Im 17 yrs old and so afraid, im going through all this by myself, pray for me!!!!!1

I had a risky encounter in january giving a man unprotected oral sex but protected anal sex, a few weeks pass and i suddenly get these ARS symptoms including fever,chills,abdominal pain,diahrrea, but i dont rememebr a rash. The ARS symptoms then go away and a few months later my tonsils began to swell with white streaks of puss and my lymhnodes in my neck are a tad bit swollen, eventually the lymphnodes in my neck goes down but my tonsils still remained swollen but the white streaks have gone away.I went to the doctor several times and got tested for strep but both times they came back negative, the doctor told me to come back because the step bacteria cold be hiding somewhere else in my throat under my tonsils maybe. The feeling of something being stuck in my throat came a few weeks ago but went away. As of today i feel sick my lymphnodes in my neck are swollen and my neck feels tight, i am tired alot, i get dizzy and my heart beats so fast, my abdomin (abdomen) feels funny when i press on it from the pressure im applying. I have a white tongue but i dont think its thrush because it doesnt come off and it doesnt bleed when i brush it i also have this white like fungi looking thing on the roof of my mouth.oh yea my eyes feel heavy and when i breathe i have to take these long deep breaths to feel like i've gotten a great deal of oxygen in me, im just so scared and i don't wanna be sick like this anymore. Im only a 17 year old male and i have a life to live?? Do anybody kno of these symptoms happening in ARS, and what is the normal life expectancy of an HIV+ person if they take their meds on time, excersize, eat an healthy diet and if you have HIV will it turn to AIDS even if you are taking your meds and there working properly. How long can you live even if your HIV turns to AIDS but your still taking your medicine and it works????

[Lifestyles]

oh yea if you are HIV+ how do you get the same meds that kept magic johnson so well and alive for so long??????????

[Alex73]

Hi Lifestyles

You seem to be suffering from severe anxiety. Please try and relax. Your symptoms cannot be due to HIV because you had protected anal sex, provided the condom was used properly and did not fail (break). There is no risk associated with oral sex for practical purposes. Therefore your symptoms can not be due to HIV. They are not indicative of primary HIV infection anyway and absence of fever is a strong indicator against it. Continue consulting a ENT specialist with regards to your throat. And please seek medical treatment for your anxiety if it persists.

But from this encounter you don't need to be concerned about HIV however you are welcome to test after 12 weeks to get rid of any residual worries.

[Alex73]

Sorry I noted that you had fever and chills a few weeks after the encounter but I still feel it is not due to HIV, they could be due to 1000 different things all more common than HIV.

My original opinion does not change, you had protected sex, HIV can't be your problem.

[mike_no]

Oral Sex = NO RISK
Protected Sex = NO RISK

Your symptoms are not due to HIV they are either due to anxiety / other medical reasons, see a doctor and get it diagnosed but like myself and Alex told you, HIV IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM, NO WAY

Relax, if you're still concerned take a test at the 6-8 weeks FOR YOUR PEACE OF MIND And move on, I'm sure, if the above mentioned was your incidence there's nothing to worry about and the RESULT HAS TO BE NEGATIVE.

[Horriblyscared123]

Hey man, I'm still here. Do you remeber me the 16 year old? Yeah well I turn 17 very soon so we're virtually the same age. And if you're like me your worried to death about this disease. Well everyone here tells us that we had no risk and if we research it we get the same response- no risk or extremly low risk. I believe I've had every single ARS symptom with the exception of Fever. But when I think of my exposure I think " no way" But still I'm worrying and it scary to feel this way. It's consumed my entire life! I believe we are in the same boat and I also believe if we get tested it will definetly turn out negative. I am getting tested on Friday as it will have been 9 weeks post exposure. However I won't get my test results back intill 2 weeks later so I have a long time to worry more. But this is my outlook on it, we are both almost of age and this is the time when we are about to make all the decisions that will affect the rest of our lives. I mean College, mariage, jobs, careers, and more. We have alot to worry about but its exciting because its all going to be new to us. But this HIV thing pops up and we go crazy because it would ruin our lives. I believe we are focusing to much on the "WHAT IF" than the real picture. I do it all the time. I say to myself..." If I have this I wont be able to do this or that, have kids, go to college, grow old." And its not healthy for us, but we can't stop. The only way to stop it is to get tested and its scary to do it, but it's better than What if-ing ourselves everyday. It's exausting, but I do it also and I'm sure you do too. Dude just try to focus on the fact that your not alone. I'm your age and feeling the same way you do.

