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Unprotected Sex and Window Period
Hi,
Back in September '06, I engaged in unprotected anal (insertive on my part) with a man of unknown HIV status. He told me he was negative and I have no reason not to believe it.
I had a couple of antibody test, OralQuick tests, since then. The first 10 1/2 weeks out and the second 16 weeks out. Both came back negative. I've read a lot about the window period and 12 to 13 weeks seems to be the consistent message. However, the nurse who administered the test suggested I come back for a 6 month test and I just wanted to get some feedback from others.
Thanks, I'm not sure if different states have different rules but I live in Connecticut.
Back in September '06, I engaged in unprotected anal (insertive on my part) with a man of unknown HIV status. He told me he was negative and I have no reason not to believe it.
I had a couple of antibody test, OralQuick tests, since then. The first 10 1/2 weeks out and the second 16 weeks out. Both came back negative. I've read a lot about the window period and 12 to 13 weeks seems to be the consistent message. However, the nurse who administered the test suggested I come back for a 6 month test and I just wanted to get some feedback from others.
Thanks, I'm not sure if different states have different rules but I live in Connecticut.
I do agree with you dumbo.
And as rude and crass as I was to Teak (rapid rod), and as much as I do not like him (not that he cares, nor should he), he does provide valuable info. and is quite knowledgeable about the HIV disease. But, yes, I do agree it takes some courage to live with the disease and be confident to say what he did say about himself.
And as rude and crass as I was to Teak (rapid rod), and as much as I do not like him (not that he cares, nor should he), he does provide valuable info. and is quite knowledgeable about the HIV disease. But, yes, I do agree it takes some courage to live with the disease and be confident to say what he did say about himself.
As much as I don't like you and your scare tactics, you saying you are openly gay and have HIV takes some guts, especially when you give out your real name. This is the net and in person may be different but it shows courage.
Again there is no test that will test to zero. We have two viral loads test used for testing, one will test down to <400 and the other down to <50 those are the two cut offs for VL. If one should get < 400 the viral load is tested with the one that test to <50. No test can test down to zero. When you receive your VL test back it will say VL<50 Undectable. My VL is done every three months and that is one of the most important parts of the test I'm looking for. As long as the VL is staying undectable then my medication is working. What this person is meaning is that he has an undectable VL.
sorry guys, i only stated what i read,i dont want you guys to think im trying to contradict or give false info.
any ways here is the post, took me forever to find it .
At what point i nthe relationship should I tell them? (DISCLOSURE 2006)
Dec 14, 2006
My mom was in a tragic nurse accident and as a result I've had HIV ever since I was born. I'm 16 now and my viral load is zero, so I would have to say that I"m doing pretty well for myself. My concern right now is dating. Surprising as it may seem, I'm not really interested in going very far with a girlfriend. I plan on staying a virgin til i'm married, if I even have sex at all. What I'm concerned with is just keeping a relationship with a girlfriend. You know, the typical high school relationship. I was wondering at what point should I tell the other person? I would like to tell them before we start going out, just to get it out of the way, but if you tell it to the wrong person then the chances of getting them are zero. And if i wait until further on in the relationship then it would come across as one of those things that you should've told them to begin with. If I were older i could accept the answer that if they don't like you with the desiese then they just aren't worth it, but at this age (15 and 16) ignorance is kind expected. I think the main worry is kissing. I know that it can't be transferred through it, but its a real common myth that it can, and if i tell them that it can't it just makes me seem like i'm just saying that so they'll go out with me (which I am but still). Any advice? Gracias
-Mr. Bass Player
Response from Dr. Frascino
Hey there Mr. Bass Player,
"I think the main worry is kissing. I know that it can't be transferred through it, but it's a real common myth that it can . . . ." This myth is not only prevalent among uninformed teenagers, it's alarmingly common in adults who definitely should know better as well! Want to know how common? One recent study found 37% of Americans think (wrongly!) they can get HIV from kissing!!!! Equally, if not more amazing, 16% believe toilet seats can spread the virus!!!! This degree of ignorance is shocking, considering we are 25 years into the pandemic!
The decision of when to disclose is never an easy one for any of us "virally enhanced" folks. Personally speaking I'd suggest the sooner the better in most instances. If someone refuses to go out with you because of that, just remember they are rejecting the virus, not you! I'll reprint some posts from the archives below that deal with disclosure issues. I also have a more radical idea. Your mom is a nurse with HIV. Why not have her contact your school and establish some HIV/AIDS health education seminars?!? An even more radical idea is to have you join her. Broadcast your HIV status as part of an HIV/AIDS awareness program. This has been done in other parts of the country and, although scary at first, what many have found is that it's very empowering. In fact, it may make you a local hero with coverage in local newspapers, on TV shows, in magazines, etc. There is a real thirst (and need) for honest HIV/AIDS education in our schools, churches and community organizations. By coming forward with your story, you won't have to worry about when to disclose or how another person might respond. The information will already be out there and you may well find your bravery in confronting HIV/AIDS not only fills your dance card for dates, but that cheerleaders will be chasing you, a guy with courage and compassion, rather than the dumb jocks.
