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Teak
Hey Teak. I was just wondering why 3 months is considered conclusive. Does this time frame allow for a little conservatism, or is it considered to be the point at which most will turn positive? Please educate me on this. As you know I am freaking out thinking that I tested too early. Thanks Teak.
Hi there my friend. I hope life is treating you well these days.
In response, yes I do know that I am dealing with an irrational fear since I have tested at reasonably conservative dead lines. It is the waht ifs, the rare cases, and the mysterious nature of the disease that keeps me clinging to the fear. At this point it seems like I have slipped into some sort OCD surrounding the issue. I have not, however, (as you pointed out earlier) find solace in therapy. The only other alternative I have is prescriptions, but for personal reasons, I don't want to go down that avenue.
If there is no need to test out to six months, I believe that the medical community has a responsibility to update their information. Just look at the stress that the suggestion of it has put me through. It seems irresponsible to put someone through such emotional distress if not warranted. If they are just practicing CYA, then they should let the stipulations surrounding the need for a 6 month test be known (chemo patient, IDU, etc.).
Peek, you are so right about not finding comfort searching the internet. For anyone reading this, you should not look for symptoms on the net. I swear, everytime I do I litterally get sick to my stomach. Don't do it. This site is OK. All of the others suck. I actually came across a site (I won't post the link because I don't want to cause panic) that said that rated transmission rates for a female engaging in unsafe sex with a positive as 1/2. I have seen suggestions of window periods of longer than 2 years. I have seen all kinds of rediculous stuff on the net. Stay away from it. I don't even go that route anymore. I
In response, yes I do know that I am dealing with an irrational fear since I have tested at reasonably conservative dead lines. It is the waht ifs, the rare cases, and the mysterious nature of the disease that keeps me clinging to the fear. At this point it seems like I have slipped into some sort OCD surrounding the issue. I have not, however, (as you pointed out earlier) find solace in therapy. The only other alternative I have is prescriptions, but for personal reasons, I don't want to go down that avenue.
If there is no need to test out to six months, I believe that the medical community has a responsibility to update their information. Just look at the stress that the suggestion of it has put me through. It seems irresponsible to put someone through such emotional distress if not warranted. If they are just practicing CYA, then they should let the stipulations surrounding the need for a 6 month test be known (chemo patient, IDU, etc.).
Peek, you are so right about not finding comfort searching the internet. For anyone reading this, you should not look for symptoms on the net. I swear, everytime I do I litterally get sick to my stomach. Don't do it. This site is OK. All of the others suck. I actually came across a site (I won't post the link because I don't want to cause panic) that said that rated transmission rates for a female engaging in unsafe sex with a positive as 1/2. I have seen suggestions of window periods of longer than 2 years. I have seen all kinds of rediculous stuff on the net. Stay away from it. I don't even go that route anymore. I
Honestly speaking your reply does make sense but more so from an outsider's perspective who has not lived in misery for 3 months to know ehther he/she is positive or not. Poorly trained nurses/counselors sow enough seed of doubt in a WW's mind till he reaches 3 months that he wants to unreasonably go for 6 months.
Personally, I find it small talk when anyone says go get tested at 6 months for "peace of mind". Because, if the person really thinks that this suggestion is going to help the WW, he/she is completely wrong. It is like telling him that do not get out of suicidal mode. I know you are fore a health care profession and have been giving wonder advices over here for long but try to look at things from the other side of the line(where people were genuinely at risk and tested negative at 3 months).
Other day I also posted a link from WHO whereby WHO states that window period is 14-21 days. 3 months wait is enough to make a normal person do crazy things. 6 months - Many won't last to do any more crazy things. Sad but true...
Personally, I find it small talk when anyone says go get tested at 6 months for "peace of mind". Because, if the person really thinks that this suggestion is going to help the WW, he/she is completely wrong. It is like telling him that do not get out of suicidal mode. I know you are fore a health care profession and have been giving wonder advices over here for long but try to look at things from the other side of the line(where people were genuinely at risk and tested negative at 3 months).
