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Fingering/frontage/potential penetration during menstruation
I want to preface my situation by politely asking you to please read the entire chain of events before dismissing the possibility I was infected. Each situation is uniquely different, and I hope you respect that.
Approximately 13 days ago I received an erotic massage from a sex worker. During this massage I fingered her. Unfortunately I have a terrible, disgusting habit of biting my nails, and I had a few open cuts on my fingers that were inserted inside of her. The cuts were of significant size and were opened due to the physical activity that was taking place during the massage. Normally I would not worry about this, but when I got home I noticed there was dried menstrual blood on my fingers, and it was dried over the cuts.
Also during the massage she slapped my penis against her vagina a few times (frottage). It is also possible that my penis slipped inside of her at some point.
Again, normally I would not worry about this as I know the statistics behind this type of encounter. However about 8 days after the exposure, I developed a fever. I also had a headache and was extremely fatigued. I was basically forced in my bed for 4 days. This is very strange for me as I never get random fevers. The fever is finally starting to subside, although I still have a low-grade. I also developed some strange things in my mouth that are worrysome. The timetable on my illness iis VERY worrysome...
I know you will probably tell me there have been no documented cases of infection based on fingering. However, that doesn't mean it's never happened. It's likely happened a fair bit, but has not been able to be documented based on a # of factors. There is obviously theoretical risk there with menstruation.
My questions for you are: Does a woman's menstruation increase the likelihood of transmission, and if so, by how much? What are the chances Im infected, taking everything into consideration (timeline of illness, exposure, etc). If I had told you that I had unprotected intercourse and she was menstruating, you would agree I would probably be likely infected, correct? Remember, I said it is certainly possible there was penetration for a brief period of time.
Please advise
Approximately 13 days ago I received an erotic massage from a sex worker. During this massage I fingered her. Unfortunately I have a terrible, disgusting habit of biting my nails, and I had a few open cuts on my fingers that were inserted inside of her. The cuts were of significant size and were opened due to the physical activity that was taking place during the massage. Normally I would not worry about this, but when I got home I noticed there was dried menstrual blood on my fingers, and it was dried over the cuts.
Also during the massage she slapped my penis against her vagina a few times (frottage). It is also possible that my penis slipped inside of her at some point.
Again, normally I would not worry about this as I know the statistics behind this type of encounter. However about 8 days after the exposure, I developed a fever. I also had a headache and was extremely fatigued. I was basically forced in my bed for 4 days. This is very strange for me as I never get random fevers. The fever is finally starting to subside, although I still have a low-grade. I also developed some strange things in my mouth that are worrysome. The timetable on my illness iis VERY worrysome...
I know you will probably tell me there have been no documented cases of infection based on fingering. However, that doesn't mean it's never happened. It's likely happened a fair bit, but has not been able to be documented based on a # of factors. There is obviously theoretical risk there with menstruation.
My questions for you are: Does a woman's menstruation increase the likelihood of transmission, and if so, by how much? What are the chances Im infected, taking everything into consideration (timeline of illness, exposure, etc). If I had told you that I had unprotected intercourse and she was menstruating, you would agree I would probably be likely infected, correct? Remember, I said it is certainly possible there was penetration for a brief period of time.
Please advise
You say u were tested 3 weeks before this exposure. Why did you elect to be tested 3 weeks ago? Another incident? If so When did that incident occur and why was te risk? It could take up to 12 weeks for a positive to show up.
Your words...not mine,
"However, I had a legitimate exposure. (Like I said, I was in denial and am nearly certain there was penetration. Not during the frottage but where she was riding me and I had my eyes closed and felt a sensation on my penis. I naively thought it was her body but now Im certain it was her vagina) ".
I don't think so !
You never had penetration .
You wouldn't be "nearly " certain !!
"However, I had a legitimate exposure. (Like I said, I was in denial and am nearly certain there was penetration. Not during the frottage but where she was riding me and I had my eyes closed and felt a sensation on my penis. I naively thought it was her body but now Im certain it was her vagina) ".
I don't think so !
You never had penetration .
You wouldn't be "nearly " certain !!
