HIV DNA negative RNA positive can this happen?

I spoke with a person online that had these strange results after repeatedly taking the DNA PCR tests that came back negative he took an HIV RNA test that came back with viral load of >75. His doctor diagnosed him with some unknown HIV subtype and thinks that he can be one of those "carrier" people that may never develop antibodies to HIV. Can something like that really happen? I told him that it is most likely he got a false positive RNA test. Because his ELISA tests are also repeatedly came back negative. The person is also like me with in the eight weeks +  windows and after speaking with him I am terrified again. I also took a DNA PCR test and was thinking of taking an RNA test to validate the result. Because I constantly read that HIV-1 DNA PCR is only ~40% specific on subtype E,C, and A, and has 0% detection of F, and O subtypes. And for me it is important because I was with a prostitute that recently came here from Korea.

[dobber21]

This is why you shouldn't take RNA/DNA tests.
They are not used to diagnose HIV infection.

Look, it's simple. If it was a good way to diagnose infection, don't you think it would have replaced antibody testing by now? But there is too high a rate of false-positives, which is most likely what happened here. Stick to the antibody tests. I hope you both continue to test negative in that way:)

[WorriedT]

I don't know the statistics, but before jumping to any conclusions, I would check out the chances of a false positive versus the chances of being a non-responding HIV carrier. It wouldn't surprise me if a false positive was more likely!

Dobber21 is right - the doctor of your friend should be getting some sort of validation to make that conclusion, like follow-up Ab tests, plus Western blots to detect HIV proteins. Were all these definitely carried out?

[dobber21]

lexman did you use a condom?

[lexman]

But I read about these people that never develop antibodies called "non progressors" in scientific community. Or they go straight into AIDS after 8-10 years. And these people repeatedly test negative for years using antibody tests, they may become positive and symptomatic after 5 or 6 years if virus starts rapidly replicating. Then what do you do? This is so crazy but apparently this does happen mostly seen in young children as well as in some adults. But I agree with you on that PCR tests are not highly accurate however they are the best of what is available today. Since no one as I understand up to date was able to successfully separate the HIV virus. And the PCR tests look for certain proteins thought to be associated with HIV. So the manufacturers of these tests really mislead people from what I am reading. All this is really driving me nuts because from what I understand no one really knows what HIV DNA or RNA made of.. And that is why the false positives occur especially with the RNA test. DNA test is more like an advanced antigen test it analyzes proteins. I read some research where people under severe stress tested + on the RNA test and the researchers speculate this may be do to  some stress related enzymes produced by immune system this happens.

[lexman]

I did use a condom but the problem is I don't what kind that prostitute had and if or not it was latex. Plus I had this nasty symptom of oral candiditis, still have a bit, lasted for one month. Possibly do to 15 days of antibiotics. But still 42 days of minor candiditis is scary. Both of my doctors are fed up of me asking them for more HIV tests... and I am told my oral candiditis is a result of an antibiotic use. But more then a month it lasts. All though it is getting better.  And now sometimes I am getting this milky white lesion on my bottom lip, slight lip skin color change that comes and goes. And I keep asking them WHY? WHY? WHY? I am getting this and no one can give me a straight answer... except antibiotics caused it. And I am trying to come up with a strategy for myself on how to approach this. Should I just go for the RNA test and pray? I also spoke with another guy who took the RNA and had a viral load of 130,000 but did not feel a thing and had no symptoms. And doctors were shocked the guy was walking about fine with that kind of load.

[Teak]

There is only one PCR test approved to help with early diagnostics with HIV infection and that is the PCR RNA. It does not make any sense to even take it. The test is not conclusive until the antibody tests are confirmed. It's a waste of time and money. PCR testing has a high rate of false positives, which is another problem within it's self. Yes there are cases of people being positive with HIV with no antibodies and let me tell you it is very, very rare and there is extensive research going on with it. AidsMeds has two people that are HIV positive that are volunteering for the research. I'll see if I can find the article in the archives for you to read on.  

