test):
Two incidents of PROtected vaginal sex.
#3: exactly 5 days before first symptoms (5 weeks before last HIV - test):
Single incident of UNprotected vaginal sex
^ So I've been with three different women, 4 incidents, two of which were protected.
#1. about 4 weeks before first symptoms (8 weeks before last HIV - test):
Single incident of UNprotected vaginal sex. caught some form of UTI, cured with antibiotics
#2: about 2 weeks before first symptoms (6 weeks before last HIV - test):
Two incidents of PROtected vaginal sex.
#3: exactly 5 days before first symptoms (5 weeks before last HIV - test):
Single incident of UNprotected vaginal sex
^ So I've been with three different women, 4 incidents, two of which were protected.
My exposures: I'm a heterosexual man, I've had 5 incidents of unprotected vaginal only sex with 4 women (none of whom are known to have HIV) in the last 4 months. The most recent was just 5 days before I first started having symptoms.
Symptoms came on all at once. Swollen Lymph nodes in the groin and neck, mild fever, night sweats (all for about three weeks). Oral symptoms: thrush and painful inflamed tip of tongue, 2 large canker sores on lips, all appeared just 2 days after symptoms began. Lingering oral symptoms, not as bad, but still visible, persist up till the present. Later symptoms (after 3 weeks), include general feeling of fatigue, recurring tingling/burning feeling in lungs, heart palpitations and small round blood blisters on the insides of my cheeks-not many and they fade away and heal after a day or two.
Please let me know what you think of these symptoms and risks. I live in a province with a very low incidence of HIV. The public health nurse told me that all the new infections in the last couple of years here have been men who have sex with men. But I've had a lot of classic Acute HIV symptoms and I'm still very sick. What do you think about getting tested for HIV again tomorrow? It will have been 6 full weeks after symptoms started.
Symptoms came on all at once. Swollen Lymph nodes in the groin and neck, mild fever, night sweats (all for about three weeks). Oral symptoms: thrush and painful inflamed tip of tongue, 2 large canker sores on lips, all appeared just 2 days after symptoms began. Lingering oral symptoms, not as bad, but still visible, persist up till the present. Later symptoms (after 3 weeks), include general feeling of fatigue, recurring tingling/burning feeling in lungs, heart palpitations and small round blood blisters on the insides of my cheeks-not many and they fade away and heal after a day or two.
Please let me know what you think of these symptoms and risks. I live in a province with a very low incidence of HIV. The public health nurse told me that all the new infections in the last couple of years here have been men who have sex with men. But I've had a lot of classic Acute HIV symptoms and I'm still very sick. What do you think about getting tested for HIV again tomorrow? It will have been 6 full weeks after symptoms started.
Mostly the timing of your symptoms and the absence of a rash. How long after your "exposure" did your "symptoms" begin? How high was your fever? And, btw, what was your exposure to begin with? Most people who come here never had an exposure to begin with.
Thank you so much for your reply. I want to answer your question and ask one more of my own. I did have doctors tell me that my tongue looked like thrush, and others tell me that it looked like geographic tongue. So its not just speculation on my part. Personally I think my tongue looks more like scarlet fever.
As for my symptoms, can you tell me what stands out about mine that lead you to say that they are "not anything even remotely consistent with HIV"? I dont need a book-long answer, just a couple of jot notes of what's inconsistent about my case. That would be extremely helpful for reducing my anxiety.
I'm thinking about getting another CBC and another 3rd generation elisa HIV test tomorrow (6 full weeks after symptoms began). Would you advise me to proceed with that plan? Thank you a thousand times for talking with me about this. I'm going from optimism to despair, hope to hopelessness. You talking to me about this is like finding a much needed friend in the wilderness. Thanks again
As for my symptoms, can you tell me what stands out about mine that lead you to say that they are "not anything even remotely consistent with HIV"? I dont need a book-long answer, just a couple of jot notes of what's inconsistent about my case. That would be extremely helpful for reducing my anxiety.
I'm thinking about getting another CBC and another 3rd generation elisa HIV test tomorrow (6 full weeks after symptoms began). Would you advise me to proceed with that plan? Thank you a thousand times for talking with me about this. I'm going from optimism to despair, hope to hopelessness. You talking to me about this is like finding a much needed friend in the wilderness. Thanks again
Ok, you already know you had risks and need to be tested. You can obtain a conclusive result at 3 months post your LAST exposure. Your test result at 4.5 weeks is a good sign, but not yet conclusive. ANY negative result along the way is encouraging.
CBC results have NO bearing on HIV status. Most newly infected people will have perfectly normal CBC results. It isn't until the disease has progressed where there may be some irregularities. Your CBC results were not worrisome anyway, fluctuation is normal and even a simple garden variety cold or viral infection will be seen in a CBC.
To your questions:
1. How reliable (trustworthy) is my most recent test (after 4.5 weeks of symptoms)?
>See above. It's good, but not conclusive.