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I don't know what's going to happen when I test positive. I know I will be in a dark place but Ill try and keep this thread updated with the results. Im sure I won't feel like posting but I will post updates either way.
Regarding the first paragraph you quoted, I must say that I wish he explained himself better. I don't agree with the statement that my claims 'are not supported by the scientific understanding of the process'.
The CDC says that ARS can start at one week after exposure and that fever is present in 80-90% of people with symptoms. So I don't understand what Im missing re: the scientific understanding of the process. Im not saying I know more than the Dr., I would just like it to be explained to me.
The CDC says that ARS can start at one week after exposure and that fever is present in 80-90% of people with symptoms. So I don't understand what Im missing re: the scientific understanding of the process. Im not saying I know more than the Dr., I would just like it to be explained to me.
Edward W Hook, MDB
Sep 02, 2013
Welcome to the Forum. I can tell you with confidence that the exposure that you describe did not put you at risk for HIV and that your symptoms are not due to recently acquired HIV. As I suspect you know, most commercial sex workers do not have HIV and, even if your masseuse did, even with cuts on your fingers, there is no meaningful risk of acquiring HIV from masturbating (fingering) her even if she was menstruating.
As for the possible penetration of your penis during frottage, I doubt it. Had you penetrated her there would be no doubt. Had you penetrated her however, I would remind you that she most probably did not have HIV and even if she did, your risk for infection would be, on average, between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 2000, at most. That she was menstruating again would not change this
As for your symptoms, I am confident that they are not due to recently acquired HIV because of their timing. The symptoms of early HIV do not begin until at least two weeks after exposure, thus your symptoms began too quickly and are most likely due to some other, community acquired viral infection unrelated to your trip to the masseuse.
I hope these comments are helpful. EWH
Sep 02, 2013
Welcome to the Forum. I can tell you with confidence that the exposure that you describe did not put you at risk for HIV and that your symptoms are not due to recently acquired HIV. As I suspect you know, most commercial sex workers do not have HIV and, even if your masseuse did, even with cuts on your fingers, there is no meaningful risk of acquiring HIV from masturbating (fingering) her even if she was menstruating.
As for the possible penetration of your penis during frottage, I doubt it. Had you penetrated her there would be no doubt. Had you penetrated her however, I would remind you that she most probably did not have HIV and even if she did, your risk for infection would be, on average, between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 2000, at most. That she was menstruating again would not change this
As for your symptoms, I am confident that they are not due to recently acquired HIV because of their timing. The symptoms of early HIV do not begin until at least two weeks after exposure, thus your symptoms began too quickly and are most likely due to some other, community acquired viral infection unrelated to your trip to the masseuse.
I hope these comments are helpful. EWH
Edward W Hook, MD
Sep 03, 2013 .
You are correct, I do assume that you are over reacting. I am sorry that you've had a fever for more than five days but nothing that you say in any way changes my assessment or recommendations. Your argumentative statements that your fever could be early onset ARS simply are not supported by the scientific understanding of the process.
Sep 03, 2013 .
You are correct, I do assume that you are over reacting. I am sorry that you've had a fever for more than five days but nothing that you say in any way changes my assessment or recommendations. Your argumentative statements that your fever could be early onset ARS simply are not supported by the scientific understanding of the process.
I have already. I just wanted to post here to get other opinions as well.
I wish I wasn't in denial when I wrote my I initial post. I should have come to grips with the fact that there was penetration and said with certainty in my post. If I did, I think the responses would be much different. It really does look like ARS.
Now I have to go get tested. Dr. Hook said that if the fever was ARS related then the test would be positive at this point. Im terrified, but I have to try and move forward.
I wish I wasn't in denial when I wrote my I initial post. I should have come to grips with the fact that there was penetration and said with certainty in my post. If I did, I think the responses would be much different. It really does look like ARS.
Now I have to go get tested. Dr. Hook said that if the fever was ARS related then the test would be positive at this point. Im terrified, but I have to try and move forward.
But obviously the 9 day fever is the one that truly worries me. Any of the other symptoms wouldn't have even caused me to make a post. It crushes me, but it truly does look like ARS.