Good luck!
Dr. Bob
any ways here is the post, took me forever to find it .
At what point i nthe relationship should I tell them? (DISCLOSURE 2006)
Dec 14, 2006
My mom was in a tragic nurse accident and as a result I've had HIV ever since I was born. I'm 16 now and my viral load is zero, so I would have to say that I"m doing pretty well for myself. My concern right now is dating. Surprising as it may seem, I'm not really interested in going very far with a girlfriend. I plan on staying a virgin til i'm married, if I even have sex at all. What I'm concerned with is just keeping a relationship with a girlfriend. You know, the typical high school relationship. I was wondering at what point should I tell the other person? I would like to tell them before we start going out, just to get it out of the way, but if you tell it to the wrong person then the chances of getting them are zero. And if i wait until further on in the relationship then it would come across as one of those things that you should've told them to begin with. If I were older i could accept the answer that if they don't like you with the desiese then they just aren't worth it, but at this age (15 and 16) ignorance is kind expected. I think the main worry is kissing. I know that it can't be transferred through it, but its a real common myth that it can, and if i tell them that it can't it just makes me seem like i'm just saying that so they'll go out with me (which I am but still). Any advice? Gracias
-Mr. Bass Player
Response from Dr. Frascino
Hey there Mr. Bass Player,
"I think the main worry is kissing. I know that it can't be transferred through it, but it's a real common myth that it can . . . ." This myth is not only prevalent among uninformed teenagers, it's alarmingly common in adults who definitely should know better as well! Want to know how common? One recent study found 37% of Americans think (wrongly!) they can get HIV from kissing!!!! Equally, if not more amazing, 16% believe toilet seats can spread the virus!!!! This degree of ignorance is shocking, considering we are 25 years into the pandemic!
The decision of when to disclose is never an easy one for any of us "virally enhanced" folks. Personally speaking I'd suggest the sooner the better in most instances. If someone refuses to go out with you because of that, just remember they are rejecting the virus, not you! I'll reprint some posts from the archives below that deal with disclosure issues. I also have a more radical idea. Your mom is a nurse with HIV. Why not have her contact your school and establish some HIV/AIDS health education seminars?!? An even more radical idea is to have you join her. Broadcast your HIV status as part of an HIV/AIDS awareness program. This has been done in other parts of the country and, although scary at first, what many have found is that it's very empowering. In fact, it may make you a local hero with coverage in local newspapers, on TV shows, in magazines, etc. There is a real thirst (and need) for honest HIV/AIDS education in our schools, churches and community organizations. By coming forward with your story, you won't have to worry about when to disclose or how another person might respond. The information will already be out there and you may well find your bravery in confronting HIV/AIDS not only fills your dance card for dates, but that cheerleaders will be chasing you, a guy with courage and compassion, rather than the dumb jocks.
Good luck!
Dr. Bob
His viral load would have not be considered zero, it would be considered undectable. We have NO tests that can go to ZERO at this time for Viral Loads.
First to Teak:
" There are no tests reliable at 6 weeks with a conclusive result. "
Tests @ six weeks are HIGHLY reliable,....but yes...they are NOT considered definitive.
Considering most people turn +ve by 30 days, it is approximated that 95-97% turn +ve by 6 weeks.
To Tony:
You are somewhat misguided by your own post.
You state:
"i like to read about situations like ours even at the body, there i recently saw a post where a 16 yr old had hiv from mother since birth, his viral load was ZERO. yet he still had it [HIV]"
The person had low VIRAL LOADS. THat is not to say he did not have ANTIBODIES!!!
I think you are misinterpreting the understanding of viral load and antibodies. He would have tested +ve from an antibody test when he was a couple mos.- 12 mos. of age. NOT WHEN HE WAS 16!!!
" There are no tests reliable at 6 weeks with a conclusive result. "
Tests @ six weeks are HIGHLY reliable,....but yes...they are NOT considered definitive.
Considering most people turn +ve by 30 days, it is approximated that 95-97% turn +ve by 6 weeks.
To Tony:
You are somewhat misguided by your own post.