[scareshitless]

Those symptoms does not sound much like ARS but anxiety, get some anxiety medicine and they will magically dissapear. According to research between 50-90% of newly infected people get ARS which include fever up to the 100, rashes, very fatigue( not ur usual Im tired). Oral sex carries some risk but very minimal, if he did not ejacualte in ur mouth or u did not have any open sores or gum disease then hiv in this case is close to nonexistent. For the protected sex, well it is protected if the condom did not fail, so hiv is nil also. How does Magic do it, $$$:)

[Lifestyles]

Horriblyscared i feel u man i always "WHAT IF" myself and i worry myself about what others would think if im infected with the virus, would if i die at ther age of 20 or how long can i live with the virus before it will turn to AIDS and i die painfully, or would my family still accept me and the usual things in life; especially the fact of would i graduate from high school and go to college. Im so scared to  get tested but i dont know what to do, i know its simple to go but I have no one to show me the support. If i walk away from this i swear I am never going to have sex again lol, but we are too young to be dealing with this, medicines are toxic, and there is supposbly no CURE insight which i think is extremely bogus, just hearing the words HIV+ makes me tremble with fear i swear i had every thing in januARY FROM FEVER TO CHILLS but no rash so i dont know. All we can do is pray and hope God has a miracle in store for us and those who are already living with HIV/AIDS. Does HIV really cause AIDS from research from other doctors in different countries i read that it doesnt what causes it is from poor health before the initial HIV infection but who knows.. Well i wish u the best of luck and trust me its going to be negative just pray!!!!!

[afraid213]

I feel for you man, and pray for you, I really do, I am a 17 year old male aswell, and I am going through exactly what you are going through, WE ARE NOT ALONE.

[golf87]

Hey man, Im just another one who is going through the same type of anxiety as you are. However, if it makes you feel any better I put myself in a little bit more risky situation than you did. I had unprotected sex with a girl at college who I was unaware of her past. I have since been having symptoms very similar to yours and everyone keeps telling me that they are caused from my anxiety which I can understand. Medical experts keep telling me that my chances are very low and my symptoms are probably caused by something else, but I keep convincing myself it is the worst. You sound safe due to your situation and I am sure you are going to be fine. You are in my prayers everytime I pray for myself man. Hope all goes well!!

[Tydog]

I'm going through the same thing. Just had blood drawn. I am scared to death. I don't know if anyone was as risky as me. Unprotected oral sex with 5 different men on 7 occasions. No ejaculation though. I have swollen tonsils and back pain recently. But your in my thoughts man, hopefully we can all learn from our mistakes and live better lives because of it without it costing us dearly.

[jjohnny]

You should be OK...but Ill pray for you just because I am going through the same anxiety.

[Teak]

You didn't have a risk.

[Tydog]

How is this possible when I read from so many that say oral puts you at risk. Is it possible to have the thing so far down your throat that it gets directly into your tonsils and into the bloodstream? I know that sounds stupid but Im just concerned.

[Teak]

To keep from explaining this over and over again go through the replies on this forum and you will see why you do not contract HIV in this manner.

[SillyStupid]

I'm worried as hell, too... A couple of days ago I gave a stranger (said he's bi) a 2-3 minute fellatio without a condom, didn't taste any precum (but could be wrong on that), he did not ejaculate anywhere near my mouth or on me. We did not have any other kind of sex, we did not kiss. Now I'm so scared, I keep thinking "what if my tooth that came out like 3 weeks ago acted as a bridge for the HIV" (though there's no bleeding) and "what if pre-*** is infectious" and "what if I give HIV which I probably have to my girlfriend and she will die and I will die". And so on. I'm just freaking out. Tomorrow I'm getting tested for STDs such as gonorrhea and clamidya, but it's going to be a long wait to the 4-6 weeks window to get tested for HIV and syphillis (syphilis).

I'm praying so hard, I don't know what came over me, I'm heterosexual and only bi-curious at best, but I did this stupid stupid thing and can't shake the feeling I will die for it and/or take others with me...

OMG.

[SillyStupid]

Oh yes, I'm also scared to death if they discover I have gonorrhea or clamidya since these elevate the risk of getting HIV from oral sex... I'm so worried I'm trembling and crying and everything :( :( :(.

[Teak]

Stop with the drama and get educated. You are not going to contract HIV from oral. Next time you post start your own thread if you have questions and concerns.

[Jaguar83]

Three sad faces in a row? Damn....

[SillyStupid]

Teak, I Iooked at your profile and you seem to know what you're talking about. I'm not saying you're not right - I wish to God that you are. But I've seen some studies on the net and they've been pretty negative, stating that one can indeed contract HIV by performing fellatio even if there is no ejaculation in the mouth. I don't need to post links, simple googling gets them.

I'm not trying to steal/spam the topic or insult you, but it would be helpful if you could give some educated proof or something? It would probably help set the other guys' minds at ease.

Thanks.
Thanks.