Other day I also posted a link from WHO whereby WHO states that window period is 14-21 days. 3 months wait is enough to make a normal person do crazy things. 6 months - Many won't last to do any more crazy things. Sad but true...
Listen up brother.. Its my understanding that you are from the UK. There has not been a single recorded incidence of delayed seroconversion beyond 12 weeks in UK for past 10 years. Now, that will take a hell lot to beat & I am 100% sure that you aren't made up of something special from SmallVille to outdo that.
Dude...you are talking about World Health Organization. It does not get bigger than that for it to be a mistake. 3 months is official testing guideline to cover up for worst case scenarios. I hate this sentence but need to use it to cover a brighter aspect - "Nothing is 100% in medicine". This can be also metaphorically be related to variability of hiv transmission/host immune/pre-existing conditins".
To reach the 100% mark of knowing conclusive test result whether transmission took place or not keeping in perspective all the variable factors, they say 3 months.
To reach the 100% mark of knowing conclusive test result whether transmission took place or not keeping in perspective all the variable factors, they say 3 months.
The 3 month guideline is to cover people that have had a NEW possible exposure to give their body enough time if they have been infected to produce enough antibodies for the HIV tests to pick up.
Since you won't be convinced any other way, you'll just have to test again. I'm so sorry to see you're still tortured by this.
Normally, I look forward to your posts as great source of neutrlizing irrationality that some times come in this forum. However, I wopuld have to poin thiat repeat testing suggesstions after 3 months test really do not help anybody.
Remember Dobber, I hope he is doing Ok now but he went in such a downward spiral that even after testing out beyong 6 months he was still posting at thebody.com to get further re-assurance from Dr. Bob.
A lot of people fall into same testing trap over and over again and find it difficult to get out. You have to remember that arthritis is not treated with insulin. Similarly, a mental health issue can not be treated with repeat testing. 3 months is where the line is drawn by most conservative of agencies for hiv testing and testing beyond that is really a mental health issue. I really think advising people to test beyond 3 months is plain wrong. But, that is what I think. I have plenty respect for your opinions but this is 1 thing I disagree.
Remember Dobber, I hope he is doing Ok now but he went in such a downward spiral that even after testing out beyong 6 months he was still posting at thebody.com to get further re-assurance from Dr. Bob.
A lot of people fall into same testing trap over and over again and find it difficult to get out. You have to remember that arthritis is not treated with insulin. Similarly, a mental health issue can not be treated with repeat testing. 3 months is where the line is drawn by most conservative of agencies for hiv testing and testing beyond that is really a mental health issue. I really think advising people to test beyond 3 months is plain wrong. But, that is what I think. I have plenty respect for your opinions but this is 1 thing I disagree.
What test should I take to take for the earliest detection? ANd how many weeks should I wait?
I also don't think that repeated testing is helpful, but this particular poster has already been to the shrink without that avenue being of any help. He posts fairly frequently, although nowhere near as frequently as others. He also seems pretty rational except for the fear that he tested too soon.
Much as I doubt it will help, if he tests again, is negative, and he still has "the fear", he might be more amenable to trying a psychiatric approach again.
I like this particular poster, b/c he seems to have some awareness that he's being irrational in his fear. He's fixated on an incorrect suggestion that he should come back at 6 months, and he's found enough outdated and absurd "information" to seem to back it up.
I'm so sorry this has happened to him, and wish he could get some sort of peace about it. Coming here is not helping. Scouring the internet is not helping. If he states he's afraid he tested too soon, and tests again at whatever mark he feels is appropriate and STILL has irrational fears, then he might think again about other avenues of treatment for his anxiety.
That's all I meant by suggesting he test again. Eventually, most of the worst of the repeating testers seem to finally come to some sort of understanding that HIV is not their problem. Some of them, it takes a year. Some less. I'm hoping it takes farfromperfect less than that.
Much as I doubt it will help, if he tests again, is negative, and he still has "the fear", he might be more amenable to trying a psychiatric approach again.
