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Undetectable HIV antibodies ?
Hi,
Is it true that there have been handful cases in HIV history when a HIV infected person hasnt ever tested positive on HIV antibody tests because they havent produced enough HIV antibodies although they were hiv positive which was found by other tes?. Anyone with high knowledge please?
Is it true that there have been handful cases in HIV history when a HIV infected person hasnt ever tested positive on HIV antibody tests because they havent produced enough HIV antibodies although they were hiv positive which was found by other tes?. Anyone with high knowledge please?
Dear Sir,
I need your help, actually I live in London, one day on 22/12/11. I was so upset and I did a biggest mistake of my life, I had sex with sex worker, it was with condom, but before doing virginal sex and to put condom on my penis, she touched my penis with her *****, and then put condom on my penis, I was worried I went to NHS Gum clinic on 09 day of expected exposure and did HIV test. And same time gum clinic NHS ask me to take course for hepatitis, and give me an injuction for hepatitis, and tiled me to come back for second injuction after a week, after three days of injuction I was reading symptoms of HIV (11or12days) after sex suddenly I saw a small straight rash on my shoulder, I become so stress, and then I scartch my back and after a minute i got a straight and bumpy rash with pink or red in colour, then I scratch my arm, and same result I got, but these rashes diapear after 15-20 minutes.I become worried, on 14 day of my expected exposure I got the result of HIV which I were given in NHS, that was negative, I went back to NHS on 15th days of my expected explosure and showed my Dr, my rashes she gave me anihestmine tablets for rash, and she toled me to come back for test after six weeks,I was so stress, I stop eating properly, and start thinking I am HIV positive now, all the time I had same thing in my mind. On 19 or 20th day of my expected explosure my shoulder and arms pore of hair get swelled, and my shoulders and both arms start burning, and get sore, but after 40 minutes to one hour they become back to normal, on day 22 and 24 twice my both hands become so red and start burning, it was looking like blood come in it, but they become back to normal about 20-30 minutes. On day 24 to 26 I start feeling pain in my shoulders, I was not able to lift Harvey thing, I was in extreme stree in this all perioud, I lost 3 Kg weight in 28 days. I went again NHS Gum clinic on 29th day and asked to do my HIV test again, and showed my rashes pictures to Dr., she said that is urticaria , I said I have other symptoms as well then she did my HIV test again on 29th day I get a negative result after a week. On day 30th day my cheast and neck start getting redish if I tuch it or itch it hard get more red and bumpy rash, I am now 5 weeks and three day from expected explosure, I went to my GP yesterday and showed my rashes he said the same thing that is urticaria, and he gave me antihistamine and some tube of medicine to take a bath with that, but I am still worried because my rashes are not itchy, if I tuch my skin so I get it, my skin become so soft, specially my arms, my cheast, and my neck, please guide me, I have rashes from nearly last 4 weeks, I had sore arms and hands for a little while, I had shoulders pain for about 3-4 days, my hand both side get so red and burned same time twice, I lost 3 kg weights, if these all symptoms are HIV symptoms and I have these from last 4 weeks, but my NHS GUM clinic 29 day test was negative (is they do not do 4th generation p-24 test), please guide what should I do next, when should and which test should I do, I am so stress, please help me.
I need your help, actually I live in London, one day on 22/12/11. I was so upset and I did a biggest mistake of my life, I had sex with sex worker, it was with condom, but before doing virginal sex and to put condom on my penis, she touched my penis with her *****, and then put condom on my penis, I was worried I went to NHS Gum clinic on 09 day of expected exposure and did HIV test. And same time gum clinic NHS ask me to take course for hepatitis, and give me an injuction for hepatitis, and tiled me to come back for second injuction after a week, after three days of injuction I was reading symptoms of HIV (11or12days) after sex suddenly I saw a small straight rash on my shoulder, I become so stress, and then I scartch my back and after a minute i got a straight and bumpy rash with pink or red in colour, then I scratch my arm, and same result I got, but these rashes diapear after 15-20 minutes.I become worried, on 14 day of my expected exposure I got the result of HIV which I were given in NHS, that was negative, I went back to NHS on 15th days of my expected explosure and showed my Dr, my rashes she gave me anihestmine tablets for rash, and she toled me to come back for test after six weeks,I was so stress, I stop eating properly, and start thinking I am HIV positive now, all the time I had same thing in my mind. On 19 or 20th day of my expected explosure my shoulder and arms pore of hair get swelled, and my shoulders and both arms start burning, and get sore, but after 40 minutes to one hour they become back to normal, on day 22 and 24 twice my both hands become so red and start burning, it was looking like blood come in it, but they become back to normal about 20-30 minutes. On day 24 to 26 I start feeling pain in my shoulders, I was not able to lift Harvey thing, I was in extreme stree in this all perioud, I lost 3 Kg weight in 28 days. I went again NHS Gum clinic on 29th day and asked to do my HIV test again, and showed my rashes pictures to Dr., she said that is urticaria , I said I have other symptoms as well then she did my HIV test again on 29th day I get a negative result after a week. On day 30th day my cheast and neck start getting redish if I tuch it or itch it hard get more red and bumpy rash, I am now 5 weeks and three day from expected explosure, I went to my GP yesterday and showed my rashes he said the same thing that is urticaria, and he gave me antihistamine and some tube of medicine to take a bath with that, but I am still worried because my rashes are not itchy, if I tuch my skin so I get it, my skin become so soft, specially my arms, my cheast, and my neck, please guide me, I have rashes from nearly last 4 weeks, I had sore arms and hands for a little while, I had shoulders pain for about 3-4 days, my hand both side get so red and burned same time twice, I lost 3 kg weights, if these all symptoms are HIV symptoms and I have these from last 4 weeks, but my NHS GUM clinic 29 day test was negative (is they do not do 4th generation p-24 test), please guide what should I do next, when should and which test should I do, I am so stress, please help me.
