Aa
Positive Blood On a Cut
I wasn't able to post this for the doctor to answer since the forum was closed to new questions. I will try again although I know he might not answer since it's nonsexual. I hope you guys can help me relax in the meantime.
To make a terribly long story only very long, it was HIV/AIDS positive blood on a 34 hour old ½ inch paper cut which had possibly bled (not sure) for a few seconds initially. The patient had not been on any medication, but was not in the hospital because he was dying of AIDS, he was a trauma case. The paper cut was on the back of my finger near but not on the knuckle. I had removed my soiled gloves intending to put on another pair when I felt the splash.
I am concerned that the location of the cut, washing my hands, and bending my fingers in the 34 hours after the cut might have kept the wound open enough for HIV to enter. About 15 to 20 seconds after I felt the splash I got a standard sized hospital alcohol pad and wiped the area of the cut (70% isopropyl alcohol) and continued to care for the patient. (I'm estimating about 15 to 20 seconds to get to where the alcohol pads were.)
More than 48 but less than 72 hours later I saw the occupational safety MD who stated that I didn’t need PEP and that my wound was most likely closed enough by 34 hours. I also spoke to some of my colleagues who felt that most people wouldn’t even remember to worry about a paper cut let alone one that happened 34 hours earlier. They say the wound was closed enough and I’m fine, but I realize they are not experts in HIV transmission. Also, they might not be so unconcerned if it happened to them.
At about 12 days after the “exposure” started the march of symptoms: muscle aches off and on and headaches off and on and also swollen or tender lymph nodes in the neck off and on. I had maybe some tenderness in the armpits back and forth, not really constant. I have had these symptoms before around and during my period which did in fact come a few days after those symptoms started. The symptoms continued throughout my period, but they are still continuing now to a lesser extent.
Now what really scared me out of my wits was that on the 33rd day after the “exposure” I found a red painful maybe 3 mm sore on one side of my lower lip and maybe 2 or 3 very tiny ones on the other side of my lip. I think they were just at the edge of where the mucous membrane stops. The big one went away in 2 days without any treatment and I think the smaller ones went away before that. I’ve never had sores on my lips… ever. I thought they might have been from salty food. I tried to recreate them with more salty foods but they did not return. Since the “exposure” I have found that my temperature goes up to about 99.5 in the afternoon at work, and then by the time I am ready to go home usually about 4:00 pm it’s back down to normal. My feeling is that this is probably normal for me, but I had just never checked before.
I consulted with the same occupational safety MD who had initially evaluated me and explained my symptoms. She still did not think that I had been infected and offered me a test for “peace of mind.” The problem is that it was only day #50.
The test was negative for HIV-1/-2 at day 50. Further testing was not mentioned since the MD never thought it was a significant exposure.
1) If I was converting with those symptoms, especially the lip sores at days #33 and 34 would the test be positive by day 50?
2) What else can give lip sores that go away in 2 days without treatment?
3) Could my cut have been reopened enough for HIV to enter even if my cut was not bleeding at the time or would it have to be fresh and really bleeding?
4) Do my symptoms sound like seroconversion illness?
5) How would you quantify my risk?
As I mentioned, I will try again to reach Dr. HHH at a different time of the day. Does anyone know if he glances occasionally at this side of the forum to assure that misinformation is not being perpetuated?
Anyway, thank you so much in advance for your time and any help and reassurance you guys can give.
To make a terribly long story only very long, it was HIV/AIDS positive blood on a 34 hour old ½ inch paper cut which had possibly bled (not sure) for a few seconds initially. The patient had not been on any medication, but was not in the hospital because he was dying of AIDS, he was a trauma case. The paper cut was on the back of my finger near but not on the knuckle. I had removed my soiled gloves intending to put on another pair when I felt the splash.
