Teak, and other experts help please!

3 weeks ago I went for a massage and got a handjob from a lady there with a happen ending. at the same time I penestrated her vagina with my fingers (Index and middle) for 10 mins (not remember exactly). I have been surfing this forum concerning mutual fingering which has eased me very much. I also called the lady to check her condition concerning HIV, but she has no idea (never check before) and insists that she never had other sex with clients at work except for only fingering.  I called her to confirm it for several times and my words worried her and she went for a check and SHE TOLD ME SHE GOT TESTED HIV POSITIVE. At the same time she cried and said again that she really never had other sex activities at work other than fingering her client; and this has freaked me out. I am really typing this with trembling hands.  If fingering is safe, how could this happen? I really can wait to have myself tested, even only for 3 weeks after such exposure.  Teak, and others pls. help!!!

[verypanic]

What most worry me is her emphasized she only fingered her clients at work, and I don't think she lied since she got the result +.  But does this mean that she got HIV though fingering her clients. And thus my chance to be infected by mutual fingering is actually high?  plus that i also got a low fever this week (exactly happened in the 3rd week), which really freaks me out..... PLEASE, HELP ME with your professional knowledge!!!

[joggen]

She didn't get HIV from fingering and neither will you.

You don't know her sex life outside of the massage parlor, she could have contracted it from her regular partner who she thought was safe, she could have been a street prostitute before her current job, who knows? She didn't get it from being fingered.

And you don't even know if her positive result was confirmed with a Western Blot.

[verypanic]

Thank you, Joggen, your response ease me a little bit. But I am still freaking out, and with only 3 weeks I know it is NOT the right time for testing.

I believe this is the first test she ever got and she's really desperate after knowing this. and i don't know how and where she got tested as I dared not asking her in her current condition.  Well but I do know she has been doing this for around 4 months and she's 21, she also has no boyfriend (which I understand as no sex partner), if she's not lying understand such condition (which I think she told the truth).
I penestrated her with the index and middle, and i do remember I did have a injury with the nearby thumb by a crab pincer 3/4 hours ago; a small hole, it hurts but without bleeding, but I could see some other transparent fluid getting out when I pushed the wound.  Very sure that my index finger with her vaginal fluid has touched the wound on the thumb because the finger tip of my index touch exactly the injured place when I grasp my fingers.  

Put these all togehter, I really can help to think that she got it from fingering and the risk of mine is also high.  Really sad

[verypanic]

and she's not answering the phone any more (swithed off)......

Is there really no a single case in the world that HIV could be transmitted through such way or we just don't know it?!

[joggen]

You don't know her sexual history and you don't know if she received a positive result on a Western Blot. She could have had a false positive. Or, she could have been infected when she was 16 and is just learning that now.

There are many more plausible explanations to this, her getting HIV from fingering is not one of them.

[joggen]

I can't say I blame her, you shouldn't have been calling her 'several times' about her status.

Nobody has ever contracted HIV from fingering and such transmission is not possible biologically.

[verypanic]

Thank you Joggen, still in great great panic as couldn't reach her for more information... What should I do now...... really couldn't face the family.......

[joggen]

fingering
by jttt, Jun 24, 2009 04:27PM
Hello Drs.,
My questions is inregards to my risk and exposure to the HIV virus.  About a month and a half ago, this boy and I had an intimate  moment but no sex ocurred. He fingered me in my vagina for about 5 minutes or so while we were making out. That is all that occurred. I went to get a rapid HIV test at 5 weeks and a couple of days. The results came back negative. Are the test results reliable? Was my exposure even at risk of HIV. I have read the forum regarding this question, but hope to get an answer for my experience. Also, does fingering lead to other STD's? Thank you for your time and help.


by H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D., Jun 24, 2009 05:33PM
Welcome to the HIV forum.  However, I really cannot tell you anything you haven't already learned by reading other threads.  HIV has never been known to be transmitted by fingering.  If this is your only potential HIV exposure, you did not need testing.  

As for other STDs, there is a small risk for HPV and an even smaller one for herpes.  But these are too unlikely to worry about or to require testing.

Probably around 95% of newly infected people have positive HIV antibody tests at 5 weeks.  Since your risk was zero and you did not need testing anyway, you do not need any further testing.

Best wishes--  HHH, MD

[joggen]

smal paper cut - vagina
by dblben, May 19, 2009 12:34PM
I have entered my finger into a vagina and to noticed a small paper right cut after I pulled out. The cut must have been recent since I haven't noticed it before, it looked quite red so I assume that more than just the upper skin layers were cut. However, right afterwards I tried hard to suck blood out of the wound but nothing came.

Is there any risk to get HIV from this?

