Risk of gay frottage

Hi!

In rare occasion I have sex with other men. After a experience I became very anxious about syphilis. Therefore I´m moore careful now and only go for very safe sex, preferable zero risk. But the question is, what is zero risk?

The other day I meet a man and we didn´t have condoms so I did deny penetration, both oral and anal. We had some masturbation and we did frottage. He was on top on me and had his penis between my upper legs and simulated intercourse. Reading some of your answers in this forum this is zero risk activity for any STD since it´s no penetration but in some answers you can read that herpes and Syphilis is a risk after all. Regarding masturbation it´s seems always be zero risk.

On the described occasion he pushed the top of his penis towards my anus. There might have been a tuch of  surface of anus / penis. I'm not sure but in that case only for a second before I pulled out. He didn´t ejeculate and he was circumsised. He had no visable lesions on his penis and I saw it in bright daylight from close distance.

1. How can frottage be a risk if masturbation is not?
2. Reading my case, what is your opinion about the risk I took regarding any STD especally syphilis?
3 Where´s the limit between zero risk and a small risk in a case like mine? For example, where on the body is frottage i risk? Does the duration matter? I mean I read you answers that some bacterias must be kind of massaged into the bode otherwise the transmission wont happen.

And a question for my futere safe sex strategy;

3. In no penetration sex, does the risk increase if seamens is involved and does it matter where on the body you get the seamens?

Best regards
Jurgen

[Edward W Hook, MD]

Welcome back to the Forum.  Let me start by congratulating you on your commitment to safe sex, it will serve you well.  You are asking good but difficult questions.  I will try to answer.  

Before I get to your specific questions, let me make a general comment about HIV transmission.  The emerging concept of HIV transmission is that, for efficient transmission, the virus does not pass readily through intact skin but has to be "worked into" the tissue in such a way that it gets to its target cells for infection which are below the sin. Sex by nature involves friction and friction helps to work the virus into place to cause infection.  If exposed to HIV, the probability of infection therefore varies with, among other things, the thickness of the skin involved (genital skin is thinner than the skin of many other parts of the body and the skin on the palms and soles are the thickest of all), and the amount of friction involved (thus there is more friction for rectal intercourse than for vaginal intercourse and more friction for vaginal intercourse than oral intercourse).  These principles in turn are part of the reason that masturbation is always safe sex.  As for frottage. most frottage is really just a form of masturbation and therefore no risk. The reason I qualify this assessment however is because in the course of frottage of the sort you describe, the question becomes when does penetration occur and just where does the barrier between non-penetrative exposure and penetration occur.  I hope this makes sense.  I do not want this statement to lead to a bunch of paranoid “what if I....” type questions but provide it in an effort to help address your questions.  With that as background:

1.  See above
2.  Several STDs, particularly syphilis, herpes and HPV can be spread by direct contact with skin. Thus there is a slight risk and more if a lesion is present.  Syphilis in particular is a rare infection in the U.S. thus I would qualify your risk of syphilis as well as other STDs from the activity you describe as being very low.
3.  See above.  We’re talking about "shades of gray"
4.  Again see above. In general however, there is virtually no risk from getting another person's genital secretions on your skin anywhere.

I hop[e these comments are helpful to you.  EWH

[Jurgen40]

Thanks, that was a fast answer. I don´t know if it makes sense. Maybee I need some kind of clarification. It seems that the key question is weather some kind of penetration occured or not. If not it´s like masturbation. Is that correct?

I´m the only one who can really judge in my case. Knowing that he was not at all inside me would it be safe to have sex with my wife? Or should I get some Doxy to prevent STD?

[Edward W Hook, MD]

Correct.  If he was not inside of you, there is no risk and there is no need for doxycyline.  EWH