[Teak]

You have not seen studies on the web or you would have know there wasn't a risk. For the reading.

http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic/drk/oralsex4.asp

[SillyStupid]

So how about
http://www.tht.org.uk/informationresources/safersex/oralsex/
where it clearly states that oral sex carries risk?
Or many links from
http://www.thebody.com/index/safesex/oralsex.html
?

I'm sorry, it just does not seem realistic that oral sex poses no risk.

[jddkdd]

The information on those sites are based on patient reports.  Patient reports are notoriously unreliable.  Even Dr. H says so.  For a host of reasons, patient reports do not always tell the entire story, true story, etc.  

On the other hand, the documented scientific studies say no risk.  There's one in Spain that studied thousands of sero-discordant couples who used protection for intercourse and none for oral.  Guess what: no seroconversions.  We're talking over 19,000 instances of oral with ejaculation in mouth, high viral loads, etc.  NONE.  Not one seroconversion.  Then there's the study in San Francisco, California.  Smaller cohort, but they sorted for only oral activities among MSM and received the patient reports of activities PRIOR to disclsoure of HIV test results.  Again, some were with ejaculation, some were with known HIV+ partrners, etc., etc.  Guess What:  No seroconversions.  If there is any risk at all, it is vanishingly small so as to not be practical for a real life transmission vector.  There are a host of reasons why some websites say otherwise.  Some for litigation reasons, some for public health policy reasons, and others for political reasons.  When you can show a scientifc study (that does not rely on patient reports post disclosure of status results) which shows credible oral transmission then there is something to seriously debate.  

I've had an oral exposure with someone of unknown status and I am scared despite all that I have written above, but I realize that is my own OCD issue (and guilt because I cheated on my partner).  Nevertheless, the data is there and cannot be controverted by anecdote.

[Jaguar83]

With the exception of Dr. Bob, don't trust the jerkoff doctors on transmission, testing, etc. views on thebody.com. They are a bunch of fear-seeding endoplasms who will judge you.

[SillyStupid]

I don't think I can buy that. Check out http://www.thebody.com/content/prev/art32502.html. It cites 9 studies that come to this conclusion:

"Each reaches the same conclusion: oral sex can, under certain circumstances, transmit HIV; it happens rarely; among those who get HIV (which is itself a relatively small percent of people having unsafe sex), a very small number got it from unprotected oral sex. This does not mean we should be reckless. It just means we should play as safely as we are able."

Are all of there based on patient reports?

Jddkdd is probably right when he says I'm freaking out for other reasons. But seeing such reports I cannot rule out that the risk was there. And that makes me very very worried :(.

[jddkdd]

Yes, those are based on flawed patient reports.  In fact, the article you cite even supports that by saying:  "There are huge problems with all of these efforts to determine the safety of oral sex transmission with regard to gay men. First, there are a certain number of men who, regardless of what they say or what psychosocial methods are used to determine the truth of what they say, will never admit to having anal receptive sex, as it is somewhat of a sub-cultural taboo. Sexism exists and one of its many manifestations is the tendency of a small percent of men to deny playing what some interpret as the "female" role in sexual behavior. There are also men with long-term partners who play out their "submissive" needs unbeknownst to their partners, with whom they may well restrict themselves to oral sex. And they aren't about to tell anyone that they do this. There simply is no provable way to tease out what percent of people who claim to engage in nothing but oral sex are people who would never admit to anal receptive sex, except to note that it is some percent, and therefore all of the data on oral transmission needs to be adjusted in this light."  

I couldn't have said it any better than the article.  What is also powerful are the results of studies that have been done which include, again, over 19,000 instances of oral in which there was a control for other activities.  Not one seroconversion.  Same with the California study which also controlled for only oral activities and had the same result.  None of the patient based reports can cite to that level of confidence with respect to the patient reports.  

Can it happen?  I guess so.....open, fresh wounds in mouth or excessively bad oral health with bleeding gums and ejaculate from someone with high viral load.  But even then the risk is small because of the inhibitory effect of saliva on the virus.  Trust the science of HIV transmission and tyy not to worry.  And I'll try to do the same.
Peace

[SillyStupid]

So you sincerely believe that in my case, I don't have to worry?

[Teak]

If I thought you were at risk I would have told you and advised you to test. If you want to test go ahead and test 12/13 weeks post non risk exposure and collect your negative result.

[SillyStupid]

I want to thank you both to be patient with me. I know how I must sound like, but I'm so scared I can't really think straight. I found lots of studies that state that in my case transmission would indeed be possible. However in light of this data, they don't seem all that reliable.

I want to share what the Swiss AIDS foundation (www.aids.ch) had to share when I emailed them:

You asked about pre-*** being considered to be a risk of HIV-infection.