I am concerned that the location of the cut, washing my hands, and bending my fingers in the 34 hours after the cut might have kept the wound open enough for HIV to enter. About 15 to 20 seconds after I felt the splash I got a standard sized hospital alcohol pad and wiped the area of the cut (70% isopropyl alcohol) and continued to care for the patient. (I'm estimating about 15 to 20 seconds to get to where the alcohol pads were.)
More than 48 but less than 72 hours later I saw the occupational safety MD who stated that I didn’t need PEP and that my wound was most likely closed enough by 34 hours. I also spoke to some of my colleagues who felt that most people wouldn’t even remember to worry about a paper cut let alone one that happened 34 hours earlier. They say the wound was closed enough and I’m fine, but I realize they are not experts in HIV transmission. Also, they might not be so unconcerned if it happened to them.
At about 12 days after the “exposure” started the march of symptoms: muscle aches off and on and headaches off and on and also swollen or tender lymph nodes in the neck off and on. I had maybe some tenderness in the armpits back and forth, not really constant. I have had these symptoms before around and during my period which did in fact come a few days after those symptoms started. The symptoms continued throughout my period, but they are still continuing now to a lesser extent.
Now what really scared me out of my wits was that on the 33rd day after the “exposure” I found a red painful maybe 3 mm sore on one side of my lower lip and maybe 2 or 3 very tiny ones on the other side of my lip. I think they were just at the edge of where the mucous membrane stops. The big one went away in 2 days without any treatment and I think the smaller ones went away before that. I’ve never had sores on my lips… ever. I thought they might have been from salty food. I tried to recreate them with more salty foods but they did not return. Since the “exposure” I have found that my temperature goes up to about 99.5 in the afternoon at work, and then by the time I am ready to go home usually about 4:00 pm it’s back down to normal. My feeling is that this is probably normal for me, but I had just never checked before.
I consulted with the same occupational safety MD who had initially evaluated me and explained my symptoms. She still did not think that I had been infected and offered me a test for “peace of mind.” The problem is that it was only day #50.
The test was negative for HIV-1/-2 at day 50. Further testing was not mentioned since the MD never thought it was a significant exposure.
1) If I was converting with those symptoms, especially the lip sores at days #33 and 34 would the test be positive by day 50?
2) What else can give lip sores that go away in 2 days without treatment?
3) Could my cut have been reopened enough for HIV to enter even if my cut was not bleeding at the time or would it have to be fresh and really bleeding?
4) Do my symptoms sound like seroconversion illness?
5) How would you quantify my risk?
As I mentioned, I will try again to reach Dr. HHH at a different time of the day. Does anyone know if he glances occasionally at this side of the forum to assure that misinformation is not being perpetuated?
Anyway, thank you so much in advance for your time and any help and reassurance you guys can give.
I understand your concern, because unlike most people here you were actually exposed to HIV.
However, your 7 week negative test rules out that you have been infected, so get that out of your mind.
Besides, nobody has ever been known to get infected from such an exposure.
Bottom line: trust your doctor, HIV is not your problem.
However, your 7 week negative test rules out that you have been infected, so get that out of your mind.
Besides, nobody has ever been known to get infected from such an exposure.
Bottom line: trust your doctor, HIV is not your problem.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I don't know how my friend 'regular joey' A.K.A Dr.Stupid concludes that you were exposed to HIV but the fact of the matter here is , your question has been answered by the best guys here (above) who really know their stuffs and they have told you that you never had a risk, so you should believe it rather than believing some one who knows nothing about HIV.
If you ask me, I'd say you are good to go, easy !
If you ask me, I'd say you are good to go, easy !
theoretically you have a risk of around .03 % or less, and testing at around 50 days ,especially if with symptoms most people would seroconvert, and you can breath now you are not infected... if it would help you calm down your nerves get tested at 3 months and i would expect tobe negative...
While I am not a physician, I will take a crack at answering some of these questions. You, of course, have already had advice from at least one physician, so I am not sure if this is going to help you in any meaningful way. But, with that said, here goes:
You asked: 1) If I was converting with those symptoms, especially the lip sores at days #33 and 34 would the test be positive by day 50? 2) What else can give lip sores that go away in 2 days without treatment?
