Cumulative Risky Behaviors - French Kissing

[abroad1984]

Hello,
I am a heterosexual male. About 2 years ago I went through a phase of experimenting with my sexuality. Just to have a total count of my risk or possibility I could have gotten something my entire sexual history is as follows.

Sex with three people. 2 long term partners ( virgins before-hand) + one 1 month partner. All with condoms. Had no risk factors. The One Month Partner had tested negative for HIV/Other STDS 2 months before and 1 year after. Also, happens to be a successful professor so am somewhat willing to accept their statements. Particuarly because they gave dates.

These people I am not as worried about. I am mostly worried about the fact that in my life I have french kissed a total of 12 gay men during my experimental phase. 8 of whom were anonymous and had no knowledge of their past risk factors.

In two years+ since kissing and being abstinent I have not had any STDs that I am aware of. I have had a case of pityriasis rosea and some fillings and other things several months after any kissing took place.

I am INTENSELY anxious and nervous I could have gotten HIV from kissing and am now decided that to atone for what I have done I must become abstinent for the rest of my life. I have had long term panic problems for the past 6 months and most likely require counseling of some sort.

[freak_2007]

French kissing does not pose a risk for HIV infection. You are not at risk and you can rest easy about it. If this doesn't allay your fears, u can go have a test anytime and anyone here can guarantee it would be negative based on what u mention your exposures were.

U don't get HIV from protected sex and french kissing.

Good luck and God bless

[peekawho]

You cannot contract HIV from kissing.  Your encounters were protected.

Your post has the usual alarm bells contained within.  "I am intensely anxious and nervous".  "I have decided I must atone for what I have done".  "I must become abstinent for the rest of my life".  "I have long term panic problems".

You do indeed need counseling.  You had no risk for contracting HIV, and if you are truthful about your encounters, it is not possible to have HIV, regardless of piyriasis rosea or any other illness or condtion you've had since then.

How sad that you are dooming yourself to a life as a nonsexual being.  It is unlikely you will suceed in your plan of life-long abstinence.  How much better it would be for you to get into counseling, and to develop a plan to use condoms for sex.  .  

[freak_2007]

one more thing, just because you are having a few anxious weeks or months about something you don't know, it doesn't mean you need counselling. Such phases are common in everyone's life and we don't have to run to a shrink everytime we encounter such fears. Just read about HIV transmission from CDC website and you will understand your fear is not warranted. You will automatically clear up and get a better perspective about life (like most people here including myself).
You are in the clear.

[abroad1984]

Thank you so much for your support. I think that before I have another relationship it will be best if I am tested for HIV and other STDs.

I will not bore people with my stupidity, however, I am very much afraid and scared that I could be gay. The above things I have done feed into this fear and my internal homophobia. This of course, coincides with my somewhat traditional new england upbringing.

I am being very honest with my exposures and have been feeling quite guilty about how some of those men forced themselves on me. In clubs and my own in ability to tell them to stop when I felt uncomfortable sends me reeling. Causing me to hate myself. Though, this is a normal thing I understand the danger of holding on to such thoughts and work to move past them as painful as they are. Thank you blessing and you have mine.

Peace.

[arsquestion]

Why is everyone so willing to write off the risk of french kissing? It seems like it could definately be a way of getting someones contaminated in your mouth and either absorbed into your blood stream through the mucus membrane of the mouth or throat or somehow come into contact with a small cut in your mouth.

It seems like when I have read some of the sites, including the CDC site, it states that there is some risk to deep kissing.

The reason often given is there are no documented cases, but it seems to me someone that got HIV from deep kissing may not believe it was from deep kissing because they have more risky behavior that they blame it on.

Are we all so sure that this cannot take place? If so, why?

[abroad1984]

My understanding is there are several factors making it at VERY difficult.

* HIV does not survive well in saliva. Several studies confirm this to be the case.

* Studies done on discordanct couples ( HIV - with HIV + ) in which condoms are used have seen very low rates seroconversion ( 8% ) and some longer term studies that have seen almost none at all. I am guessing that many of these couples french kiss. A man who was HIV - and had a HBV+ and HIV + partner only acquired HBV not HIV despite blood contact being necessary for transmission of HIV. http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/PaperFrameSet?OpenForm&refid=2&id=48dde4a73e09a969852568880078c249&c=&newsid=8525697700573E1885256DAF00355495&u=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14513397&ref=/news/content.nsf/SearchResults?openform&Query=Deep%20Kissing&so=date&id=48dde4a73e09a969852568880078c249&Search_Box=All%20DG
HIV contained in Saliva is not very infectious, though you are right it does exist in small quantities.

"omeone that got HIV from deep kissing may not believe it was from deep kissing because they have more risky behavior that they blame it on"

I totally agree with this and that epidemiological studies have this flaw. I wish I could know EXACTLY how many got it via kissing, because I believe there are some who have gotten it this way and did not get it from another higher risk behavior. However, why has there only been one suspected case in 26 years and not two or three even? It seems to be a freak accident when it happens.  My actions make me nervous at times but I feel that I kept myself self and took the actions I needed to keep myself safe under the circumstances of my experimentation.

I will have to satisfied with that I suppose and move on.

[freak_2007]

>>>>Firstly, even if someone's HIV-infected semen or cervico-vaginal fluid enters mouth, sailva is not an efficient carrier of this virus because the contents of saliva basically deactivate the virus. Secondly, mucus membranes of mouth and throat are not hanging there carrying everything that enters mouth into the blood stream. mucus membranes line on the inside of the skin and not exposed to the outside. So for HIV to enter the blood stream from the mouth, there should be an open cut or sore that is fresh enough that they are not clogged and the mucus membrane inside is exposed with an open wound.

The CDC website says there is some risk because theoretically it is possible. But theoretically it is also possible that this forum will be visited only by civilized people  and will remain a decent place for healthy arguements...... But both things don't happen right?
jokes aside, I have read a couple of cases on the internet where the study claims one person was infected by receptive oral sex because he had oral gonorrhea (i guess, anyone can correct me if i am wrong) and therefore had open fresh ulcers in the mouth.

Another person got infected from kissing (the only case i have ever come across). this person and the other girl who was HIV positive, both had very very bad gingivitis and the dude who got infected had the habit of brushing his teeth before sex and therefore starts bleeding in his gums. he went to french kiss the HIV+lady and he got infected as well.

But again the same study comes with a rider, it says the authenticity of these stories has not been ascertained. which means for all the things in this beautiful world, they could be falsified situations.

but i guess CDC just takes into account all the possible scenarios when they instruct people (they are a very reputable and responsible organization) when they say there is some risk.
sorry for the long post
just wanted to share these thoughts. hope that helps

[peekawho]

If you want to continue to worry about it, be my guest.  But its a waste of time, energy, and your life.  

You have a much higher chance of dying today in an accident of some sort, than getting HIV from French kissing.  So stay in the house, in bed.