it lays dormant read asap

[hivdormantlook]

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From: HymneANemesis  (Original Message) Sent: 8/12/2005 4:10 PM
In www.aras.ab.ca/mnm.html I found the following:


>>Mystery 3: HIV Destroys While Dormant


The average latency period for HIV is estimated at 8-16 years[21]. During this time HIV is supposedly dormant (in that no symptoms of the disease exist), yet somehow destroying the immune system of the infected person. Supposedly the virus emerges after years of dormancy and the person quickly gets sick and dies. A rough calculation shows that if a person was infected today with one HIV particle, and it, and all its offspring lived only a day, and produced only two others before dying, there would still be a billion HIV particles in a month. In two months the virus particles would occupy a liter (quart) bottle, and in three months hundreds of olympic size swimming pools.<>White blood cells (also called leukocytes or immune cells) are a component of blood. They help to defend the body against infectious disease and foreign materials as part of the immune system. There are normally between 4x10^9 and 11x10^9 white blood cells in a litre of healthy adult blood.<<

So, let us assume that this SINGLE ONE HIV virus that infects a person is not so dormant in the beggining. That is reasonable, as during the first 3 months, the body produces anti-bodies to viruses. I think that there should be a bit more viruses than just a single one, in order to induce the body to produce enough anti-bodies that are later checked by ELISA. Remmember, the sample must be diluted 400 times before applying ELISA - so, there are A LOT of anti-bodies.

So, let first take that this sinle one virus replicates in ONE DAY. During three months we will get:

2 to the power of 3 x 30 = 2^90 = 1.2 x 10^27

So, as the number of all blood cells is 10^10 (see above), then number of HIV would be 10^(27-10) = 10^17 times larger. HHmmmm. But, where are all these viruses ?

Then, I could conclude:

a) the replication rate is not 1 day, but slower. Or,
b) HIV is actually eliminated by anti-bodies during these 3 months. Or,
c) HIV is replicated just enough to be able to enter all (at the moment present) T-cells.

BUT !

If replication rate is not 1 day, but let take ONE MONTH, then we would have that during the 10 years of "latent" period, the number of HIV is:

2^(12x10) = 2^120 = 1,3 x 10^36

Huh ! That is even worse ! So, replication period is even longer.

Then, let assume that every T-cell is infected in dying person. Or, even better, let take into account EVERY BLOOD CELL (there are 10^10 of them). So, let take that there are just 10^11 of HIV viruses. We could reach this number by the following number of replications:

LOG(2) 10^10 = LOG 10^10 / LOG 2 = 10 / 0.3 = 33,3

So, during these 10 "latent" years, the replication period is 120 months / 33 = 3.6 months.

I can not believe that this virus is sssooo LAZY. Doubling its number once in more than 3 months !?! I think that rabbits are more efficient.


If HIV is not dormant, then we really have one very strange "balance" between continuous production and extinction of both T-cells and HIV. Perhaps we could make a model and put down some differential equations. Ingredients would be:

1. natural creation and annihilation rates for T-cells leading to natural equillibrium number of T-cells
2. creation (and, why not, annihilation) rates of HIV
3. current numbers of T-cells and HIV (never meassured)
4. additional annihilation rate of T-cells due to HIV
5. additional generation rate for T-cell, as the body's response
6. something more ... ?

Perhaps these equations would lead to nice stable points of nonzero T-cell count ? Or to some oscillatory behaviour ? Who knows ?

But, deffinitelly, HIV is a very strange virus, as all these parameters for HIV and T-cells balance SO WELL, that T-cell count is only slowly reduced over 10 years. Most of the time, HIV and T-cells are in almost PERFECT EQUILIBRIUM. QUITE STRANGE. Influenza would put you into bed within a day.

I have some more questions too:

a) Does HIV kills only T-cells or also cells producing T-cells ?

b) Can HIV survive outside T-cells ?

c) What do all these HIV viruses do after killing ALL present T-cells, if person is still alive ? Do they just freely swim through the blood, searching for survivors ? Do they gather in bone marrow to kill newcommers ? Or, do they die too (desintegrating into particles measured by viral load) ?

d) Can HIV be killed if it is outside T-cell ? In, other words, if it is dormant, is it only dormant INSIDE T-cells, or could be dormant also OUTSIDE T-cells ?

Let assume that HIV is dormant during 10 years. That it is dormant INSIDE T-cells. Then, during time, these infected (but not killed) T-cells also die in their natural way (could someone tell me what is the average lifetime of T-cells ?). Questions: Does HIV virus (that was dormant in the cell) also dies together with that cell ? Or is it just released into blood, to swimm and infect another new T-cell ? If it also dies together with the cell, they would eventually disappear. But, they do not ! How do they know that their present host cells are duying, in order to wake up, to wake up just a bit, to replicate just enough to infect some other new T-cells, and than to be dormant again ? HHhhmmm ...

Why HIV was firstly not dormant during the first three months prior to the test, then it becomes dormant, then it awakes again ?? Or, perhaps, it was dormant from the very beginning. But then, how could body produce enough anti-bodies reacting with just a few viruses ? Is it enough to inject just a few, or a single one ?

If it was active in the beggining, then went to sleap in the meantime, WHY it becomes so cruel once it wakes up, after 10 years ? Could HIV wake up to be active just for several days, and then go to sleap again ?

It's becoming borring. Now, I will listen to some music. MMmmmm, ... Joseph Martin Kraus: "Flute quintet" in D-major , much more refreshing !!!

[hivdormantlook]

Mike  no they are saying it lays dormant I called the hiv dr at john hopkins hosp they page him and I said what happen he said no it will show up it dont lay dormant he said mr robins if that was case nobody could be Blood donor or organ donor will be telling everybody  take testing out to ten years  . Mike I need to stop seaching on net happy holidays Mike save me egg nog okay LOL

[hivdormantlook]

Mike  no they are saying it lays dormant I called the hiv dr at john hopkins hosp they page him and I said what happen he said no it will show up it dont lay dormant he said mr robins if that was case nobody could be Blood donor or organ donor will be telling everybody  take testing out to ten years  . Mike I need to stop seaching on net happy holidays Mike save me egg nog okay LOL

[Teak]

That info is BS and it was posted by one of the forum Trolls.