"There is a risk of transmission when having anal or vaginal intercourse, even if no ejaculation occurs. HIV transmission can occur when blood, semen (***), pre-seminal fluid (pre-***), vaginal fluid, or breast milk from an infected person enters the body of an uninfected person. In Oral Sex pre-*** carries no risk of transmission, because it does not carry as much HIV as *** and saliva has natural properties that limit the possibility of infection. But: It is important not to get any sperm into your mouth, and if you do, don’t swallow. In oral sex, according to the current state of knowledge, the so-called pre-*** before climax does not constitute any risk, but *** does!"

If you have any comments on that, please post them.

[jddkdd]

I don't find anything conflicting in what the Swiss Aids Foundation is saying to you.  They say "pre-*** carries no risk of transmission, because it does not have as much HIV."  Dr. H has said in the past that transmission of HIV involves large amounts of the virus.  The low volume in pre-*** and the inhibitory effects of saliva, (plus the fact that the oral mucosa are much less susceptible to infection than the genital tract) are what make oral sex not a viable infection route.  The part about not getting *** in your mouth is just practical advice.  It makes sense that you would limit your exposure to potentially larger amount of virus.  No one has proven that this reduces the theoretical risk even lower, but from a risk management perspective it makes sense.  Think about it, if oral with ejaculation were a viable method of infection, there would be ample evidence of it beyond the handful of patient reports.  Millions and millions of blowjobs have been given since this epidemic began and we have not seen oral as a viable vector.  

I am in your position and know how you are feeling.  I fooled around with a guy who's bi, married and I'm regretting it too.  But really, you need to relax.  Seriously.  You are now contacting organizations in foreign countries. That's a bit much.  Listen to what Teak says.  I don't know him personally, but from reviewing his replies to these posts, he definitely knows his stuff and has no reason to sugar coat anything.  If that's not enough, you can ask the folks over at Aidsmeds.com, they are very knowledgeable and base their advice on peer reviewed scientific data.  Peace.

[SillyStupid]

Thanks again, especially for pointing me to the Aidsmeds.com site, they seem very realistic and knowledgeable.

[SillyStupid]

One more thing, if any of you can be bothered: what are the chances or contracting some other STD with my kind of sexual encounter? Especially chlamidiya, syphillis (syphilis) and gonorrhea.

[Teak]

The chances are either you did or you didn't. How do you know? Have an oral STD panel done.

[Teak]

You're asking for odds. I don't do odds.

[SillyStupid]

I plan to ASAP, I'm asking for an opinion about the risks - high risk, low risk, total risk, no risk or whatever.

[SillyStupid]

Ok, thanks anyway. I'm almost convinced about the HIV transmission risk and I'll get the STD test done as soon as possible.

[jddkdd]

Gonorrhea, Syphillis (syphilis), Herpes, etc., etc. are much easier to transmit orally and genitally.  But they are also very treatable and/or curable (Herpes is not curable).  As the folks over at Aidsmeds would tell you, if you are having sex you should also be having periodic STD examinations, including HIV.  Proper and consistent use of  condoms for any type of sexual intercourse (anal and vaginal) and you should be fine with respect to HIV.  Aidsmeds also has a good section for learning the proper use of condoms and lube as well as education around transmission.  Peace

[SillyStupid]

I actually had just this one brief episode of unsafe sex (with a person I did not know). Didn't really like it anyway, I guess the want to try was just too much. I am an idiot.

I realize that the odds for HIV are totally low (if any) and that my own feelings of guilt and shock are probably the real issue here. To connect to Lifestyles as the original poster: it's probably like this with him.

[SillyStupid]

I came accross this study by CDC:

http://www.health24.com/medical/Condition_centres/777-792-814-1764,35251.asp

... where it is stated that oral sex without a condom with someone who has a high viral load is considered HIGH RISK. I'm freaking out again... :( :( :
(

[Teak]

Please get your information from responsible sites. Read the following from Dr. K.  

http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic/drk/oralsex4.asp

[jddkdd]

Also, see what Dr H says at this link:

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/HIV/messages/1206.html

STOP searching the internet it's not good for your mental health.

[SillyStupid]

Just had a talk with the guy I have fellatio to (not in person, online). He says he's perfectly healthy, had an HIV-test done a year ago and it was negative. It's a relief somewhat.

[Teak]

Don't be so naive. If you had a real risk, you test period.

[Teak]

Then do whatever you need to do. Test collect your negative result and move on. You did not have a risk.

[SillyStupid]

Well you did say that in my case there is no real risk. I will get tested, of course.

[SillyStupid]

I wonder how it is that some scientists come to conclusions that are so wildly different from others. I can't shake the thought that it's very possible that the doctors you are posting are wrong and that the others are right.

Also, I can't figure out what bad oral hygiene means. My teeth are not perfect but I brush at least two times a day and use oral wash. The tooth in question probably still has some inflammation around it and I obsess over it - what if, what if, what if. There's so many "what if"-s and I'm so confused I just can't calm down.

