HIV from caning

Hello,

I've recently been into some caning session where the canes have been used on other people too, but have not been sterilized at all. First I did not consider these risks, but after looking into it I'm a bit confused.

The problem for me is, that my skin broke slightly during the session and I'm unsure about what to expect. There are a lot of informational sites on the internet, but no way get to some sort of conclusion. Considering the amount of time the cane has not been used (I would assume some hours) and the fact that it was stored at room temperature seems to suggest that the risk is quite small.

On the other hand, a lot of sites seem to suggest that there could be blood inside the wooden structure of the cane where the virus could still be active, because the blood might not have dried yet.

The cane is used regularly on different people where, I guess, nobody knows whether they are HIV positive (and as in this case they would have been homosexual men, I think, hence a group where the probability is higher than average that someone is HIV positive). So assuming the cane has drawn blood before, is it possible that the virus is still active after hours under these conditions (assuming the last person was e.g. HIV positive)? I am just asking because I am genuinely confused by the information I find about these topics.

And I guess concerning hepatitis, the risk might be higher? Or other things I did not consider?

Regards

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for an interesting question.

But caning?  That's a first for this forum!  In what context, pray tell?  Are you in a penal instituion or perhaps a military discipline situation?  In what country?  (I doubt any use prisons cane anybody these days, and I'm sure it doesn't happen in the US military, unless maybe in non-approved hazing rituals.)  Or maybe it's in a sexual (sadomasochistic) context?  I don't suppose it makes a difference biologically, however.

If the situation is voluntary and controllable (e.g. sexual, not penal) then I would recommend a) taking precautions to avoid breaking skin, e.g. with clothing in place and limiting the force of the blows; b) washing the canes with soap and water, and/or a disinfectant, between uses on different people (especially important if the canes are likely to be used on different persons in rapid sequence); and c) assuring that all persons who subject themselves to the practice ave been immunized against hepatitis B virus (HBV).

If those precautions aren't taken, what are the odds of transmission of HIV and other blood-borne viruses?  If sequential persons are struck with sufficient force to cause bleeding, and in rapid succession without time for blood to dry (e.g. a few minutes), I would rate the transmission risk as very high for HIV, HBV, and HCV.  The risk undoubtely is low if any blood contamination have dried, or if no blood were overtly visible -- close to zero for HIV, but perhaps small risks for HBV and HCV would persist.  As far as micrscopic amounts of blood in the wood fibers or cracks, I imagine the risk would be very small.  But of course there are no data and I cannot say there would be no risk.

Even if there is no visible blood, and even if hours or even days pass between uses, the canes should always be washed and disinfected after each use; and nobody should permit him- or herself to be caned unless assured the canes had been cleaned and disinfected.  Indeed, if this practice is occuring in a commercial establishment (bath house?) or in a private home, I believe in most states the business or homeowner could be prosecuted (and certainly would be liable in a lawsuit) if disease transmission could be proved.

I hope this helps.  Best wishes--  HHH, MD

[wubbel]

Thank you for your answer.

It's the sadomasochistic context in this case.
And I see that it is quite hard to make assessments, as this is not the most common case :)
Taking precautions would have been the best way. But as things go, I did not think the risks through too much at that point.

I did not notice any blood and I think the last time it was used was some hours before. Are there any comparable situations where HIV survives that long?

But as I did not see anything and everything probably has dried already and I don't even know if the cane was used on anyone infected I probably do not need to be overly concerned about HIV (even though I should not take it for granted)

In any case I will be more concerned about hygiene in the future.


Kind regards

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

I'm sure any particular caning event is very low risk, especially if the cane had not been used for several hours, or even recently if there was no visible blood -- low enough that testing isn't necessary unless needed for reassurance purposes.  However, repeated exposure over time would increase the risk and I would strongly recommend canees be tested regularly for HIV, maybe once a year.  Also, now knowing the context, I would assume that caning often is accompanied by other high risk sexual exposures.  If so, that circumstance also warrants periodic HIV testing, even if no particular exposure seemed to be high risk.