Seroconversion Excpetion, high risk?

I am writing today because I now must here it from you.  I am a male that had unprotected sex with a female about 5 months ago.  Fellatio and sex.  The more I find out about her, the worse it is and I considerer her a high risk individual.  I am uncircumcised as well.  Her number has changed and I haven

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

I stopped reading your question after you said you had a negative test 100 days after exposure.  There was no need to read your symptoms; the test proves they cannot be due to HIV.  I would have deleted your question without response, but decided to retain it our of courtesy to those kind persons who already responded to your question (below).

ALL USERS PLEASE NOTE (AGAIN):  THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM MEANS WHAT IT SAYS:

"Questions that duplicate other frequent ones, for which abundant replies exist, and that have little educational value for other forum users, will be DELETED WITHOUT RESPONSE.  YOUR DONATION WILL NOT BE REFUNDED."  

HHH, MD

[Rob73!]

Dude from the top;

You've had a neg HIV test at the 100 day mark. Regardless of what generation the test is at that distance from exposures the test is 100% on the money. You're negative. End of. Period. In fact the whole "generation" question is slightly outdated and in your case; testing @ 100 days not even an issue!

I can't remember the exact statisical risk per contact for unprotected hetro sex, but for a blow job (receptive) it's somthing like 0.5 per 10,000 exposures. I don't want to get all Marvin Moral on you, but changing a phone number and no longer being in contact with this girl, doesn't make her a high risk individual.

You say you are pretty well clued up on HIV, if thats the case then you should understand that symptoms are NEVER an indication of HIV infection. The only way to know your status is through testing, which you've done at the right time and the result is neg.

Anxiety, will if you let it, manifest the symptoms you're currently experiencing. As for late seroconversion. Unlikey. AFAIK there have only ever been two recorded cases of late seroconversion. They made the headlines within the medical community simply because they were  and remain an a rarity.

I can understand where you are coming from and most posters on this forum will have gone through the same during their time in Worried Well Hell, I know i did. You'll get over it, if you can't i would advise seeking professional help to deal with your anxiety. Again, something that I did. And it worked!

I'm sure that the good Dr will tell you pretty much the same thing!

Good luck!

[Rob73!]

Apologies for posting a link from another site, but in Luke9's case i think it's relevant;

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/Fatigue/Archive/Comments/Q169457.html

Regards.

[shygirl1981]

you dont' have hiv. what are the sort of things you keep hearing about this girl?

[luke9]

Thank you guys for you comments.  I know stress can do some pretty awful things, but not cause you're nodes to swell.  Im just so worried about my throat.  It looks god awful and hurts! Its looked bad for the last 3 months but just last night it started to hurt bad and my tonsils are now most definately swollen.  
I recognized 1 of this girls friends at a dance club and started dancing with her.  She told me that the girl has been in jail before and she was pretty sure it was for drugs.  I asked the friend for her number so we could hang out (to get more info) and she said she couldnt because she knew I had been with that girl and that she is "dirty".  I said what does that mean, what does she have.  She said I dont know what she has, shes just dirty. Didnt sit to well.

[Rob73!]

Fact: If you haven't had your "nodes" diagnosed as being enlarged by a medical professional, it's very likely that they are not. Anyway, enlarged Lymph nodes because of Primary HIV infection would be generalised throughout the body. NOT localised around the neck and throat. If you are still worried consult an ENT professional.

If you are prodding and poking your neck trying to find your nodes, then you are alomost certainly going to aggravate them.

Reading your comments about your ex shag buddy; doing time for whatever reason doesn't automatically make you HIV+. I think you need to show some maturity here and move on. Anyway, getting second hand knowledge about what she may or most likely may not have isn't reliable and isn't worth the emotional investment, which you are currently fixating on.

Put this behind you and move on.

[WorriedUS]

Doc,

You mention that a single epidose of performing oral sex to someone has realistically no or less chances of receiving HIV. I know you are providing your response based on numerous clinical studies dones, however, do the researchers ever mention what is a "single" episode of oral sex?  After all, during the course of one night, there are multiple times that a partner performs fellatio to his/her partner in the span of 1 to 3 hours.  

Please clarify if possible.

THanks

WorriedUS

[Rob73!]