[Teak]

If I had thought there had been a risk I would have told you.

[Teak]

Can't help you with "what ifs."

[SillyStupid]

But you still think there was no or negligible risk?

[SillyStupid]

God, you're like a rock :). Or a very hard wood ;). Thank you.

[SillyStupid]

After perusing many forums and studies, I have come to the conclusion that I most certainly have contracted HIV. I have searched high and low for data and if there is one word to choose about the so called studies in pretty much all the areas about HIV, its: b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t. I have seen percentages for penile-anal sex in the range of 0,0005 and 82 per 10.000 for receptive unprotected anal sex. Almost every answer to questions on this site is met with "your exposure was low risk". If there are such miniscule risks involved with even unprotected anal sex and there is so little risk in heterosexual activity, then how come HIV is so abundant? How come it's a pandemic, especially rampant in the Third World where heterosexuals contract it all the time despite the tiny tiny percentage ratios given out by Western 'experts'? There's something VERY wrong with this picture. Also, any report on oral HIV transmission that is not part of a study is met with 'anecdotal'. Why is that? What do these people have to gain by lying?

I have resigned myself to the fact that I have contracted HIV. I had a life and I threw it all away - my fiancee, my job, everything. I guess I wanted something more and this is a punishment for all my sins, especially gluttony. I will decide on suicide in a couple of days. God bless you all.

[OrionQuest]

What 82 per 10,000 means is that for every 10,000 exposures 82 will get infected.  That means if there are 1,000,000 exposures, 8200 will get infected.  For every 100,000,000 exposures, 820,000 get infected.  It's still low risk, but people still get infected.  

That's why the studies are not bull-s-h-i-t, yet they also reflect the reality that people do get infected.  How do we know if we're infected or not?  Get tested if you have a risk.

About HIV being punishment for sins, I'll reiterate what I wrote in the "Guilty Feelings vs Protected Sex" topic.  I wrote that we are so obsessed with a punishing God that we forget that about the merciful God.  God balances justice with mercy in ways unfathomable to us (as in why some babies are born with HIV while some chronic adulterers never get sick).

BUT the point is HIV is NOT some divine punishment.  It's a disease that can be caught through specific circumstances.  So get your test, pray for the negative, and learn from this experience.

And yes, I have thought of suicide too (yet another topic that JD75 started).  That's the coward's way out.  We thought of suicide and we don't even know if we're sick yet.  People like Teak and Dr Bob and the good people of Aidsmeds ARE sick and yet here they are working to help cowards like us.  Think of what it must be like for THEM.

[Teak]

You can resign yourself to think whatever you want. You are such a drama queen. Make sure you come back and tell everyone when you collect your negative result. Suicide? You have a lot more issues than anything that has to do with HIV. Seek through a professional mental health clinic.

[SillyStupid]

You know, a lot of my sanity has been riding on your "oral sex poses no risk", but there have been documented cases of HIV transmission by penile-oral sex. I do not understand how you can say "no risk" if there obviously is a risk - there's the studies and there's the stories and there's the numbers. If there's a a 1-in-10.000 chance of getting infected by performing fellatio, that is still a risk (100 people in a million cases). Even if there's a 1-in-100.000 chance, that's 10 people in a million cases. You telling me or others that there is NO risk is not fair or truthful.

Basically, I just don't know how I will survive this fear. I pray every single day, I try to find hope, but I cannot shed the panic.

[SillyStupid]

"BUT the point is HIV is NOT some divine punishment.  It's a disease that can be caught through specific circumstances.  So get your test, pray for the negative, and learn from this experience. "

Oh I'm learning, but it seems like reality has shed a layer and suddenly I'm alone in some nightmarish land where only slivers of hope remain.

"And yes, I have thought of suicide too (yet another topic that JD75 started).  That's the coward's way out.  We thought of suicide and we don't even know if we're sick yet.  People like Teak and Dr Bob and the good people of Aidsmeds ARE sick and yet here they are working to help cowards like us.  Think of what it must be like for THEM."

I know, but I don't see how they can be giving false hope. HIV can be gotten by fellatio no matter how the fact is twisted, and sugar coating it doesn't make the fact go away.

[SillyStupid]

I'm Christian.

You know, this was my first and only exposure of this kind? I've been monogamous and faithful for years... I don't know what came over me. I just know I'm being punished, first with this excrutiating wait, then with the disease that is sure to follow.

[OrionQuest]

I personally never say giving oral sex is no risk.  When people say oral sex =  no risk I think they generally mean GETTING a blowjob.  But yes, no matter how small, you did have a risk.