I like this particular poster, b/c he seems to have some awareness that he's being irrational in his fear. He's fixated on an incorrect suggestion that he should come back at 6 months, and he's found enough outdated and absurd "information" to seem to back it up.
I'm so sorry this has happened to him, and wish he could get some sort of peace about it. Coming here is not helping. Scouring the internet is not helping. If he states he's afraid he tested too soon, and tests again at whatever mark he feels is appropriate and STILL has irrational fears, then he might think again about other avenues of treatment for his anxiety.
That's all I meant by suggesting he test again. Eventually, most of the worst of the repeating testers seem to finally come to some sort of understanding that HIV is not their problem. Some of them, it takes a year. Some less. I'm hoping it takes farfromperfect less than that.
I ahve the same problem as farfromperfect. I tested negative at exactly three months. my exposure was Jan 7 07 and tested April 9 07. I wore a condom and it did not fail. But my exposure was in Africa. For some reasons i could not get HIV out of my head. Now i'm scared that I am a late serconverter and if i test at 6 months it will be positive. I know my immune system is not compromised but I just ca't get it out of my head I feel for you far I know what your going through. Sources that say HIV testing should be done out to 6 months really need to reword what they write. They should say that people who take 6 months are people with compromised immune systems. When I take my 6 month test hopefully negative i know I can over come this problem.
1 more thing. Don't want to bring it up but have as this gives solace to anxious ppl. Forget WHO, do you think Massachusettes medical advisors are thinking oput of their asses giving ppl cleant chit after a 6 week negative. Although Dr. H's advice becomes descriminatory between high/low risk individuals but he does say 6-8 weeks test to rest easy. Do you think any responsible Doc can say anything like that even if there is minutest of risk. He agrees with Mass policy too.
Now if institutes/doctors say 6 weeks is good enough, that means, it will have some extra padding of time to cover worst case scenarios also. So, that pretty much brings us back to what WHO says that Window period is 14-21 days. Don't it??
Now if institutes/doctors say 6 weeks is good enough, that means, it will have some extra padding of time to cover worst case scenarios also. So, that pretty much brings us back to what WHO says that Window period is 14-21 days. Don't it??
6 months testing post protected sex - how much more insane can that get?
It does not matter whether it was in Africa, China, Bulgaria or anywhere. Do you understand the difference between "PROTECTED" & "'UN' - 'PROTECTED'" coz it surely don't seem to. And you trying to relate your condition to someone who had a genuine risk. Dude, you lose out in the 1st round of this race itself as you never even had a risk for heaven's sake.
It does not matter whether it was in Africa, China, Bulgaria or anywhere. Do you understand the difference between "PROTECTED" & "'UN' - 'PROTECTED'" coz it surely don't seem to. And you trying to relate your condition to someone who had a genuine risk. Dude, you lose out in the 1st round of this race itself as you never even had a risk for heaven's sake.
Thanks for your kind words. I just got back from my "vacation", where the first thing I did after arriving was to strain my back. I spent 4 days in bed, and flew back yesterday to find my car with a flat tire at the airport.
I still have every hope and faith that you'll get through your troubles without it getting as bad as what happens to some of the others. You have a good head on your shoulders, and once you get past this you'll do just fine.
Do you need my list of other things to worry about? I posted it last month here somewhere. There are plenty of realistic things that could impact all of our lives in the near future. All joshing aside, these are some troubled times.
I still have every hope and faith that you'll get through your troubles without it getting as bad as what happens to some of the others. You have a good head on your shoulders, and once you get past this you'll do just fine.
Do you need my list of other things to worry about? I posted it last month here somewhere. There are plenty of realistic things that could impact all of our lives in the near future. All joshing aside, these are some troubled times.
Testing recommendations are tricky, if you ask 5 different experts you will get 5 different answers.
But I have never ever heard anyone recommend a serology test at 2 or even 3 weeks.
At that point doctors usually give p24 or an RNA-PCR test, if they suspect infection.
So I think that there is a mistake on the WHO website.