AFAIK, it's based on a per contact risk. As in each time oral is performed it counts as a seperate contact. Again, I'm going on information as I understand it. But Oral sex is generally considered to be a low risk activity

[anxietyX5]

he also asked this, but I would also like to know. Would you know if you were imune dificient enough to late seroconvert? The reason why I ask is because I have been worried for 3 months now, and probably drinking more than I should for the past month. And I just wanted to know if that could cause late seroconversion?

[luke9]

I did learn more and thank you for your replies.  I wanted to see if my risk is considered a high risk because on other sites, they keep saying if it is a high risk, then you really need to test out to 6 months, especially if symptoms persist.  Does anyone know where on the CDC website it talks about the "window period". I have seen it many times listed in the forums here that the CDC lists 3 months.  I guess the high risk thing is hard to understand.  I dont see a lot of info in the forums here on that so I guess 3 months is key no matter what risk.

[luke9]

Anxiety5, I have the exact same concern about knowing if you are immune deficient.  I strictly ask because my glands have been swollen so long.  Wouldnt they go down the battle is over?  Cant find any info on that.

[Brian123]

Luke9 ...you should really be called Anxiety6 for a screen name.
You are negative. zero, zilch,nada..for HIV.

I do believe MD HHH will now reiterate his famous quote to you:
"I suggest counseling. Not out of criticism, but out of compassion".

Move on with your life...do not let it consume you.

B.

[anxietyX5]

lymph node swelling due to HIV are not localized to one area, but all over the body (groin,neck, armpits). And people with HIV that have lymph node swelling, will continue to have it throughout the whole disease.

[worstnightmereever]

hi DOC
i don't think u r right about the 100% after 3 months
there's the eclipse window which can be 6 months
the virus replicates in the lymphatics
no detectable antibodies, p24 or pcr in the blood!!

[Brian123]

Wow!! I think MD HHH will find that comment somewhat offensive.
He has been in the field for over 30 years and works extensively in creating,publishing, and reviewing  articles related  to HIV and STD's.

I think you need to think long and hard before making such rash judgments on telling him that he is wrong.

And BTW,  NYS and many other states consider a 3 month test conclusive.
All of Canada does as well.  I highly doubt that a blanket statement such as yours merits a response from him to begin with.  I do not want to come off as brash here, but the man does indeed know what he is talking about on this forum.  Also, I doubt that NYS, Canada, and most of the US would jeopardize the safety and standards of HIV testing on their citizens.  This would not be terribly cost-effective if everyone was still in the "window" period and telling them they are indeed okay when they are not. You need to revisit the "eclipse" effect on human beings.
Besides, the last thing you are doing is causing more harm than good by posting that thread.  Now, someone may read that and go into a tizzy.  Thanks for you anxiety-increased thread to participants that read that statement....which indeed is FALSE.

[worstnightmereever]

i wasn't trying to be offensive.
i didn't make any judgement.
i've just read this article:
http://www.phppo.cdc.gov/mlp/pdf/labhiv/MBusch.pdf
where they explain the eclipse period (not the same as the window period).. it's in page 2..
ofcourse the doc has much much much much more experience
n that's why i decided to ask him.
regarding ur last paragraph.. i don't think this forum or any other forum's purpose should be to lower anxiety or whatever..

[Rob73!]

Dude, really. Check the archives in the HIV prevention forum. Trust me you need to!

The 6 month window period, is now only used under the strict guidance of a medical professional who feels that in that individual case it's warranted. Otherwise it's three months and more health professional who know more than I are going down to the 4-6 week window period.

AFAIK there have only ever been two documented cases of delyaed seroconversion TWO. Out of about 40 million. It made headlines  simply beacuse os the numbers involved.

This forum, while not designed to allay fears - this is a scary topic, the forum is designed to give information; relevant and in a fashion that non medical people can take in. remember; Knowledge is power.

Brian123. Good post mate!

[o_g]

Rob73: By the way, the 2 cases of delayed seroconversion u r talking about took more than 6 month and not between 3 & 6 months. However, nobody will ever know how much truth existed in stories which explained the cause of exposure and when it happened. Correct me if i am wrong.  