This is how to help overcome the fear:  

a) realize that even though there was a risk, it was still SMALL.  Ludicrously small.  So the odds are not against you, they are FOR you.

b) You say you pray, so have faith.  I don't know if you are a Christian or Moslem or not, but imagine Abraham's faith when God commanded him to KILL his son Isaac.  He was actually ABOUT to, when God said stop.

[SillyStupid]

Thank you for the comments, I do appreciate it. I will pray for you too today at mass.

Btw, Teak, if you're still reading this: I found this quite exhaustive and quite up-to-date roundtable (http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=pr-rr-05) where scientists debate. In my case, there seems to be a negligible risk since HIV-infection in my kind of situation is "exceedingly rare". But there are other factors you might find interesting concerning oral sex and HIV-transmission.

[OrionQuest]

At this rate you're going to die of a heart attack instead of HIV.  Pull yourself together.  Don't cross the bridge until you're there.  You don't even know if you have it.  The chances are small.

[OrionQuest]

mass - you're catholic too?  Try learning about St. Padre Pio.  

[OrionQuest]

mass - you're catholic too?  Try learning about St. Padre Pio.  

[Jaguar83]

No god will save you, you drama queens. Such p_ssies here, seriously. And, SillyStupid, you are gay...you gave a guy a BJ. You need to come clean with your fiancee. Seriously, you are kidding yourself if you think you are straight while s_cking a pen!s. That's all it comes down to.

[SillyStupid]

Actually I didn't like it and I didn't want to have "proper" sex. I acted out of curiousity for certain personal reasons and found that it's really not my cup of tea. Or any other fluid.

I actually came clean with myself.

[SillyStupid]

Hope, pray and don't worry? Perhaps I will be there some day... The sooner the better. Thx for the tip though.

[Teak]

There are no confirmed documented cases that say that someone contract HIV only through oral sex. All the scientific studies have shown that there is no risk. You will not be the first documented case in HIV history to contract HIV in that manner.

[OrionQuest]

I respect you if you don't believe in God.  But some of us do so please at least respect that.

[SillyStupid]

I most certainly will not be such a case since I'm not part of an experiment, case report, cohort or whatever. If I were to get HIV from my exposure, no one would believe me anyway. You would shrug me off, saying I'm "anecdotal", "non-verified" et cetera. The doctors would shrug me off since I was not part of a verified experiment. And so on.

The link I supplied lists the percentages and case reports. I suggest you read them, perhaps starting with "I think that there's clearly biological plausibility that HIV transmission can occur from receptive fellatio with ejaculation and there are a number of types of databases that support that that occurs."

[Jaguar83]

All I'm saying is no outside force is going to either prevent or assist you getting HIV. I'm sure many of the 40 million plus HIV positives on this planet are religious and have prayed many times to not get it or for their particular deity to cure them. That hasn't happened.

Only YOU are responsible for your actions. Don't fool yourself. This has nothing to do with respect for others. Respect YOURSELF.

[OrionQuest]

See, you can make your point in an intelligent way.  My point is that SillyStupid obviously needs support and if he can get that from religion then let's respect that.  

I also said that HIV is neither a punishment nor is preservation from HIV a reward.  HIV is a disease that is spread through specific circumstances.

[Teak]

Now go look at the real studies.

[SillyStupid]

What real studies would that be? You supplied one link where a doctor says "Well, it's fine to have oral sex, really". I supplied a roundtable discussion where studies such as the Spanish study are in fact cited, as well one more from SF. But there are also others cited and they're not so rosy. The combined data is there and I don't think not taking a part of it into account (the part you don't like) is very educated.

[SillyStupid]

In curch, I'm not sitting there praying for a miracle or for God to cure me. I'm just... hoping through prayer, praying for people around me... Wondering if by removing me God is actually taking care of them. He/she/it works in mysterious ways, granted, and I wouldn't be surprised if this would be the case.

If I make it through this alive and am HIV-positive, I will probably try to become a priest, to help others. But even if I'm not HIV-positive, I will try to help others a lot more, particularly people with HIV. Even now, when I understand a fraction the severity of the disease, it is absolutely terrifying. And even if I argue with Teak, I have the ultimate respect for him, for Dr. Bob and others infected with HIV.

This will definitely help make me a better person either way... I just wish that I could be a better non-HIV person than otherwise. Hope that is understandable...

[Jaguar83]

All I can say is I don't wish this **** on anyone. And for those that have it, the mainstream social stigma needs to be removed. That being said, have fun in church...whatever works for ya (as long as you don't prosthelytize or blow up innocents, I could care less).

[Teak]

If you want to dwell in self pity have at it, which I'm sure you will do until you go get your negative result, then you won't believe that either.

[Teak]

Search for the Spain study, then search the california study, then search the studies on serocouples. If that's not good enough for you go to AidsMeds and talk with the people that are in serocouple relationships that have protected vaginal sex and unprotected oral sex with positive partners and have for years and non have seroconverted. Other than that, you can worry yourself sick until you collect your negative result.