2. My symptoms have persisted for an unusually long time for ARS. Do oral symptoms of Acute HIV have a tendency to persist longer than other symptoms?
>"Symptoms" mean absolutely NOTHING when gauging an HIV risk. Some newly infected people never have one symptom and most people who THINK they are experiencing ARS go on to test negative. Symptoms are way too inconsistent, plus yours are not anything even remotely consistent with HIV. Symptoms will never be an indication of status, only testing can do it.
You have used a lot of fancy terms, have you been officially diagnosed with geographic tongue and the other conditions you mention? Or are you coming to these conclusions based on your own research online? I'd bet money it is the latter, which you simplay cannot do. You cannot diagnose yourself online.
3. Do CBC irregularities caused by Acute HIV tend to show up during the initial weeks of symptoms, or do they generally appear later, in the weeks following the disappearance of symptoms?
>No, usually a CBC during the initial stages of infection is within normal limits, with an exception being perhaps an elevated WBC count. It isn't until later in the disease process where there will be abnormalities in a CBC and other non-HIV blood tests. You can NEVER gauge your risk based on anything but an HIV test. TOO many things in the universe can cause abnormal lab results, including high levels of anxiety.
4. Are my CBC irregularities and symptoms atypical for HIV? How concerned should I be about HIV at this point?
>See above answers. they mean NOTHING and aren't even concerning from a medical standpoint. Continue to work with your doctor if you are concerned.
LASTLY, AND AGAIN....you would do yourself a favor in stopping this tail chasing you have started. You can obtain your conclusive result at 3 months. A negative at 8 weeks would be VERY VERY encouraging, so if your anxiety remains high, test at 8 weeks for some peace of mind.
Despite your risks, you actually have a better chance of NOT being infected versus infected.
CBC results have NO bearing on HIV status. Most newly infected people will have perfectly normal CBC results. It isn't until the disease has progressed where there may be some irregularities. Your CBC results were not worrisome anyway, fluctuation is normal and even a simple garden variety cold or viral infection will be seen in a CBC.
To your questions:
1. How reliable (trustworthy) is my most recent test (after 4.5 weeks of symptoms)?
>See above. It's good, but not conclusive.
2. My symptoms have persisted for an unusually long time for ARS. Do oral symptoms of Acute HIV have a tendency to persist longer than other symptoms?
>"Symptoms" mean absolutely NOTHING when gauging an HIV risk. Some newly infected people never have one symptom and most people who THINK they are experiencing ARS go on to test negative. Symptoms are way too inconsistent, plus yours are not anything even remotely consistent with HIV. Symptoms will never be an indication of status, only testing can do it.
You have used a lot of fancy terms, have you been officially diagnosed with geographic tongue and the other conditions you mention? Or are you coming to these conclusions based on your own research online? I'd bet money it is the latter, which you simplay cannot do. You cannot diagnose yourself online.
3. Do CBC irregularities caused by Acute HIV tend to show up during the initial weeks of symptoms, or do they generally appear later, in the weeks following the disappearance of symptoms?
>No, usually a CBC during the initial stages of infection is within normal limits, with an exception being perhaps an elevated WBC count. It isn't until later in the disease process where there will be abnormalities in a CBC and other non-HIV blood tests. You can NEVER gauge your risk based on anything but an HIV test. TOO many things in the universe can cause abnormal lab results, including high levels of anxiety.
4. Are my CBC irregularities and symptoms atypical for HIV? How concerned should I be about HIV at this point?
>See above answers. they mean NOTHING and aren't even concerning from a medical standpoint. Continue to work with your doctor if you are concerned.
LASTLY, AND AGAIN....you would do yourself a favor in stopping this tail chasing you have started. You can obtain your conclusive result at 3 months. A negative at 8 weeks would be VERY VERY encouraging, so if your anxiety remains high, test at 8 weeks for some peace of mind.
Despite your risks, you actually have a better chance of NOT being infected versus infected.
borninDXB,
I really appreciate your response. Can you, or anyone else, answer me this: if CBC is effected by Acute HIV, when is that effect most pronounced? During the initial onset of symptoms, or during the weeks thereafter?
I'd like to know because its one more clue as to my HIV status. I'll be retesting again this week. I understand that most hiv experts regard a 8 week 3rd generation elisa test to be conclusive. I'll test again at 3 months. But right now I need to be able to dismiss HIV, so I can focus on whatever else might be causing this sickness and worsening CBC results.
Many heartfelt thanks!
I really appreciate your response. Can you, or anyone else, answer me this: if CBC is effected by Acute HIV, when is that effect most pronounced? During the initial onset of symptoms, or during the weeks thereafter?
I'd like to know because its one more clue as to my HIV status. I'll be retesting again this week. I understand that most hiv experts regard a 8 week 3rd generation elisa test to be conclusive. I'll test again at 3 months. But right now I need to be able to dismiss HIV, so I can focus on whatever else might be causing this sickness and worsening CBC results.
Many heartfelt thanks!
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