Answer: I would imagine that yes, if indeed you were seroconverting, and these "sores" were a manifestation of your converting from a negative to a positive status, that yes, an antibody test would have shown positive by day 50. Seems logical to me that you would have indeed tested positive in the indicated time frame if you were presenting with ARS some 16 days previous. Perhaps someone a bit better qualified than I would like to answer this question, though.
As for sores in the mouth, nearly everyone gets these from time to time in life. Funny thing, I used to get them when I was a child, quite frequently, but they went away when I hit my teens. I went through a bit of an HIV scare myself some months ago, and, lo and behold, during this time I once again began to get ulcers in the mouth. Long story short, I eventually tested negative for HIV, and realize today that what I thought was a symptom of primary HIV infection was really a symptom of the anxiety and stress of worrying about HIV.
You asked: 4) Do my symptoms sound like seroconversion illness?
5) How would you quantify my risk?
Actually, not to me they don't, given what I have read about symptoms of primary HIV infection. The important point here, though, is that symptoms really do not mean much in terms of diagnosing HIV. I understand that it is only natural to worry, at times, and I also understand the tendency to attribute normal and minor changes in your body to HIV when one is in the grips of HIV anxiety.
Having said that, no, your "symptoms" do not sound much like symptoms of HIV infection.
Body temperature: just for the record, your body temperature will fluctuate during the day, sometimes dramatically. A 99.5 body temperature would not, I believe, qualify as a fever.
Swollen lymph nodes in the neck: It is extremely difficult to diagnose oneself with swollen lymph nodes. Thus, it is probably unwise to even try. You sound like you are in the medical profession, so you probably know what happens when you spend much time poking and prodding your lymph nodes: the notion that your lymph nodes are swollen becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Besides, if the swollen lymph nodes were as a result of primary HIV infection, the swelling would be generalized, or, would exhibit in *all* of your lymph nodes, not just some (like, say, only in the neck, or only in the armpit).
Mouth sores: almost certainly a sign of the undue stress you are feeling right now. Stress, as you probably know, helps to debilitate the immune system to a certain degree, thus allowing the formation of ulcers in the mouth (caused by, most likely, a previous exposure to HSV - which nearly everyone *has* been exposed to at some point in their lives).
As for quantifying your risk, that has already been done for you by someone many times more qualified than I - the doctor(s) you have already consulted. You had a small paper cut, which had closed up. It does not seem to me that, even if the paper cut had opened back up to a small degree, that this healing cut would have provided a suitable route into the body for HIV to enter and establish itself. On the face of it, it seems like the chance that this may have happened is, for all practical purposes, zero.
Seems to me that you are unduly worried about this. Cannot say I blame you, but try to take a step back, take a deep breath, and put all of this into perspective. I know, easy for me to say, but given your description of the events in question, I believe you are going to be just fine.
If you feel that you can't shake this anxiety, sure, go ahead and test again at the 3 month mark. If your negative test then does not allay your concerns, it will be time to think about what to do next (such as, say, visiting a therapist who will help you come to grips with this).
In the meantime, I wish you well and good luck in dealing with your anxiety. Certainly, anxiety management should be your primary concern right now, not HIV, as it does not sound like you had any realistic chance to have contracted it.
Take care.
You asked: 1) If I was converting with those symptoms, especially the lip sores at days #33 and 34 would the test be positive by day 50? 2) What else can give lip sores that go away in 2 days without treatment?
Answer: I would imagine that yes, if indeed you were seroconverting, and these "sores" were a manifestation of your converting from a negative to a positive status, that yes, an antibody test would have shown positive by day 50. Seems logical to me that you would have indeed tested positive in the indicated time frame if you were presenting with ARS some 16 days previous. Perhaps someone a bit better qualified than I would like to answer this question, though.