[SillyStupid]

I do dwell, I admit it. But I also have searched a lot and I think I know the risks (it's too late now, granted, but perhaps better late then never?). I would just like to see the overwhelming real studies that would support your hypothesis that oral sex is no risk at all. Since you educate about HIV in colleges and high schools, I don't think you will have any problems.

You may think I'm nuts, and at this point I may as well be somewhat. But that does not detract from my findings, beginning with the link I have posted.

[SillyStupid]

Yes, but how can you disregard all the other evidence and studies?

[regularjoey]

I think you are waaaay overreacting over this.
While I doubt that any HIV specialist will ever tell you that giving oral is ZERO risk, everyone agrees that it is extremely low, even where contact with semen is involved.
I never discourage people from testing, you clearly need it for psychological purposes, but I'm absolutely confident that you will not test positive.  

[SillyStupid]

I checked out the AidsMeds forum and found a lot of encouragement. I really, really hope they are right (especially RapidRod, right, Teak? :)). I just don't understand how there can be so much conflicting advice and data. I've seen everything from oral sex = no risk to oral sex = high risk.

[regularjoey]

Yes getting Teak's opinion, and then a second opinion from RapidRod is really encouraging )))
There is no conflicting data on this.
Pretty much everyone now agrees that the risk for oral is extremely low, but not zero.

[OrionQuest]

You also have to understand the difference between a theoretical risk and an actual risk.  Theoretically I can get hit by a crashing airplane right here where I sit.  Does it happen often? No.  CAN it happen? Yes.  Should I worry about it? No.

[Teak]

This is the internet. You can find all the conflicting information that you want if you want to take the time and look for it. I have to agree with reg. if it will make you feel better then test.

[SillyStupid]

Well I've read several postings on AidsMeds's "I just tested poz" forums and there are several - several!! - individuals who claim they could only have contracted HIV by oral sex, swearing there is no other way they could have gotten it. What I don't understand is how in the "Am I infected?" forums you and your collegaues keep giving out advice "I wouldn't even test about this" and similar to people who perfomed fellatio if there's a number of people on that same board infected by oral sex.

[SillyStupid]

For example this person whose only risks were open kissing and oral sex: http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=2716.0. Or this person: http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=4800.0.

[Teak]

Yeah, yeah, yeah and they aren't about to tell you about their real risks either. We give out scientific advice not some peer review stories. There are no one on the board that were infected by oral sex period. It's the internet, you can say what you want but when it gets down to it and asking them questions you get the "Oh I forgot about that or I just did it one time or I stopped and put on a condom before proceeding." etc. etc. Do you actually know how long it takes to get the person to breakdown and tell you their real risks? We find that most would rather lie than admit to what they've actually done. I don't know if it's guilt or shame. You can never go by what someone says or asking someone if they are negitive before having sex. You aren't going to find honesty in the head of a penis or the opening of a vagina, both have lips but neither can utter a word.

[SillyStupid]

Or the user "MoltenStorm" who in this thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=837.0) says:

"Can HIV be transmitted through oral sex?
Yes. "Minimal" risk is still a risk. I got HIV through receptive fellatio (no ejaculation).
Oral Sex is a risk of transmission even though popular belief likes to dictate otherwise. While it may not be as risky as unprotected anal or vaginal sex, it is still a risk."

Although it's hard for me to think rationally because another wave of panic is about to seize me, I don't believe it's fair of you or other moderators on AidsMeds forum not to advise testing to anyone who has performed fellatio. There are clearly people who have been infected this way. Going strictly by your advice, I wouldn't test, but the more I read on AidsMeds, the more I'm seeing the truth of this being a very very real threat.

[Teak]

We question them all the time. Like I told you go take your test, collect your negative result, then come back here and post your negative result on the forum. That is how much faith I have in science verses the word of some worry wort.

[Teak]

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=2716.0 a couple of posts for this person in 2006 that has never been back to the forum. Why? Because they weren't infected in the first place.

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=4800 Again this person posted only once in 2006 and has never been back. Because like most of you here they didn't have a risk to begin with.

[SillyStupid]

"There are no one on the board that were infected by oral sex period."

How can you say that?!?! You could only know that if you were some kind of a mind-reader or a deity or something. I seems that you're covering your eyes not wanting to see what these people have to say just because they were not part of a scientific study.

"But when it gets down to it and asking them questions you get the "Oh I forgot about that or I just did it one time or I stopped and put on a condom before proceeding." etc. etc. Do you actually know how long it takes to get the person to breakdown and tell you their real risks? We find that most would rather lie than admit to what they've actually done."

No, I don't know how long that takes. Do you? Have you questioned these people? Do you know them?