You state:
"i like to read about situations like ours even at the body, there i recently saw a post where a 16 yr old had hiv from mother since birth, his viral load was ZERO. yet he still had it [HIV]"
The person had low VIRAL LOADS. THat is not to say he did not have ANTIBODIES!!!
I think you are misinterpreting the understanding of viral load and antibodies. He would have tested +ve from an antibody test when he was a couple mos.- 12 mos. of age. NOT WHEN HE WAS 16!!!
Godblessus,
I don't think there's a person on here who doesn't sympathize with you. No one deserves to be raped. But having said that, this forum is not the place for you. You are undoubtedly negative. There is no question, no doubt, no way no how. I really think the best place for you is therapy because this awful event has had a massive psychological effect on you.
But I can say without fear of being contradicted that one thing you DON'T have to worry about is HIV. Because you're negative. And you will remain negative if you practice safe sex:)
I don't think there's a person on here who doesn't sympathize with you. No one deserves to be raped. But having said that, this forum is not the place for you. You are undoubtedly negative. There is no question, no doubt, no way no how. I really think the best place for you is therapy because this awful event has had a massive psychological effect on you.
But I can say without fear of being contradicted that one thing you DON'T have to worry about is HIV. Because you're negative. And you will remain negative if you practice safe sex:)
So, if i am getting it right, what you man to say is that MSM cases are advised to test out to 6 months keeping in view the stereotype (mentioned in a non confrontational way)of their riskier sexual life style and also the reason that they are more prone to have repetitive exposures while waiting within the window period.
what teak is saying is true, i like to read about situations like ours even at the body, there i recently saw a post where a 16 yr old had hiv from mother since birth, his viral load was ZERO. yet he still had it. i agree with antigen test isnt very reliable after 4 weeks,pcr test not the way to go to determine a new infection. but im still a grasshopper with much to learn about hiv, im ok most of the time then for a short period question my 3 & 4 1/2 mos test neg.
I've been openly gay for 31 years, have worked in the medical field 34 years. The only time testing was 6 month was in the old guidelines of the CDC. Today it is only 6 months for IV drug users, Chemo patients, patients that are on antirejection drugs and persons with an immune deficient disease. All others get their conclusive results at 3 months. There are no tests reliable at 6 weeks with a conclusive result. Even though PCR test can pick up early, they are NOT conclusive and they all have to be backed by an antibody test.
Thanks again.
I can tell you that I was in a monogamous relationship for 20 years and that this was my FIRST MSM experience which is why I've been very anxious.
Again to all, thanks.
I can tell you that I was in a monogamous relationship for 20 years and that this was my FIRST MSM experience which is why I've been very anxious.
Again to all, thanks.
I agree that 6 months is outdated. I should have clarified that many clinics that deal with MSM recommend testing through 6 months, like the Whitman-Walker Clinic in DC.
Of course, MSM with multiple partners ought to be tested routinely 1-4 times per year anyway (the most common recommendation I see is 6 months, which is reasonable considering that many of the MSM I know will often have many many partners - sometimes hundreds - in that timeframe). If hwoodma is an MSM engaging in unprotected anal sex with a non-monogamous partner of unknown serostatus, he is in one of the highest risk groups and he and his future partners would benefit from more frequent routine testing.
Of course, MSM with multiple partners ought to be tested routinely 1-4 times per year anyway (the most common recommendation I see is 6 months, which is reasonable considering that many of the MSM I know will often have many many partners - sometimes hundreds - in that timeframe). If hwoodma is an MSM engaging in unprotected anal sex with a non-monogamous partner of unknown serostatus, he is in one of the highest risk groups and he and his future partners would benefit from more frequent routine testing.
Your scenario is similar to mine. (back in April 06)
DR. HHH response was:
"a one-time risk is still potentially low. Most people would not lie if aske out directly about their HIV status. Since you tested negative at the 6 week mark, chances are you are not infected. I would suggest testing out to 3 months just to be home free".
A risk is a risk. Anyone that says anything different is foolish.
That's the same as saying..
"Homosexual people, you are exposed to the flu virus over here."
"Heterosexual people, you are exposed to the flu virus over there".
"The chances of homosexual people getting symptoms and anitbodies to the flu will take longer because you are gay". GET REAL!
However, since a 6 week anitbody test picks up 95-97% of anitbodies @ 6 weeks, your pretty solid in not being infected. Understandeably, you are homosexual, I would re-test @ 3 mos. to be ABSOLUTELY certain. SInce there are indeed higher rates of HIV in the gay community. What does that mean? It means that your 6 week test is as good as anybody's....yup...that's right....even heterosexuals.