Thank you.


by H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D., May 19, 2009 01:22PM
Welcome to the HIV prevention forum.  But I have to assume you didn't follow the advice to read the prominent "Disclaimer - Please Read Before Posting" or, if you did, to follow its recommendation to look for similar questions.  Innumerable discussions on this forum have pointed out that fingering isn't a risk for HIV, regardless of nicks or cuts on the fingers.  Nobody in the world has ever been known to catch HIV that way.  Any anyway, there certainly is no risk without a more open wound than you describe.  Finally, if you are in the US or other industrialized country, the chance any particular woman has HIV is very low, well under 1 chance in 1,000.

You can use the search button and enter "fingering" or "hand-genital" to find many discussions of the same issues.

[verypanic]

Thanks again, Joggen, I appreciate really a lot for your efforts.

I read a lot including the your last post concerning the answer for Dr. HHH.  But I am really freaking out (putting all the information about her) thinking about the fact that she got it and my high risk of getting it as well.

And then i have a second thought that maybe you just try to cheer me up to help me get through another 3 or 5 weeks, as you might think that i would go for a test anyway by that time, and everything would be clear then.

Sorry for my second thought. Just cann't help it.

[joggen]

What should you do? Educate yourself about HIV transmission.

If you search this forum or the expert forum (posts above), you will see that sexual transmission of HIV is ONLY through unprotected vaginal or anal sex, NOT FINGERING.

[verypanic]

The feeling that under such frustrating situation I could still get support from helpful persons such like you has eased me a lot. Thousand thanks.

This forum really gave me the strength, but the other websites  (also seems professional) including CDC are really scaring when reading through!

But do you suggest me to have a test under my situation (as she's +)? and if yes when?

[joggen]

I am just giving you the facts, it's up to you how you want to deal with them.

HIV is transmitted through unprotected vaginal or anal sex (PENILE penetration), sharing IV drug works, or mother-to-child. Those are the only ways it is possible to contract it. Since you don't fall into any of those categories, it should be no concern to you that a massage worker claims to have tested positive.

You honestly believe a sex worker has never had penetrative sex with clients? You don't have "all the information about her." You got a handjob from her and you pestered her on the phone a few times. Do you seriously think she is a virgin? Your anxiety isn't letting you think straight.

[joggen]

It doesn't matter if she's positive, you didn't have a risk. No risk = no test needed.

[verypanic]

Joggen, really appreciate it, I know it might not be easy, but I will try to move on (the fever started since monday is also part of the reason, but I got the fever before knowing her status).

[joggen]

Good to hear. Stay off the internet or you will be back in panic mode- there is a lot of misleading information out there.

[verypanic]

Teak, finanally you are here, pls. help!

I appreciate Joggen's efforts, which have eased me a lot a lot. But I still want to get YOUR professional opinion.

What would be your comments based on my senario, which I think is different from other posts with unknown situation about the massage lady, who in this case is tested +!

Thanks Teak
And Thans to Joggen again.

[Teak]

No risk...

[verypanic]

Thank you Teak, because most of the reason why I am still freaking out is the concern to the family.

Thank you guys for the excellent work!!!

[verypanic]

Teak, are you there?

I am freaking out again.

Exactly it is 10weeks after the exposure. I really couldn't wait until 3 months and went for a test yesterday morning.  The result is supposed to be available yesterday afternoon, but I couldn't get it yesterday. And this morning the docotor asked me to test again and told me that the result was very suspicious and said that they have also retest my blood sample again with the same method, again very suspicious.  the method is called Determine HIV(1+2)?? Obviously it is not Elisa, as they asked me to test again with Elisa method.

I am really freaking out now as still need to wait for another 2 days for the result. How could this possible be since it was a no risk exposure? Pls. help...

[verypanic]

Teak, help!!!

[Vance2335]

You don't have HIV from this exposure. If you tested positive they would have told you and had a Western Blot done. I suspect that somthing happened with the sample or the result was indeterminate.

LISTEN CLOSLEY...YOU HAD NO RISK. YOU TESTED FOR NO REASON AND NOW YOU ARE FREAKING OUT BECAUSE THE TEST WAS NOT STRAIGHT UP NEGATIVE. This is what happens sometimes when people test for no reason, they can get an indeterminate result or even have a false positive.

[verypanic]

I do really hope so too.... :-(

The Dr. said that Western Blot would be the next step if the Elisa would turn out to be +; and this is the standard procedure.

[verypanic]

The Elisa (3rd generation) result is - ;
Abbot twice "very suspicious) and Elisa once - , with this result, it is really confusing to me now. The Dr.  recommended to go back for re-check again in a month.
How could this be??!!

[Teak]

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