Worstnightmareever: Although this forum & doc work with science based facts, please be careful in posting such information as it can have negative impact on an already too worried worried well community..

Moreover, in reality, everyone here is scared so at times, it seems however true the information might be, it will be a good idea to somewhat filter it. And yes, the doc here really knows what he is talking about.

[luke9]

I hate to freak out guys but I am going to the doctor today.  My mouth looks like something off of aliens, in that my tounge is white and looks like cottage chese, my tonsils are swollen and have lots of white patches on them.  The sides of my neck hurt and are puffed out.  Gotta be glands on the side.  I am so scared.  All night I woke up with drenched bed sheets.  Bad night.  I know when the doc sees my mouth and throat he is goiong to ask about HIV.  I will tell him I tested negative at 14 weeks.  My tounge has looked like this for like 2 months, but just started hurting 2 days ago with the patches in the throat.  Does thrush put patches on your throat and make it hurt real bad?

[worstnightmereever]

hey dudes
6-8 weeks is ofcourse conclusive for the low risk worried wells here.. (ummm... the stripper in the next room farted.. while i was taking my pants off.. i'm feeling weak.. is my 28th month negative test conclusive??)
however..
if ur partner was hiv+, condom breakage, no condom... u name it..
all doctors online and "real" recommend at least 3 months testing.. some even recommend 6 months..

http://qa.hopkins-aids.org/forum/view_question.html?section_id=61&id=104520&category_id=91

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Current/Q178965.html

later

[anotherdummy]

o_g said:
"Worstnightmareever: Although this forum & doc work with science based facts, please be careful in posting such information as it can have negative impact on an already too worried worried well community.."

It almost seems obvious this person is trying to create more fear for people here by posting the same garbage in multiple threads don't you think?  What do they call these people on the net...trolls??

Really people, who would you listen to, a Dr. with 30+ years experience and internationally known?  Or a person who spells your as "ur"? haha..sheesh

[Brian123]

I agree with your 2nd paragraph.

B.

[o_g]

Dumbo: " Really people, who would you listen to, a Dr. with 30+ years experience and internationally known? Or a person who spells your as "ur"? haha..sheesh"

Well, it seems something I said made you so upset that "you" have gone to the extent of belittling people and their worries. Yes, even I believe the doctor. Why would I ask people to believe me [how can I even without any medical knowlege] when such expert opinion is available on this website? However, it is apparent "you are" still worried about the validity of your 8 week test which is making you still visit HIV forums or is it that you are doing it to help people through their window periods. Haven't you been already informed by the doc or haven't "you" checked "time to positive test" archives here which says 8 weeks is considered good enough in developed nation be it USA or Canada. Talk about trust!!!

Dude...don't throw stones at other people when your own house is made out of glass. Live and let live..If you can't respect or appericate other people's thoughts, you don't need to make fun either.

Everyone here has something in common which is FEAR of the unknown because no one other than the doc is an expert here. There is nothing I have mentioned in my posts which happened to be disrespectful towards anyone.

As far as "u r" goes, I assume you must be an elementary school english teacher. Get a freaking life!!!!!

[anotherdummy]

You totally misread my post.  It was not geared toward you but toward "worstnightmereever".

Please re-read the post.  Nonetheless, I forgive you....lol ;0)

[o_g]

What was your risk again - "toys & fingers" ;-). Talk about window period -  1 second

[o_g]

sorry in that case..really misunderstood

[anotherdummy]

Again, re-read my post.  Maybe I was not clear enough but worstnightmereever is simply posting his garbage to increase fear of people here.  It was not meant for you.  If you took time to read my reply you would see that.  No need to stoop to such levels that you are starting to.

good luck to you.

[anotherdummy]

No problem.  Hard to follow things on the net sometimes...especially when not thinking straight! :)

[o_g]

Now that makes you the 100th person who has advised meindirectly though)to see a mental health care provider.... hahahaha. Makes me wonder!!!!

[anotherdummy]

Been there!! and I am seeing one this Thursday...lol....what a life.

[worstnightmereever]

hi

1. well, i posted in 3 threads because i'm new here.
i tried to post, but then i couldn't see my posting
so i tried another thread.
maybe it takes time to show the posts?
ok??