Btw, I appreciate the support and posts. I know there is probably alot of 'trolling' that goes on in the forums, so any serious and genuine advice is greatly appreciated. And Im sorry if I come off bitter, Im just very sad at the moment.
Btw, I appreciate the support and posts. I know there is probably alot of 'trolling' that goes on in the forums, so any serious and genuine advice is greatly appreciated. And Im sorry if I come off bitter, Im just very sad at the moment.
I understand people come in here with symptoms all the time. Most of the time they are greatly exaggerating. Almost always the symptoms have nothing to do with ARS, and they usually never even had an exposure.
However, I had a legitimate exposure. (Like I said, I was in denial and am nearly certain there was penetration. Not during the frottage but where she was riding me and I had my eyes closed and felt a sensation on my penis. I naively thought it was her body but now Im certain it was her vagina)
The legitimate exposure coupled with a 9 day fever on the exact timetable of ARS does not look good. If the fever lasted a couple days I would not even worry. However this is just terrifying. Im just glad the medications have come so far and there have been so many advances.
However, I had a legitimate exposure. (Like I said, I was in denial and am nearly certain there was penetration. Not during the frottage but where she was riding me and I had my eyes closed and felt a sensation on my penis. I naively thought it was her body but now Im certain it was her vagina)
The legitimate exposure coupled with a 9 day fever on the exact timetable of ARS does not look good. If the fever lasted a couple days I would not even worry. However this is just terrifying. Im just glad the medications have come so far and there have been so many advances.
Lol@anxiety related. First of all, I had absolutely no anxiety related to this exposure until I got my fever! I didn't even think twice about the incident until about day 4 of my fever where I thought something was wrong.
So that theory doesn't hold too much weight.
So that theory doesn't hold too much weight.
Anxiety related. People come here with all the symptoms in the world and don't have HIV and like you never had an exposure.
It's also curious how everyone just glosses over the fact that Ive had a fever for 9 straight days!! On the exact timetable that ARS would begin...
Then you've never had vaginal sex with anyone before. You would know for a fact if you penetrated anyone lube or no lube. Unless and I say unless you have the smallest penis in the world.
Actually it is completely possible. During the massage I was very very lubed up and my penis is small. It could have easily slipped in without my knowing 100%.
There was a time during the massage where she was straddling me and my penis could have been inserted multiple times. My eyes were closed and I just assumed it wasnt her vaginal, but now I realize she probably put it inside of her at least a few times.
I suppose I was in denial.
You say it's not possible to not know for sure, well I know for a fact that it is. Serious question, have you ever had intercourse with a female? Do we have the exact same penis size? If not, I don't think you are too qualified to be telling me what I can or can't feel with my own body.
There was a time during the massage where she was straddling me and my penis could have been inserted multiple times. My eyes were closed and I just assumed it wasnt her vaginal, but now I realize she probably put it inside of her at least a few times.
I suppose I was in denial.
You say it's not possible to not know for sure, well I know for a fact that it is. Serious question, have you ever had intercourse with a female? Do we have the exact same penis size? If not, I don't think you are too qualified to be telling me what I can or can't feel with my own body.
"Remember, I said it is certainly possible there was penetration for a brief period of time. "
"Certainly possible" is a far cry from actually having had penetrative sex.
Only you will know....... but as far as I can tell, you didn't. And even if you did, a brief exposure like you "think" you had is unlikely to infect. If you really think you penetrated her then test at 12 weeks...if you must!
If you want an opinion from the Doctors then you have to post in the "expert" forum.
"Certainly possible" is a far cry from actually having had penetrative sex.
Only you will know....... but as far as I can tell, you didn't. And even if you did, a brief exposure like you "think" you had is unlikely to infect. If you really think you penetrated her then test at 12 weeks...if you must!
If you want an opinion from the Doctors then you have to post in the "expert" forum.
You did not have unprotected PENETRATIVE vaginal sex. Quote: "Also during the massage she slapped my penis against her vagina a few times (frottage). It is also possible that my penis slipped inside of her at some point." No it is not possible without you knowing.
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