[dobber21]

No antibodies??
While very rare, has there been any reason found why this might be happening? Were the people immunodeficient?
Thanks

[cholny29]

Thanks Teak for that clarification! It calms my fears a bit!

[dobber21]

No antibodies??
While very rare, has there been any reason found why this might be happening? Were the people immunodeficient?
Sorry to repeat, just never heard this before,
Thanks

[Teak]

dobber, I stand corrected, they do  have antibodies but no detected viral loads or less than 2000 and the CD4s maintain in the normal range, and have never been on HAART. In general their bodies are capable of controlling HIV itself.

http://www.massgeneral.org/aids/hiv_elite_controllers.asp#what

http://www.aegis.com/news/wsj/2006/WJ060809.html

[dobber21]

Phew!
Don't do that to me dude!
Thanks as always:)

[cholny29]

I know this original post was not intended to frighten people but it just scared the hell out of me.  So Teak, does that mean there are people who will test antibody negative and PCR negative and RNA negative but actually be positive? And I actually read on aidsmeds about Queen Askasha whose bf was positive and it took her five yrs to test positive and she tested religiously, I actually pmed her to ask her these questions personally because it literally scared the **** out of me, just like this is. I know I may need mental counseling and help but I actually had a real risk and had real confirmed  symptoms, the fever (100.9), the unilateral swollen cervical lymph node that still exists (dr confirmed), the night sweats and even though it has been seven months I am still an emotional basket case because apparently there are cases where you can test positive not just at seven months but apparently up to five years. If nothing in the medical world is 100% correct how can I breathe easier? I know these things may be very rare but it only takes one person and what if I could be the one person? Is there any test that is definitive? I apologize for my rambling but I am so scared.

[wondering1122]

I seriously doubt that someone can have the HIV virus and not show any detectable viral load or any antibodies, thats just rediculous. You said you wore a condom, therefore you did not get HIV.

[Teak]

If you will read my post to dobber21 to correct the statement that persons have antibodies and NOT viral loads without the use of any medication. I posted some links for everyones reading.

wondering1122, I don't have a viral load. What do you think the reason is for being on antiviral medication? To get the viral load down below detectable levels.

[Teak]

There is only one PCR test approved to help with early diagnostics with HIV infection and that is the PCR RNA. It does not make any sense to even take it. The test is not conclusive until the antibody tests are confirmed. It's a waste of time and money. PCR testing has a high rate of false positives, which is another problem within it's self. Yes there are cases of people being positive with HIV with no antibodies and let me tell you it is very, very rare and there is extensive research going on with it. AidsMeds has two people that are HIV positive that are volunteering for the research. I'll see if I can find the article in the archives for you to read on.  

[strata]

I think Teak, dobber21, and others have covered it, but I'd just like to reiterate a few points because you had some serious misconceptions in your original posts.

First, someone is not considered HIV+ until they have a positive ELISA test that is confirmed by Western Blot. It doesn't make any difference what the PCR/RNA or PCR/DNA says; it needs to be confirmed by ELISA/WB.

Some of the unusual groups with the HIV community:

VERY few people fail to produce antibodies to HIV. Most of these are immunocompromised from aggressive chemotherapy, immunosuppressive drugs for transplantation (rare), or other disorder.

LTNP (long-term nonprogressors) DO produce HIV antibodies (antibody-positive, i.e., they are HIV+) but do not progress to symptomatic disease for many years, even without meds. I believe Teak is a member of the LTNP group, having lived with HIV for 21 years before going on meds. Scientists study this group with hopes of finding the factors that allow LNTPs to effectively fight HIV for so long.

HEPS (Highly Exposed, Persistently Seronegative, i.e., HIV-). There are some interesting studies going on with a certain group of prostitutes in Kenya and Gambia. These woman have been repeatedly exposed to HIV and show evidence of TRANSIENT HIV infection but remain antibody negative and HIV-free. This acquired resistance to HIV appears to depend on frequent, repeated exposure. In fact, some of the women from the study who eventually seroconverted did so when they left prostitution and acquired it from their husbands.