Teak, what is your opinion about these HIV infected people which have never shown positive on antibody tests?
PCR. You don't need it. Will someone with some testing knowledge tell this fella he is HIV-Negative?
I suppose the only way to put my mind into piece is to get tested directly for hiv (I am not sure what the test is called in english).
As I said, out of the scope of this forum. I, too, have had more long term "symtpoms" (of something or nothing) but not involving ARS symptoms. Look at all the thousands of people who have "ARS symptoms" post exposure (risk or no risk) who end up with negative tests. Happens all the time. If those tests were wrong, they wouldn't be using the tests!
Lets consider there were indeed 6 cases. And lets presume there had been 50,000,000 cases of HIV in the history of the infection. That's 1 in 8,333,333.
Lets consider there were indeed 6 cases. And lets presume there had been 50,000,000 cases of HIV in the history of the infection. That's 1 in 8,333,333.
You are right, the doctors have to rely on the tests because they talk to the general public. But if there are hiv infected people in the past which didnt have detectable antibodies (considering very very rare cases) then it is hard to believe it on 100%. I would like to know the circumstances under those people didnt show any antibodies and reasons for that.
Put it this way, do you think that if it were any more common, we (ie. the general public) wouldn't have heard about it? Doctors wouldn't use them. People like Dr Bob wouldn't say "no way, no how" (albeit with an 'extenuating circumstances' disclaimer) quite so often, would they?
Thanks for your replies. It is interesting and scary. Some people like me experience HIV symptoms and have various health problem and never tested positive on hiv antibody tests. I understand that testing technology improved a lot since then, but can we be sure? May be someone with hiv testing experience could answer that.
Questions like this are probably outside the scope of this forum. I am sure you have Googled it to find the answer, which has thrown up further doubts in your mind. Try asking the on the Doctors forum, or ask at The Body (although I doubt Dr Bob would answer as it is due to fuel fear in some). Searching through the archives of the latter throws up a couple of cases, but as I am in no way medically trained, I wouldn't be able to comment on them. The one documented case reported by the CDC was in 1995, but I believe the person in question had a positive p24 test (and may or may not have been in very late stage infection).
Again, look at the date. 1995. Times and testing have moved on.
Again, look at the date. 1995. Times and testing have moved on.
I heared, there are 6 people all over the world , they are HIV , but never detected antibody.
Good response Teak. :) You know what I meant. I will try to ask again:
Is it possible to be infected with HIV and have undetectable HIV antibodies regardless window period and constantly being tested negative on antibody tests?
Has this ever happened?
Is it possible to be infected with HIV and have undetectable HIV antibodies regardless window period and constantly being tested negative on antibody tests?
Has this ever happened?
Is it possible to have undetectable HIV antibodies regardless window period and constantly being tested negative on antibody tests? Has this ever happened? Thanks.
What do you think about a 5 week elisa? Is it a good mark? What are the odds that after a negative 5 week it changes to positive?
Regards,
Regards,
Hi Teak,
Have you heard during your years of experience, that someone would have undetectable antibodies? Apparently there have been documented cases.
Have you heard during your years of experience, that someone would have undetectable antibodies? Apparently there have been documented cases.
I would have to say to that statement something similar to my criteria regarding the famous Window Period.
Theoretically it is possible for a seroconversion beyond 6 weeks (and has also been documented) but the probability is so small that, using their words, stretches imagination. Field experience and researching has only shown a handful of people with hiv not having detectable antibodies before the 6 weeks period.
Neither Dr. Handsfield, Dr. Hook nor a lot others HIV specialists have seen a 6 weeks neg become pos.
But thouse were just my personal thoughts and this thread isn't about window period.
My point, as the paragraph states, the odds of that happening are as low as to be disregarded for good.
On the other hand... remember the official testing window period in the US, Australia and other industrialized countries remains at 3 months. And for sure, that already includes a safety factor to cover for everyone's condition.
Again... that's just my opinion.
Theoretically it is possible for a seroconversion beyond 6 weeks (and has also been documented) but the probability is so small that, using their words, stretches imagination. Field experience and researching has only shown a handful of people with hiv not having detectable antibodies before the 6 weeks period.
Neither Dr. Handsfield, Dr. Hook nor a lot others HIV specialists have seen a 6 weeks neg become pos.
But thouse were just my personal thoughts and this thread isn't about window period.
My point, as the paragraph states, the odds of that happening are as low as to be disregarded for good.
On the other hand... remember the official testing window period in the US, Australia and other industrialized countries remains at 3 months. And for sure, that already includes a safety factor to cover for everyone's condition.
Again... that's just my opinion.
http://www.sfaf.org/aids101/hiv_testing.html#window
Section: Accuracy of Antibody Tests
" If you are beyond the window period and were reported HIV negative by an ELISA, and you are not subsequently at risk for HIV, you should consider yourself HIV negative. You may have a great deal of anxiety about the remote chance that you may be infected, yet test HIV negative. Although this is technically possible, and has in fact been documented in several people, the probability is so small that it stretches the imagination. Think about the tens of millions of HIV tests that have been administered, and only a handful of people with HIV have not had detectable antibodies."
Section: Accuracy of Antibody Tests
" If you are beyond the window period and were reported HIV negative by an ELISA, and you are not subsequently at risk for HIV, you should consider yourself HIV negative. You may have a great deal of anxiety about the remote chance that you may be infected, yet test HIV negative. Although this is technically possible, and has in fact been documented in several people, the probability is so small that it stretches the imagination. Think about the tens of millions of HIV tests that have been administered, and only a handful of people with HIV have not had detectable antibodies."
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