[Teak]

There is another one that won't put the real risks that he has had. Like it has been said to you before if you want to test, test go collect your negative result and move on. I noticed you didn't mention any of the serocouples that have had sex from many years, protected vaginal or anal sex and unprotected oral. None have became positive. They would be the highest risk people there are for contracting HIV if oral was transmitted in that manner.

[SillyStupid]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. I'm not saying that there is zero chance in fellatio for contracting HIV, no expert says that. I understand there is a very low risk involved. But I'm not comfortable with the advice given out on AidsMeds that reads "No need to test over this [oral] incident" since you have people on that very same board who claim they have been infected in this very manner!

[Teak]

We can't make you believe. People like you won't believe your tests either. There is nothing we can do. All we can do is give you the facts based on scientific studies and that's it. Now go test collect your negative result and be done with it.

[OrionQuest]

Dude, I think some issue here is also you don't trust yourself.  Hence, you find it hard to trust anything at all.  Here's another angle: there's nothing you can do now except wait out the window period and test IF YOU LIKE.

Again I have to say this.  HIV is not a punishment from God, nor is being safe from HIV a divine reward.  HIV is a virus caught in very specific circumstances.  Some of these circumstances are so high risk that infection is almost inevitable (blood transfusion).  Some have so infinitesmally small risk that it's not worth considering.  Your risk was closer to the latter than the former.  

But how to really, truly, confirm a negative? By testing.

[SillyStupid]

Teak, what I believe is that MoltenStorm (see http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=1963.0) was struck by lightning, so to speak. I wouldn't even be worried if after I brushed my teeth approx. 20 minutes after the fellatio I gave (without ejaculation or deep throating) I noticed a slight gum bleeding behind the top front teeth (it stopped as soon as I dried it with a tissue). I have no idea if this bleeding was there when I was giving fellatio (I have no reason to think so but I'm not sure - I did spit multiple times into a tissue after, I saw nothing), I have no idea if it came about after I brushed. My gums in question don't normally bleed and I have generally pretty good oral health. The blowjob I gave was very gentle.

I plainly and simply do not know how and why this small bleeding occured, and I'm driving myself sick with worry. Especially after reading MoltenStorm's story... Is it possible it was just my mouth's response in regards to changes in condition in it? Is this in any way normal? I just don't know, I can't remember and I worry so, so much.

[SillyStupid]

I understand that only a test will give me the definitive result. But it's only been 10 days now and I've got like 32 days to go minimum. I simply do not know if I can take this - every day I read about HIV and post and read posts and fight this panic and fear that permeate me. Yesterday I was almost fine, then I started reading AidsMeds "Living with HIV" forums and I came upon these people who have been infected by giving fellatio... I fell apart again.

[SillyStupid]

You have nothing to comment about the things I wrote above? Is your advice still the same?

[Teak]

"Who said that they were infected by fellatio." Stay off the internet and you won't have half the problems you bring upon youself.

[Teak]

My advice is still the same.

[MelvinG1]

I don't think he is experiencing ARS, it sounds like he got some other type of virus, and his anxieties, depression, stress and all this worrying is just making it worst and complicated I was there, so I know, most of his symptoms, i'll say the majority of them I had them In May, and I took my HIV test at 91 days and 103 days both negative, I thank GOD for that!!! Did he get tested? it's past his 3 months, I know he'll be alright and I know his test will come back negative. Symptoms don't mean anything, and i can prove it and hundreds of other ppl here and in thebody.com have shown similiar symptoms 3 months later they are whooo hooooing from happiness HIV NEG.

[jddkdd]

FYI.....if you haven't seen it, here's what Dr. HHH says about the risk:

"I never go to the support forum, because I don't have the time or energy to get involved in (or even read) what I expect are mostly emotionally driven discussions. But you can tell them I said that with respect to HIV (and for most STDs), oral sex is basically safe sex. Are there exceptions? Of course, but rare enough to be ignored. People also get hit by lightning. If all vaginal and anal intercourse disappeared and were replaced by oral sex as the only sexual practice, HIV/AIDS would disappear from the world as infected persons aged (and as some died). Almost no new HIV infections would occur, except by injection drug use and similar risks.

This is my only comment on it. I'm not going to get into any further discussion of it, directly on the support forum or any follow-up comments here."

He's basically saying it doesn't happen.

[SillyStupid]

Yesterday I leveled with my girlfriend, it was no walk in the park but it seems we'll be able to works things out. I realize that most of my HIV-fears have been fuelled by the incredible guilt I have felt towards her and the henious act I have commited. I'm still unnerved about what a positive test might mean but I do realize that the chances of me being infected are close to non-existent. Dr. Bob answered me to the same degree and I will probably calm down in time.

Thanks for all the support.

[OrionQuest]

Told you so.