2. "ur" .. gimme a break.. is gimme ok??? no?? gr8!!!

3. i'm not trying create more fear (actually i'm in the same position like u)
i'm frustrated.. every doctor is saying something else.. most agree that 3 months is 97-99% (3rd generation)
the physician (std clinic) who treats me told me that he had seen people who tested negative at 3-6 weeks n then tested positive later!!
that's why he tests everybody after 3 months.. n some after 6 months..

again
i'm not trying to create more fear
i'm not trying to pick up a fight
i'm just trying to understand
the doc here should be named Morpheus :) sorry doc
"i can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.."

[Brian123]

OK OK....
Time to stop the nonsense.
Cease the web-word fights.
All is forgiven on everyone.

:)

[worstnightmereever]

it's ok brian123
sorry dumbo, sorry o_g, sorry everyone!!
afterall.. we're in the same **** :)

[anotherdummy]

Sorry, I am not sorry.  It's obvious why you're here especially by your second last post re:"my doc has seen positive test after 6 weeks"

[worstnightmereever]

read this:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=4064.0

[monkeyflower]

Oh, I'm definitely going to believe some anonymous person posting about her supposed experiences on some forum, rather than actual experts in the field. Surely this stranger wouldn't *lie*. Jesus. You know NOTHING about this person. She could be lying about her experiences, you know... not to mention her gender, age, country of origin. Everything is questionable.

Come on. Think. Do you believe everything everyone tells you? Don't just react out of your own panic and anxiety.

[worstnightmereever]

3 months > 95%

http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic/drk/faq9.asp

"..not to mention her gender, age, country of origin"..

if u r in this forum.. u have no right judging her..

goodday

[worstnightmereever]

try this:
(medical book- 2006)!!

http://www.hivmedicine.com/textbook/testing.htm

under diagnostic window

6 weeks -about 80%

[Rob73!]

I wasn't going to get involved with this hoo-ha going here, but what the hell.........

Worst, you really aren't helping other posters on this forum. really. give it up.

You're going to find that broad agreemwnt on what the window period will will vary from Dr to Dr, country to country, etc. Thats just the way it is. Science in general is like. Hell, Pluto has just been "downgraded" from a planet! That how much variation the scientific community deals with.

A lot of longtime posters to this forum; Monkeyflower, Brian123 and Skerd68 know as much as most layman (and more than I) will know - without getting into the territory of the experienced medical MD\GP. So when Dr H says you should be good if you test at the 4-6 and especially after 6 weeks. Then that's the word of a guy who has been there, seen it done it, wrote some research papers on it and probably wears the t-shirt when he replies to all of us!

Not trying to dig you out as I'm sure you haven't come on here with the intention of being a nusiance, but chill out. Listen to what people are saying.

I remember just how scared i was about having an HIV test. I just wanted to crawl up and die, so I came here and saw a lot of sense. My first test (DUO) was done at the 28 day mark, by a Dr who'se clincial expertise was in Mens sexual health. And he was convinced that 28 days is enough time get a result which was relaible. In fact when I went back at the 3 month mark rapid blood test. Determine), my first question was "what chance is there of this test being positive?" His answer? " Would be the first time I've seen that happen in 5 years and about 3,000 tests. So unlikey!" Guess what? It came back neg.  Though i still have the odd anxiety attack and sometimes boubt the validity of the results, when I do i come here. though I don't really *know* anyone here, it makes me see sense.

What I'm sayin is this; ask your questions, debate the answers, but try and be a little more open to the fact that others know more than you.

[Rob73!]

worst, I've just read the link you posteed to aidsmeds.com. Man. I'm in total agreement with Monkeyflower. That story just doesn't add up. Not one bit. Instead of looking at the words you would do well to read the posts!

[Red Fish 88]

I too had the same thing.  Burning sensation in the throat and a white tongue that burned as well(for 3 months).  Went to ENT Dr. who diagonsed me with oral thrush.  It freaked me out a little when he told me.  What he did say was that he sees healthy adults without hiv who have thrush on a regular basis and not to worrie.
He said that if hiv is the cause of the thrush that it happens latter in the illness and I would have tested positive. My negative results proves that hiv is not the cause of the thrush.

So, don't freak out about the possibility of thrush.

Red