As for sores in the mouth, nearly everyone gets these from time to time in life. Funny thing, I used to get them when I was a child, quite frequently, but they went away when I hit my teens. I went through a bit of an HIV scare myself some months ago, and, lo and behold, during this time I once again began to get ulcers in the mouth. Long story short, I eventually tested negative for HIV, and realize today that what I thought was a symptom of primary HIV infection was really a symptom of the anxiety and stress of worrying about HIV.
You asked: 4) Do my symptoms sound like seroconversion illness?
5) How would you quantify my risk?
Actually, not to me they don't, given what I have read about symptoms of primary HIV infection. The important point here, though, is that symptoms really do not mean much in terms of diagnosing HIV. I understand that it is only natural to worry, at times, and I also understand the tendency to attribute normal and minor changes in your body to HIV when one is in the grips of HIV anxiety.
Having said that, no, your "symptoms" do not sound much like symptoms of HIV infection.
Body temperature: just for the record, your body temperature will fluctuate during the day, sometimes dramatically. A 99.5 body temperature would not, I believe, qualify as a fever.
Swollen lymph nodes in the neck: It is extremely difficult to diagnose oneself with swollen lymph nodes. Thus, it is probably unwise to even try. You sound like you are in the medical profession, so you probably know what happens when you spend much time poking and prodding your lymph nodes: the notion that your lymph nodes are swollen becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Besides, if the swollen lymph nodes were as a result of primary HIV infection, the swelling would be generalized, or, would exhibit in *all* of your lymph nodes, not just some (like, say, only in the neck, or only in the armpit).
Mouth sores: almost certainly a sign of the undue stress you are feeling right now. Stress, as you probably know, helps to debilitate the immune system to a certain degree, thus allowing the formation of ulcers in the mouth (caused by, most likely, a previous exposure to HSV - which nearly everyone *has* been exposed to at some point in their lives).
As for quantifying your risk, that has already been done for you by someone many times more qualified than I - the doctor(s) you have already consulted. You had a small paper cut, which had closed up. It does not seem to me that, even if the paper cut had opened back up to a small degree, that this healing cut would have provided a suitable route into the body for HIV to enter and establish itself. On the face of it, it seems like the chance that this may have happened is, for all practical purposes, zero.
Seems to me that you are unduly worried about this. Cannot say I blame you, but try to take a step back, take a deep breath, and put all of this into perspective. I know, easy for me to say, but given your description of the events in question, I believe you are going to be just fine.
If you feel that you can't shake this anxiety, sure, go ahead and test again at the 3 month mark. If your negative test then does not allay your concerns, it will be time to think about what to do next (such as, say, visiting a therapist who will help you come to grips with this).
In the meantime, I wish you well and good luck in dealing with your anxiety. Certainly, anxiety management should be your primary concern right now, not HIV, as it does not sound like you had any realistic chance to have contracted it.
Take care.
If I were you, I would:
1) Listen to your doctor. If he or she believes that you weren't at risk, then I would trust that.
2) Stop looking for and attepting to recreate symptoms. You will find them. This board is full of people that have every HIV symptom there is, including me. However, the VAST majority of all of us are negative.
3) Test again at 3 months if you can't let this go.
The bottom line is that you are HIGHLY unlikely to be HIV positive.
1) Listen to your doctor. If he or she believes that you weren't at risk, then I would trust that.
2) Stop looking for and attepting to recreate symptoms. You will find them. This board is full of people that have every HIV symptom there is, including me. However, the VAST majority of all of us are negative.
3) Test again at 3 months if you can't let this go.
The bottom line is that you are HIGHLY unlikely to be HIV positive.
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the HIV Prevention Community
Condoms are the most effective way to prevent HIV and STDs.
PrEP is used by people with high risk to prevent HIV infection.
Can I get HIV from surfaces, like toilet seats?
Can you get HIV from casual contact, like hugging?
Frequency of HIV testing depends on your risk.
Post-exposure prophylaxis (PEP) may help prevent HIV infection.