Somebody just confused the timeline of ARS with the timeline of testing.
But I have never ever heard anyone recommend a serology test at 2 or even 3 weeks.
At that point doctors usually give p24 or an RNA-PCR test, if they suspect infection.
So I think that there is a mistake on the WHO website.
Somebody just confused the timeline of ARS with the timeline of testing.
You said: "Testing recommendations are tricky, if you ask 5 different experts you will get 5 different answers.But I have never ever heard anyone recommend a serology test at 2 or even 3 weeks.At that point doctors usually give p24 or an RNA-PCR test, if they suspect infection.So I think that there is a mistake on the WHO website.Somebody just confused the timeline of ARS with the timeline of testing."
Me Says:
But, who is talking about testing recommendations. The information on WHO page is pertaining to "window period" & not testing recommendations. If you read what I have written above then you will see that I abide by 12 weeks conclusive as far as testing goes. But, rather than jumping the gun, if you try to feel the sentiment of this thread, the discussion is on the lines of why a person should feel confident in a 12 week result... Get it???
Me Says:
But, who is talking about testing recommendations. The information on WHO page is pertaining to "window period" & not testing recommendations. If you read what I have written above then you will see that I abide by 12 weeks conclusive as far as testing goes. But, rather than jumping the gun, if you try to feel the sentiment of this thread, the discussion is on the lines of why a person should feel confident in a 12 week result... Get it???
The confusing part is that when people say "window period" they usually mean a period while the serology test is negative.
But you are probably right, it sounds like here they mean just in general the incubation period.
But you are probably right, it sounds like here they mean just in general the incubation period.
I have a detailed graph with me which I found out while searching th net which talk about different tests and timings to detect antibodies. I downloaded it from some country's CDC website but will be difficult to locate now. It shows antibodies reach detectable level for normal people by 2 months with 1st generation ELISA and when using 3rd generation ELISA, the antibody detection time is reduced to 21 days. What I am trying to convey here is that the official window period is set to 3 months because it also involves some extra timing padding/precautions that policy makers have to take. Our job is to be consevative and follow the well defined policies.
Peek, I am so sorry to hear of your troubles. I am sure you have a round of good karma coming your way. Thanks for trying to help me as usual. You are a true friend. :)
Wow, I really seem to stir up some debate when I post. Listen guys here is the reason I am worried. I tested @3 months and got good news....great! The thing is that like Dobber, if any of you remember him, I still have crazy stuff going on with my body. Symptoms how do I hate thee? Let me count the ways. Over the past 5 months:
Tingling, burning, pain in hands and feet--week 1
Diarhea--off and on throughout
Mouth ulcers--Week 1, 2
Fatigue--off and on, still remains
Strange migrating pain throughout body, feels like bruises (no visible bruise)--comes and goes, mostly comes
Sore throat--week 6
Patichae???--Those that I have showed say these are normal and come with age and sun exposure, I never noticed them before
Strange temperature readings--usually 96.5 in morning, sometimes gets up to 98.8. No fever to speak of
Blister on bottom of right foot--no apparent reason--week 14
Blood blister on left hand--no apparent reason--week 10
Confusion--Have always felt a little foggy LOL.
Pain in groin--possibly from searching for swollen nodes, which I do feel--week 10-14
General feeling of unwellness--ever since first day after unGodly sex act
The fd up migrating pain still remains, I can't figure out if these petichae have always been here, but I notice the heck out of them now, Fatigue kicks my butt from time to time (however I am a student anf full time worker). Most of the other stuff is gone. I could go on and on about lymph nodes but to be honest I have always had pronounced nodes in my neck and shoddy nodes in groin. I am skinny too, so that makes them easy to feel. But you know it does scare me. Oh yeah, I can't figure out what the hell is up with my body temp.
These are the reasons I can't shake my HIV fear.
Yes I feel guilty as hell, yes I have had anxiety like never before, but damit, I don't think that could do all of those things to me.