6 weeks is sufficient for those WW's out there who freak out because they received oral sex, touched a woman's hiney, urinated in the same room as someone who has HIV, went to these "numerous" Asian/"massage" parlors, or whatever reason that is nearly incomprehensible of contracting HIV.
DR. HHH response was:
"a one-time risk is still potentially low. Most people would not lie if aske out directly about their HIV status. Since you tested negative at the 6 week mark, chances are you are not infected. I would suggest testing out to 3 months just to be home free".
A risk is a risk. Anyone that says anything different is foolish.
That's the same as saying..
"Homosexual people, you are exposed to the flu virus over here."
"Heterosexual people, you are exposed to the flu virus over there".
"The chances of homosexual people getting symptoms and anitbodies to the flu will take longer because you are gay". GET REAL!
However, since a 6 week anitbody test picks up 95-97% of anitbodies @ 6 weeks, your pretty solid in not being infected. Understandeably, you are homosexual, I would re-test @ 3 mos. to be ABSOLUTELY certain. SInce there are indeed higher rates of HIV in the gay community. What does that mean? It means that your 6 week test is as good as anybody's....yup...that's right....even heterosexuals.
6 weeks is sufficient for those WW's out there who freak out because they received oral sex, touched a woman's hiney, urinated in the same room as someone who has HIV, went to these "numerous" Asian/"massage" parlors, or whatever reason that is nearly incomprehensible of contracting HIV.
AT 16 WEEKS YOUR NEGATIVE, that is more than 3 mos. 1 at 10 wks ,16 wks - 2nd,you know that 6 mos is pretty outdated, but i understand strata's view,testing out to 6 mos due to higher risk. but if your infected whether hetero or msm, well your still infected. i would definitely test out through 6 mos, only for peace of mind in this case...
It doesn't matter what your risk was/is. 6 weeks will give a clear result.
If MSM, I would re-test @ 3 months because of the high-risk nature involved.
Strata,
6 months is outdated for the "norm".
Only persons who had known risks of HIV+ exposure, or needlestick injury, immune disorders need to test out to the 6 month-mark.
A risk is a risk...so 3 months is sufficient unless you have engaged in unprotected sex within the last 3 months.
If MSM, I would re-test @ 3 months because of the high-risk nature involved.
Strata,
6 months is outdated for the "norm".
Only persons who had known risks of HIV+ exposure, or needlestick injury, immune disorders need to test out to the 6 month-mark.
A risk is a risk...so 3 months is sufficient unless you have engaged in unprotected sex within the last 3 months.
You see, this is where I get confused. I understand that MSM and IV drug users are at a higher risk than others for HIV infection. But I don't see how that rationally changes the window period. I understand that you might need extra assurance. But consider these scenarios.
1. Negative male has unprotected vaginal sex with positive female. Male does not know female's serostatus. Male is at risk. Yet advice is to test to three months.
2. Negativel male has receptive anal sex with other negative male. Neither knows the serostatus of the other. Neither at risk. Yet advice is often to test out to six months?
I'm not trying to cause trouble. I just think it's a bit of a grey area. People with twelve week negatives - and especially 16 weeks - should be dancing jigs of joy, but the six month window period still exists, even though there is NO evidence to suggest it's practical.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is I think the window period argument can be skewed. Either everyone with reasonably healthy immune systems seroconvert within three months or they don't.
Sorry for hijaacking!
1. Negative male has unprotected vaginal sex with positive female. Male does not know female's serostatus. Male is at risk. Yet advice is to test to three months.
2. Negativel male has receptive anal sex with other negative male. Neither knows the serostatus of the other. Neither at risk. Yet advice is often to test out to six months?
I'm not trying to cause trouble. I just think it's a bit of a grey area. People with twelve week negatives - and especially 16 weeks - should be dancing jigs of joy, but the six month window period still exists, even though there is NO evidence to suggest it's practical.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is I think the window period argument can be skewed. Either everyone with reasonably healthy immune systems seroconvert within three months or they don't.
Sorry for hijaacking!
As a general rule, people in high risk groups like MSM are recommended to test out to 6 months post exposure. There are statistical reasons for this (Dr HHH has posted it several times, so I won't repeat it here at the moment).
Besides, MSM should have HIV tests 1-4 times per year, ESPECIALLY if engaging in unprotected anal sex.
Your tests do show reliably, however, that you do not have HIV from the exposure you indicate. If you continue to have unprotected anal sex, however...
Be well.
Besides, MSM should have HIV tests 1-4 times per year, ESPECIALLY if engaging in unprotected anal sex.
Your tests do show reliably, however, that you do not have HIV from the exposure you indicate. If you continue to have unprotected anal sex, however...
Be well.
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