Searched Archives...Can't find woman to woman transmission

[scaredinFLA]

My wife and I ended up going to a swingers club out of curiousity.  There was a couple having sex next to us and my wife and the other female began touching each other.  My wife then stopped having sex with me and the other female stopped having sex with her partner and my wife and her began to make out.  There was no oral and no kissing.  Just mainly touching.  My wife sucked on her **** and she sucked on my wifes.  My wife was masturbating herself and the other woman was doing the same to herself.  The other woman then began to masturbate my wife and my wife began to masturbate her.  Our concern arises from the fact that maybe the other woman had some of her own vaginal fluids or some of her partners semen on her fingers when she began to masturbate my wife.  Also, my wife masturbated this woman and then masturbated herself again.  We are concerned that some of this fluid may have come in contact with my wifes vagina.  We have read all of the responses regarding mutual masturbation but most of them are either male/male or male/female.  Is this another case of no risk mutual masturbation or is this something more.  We are extremely nervous. We called the CDC and they gave us the usual run of the mill CYA "if fluids were exchanged then you are at risk" answer.  What was the real risk from this incident?  Are we talking about no risk here?  Does this warrant testing?    Please help us.  We don't want to have to stress for the next 12 weeks before we she can get tested.  

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

Female to female sexual transmission of HIV is rare, if it occurs at all. To my knowledge, there are few if any reported transmission events--or if reported, probably not proved as the only possible route of transmission.

The main STD (or STD-like) condition that is common in lesbians is bacterial vaginosis; exchanging vaginal secretions by hands or sex toys clearly can transmit BV.  HPV and HSV also are risks, but there is no evidence of significant risk for gonorrhea, chlamydia, HIV, or viral hepatitis.

By rumor, some swinger groups require recent and periodic HIV testing, and often STD testing, as entry criteria--at least good faith self-report, if not presentation of written evidence.  I recommend people avoid swinging groups without such requirements.

Good luck--  HHH, MD

[scaredinFLA]

Thank you for your response Dr.  Just a couple of direct questions...

So am I correct in the understanding of what you are saying...  

1.) That this activity did not pose a risk for HIV
2.) That you would not recommend testing for this "exposure" and if we did test it would be on emotional grounds, not clinical or scientific grounds.

3.) That this is a just your normal basic genital to hand to genital case where you have said before that HIV simply cannot be transmitted this way via indirect contact.

4.) That we should calm down and rest assured that my wife did not catch HIV from this incident.

Thank you for your help.

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

You have it right.

If you're goig to be this "scaredinFLA" after such an event, you need to rethink the issue of participation in swinging.  

[scaredinFLA]

Thank you so much for your response.  

We were unaware that participating in a one time curiousity like this would cause us (me) so much anxiety.  My wife in particular is not too concerned about it and has said that from everything she (we) has read that there was nothing to be afraid of.  You're response has made me feel much better.

As far as your comment regarding participating in encounters such as these we have decided that my anxiety about them is not worth it and have agreed to not pursue any more curiousities.  Intimate moments will be shared only between my wife and I in the future.  We are looking forward to having another child sometime in the future and this whole incident has set us back some.

On another note, I have recognized that I possibly have a severe problem with OCD and paranoia and have told my wife that I want to get help for it.  For the past week and a half this incident has consumed my life, albeit irrational.  I have been unable to function as an employee, a husband, and a father.  I am scheduled to meet with a mental health counselor this week to address this problem and hopefully never have to go through this ever again.  

Once again, thank you for your work and this wonderful forum.