I went to doctor about the blister on my foot. I thought maybe secondary syphilus. He said no didn't even look close. I made him give me doxy anyways. I wonder if doxy is screwing with me? Any opinions on that?
Tingling, burning, pain in hands and feet--week 1
Diarhea--off and on throughout
Mouth ulcers--Week 1, 2
Fatigue--off and on, still remains
Strange migrating pain throughout body, feels like bruises (no visible bruise)--comes and goes, mostly comes
Sore throat--week 6
Patichae???--Those that I have showed say these are normal and come with age and sun exposure, I never noticed them before
Strange temperature readings--usually 96.5 in morning, sometimes gets up to 98.8. No fever to speak of
Blister on bottom of right foot--no apparent reason--week 14
Blood blister on left hand--no apparent reason--week 10
Confusion--Have always felt a little foggy LOL.
Pain in groin--possibly from searching for swollen nodes, which I do feel--week 10-14
General feeling of unwellness--ever since first day after unGodly sex act
The fd up migrating pain still remains, I can't figure out if these petichae have always been here, but I notice the heck out of them now, Fatigue kicks my butt from time to time (however I am a student anf full time worker). Most of the other stuff is gone. I could go on and on about lymph nodes but to be honest I have always had pronounced nodes in my neck and shoddy nodes in groin. I am skinny too, so that makes them easy to feel. But you know it does scare me. Oh yeah, I can't figure out what the hell is up with my body temp.
These are the reasons I can't shake my HIV fear.
Yes I feel guilty as hell, yes I have had anxiety like never before, but damit, I don't think that could do all of those things to me.
I went to doctor about the blister on my foot. I thought maybe secondary syphilus. He said no didn't even look close. I made him give me doxy anyways. I wonder if doxy is screwing with me? Any opinions on that?
You have to trust me on this and I speak from my own experience. I faced each of those things and more(don't want to go in details). You may feel it has nothing to do with anxiety but that is not true. I am not sure if anyone around here can provide you with a good answer which will satisfy you for more than 2 days before worry sets back in.
I would have suggested on psychiatric treatment but you have already discarded it as it was doing no good to you. You have to give it time. Things do not change overnight. You have to realize that you were in deep physical and mental strain for 3 freaking months and that has got depression set in you. I suggest before further re-thinking on psychiatic help which is definitely needed, you should shell out some money and go talk to a HIV specialist(not regular docs, not nurses). An HIV specialist only.Try discussing it with him your tests in an appointment w/o showing any inclination of further testing. See what he says and if he is for real he can not recommend you further testing. Hopefully, he is not a doctor who gets commission on prescribing tests.
You have to understand that a policy on testing guidelines has been set for 12 weeks with some thought behind it. Good Luck..
I would have suggested on psychiatric treatment but you have already discarded it as it was doing no good to you. You have to give it time. Things do not change overnight. You have to realize that you were in deep physical and mental strain for 3 freaking months and that has got depression set in you. I suggest before further re-thinking on psychiatic help which is definitely needed, you should shell out some money and go talk to a HIV specialist(not regular docs, not nurses). An HIV specialist only.Try discussing it with him your tests in an appointment w/o showing any inclination of further testing. See what he says and if he is for real he can not recommend you further testing. Hopefully, he is not a doctor who gets commission on prescribing tests.
You have to understand that a policy on testing guidelines has been set for 12 weeks with some thought behind it. Good Luck..
I think you should take some comfort in that Dobber, just like you, never tested positive for HIV.
Which should tell you that you are far from being alone.
It should tell you that it is possible to be very sick and feel very weird and AIDS-like and just not have HIV.
There are other infectious diseases out there.
Get well, man.
Which should tell you that you are far from being alone.
It should tell you that it is possible to be very sick and feel very weird and AIDS-like and just not have HIV.
There are other infectious diseases out there.
Get well, man.
You guys are so cool. I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support. It means the world to me. I don' have anyone to talk to about this stuff. I really, really, appreciate your words of encouragement. I wish all of you the best and I am sure good karma will come your way. You are all in my prayers.
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